The smartest Muslim I've ever heard about

skifree919

Active member
This article is on the longer side, but really is a breath of fresh air. If you care at all about Muslim culture, read it. It's sooo typical that clerics would react with violence to a woman who is trying to spread a message of understanding and non violence

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/11/international/middleeast/11sultan.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

For Muslim Who Says Violence Destroys Islam, Violent Threats

By JOHN M. BRODER

LOS ANGELES, March 10 — Three weeks ago, Dr. Wafa Sultan was a largely unknown Syrian-American psychiatrist living outside Los Angeles, nursing a deep anger and despair about her fellow Muslims.

Today, thanks to an unusually blunt and provocative interview on Al Jazeera television on Feb. 21, she is an international sensation, hailed as a fresh voice of reason by some, and by others as a heretic and infidel who deserves to die.

In the interview, which has been viewed on the Internet more than a million times and has reached the e-mail of hundreds of thousands around the world, Dr. Sultan bitterly criticized the Muslim clerics, holy warriors and political leaders who she believes have distorted the teachings of Muhammad and the Koran for 14 centuries.

She said the world's Muslims, whom she compares unfavorably with the Jews, have descended into a vortex of self-pity and violence.

Dr. Sultan said the world was not witnessing a clash of religions or cultures, but a battle between modernity and barbarism, a battle that the forces of violent, reactionary Islam are destined to lose.

In response, clerics throughout the Muslim world have condemned her, and her telephone answering machine has filled with dark threats. But Islamic reformers have praised her for saying out loud, in Arabic and on the most widely seen television network in the Arab world, what few Muslims dare to say even in private.

"I believe our people are hostages to our own beliefs and teachings," she said in an interview this week in her home in a Los Angeles suburb.

Dr. Sultan, who is 47, wears a prim sweater and skirt, with fleece-lined slippers and heavy stockings. Her eyes and hair are jet black and her modest manner belies her intense words: "Knowledge has released me from this backward thinking. Somebody has to help free the Muslim people from these wrong beliefs."

Perhaps her most provocative words on Al Jazeera were those comparing how the Jews and Muslims have reacted to adversity. Speaking of the Holocaust, she said, "The Jews have come from the tragedy and forced the world to respect them, with their knowledge, not with their terror; with their work, not with their crying and yelling."

She went on, "We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people."

She concluded, "Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them."

Her views caught the ear of the American Jewish Congress, which has invited her to speak in May at a conference in Israel. "We have been discussing with her the importance of her message and trying to devise the right venue for her to address Jewish leaders," said Neil B. Goldstein, executive director of the organization.

She is probably more welcome in Tel Aviv than she would be in Damascus. Shortly after the broadcast, clerics in Syria denounced her as an infidel. One said she had done Islam more damage than the Danish cartoons mocking the Prophet Muhammad, a wire service reported.

DR. SULTAN is "working on a book that — if it is published — it's going to turn the Islamic world upside down."

"I have reached the point that doesn't allow any U-turn. I have no choice. I am questioning every single teaching of our holy book."

The working title is, "The Escaped Prisoner: When God Is a Monster."

Dr. Sultan grew up in a large traditional Muslim family in Banias, Syria, a small city on the Mediterranean about a two-hour drive north of Beirut. Her father was a grain trader and a devout Muslim, and she followed the faith's strictures into adulthood.

But, she said, her life changed in 1979 when she was a medical student at the University of Aleppo, in northern Syria. At that time, the radical Muslim Brotherhood was using terrorism to try to undermine the government of President Hafez al-Assad. Gunmen of the Muslim Brotherhood burst into a classroom at the university and killed her professor as she watched, she said.

"They shot hundreds of bullets into him, shouting, 'God is great!' " she said. "At that point, I lost my trust in their god and began to question all our teachings. It was the turning point of my life, and it has led me to this present point. I had to leave. I had to look for another god."

She and her husband, who now goes by the Americanized name of David, laid plans to leave for the United States. Their visas finally came in 1989, and the Sultans and their two children (they have since had a third) settled in with friends in Cerritos, Calif., a prosperous bedroom community on the edge of Los Angeles County.

