This is pretty fucked up.

what the fuck is everyone arguing about? the point is that the man is sick in the head, even if the video is fake or not. it's disturbing and not funny at all. he is outta line, and something needs to be done about it. if i was on the scene while he was pulling that shit off and i was a soldier, i would have probably threatened to shoot him. unless it wasnt a real dog. even if it wasnt i woulda told him to quit fuckin around and that filming some shit like that really aint funny.
 
some one said that man is above nature therefore the guy has a right to throw a puppy off a cliff, i brought some sexy monkeys (apes) and who knows where to next.
 
how about FEDEX faggot. plenty of open positions, work your ass off. Make 40 to 80 thousand a year before taxes, depending on how good your route is. Kick yourself in the balls you fucking idiot. Anybody who says being a soldier was their only option is a sorry piece of shit. They want to be soldiers, so shut the fuck up. You can support a family of 3 on plenty of jobs that dont need college education. Construction? Landscaper? Plumber? Cable Guy?
 
" I dont actually buy into human evolution" ????

THEN SHUT THE FUCK UP! Dude your religious, good for you. But shut your fucking face. Your so wrong.

and culture exists in other animals. In Chimpanzees the skill of cracking nuts with rocks is passed down through generations. Young chimps learn how to do it by watching old chimps do it. Chimps in isolation will not learn it by themselves. This is a blatant fucking example of something called "CULTURAL TRANSMISSION"

In the wild, chimpanzee troops are often distinct from one another,

possessing collections of up to 20 traditions or customary behaviors

that altogether seem to form unique cultures.

Such practices include various forms of tool use, including hammers

and pestles; courtship rituals such as leaf-clipping, where leaves are

clipped noisily with the teeth; social behaviors such as overhead

hand-clasping during mutual grooming; and methods for eradicating

parasites by either stabbing or squashing them.

While observing chimpanzees, evolutionary psychologist Antoine

Spiteri at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland wanted to help

settle the question of whether or not the apes learned such practices

by watching others like humans do, as opposed to simply knowing how to

perform such behaviors innately.

chimptools.jpg


photo by Lewis Haughton

Spiteri and his colleagues investigated six groups of chimpanzees,

each with eight to 11 apes, living in captivity in Bastrop, Texas. The

researchers taught a lone chimpanzee from one group one technique for

obtaining food from a complex gadget, such as stabbing food with a

tool. They next taught one chimp from another group a different

technique for extracting food from the same gadget, such as pushing it

out down a ramp.

[…]

Over time, the researchers found each technique for tool use and

food extraction spread within each group. In essence, these groups

displayed their own unique culture and local traditions.

[…]

“The possibility that some primates may be able to learn from others

has great implications on how we treat them and how we think about

ourselves,” Spiteri told LiveScience. “These results indicate to us

that chimps have a capacity for cultural complexity, which was likely

shared by our common ancestor going back around 5 million years ago.”

 
^ you would be pretty goddamn lucky if a plumbing workplace picked you without any education on the trade whatsoever. at least where im from anyways. plumbing makes a fucking shitload of money too. those guys can charge like 300 an hour if they want to.
 
best option but they didnt have to choose it. BUT THEY DID CHOOSE IT DIDNT THEY.

AND SAYING THEY DIDNT SIGN UP TO FIGHT A WAR IS SUCH A FUCKING PUSSY THING TO SAY LIKE A FIREFIGHTER SAYS "OH I DIDNT SIGN UP TO FIGHT FIRES" wtf is wrong with you.
 
oh i get it.

you sit in church every sunday and jerk off your ego philosophizing about how amazing it is that you can philosophize.

