Thoughts of a Dying Athiest

Im not religious, but thats the kind of attitude that usually results in a "was it worth it?" kind of situation. and the answer is no, being stubborn isnt really worth anything. it just makes people think that youre a stuck up son of a bitch.
 
well, youre only afraid if youre doing something wrong, right?

its the Fuck Guilt way of approaching religion. its humans way of justifying their actions to their gods without acknowledging their existence
 
Well then, where did everything else in the universe come from?

You can't make your argument, because there is no proof that God does not exist.

saying that the only place something exists is in the "minds of men" simply because there is no proof is called committing fallacy ad ignorantum (ignorantium)?
 
I think that the only reason your die is because you give into it, you always hear about these people who had certain illnesses but still survived, its because they had the will, and faith it something, wether it be god, our there cat they dont want to leave.

I also beleive that there cant be good without bad. Let's say someone dear to you dies, that's, for most people bad, there has to be a good thing somwhere, and if it doesnt happen right away, it going to happen later on.

in other words, karma.

on an other note,I also have no clue how the hell humans were created, all the hypothesis(sp?) are alittle to out there, god creted man, who created god? Or maybe the big bang theory, an organism created itself? and it is definatley not scientology, i can asure you that.

Which brings me to another subject, scientology. I hate Tom Cruise.
 
im not syaing escaping death, im saying surving longer or maybe surving, i knew strong willing people too, but they're will wasnt strong enough to over come there illness
 
Ok, I see where your coming from now. I think that a strong will can help sometimes, but even more important is how well someone is supported. Even still, some die and some dont, and we dont always know why.
 
I was only saying youre only afraid if youre doing something you know is wrong, either in your eyes, or the eyes of god.
 
right, when you and god dont see eye to eye.

but then again, wouldnt you know your god, since your not adopting a pre made one?

youd know when you betray your idea of god, and you know when you betray yourself. I dont know if theres really a difference though..
 
im an atheist ,i dont pretend to know what happens when you die though. i like thinking about all the possibilities that could happen when you die. maybe you get to relive your life knowing what you knew when you died. maybe you go to heaven. maybe you start over in another world like middle earth. maybe you come back as an animal. maybe i will to hell. who knows. seeing satan in person would be cool though, if he exists.
 
you sound a little too sure of yourself, stop. you don't know what happens afterwards, don't act like what you say is fact.
 
i would think nothing would happen after you died. you just stopped thinking. seems most logical. but then again what if christianity acually is the right religion. and then everyone else goes to hell
 
In Islam you can worship any religion and still go to heaven so I'm thinkin its all good as long as you do something
 
Ok so im going to put in my two cents in this one. Think about it this way. The laws of physics may have something, but nobody is sure yet. Well i was told ( may not be right) but that there is this stuff called anti-matter. When matter meets anti-matter they distroy each other. For all matter there is suppost to be a simillar amount of anti-matter. So the big question is, when everything was created, why do will still exsist? Those laws state that as soon as everything was created, we schould have encountered the anti-matter, and everything would stop happening. There would be nothingness. Why did this happen, why is everything still here......that maybe leading to something. I don't know if there is an after life or not, but i HOPE there is. Even if there is a hell, or something like that. Just not exsisting scares the living hell out of me. Just everything stops. Love, joy, happyness, sadness, pain, suffering, touch, taste, sound.......that is all just stops. That i would not be able to hold someone, or eat something or ski.......just nothing. No offence but that live for today stuff is cool for you guys, but i still want to have some sort of life, or something after that. Saying that there is nothing after, and all this living for today stuff is pretty shitty when you think about it. Its like getting ready for the biggest comp of your life. Its like skiing........we all love it....and we have an awsome time doing it....but imagine it was all done tomorrow. That tomorrow you would never ever ski ever again. Its exactly like that.
 
not sure where you were going there. There a lot of interesting things going on in theoretical physics if you are interested you should read "Hyper Space" by M. Kaku it will blow your mind.
 