After a succession of jobs and struggles with language, Dr. Sultan has completed her American medical licensing, with the exception of a hospital residency program, which she hopes to do within a year. David operates an automotive-smog-check station. They bought a home in the Los Angeles area and put their children through local public schools. All are now American citizens.

BUT even as she settled into a comfortable middle-class American life, Dr. Sultan's anger burned within. She took to writing, first for herself, then for an Islamic reform Web site called Annaqed (The Critic), run by a Syrian expatriate in Phoenix.

An angry essay on that site by Dr. Sultan about the Muslim Brotherhood caught the attention of Al Jazeera, which invited her to debate an Algerian cleric on the air last July.

In the debate, she questioned the religious teachings that prompt young people to commit suicide in the name of God. "Why does a young Muslim man, in the prime of life, with a full life ahead, go and blow himself up?" she asked. "In our countries, religion is the sole source of education and is the only spring from which that terrorist drank until his thirst was quenched."

Her remarks set off debates around the globe and her name began appearing in Arabic newspapers and Web sites. But her fame grew exponentially when she appeared on Al Jazeera again on Feb. 21, an appearance that was translated and widely distributed by the Middle East Media Research Institute, known as Memri.

Memri said the clip of her February appearance had been viewed more than a million times.

"The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions or a clash of civilizations," Dr. Sultan said. "It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality."

She said she no longer practiced Islam. "I am a secular human being," she said.

The other guest on the program, identified as an Egyptian professor of religious studies, Dr. Ibrahim al-Khouli, asked, "Are you a heretic?" He then said there was no point in rebuking or debating her, because she had blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet Muhammad and the Koran.

Dr. Sultan said she took those words as a formal fatwa, a religious condemnation. Since then, she said, she has received numerous death threats on her answering machine and by e-mail.

One message said: "Oh, you are still alive? Wait and see." She received an e-mail message the other day, in Arabic, that said, "If someone were to kill you, it would be me."

Dr. Sultan said her mother, who still lives in Syria, is afraid to contact her directly, speaking only through a sister who lives in Qatar. She said she worried more about the safety of family members here and in Syria than she did for her own.

"I have no fear," she said. "I believe in my message. It is like a million-mile journey, and I believe I have walked the first and hardest 10 miles."

 
yea, I didn't really mean the title to be mean, I mean I could title a thread the smartest white person ive ever heard about, but thats not what this is about. Just read it
 
very smart, saying more precisely and accurately what most of the western world has been saying for a while
 
Malcolm X is the smartest muslim i have ever read about...we just read his autobiography...pretty tight shit especially when he was living in harlem
 
She went on, "We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people."

She concluded, "Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them."

word
 
What we have seen is Jews killing people that try to protest. Instead of suicide bombers into a resteraunt, they send American-Made Tomohawk cruise missles. She's totally right a Jew has never destroyed a church...It usually is a whole helicopter or plane crew that destroys it.

The Muslim people don't need to ask themselves what they can do for humankind. What they need to ask themselves would be is the violence worth it. I sure as hell can tell you it's not only the Muslims that are violent.
 
No, they are not saying convert to Christianity. I'm sure a bunch of hicks are saying that, but what most people in teh western world want is to stop all the unorganized violence that solves nothing. They want peaceful talks, but I know you are going to come back by saying that US isn't peaceful or something like that. But the truth is, nothing is being solved by the violence. Nothing is even being helped. Sure we all know about them now, and the majority of americans greatly dislike it.
 
What I'm going to say is not that the US acts with violence (in which we do), but what human nature is. You can never eliminate "violence". It is impossible. Everything on this earth that needs to eat meat is violent. I didn't mean literally convert to Christianity. What I meant was them basically saying what you believe in is wrong. I can't stand ignorance of that sort. Who is anyone to say what someone else believes in is wrong?
 
yeaa I see what you are saying now. But, what I KNOW would solve this problem is tolerance. People should not insist upon a common religion for everybody, thats just not right. The Islam religion insists that every single person be Muslim, and if not Jihad is necessary. That is ridiculous. Christianity shouldn't do it, Islam shouldn't do it, you get the point.
 
"Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them."

Only a tiny proportion of Muslims kill people, why shouldn't the rest of the religion be respected?

I agree with her that violence and suicide bombing isn't the answer to anything, but I don't think it is solely the suicide bombers religion that drives them violence. In the case of the palestinians, it's the position they have been put in by Israel. I'm not saying I agree with suicide bombing I just sympathise with their situation.

I don't think she's the smartest Muslim I've ever heard of, she's simply saying what a lot of people want to hear.

"The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions or a clash of civilizations," Dr. Sultan said. "It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality."

It is a clash between 2 eras, but the reason many muslim countries aren't developed as much as Western countries isn't because of Islam, but because of greed. Greed from people that control these nations, and greed from the western world, in desiring to stay rich above everyone, and everything else.
 
Yeah, for sure, tolerance is key. But the way this article seems to have been spun is that Islam is wrong. It's no more wrong than any other religion, Islam fundamentalism is wrong, the same as Christian fundamentalism, they're both totally mad! That's why religion and the state should always be separated.
 
So even if a tiny perecentage do the killing, does that make it acceptable? I have no problem respecting a religion as long as it doesnt jepordize basic civility. Lets not forget that Islam is linked to some of the most grevious civil rights violations in the world and the "who are we to judge them" argument just wont do.

You talk about greed. Okay sure, the West wants to stay on top, thats true. And we all enjoy a greater quality of life for wanting to stay on top. But please, simple economics says thas any nation regardless of how well they can produce a good, benifits from trade. The middle east has huge opertunity to better off then they ever have been. So why arnt they? Firstly because they're culture doesnt allow them to be. The oppression of women and the generally constrictive social system makes it difficult to culturally and economicaly. Secondly, people in power are corrupt individuals. As in Africa, much of our aid never makes it to the right people as evil dictatorial assholes are in power.

The only way i see to solve this problem is to leave the middle east. They only political sway they have over the west is in the form of oil. Reduction of our dependence on their primary export would reduce our dependence on stability in the middle east. If they want to be barbaric, let them be barbaric. If they want to blow themselves up in the name of Allah, then so be it, i respect your right to be religious fanatics. But for Gods Sake FUCK OFF.
 
alli can say is that most of this isnt religious as much as anger....i think its more of imperialist countries in their countries. i say that the us and britain and shit shouldve stayed away from the middleeast in the first place and right now get the fuck out of there. we are wasting our money in iraq. let them do their own thing and im sure violence will go down. but the islamic religion does not state to use jihad to convert everyone. what about the ottomans? christians and jews were allowed to live and prosper without being scared if they paid a small tax. meanwhiel at that time europe was expelling the jews and muslims were kicked out of spain.
 
Im really into what this chick is saying but really we need to look on the fact that in the past religion has always been involved in mass killings. Im a Catholic and even im not blind enough not to notice mass killings such as the Spanish Inqusition that only killed in the name of Christianity. Im sure every religion has had a period of time in which they were involved in mass killings, its just because most religions can't get along. Maybe this Muslim outcry is a bit more serious than some historical religious wars but im thinking its just a prolonged fase.
 
I didn't say killing anyone was acceptable, it's not; I just made the point that moderate muslims aren't to blame for suicide bombings, so why shouldn't their religion be respected?

I didn't blame the lack of development in Islamic countries solely on the western world, in fact I said "Greed from people that control these nations" before i mentioned the west. A lot of middle eastern countries could be very wealthy if wealth was distributed more evenly.

In my opinion, living your life according to a relgion isn't right, but I respect anyones right to do so. It's only when people take it too seriously or try and impose it on others that things go wrong. I'm as scared by fundamentalist Christians as I am by fundamentalist Muslims, because even though they're not bombing anyone, they have far more power.

Lowering dependence on oil is a very good idea, I wish it would happen sooner.
 
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