Our brains our complex enough to give us the ability to reflect very deeply upon our own existence. But other animals have shown this ability to reflect on themselves, but obviously not as deeply as humans can reflect on themselves. Humans are by far the smartest animals on earth.

your like a modern supercomputer saying that the old primative computer is not a computer, to make yourself feel better. Your dead wrong.
 
lil g i cant imagine you being anything but an alias. so anyways. I hope thats fun for you. You act like your just laughing at as all when you post things to piss everybody off. You think that makes you cooler than the people who actually want to discuss things here, like your some sort of cool prankster. But the guy typing on lil g's account. Your prob not that cool. You think you are so fucking rad but your not. Your big egos foundation is going to end sooner or later and you are gonna have anxiety attacks around all your friends because of the fear that theyll find out how gay you really are.
 
are you serious? you have to be kidding.

of course they sign up willing to fight a war, but they dont sign up to fight one they support or dont support. as if they know what the cause for a war will be before it happens? your logic is so far off its outrageous.
 
and the firefighter says,

"oh ill sign up to be a firefighter but i only want to fight certain types of fires. If i have to fight fires I don't want to fight then Im gonna get stressed out and have to throw puppies off cliffs. But its ok because my deeply religious father named Almostaskier told me that humans are not part of evolution and that humans are the only thing with conciousness and philosophy so dogs dont actually have brains or feelings so its ok to throw them off cliffs for human pleasure because humans are the only thing that matters"

 
im done with this thread, now im just gonna sit back and watch what I have created by sparking the whole man over animal debate.
 
OK, so you agree with me that Nature and what it is has had a lot of human history attached to it. Throughout its teleological progression, it has come to mean different things, from something to be feared and appeased to property to where industry has not yet reached.

But the fact that human history has come to give us a sense of being separate in some way from Nature, the very existence of a debate about whether or not we simply are another chain in the evolutionary link puts the all encompassing nature of your natural system into shambles.

Because if the world developed along mere lines of cause and effect from the beginning of the universe in the Big Bang and continued down into the cause and effect system of evolutionary change through natural selection, then there is absolutely no room for inductive reasoning along lines outside of sheer causality. The fact that we have come to perceive a system at all, that of "Nature", implies reasoning beyond the scope of the natural train of events. The difference between causality and reasoning is thus: the difference between the passage of an ion across a membrane in your neuron creating your synaptic transmissions, and the realization that your argument must be valid beyond all scope of evolution (that you have come on to some "truth") is precisely the difference between humans and animals, and that gap is as vaste as a created being from its creator.

For if your logical arguments are to be valid, the concept of "must be" and "therefore" must actually represent such a condition where that truth cannot be improved upon, no matter how evolution will take your neuron behavior. If we are but mere animals within the system, then all of our cognitive function must fall into some sort of causality of evolution. Thus, our reasoning, far from actually being valid, is a product of the system of Nature, meaning that if Nature had taken any other differing course, the logical, valid conclusions, such as a = b, b = c, hence a = c, might no longer be so. If our logic is bound by the system of Nature, then our logic is not necessarily always valid, and thus it cannot be trusted.

But such a position is untenable, because to argue thusly is to argue against logic, which uses logic. So to claim, as you do, that we are at the core instinctual animals is to say that our best attribute is essentially arbitrary, yet we attach to it such notions of veracity that to argue that it is relative to a time and place you must argue against it using it.

Now, I can argue that we are transcendent of Nature the system since we have the notion of the system and mental capacity that speaks to some sort of inductive "truth" of the world, when the system otherwise would not have been given away lest you were somehow outside of it. That is the very argument I've made: because of the mere fact that you wish to argue logically with me that we are still all natural, we have gone beyond simple natural instinct and begun to discuss the reasoning behind it.

Now, it does not follow that I think us to be above morality because some would say they've gone beyond it, because morality is not equivalent to Nature in what it represents. Nature as you have it is everything natural, that which simply is. As a part of Nature in that we are of the same elements and live within it, our cognitive function in the act of reasoning transcends it. Morality likewise is transcendent of Nature in that it is reasoned into. I believe there is an absolute morality, and the act of reasoning into it would imply this fact as well.

I don't believe I ever claimed that we understand Nature, I have claimed that human understanding of Nature goes beyond what animals understand of it, in the very notion of what understanding is. Understanding in the way that I mean it involves reasoning, again. Not simply a = b, thus b = a too. No, it implies understanding WHY that would even be so. We reason. Animals can learn. There is a difference.