for all you people saying that there is no proof of jesus christ, or god, or a higher being in general, thats why they call it faith, becuase people can take theyre whole life and transform it and make it so much better just by having faith in God. If youve led a good life according to the bible, you will go to heaven, if you love Jesus with all of your heart and soul and love your neighbor as yourself. Thats a lot to ask but if you think about it, (from a believers perspective) this life that we live right now, is sort of like a test, were living right now to make ourseleves stronger by beleivng in god, resisting temptaion just like Jesus did in the bible for 40 days when he went out int he forest and resisted temptation from satan, after he succeedd he was granted eternal life, think about it, eternal life, living forever in a perfecct world, and all you ahve to do is admit that there is a Christ and believe in him. Thats the whole point of faith, blind faith, putting your trust and hope into something that isnt tangible, its not weed, its not money, its not your girflriend, its putting your entire life into one thing, which is your faith in Christ.

Sin, is the seperation from us and God, when you sin(note the small s) that is when you do a wrong, it comes from archery, a sin is when you miss the target, so even if you miss by 1 mm, or 1 mile, its still sin, the same sin, however it might effect more or less people, or w.e. But when you have Sin, you cannot be in a relationship with God, so when Christ died for us, he was on the cross, when he was on the cross, he had the wieght of all the sins there ever was, and ever will be on his shoulders, he therfore could not be in a relationship with god, and before he dies, he says, "My God, my god why have you forsaken me" why have you abandoned me? He spent the last 6 hours, naile onto a wooden cross being humiliated, completley alone for the first time in his life, all for you and me, it sickens me to think that people can ignore this, the only perfect person that has ever been on earth, died for you, and you spit in his face and ignore it.

Christ died so that he could elminate the barrier between God and us, forgiveness, the ability to have a pure relationship with god. Take advantage of this gift he's given us, or atleast know it. Im not telling you to beleive in anything but im just saying that there is something to believe in, idk, just go through the bible, ready random chapters, whatever you want, but its chaged my life, and so many of my friends. Just think about it......
 
nah i was just saying, that maybe that is proof that we are here for a reason, that there is something more then what we know.
 
i think physics and religion are interesting. people often try to put the two at odds with each other, but I think it is more valuable to try and find how they are related. Is heaven made of atoms? How couldn't it be. There really isn't any science that we have that could even come close to answering that question, but it must exist. For that matter, the idea of heaven must exist for science to explain it. However, given that it does exist, then it must be able to be explained. Faith is a belief that someday the connection will be forged.
 
WOW WOW you fuck ups!!!!! HOW in the HEll can you not believe in some type of higher power? Open your eyes and see how complex this world is something had to create it. Speech, thinking, sense, taste, touch, feel and how complex our bodys are!!! Some higher power or a God had to create it!! If you don't think there is a higher power or a God you have not left your bathroom from masterbating all your life and havn't left your house or city!!! Open your fucking EYES people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't know so many people were blind and deaf and didn't have a penis!!!!!!!!!
 
I know what you mean. But there's many that have lived their whole lives without believing in any sort of religion. So how are they supposed to change before death?.
 
Why you should believe in God:

Believe+No Heaven= Nothing

Believe+Heaven= Salvation or whatever

Dont Believe+ No Heaven= Nothing

Dont Believe+ Heaven= Your Screwed

so if you believe you have nothing to loose
 
True. But we have no way of validating one religion more so than another (hence the term belief), so you cant really have an answer.
 
soooo... to you, Scientology and say, Christianity, have the same validity?

There are many, many ways of discussing the validity of one religion over another, because many religions are directly contradictory in their appraisals of what/who God is and isn't...

the debate won't be scientific most of the time, so i can see that it won't serve much purpose here...

You cannot exactly attempt to invalidate someone's religion in real life, let alone over the internet without coming across as... how you say... an intolerant bigot?

So maybe for some other time.
 
Haha, I'm not attempting to invalidate anyones religion or set of beliefs. All I'm saying is that because nothing can ever be proven (and I know that I'll get into a religious shitstorm with that statement, but oh well) about an afterlife or world beyond, we cannot validate or invalidate any set of beliefs.