Then you go on to argue about the sexual nature of apes, and I never exactly brought that up. Where did you get the whole female orgasm thing and if it applied to what i've said?

Now, on to Yauch. First of all, I'd like to mention that your poor grammar makes the whole vicious insult thing funny. You're better off separating your language from that of the apes than quarreling with me on points that I have addressed and explained. See how I used "your" and "you're"?

Anyways. Yes, animals can learn. They can learn far better and more than we thought they could. Yet, they are learning. Not inventing out of pure essence new knowledge. Case in point: "Chimps in isolation will not learn it by themselves". Means them chimps ain't exactly as intuitively genius like we are eh? As I've said, I work at the Long Marine Lab, where they do sensory and cognitive research on pinnipeds and dolphins. What the animals achieve through our training is astounding. But they cannot learn inductively, only causally. Thats for the biology of it all.

Now the human bias. This sentence is key: "In essence, these groups

displayed their own unique culture and local traditions."

The naming of such behavior as cultural and traditional is a purely human connection. Do you hear speak of otter culinary culture when some will eat only abalone, others only urchins, and others a mix, all passed down from generation to generation? Or orca national traditions when they go and rub along the smooth pebbles of a fjord in norway, as opposed to others who rub on a reef in the pacific? We project our very essence onto those animals we have decided we are closest to and the semantic follow, even if the distinction being made between natural behavior and societal behavior is one that we as humans have invented through our very separateness from the Natural system.

But, if you'd like to think that you are closely related to apes and their societal behavior, perhaps I'd like to question your education and upbringing.

Now, B-Wald. If you are coming at me from an evolutionary standpoint, my "arrogance" as a human should make perfect sense, since apparently the pinnacle of evolution is right here with humanity. However, you seem to be appreciating a level of moral dilemma and dissatisfaction with the way the world works. That is where you and I agree. The very morality of human existence and consumption being in question shows the distinctive nature of humanity. No other animal will have ethical qualms like we do in their behavior. The very fact that you question how humans live today is exactly what I'm getting at. My "arrogance" as a human is derived from the fact that we are separate from nature on a reasoned ethical level, and thus I do not enjoy being equated with that which we are separate from.

Now, do I think humans are screwing up what they are supposed to be doing according to my religious beliefs. You bet. Do I think humans are fallen and that the world in which we live could be better? Yes indeed. Humans have a special place in nature, and that special place we've trashed. My argument the whole time has been for the special, not what we should be doing, and I agree with you we aren't doing it well.
 
I agree with you, BUT they didnt eat the dog, they chucked it off a cliff.

THEY PUNTED BAXTER!

seriously, thats fucked, but all i could think about watchin that fucked up video was anchorman....
 
you did a poor job walking through your argument to show this to be the case; if you did a good job, i'd have understood what you were saying and we could continue talking about whatever you're trying to say.

It sounded like you were saying something along the lines of evolution determines my thoughts completely and that logic is dependant on the function of my brain, this is not the case, therefore evolution is wrong, man is not a part of nature, and is somehting completely different.

First explain to me how man came to be, if it's god's creation, explain how god came to be.

also provide where you're drawing your philosophy, maybe that will help me understand what you're trying to say.

 
you know what almostaskier youre a fucking robot,

you dont believe in human evolution,

all you do is try to back up your biblical anthropocentric view that humans are the shit and all other animals were created to please humans

heres a question

What the fuck do the biologists at your marine lab say when you tell them that humans are not part of evolution?

 
I love how theirs all this arguing going on, and no one has mentioned that the video has been taken down. I saw the report on the news this morning. Its disgusting. they said the guy was from hawaii, and are doing an investigation into it. I say hes thrown off a cliff
 
looks fake as hell

these soldiers might have been in real combat, had to kill innocent women and children, had their friends killed, almost lost their life.

so that doesn't make it right.

but what I'm trying to see is that it fucked with their head, so I understand it.
 
blackwater employee (soldier in iraq) took a puppy by the scruff of the neck and hucked it off a cliff, then his friend came over and said it wasn't a very nice thing to do.
 
this fucking shithead should be eaten by all the animals in the what animal would you hate to be eaten by thread.
 
I highly enjoy reading this debate between members and shit. Some of it is pretty asinine, though.

And I guess really quickly: if you volunteer for the military, you better be willing to do what you are told to do. Its the name of the of the game. And considering many people have volunteered after this war began... no fucking excuse. Throwing a puppy off a cliff isn't really the best way to relieve anxiety or some bull shit...

Anywho, funny to see this get in to local news coverage (considering this guy is from a city about 15 miles away from here as the bird flies).

http://www.komotv.com/news/16237717.html

 
More coverage than I thought....

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004259088_thrownpup04.html

Video of Marine tossing puppy prompts threats to Monroe family

By Haley Edwards

Seattle Times staff reporter



A

Monroe family received threatening telephone calls this week after a

video apparently showing a Marine throwing a puppy over a cliff in Iraq

surfaced on the Internet.

Since it was first posted early this week, the video has become an

Internet sensation, gaining widespread attention from news sites,

bloggers and animal-rights activists. Hundreds of people have left

comments on various Web postings of the video. Some posters have

included the Snohomish County home address and telephone number of the

alleged puppy-thrower, as well as the names of his family members.

"We learned about the ... video and one of our deputies went to

check on the family," said Rebecca Hover, spokeswoman for the Snohomish

County Sheriff's Office. "They said they had received threatening phone

calls earlier."

The U.S. Marine Corps said it is investigating but would not confirm

the man's identity. In the video, a person off-camera uses the Marine's

last name.

The family's telephone number has since been disconnected, and a

woman at the home declined to speak with a reporter Monday night.

Social-networking Web pages, including those on MySpace and Facebook,

maintained by the Marine and his family members also have been taken

down.

The Sheriff's Office was not able to trace the threatening phone

calls, but deputies have been driving by the Monroe home to "keep an

eye on things," Hover said.

The homemade video shows a young Marine in uniform apparently

holding a black-and-white puppy by the scruff of its neck, addressing

the camera, and then throwing the puppy overhand into a desert ravine.

It sounds as if the animal is yelping as it falls.

"The video is shocking and deplorable and is contrary to the high

standards we expect of every Marine," the Marine Corps said in a news

release.

The Marines are currently investigating the video, said Linda

Yokoyama, an office assistant at the Kaneohe Bay Marine Base in Hawaii.

"It will take a bit of time. Considering we've only known about it

for 24 hours, we're moving as fast as we can," she said. "It's been a

nightmare. The video is just horrible. Horrible."

 
The only amusing thing I'm finding from this story is that the dudes from Monroe, WA.

If you've seen that town, you wouldnt be surprised.
 
Haha you're right Rowen, i'm not surprised.

Anyway, it crossed my mind that this story MIGHT get news coverage, but i'm surprised at how fast it got on the news!
 
you are absolutely right. they signed up to serve their fucking country. They have no right to say nope I dont agree with this war. fuck it.
 
that was fucked up but i dont mean to make it seem like it was alright but that dog was out in the desert.... probably with its mom who has who knows how many other pups to feed and it would probably be a stray when its older anyways
 
lil g your such a fuckin douchebag. If you call throwing a puppy off a cliff, recording it, and then laughing ur ass off about it "a lil bit of fun" then ur just as fucked up as the people in this video.

and to whoever said humans>dogs yea i agree but these ppl are a hell of a lot worse than dogs i'd rather throw them off a cliff then a dog...
 
thats more reason not to do it. that was a little helpless puppy, so we should protect it, not throw it off fucking cliffs.
 
haha cool lil_g is posting again i love laughing at this dumbfuck

the fish hold their breath under water thing was really great. how ignorant can u fucking get
 
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