True, Scientologists seem bat-shit insane to me, but thats my belief. I could be wrong, as I have no way of predicting or ever seeing the outcome. Likewise, maybe you only get into Heaven if you're Mormon (haha, Southpark, I love you). The only thing we can be sure of is that you cannot definitively ever answer or put validity/invalidity on any system of belief, due to the fact that a belief is just that - a belief. Believing needs no proof or evidence, and when hypothesizing about an afterlife that's solely based on that, you cannot be sure. You must leave the question unanswered.

I realize that by this statement, I neutralize all beliefs, however likely or crazy some of them are. By doing so, I'm saying that people that paint themselves red and run naked through the streets to appease the Cheese Deity have just as much chance as seeing an afterlife as people that live morally and lead good lives. But thats just what it is.

Nobody knows what, if anything, gets you this 'afterlife'. Maybe we're all right, maybe we're all wrong. Maybe Hindu's get reincarnated while the rest of us get demoted to bugs because we didn't believe it. Maybe prayers to the Cheese Diety give you everlasting life in the lands of Gouda. You simply cannot say one way or another.

So, what am I saying about belief? Heres what you can quote me on - believe what you want, because in the end, you're guess is as good as mine.

(And Patty, I just had an 8:30 biochem lecture, I'm really out of it - please be nice, I'm not sure that cheese stuff made sense...)
 
The thing is that, because of reasoning, all religions cannot be equally right at the same time. What's great about your statement is that it acknowledges this fact, instead of the regular "there is no such thing as religion" or " we can't know anything so who gives a shit?". At least you've realized the problem with such a belief system :P

trust me, it's very real to anyone who holds any faith.

However, the fact remains that all religions cannot be valid at the same time, because of their contradictions. Meaning that, in the end, someone is right, the others are wrong.

You will find many excruciating differences in religions that are seemingly equivalent that makes them deal breakers.

Thus, someone IS, in effect right.

Because certain religions claim certain things, then these claims must be verified, either through reasoning, or through science, or preferably both (reasoning being philosophical musing, not scientific method).

Now, it is obviously not part of anyone's time frame to try to meticulously compare all religions (atheism included) and find which is valid. This type of thing necessitates person to person, long range discussion... I'd get tired of it over the internet, it really isn'e efficient.

The point is, you CAN validate your beliefs above someone else's based on reasoning and evidence.

In the end, your guess may be as good as mine, but hopefully one of ours held the most water until we had to take the plunge into the realm of faith. If none of the options beat out any other, they were all worthless to begin with.

There is truth. We just have to prove it is so.
 
Interesting statement, I'll continue the trend of taking the last line and expanding on it.

Do we need to prove it? Well, you can go into "science, technology and reasoning must advance for the betterment of the human race!" and all that good stuff. But we have to realize that there will always be unanswerable questions in both science and reasoning that we will fill with belief. My question to you is - why do we need to fill in our gaps with belief?

It seems to me that humans do this because while being incredibly curious creatures, we dislike the answer of "I dont know". Its like our brains are wired so that that statement is unappealing. We have to know. But, do we really? I mean, if you want a definite answer to "What created our universe?" the only 100% answer you give is "We (as a species) do not know". We can believe its something/someone, but we cannot prove it (and probably never will be able to).

So thats it. There are unanswerable questions out there. Sure, we can hypothesize answers... but instead, lets just be more honest. Lets be truthful and learn to accept "?" as an answer choice.
 
Fact is, while that is an interesting statement... these "unanswerable questions" are THE questions that humans need answered.

These questions define how most of us live their lives, whether subconsciously or consciously.

This is not a realm where simple "eh, we don't know, so what?" mentality can apply.

We cannot live our lives without the answers to these question. Whether or not we ask ourselves if we are right is another matter, there is no human on this Earth who can live without an answer to these questions.

What drives a man insane is precisely the lack of meaning his life shows without any answer to these questions.
 
Ehhh, I dont know... why cant one find meaning out of the unknown? Why couldn't I somehow find a relevance to my life, knowing that there are questions out there that humans will never be able to answer? Maybe that should be a comfort instead of a fear for humanity - that there are some things that we as a species will probably never be able to figure out. I think that while "we dont know" is a weak answer, it can still function as well as any other answer someone could give me when it comes to defining my life.

And I'm not insane, am I? (Or comparatively, what should be considered insane? Do the insane perhaps know the true meaning of life and have the answer to the question?)
 
I know that you make decisions in your life with some certain measure of thought that they are relevant...

But if you have no answer to these questions, then whatever you do is irrelevant.

You do not live your life according to a "there are some things we just don't know", though you can think you do, or think that that is your answer.

In effect, you live your live with a semblance of relevance attached to some opinion you have about your life, whether you acknowledge it or not.

So it's fun to think that your answer is that we have none, but you cannot live your life like that. The people who realize the futility of their life according to their opinions, those are the ones you gotta watch out for.
 
wow.. u ppl really get into this stuff.well, i'm christian, so why am i reading this...

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I think this best cuts to the core of it. Apparently, there are two possible outcomes for this scenario:

1) There are no answers to some questions, and you, as an individual, matter very little in the grand scheme of things, eg, you have no real effect on your perceived life/reality.

2) There are answers to these questions, and you, as an individual, have relevancy in this universe.

As you can guess, I am a firm believer : ) in #1. However, that is a whole bundle of worms that is probably destined for another thread, something more metaphysical and philosophical. It should be noted here though, that it basically boils down to everyone having relevancy or everyone being irrelevant. Either you know there are answers to these questions, or you know that they are impossible to answer.

Aaahhh, ok, I've spent way to much time at work on this thread, I really need to actually get back and do some experiments. Been a fun discussion, thanks!
 
Have fun.

By the way, if there are no answers, then the grand scheme of things doesn't matter either. Nothing does. So don't bother with your school work :P
 
I don't believe in any kind of cosmic "purpose" or "meaning".

And yet, I enjoy being with my friends and family, and I find incredible beauty in other human beings and in nature. I enjoy doing so many things like skiing, driving, sailing, swimming, cycling, etc.

I enjoy these things because I'm a human being and I'm wired that way. That's all there is to it. We aren't born as blank slates, or computers- but we are born as humans.

This is all we know. We're human and certain things give us happiness. Certain things make us enjoy being here and prefer it to the concept of nonexistence (although that's something we can't actually imagine).

Does that not hold any meaning for you? That we can enjoy life whatever we happen to believe? Don't you see that we can find meaning right where we are without having to turn to religion (or science)?

Again, I don't believe there is any purpose to why we are here. There must be some "why", but finding it (if we ever get there) out will be as devoid of inherent meaning as the act of flipping over a rock and finding bugs underneath. Intellectually incredibly stimulating, yes, but it will not have on it some divine stamp of value.

However, I don't feel that this constitutes an outlook of "futility", and I will not go "insane" because I don't know "why" I am here. I'm here because of a long chain of causality, and I find incredible happiness in certain things, so those are the things I am going to use to give my life meaning. I live to enjoy life to the fullest, because whether it has your all-important divine purpose to it or not, it's all we have and to throw it away would be idiotic.

And no, I'm not promoting relativism. We as humans do have "morals" inherent to the way our brains function, but that's a discussion for another time.
 
just makes me think about dane cook's latest stand up vicious circle i think is what it's called and the joke about the atheist wanting to come back to earth as a tree, then getting cut down and made into paper that they print the bible on

sorry i cant tell it like dane can but its damn funny live
 
p.s. If anything makes our lives seem meaningless, it is the idea of fate. If I have no control over my life, and I exist only to fit into some god's "purpose", then I have no meaning whatsoever. None at all. The apparatus of meat and bone known as my body has meaning, yes, but not me. Not I.
 
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