The Fallacy behind Line's Ski Team

Benbig97

Benbig97

Member
During work today I started to think about the good ole days of our sport (1998-2004). And in the array of countless thoughts and great memories, the Line ski team of the yonder years popped up. Do many of you guys remember the old Line ski team? I sure do and everyone knew they were a force to be reckoned with...Skogen Sprang, Eric Pollard, Mike Nick, Dash Longe, Mike Wilson, Pete Mitheofer, Kris Ostness and Jason Levinthal. This was a team that inspired many of us skiers and between them hold many distinguished awards and respect. For example, Skogen was the first skier to have a rail cover (Freeze 2000? or 99?), Mike Nick and Levintahl were first ones to win X Games medals in skiboarding, and much more. However, those days are gone and the new Line ski team consist of Eric Pollard, Ashley Battersby and couple of amatuer skiers. Clearly, in my opinion, a far less superior team compared to the one of the old.

Which brings me to the point of this topic. With really only one "experienced" skier (Pollard) on the team the development and the "ride" of Line skis is significantly reduced. No longer are there an array of experienced skiers who are developing the skis it is merely the brain child of one or two people that being Pollard and either Levinthal or Francis. For example, atleast one forth of the Line selection for next yr was developed by Pollard, that being the Prophet, Bacons and the Elizabeths. Although many of you readers may see nothing wrong with this, I find this to be a problem. With one person developing a ski the ski does not have a mutlitude of input placed into it. For example, the flex pattern is suited for that person's riding only but with an array of opinion from other "experienced" members of the team the flex will be altered to tailor what the team wants, what they think will work best for the consumer and is best suited for specific/different terrain. And this example can be used for more than just the flex it can be used for the edges, base, construction, core material, width, etc etc. Now the rebuttle may be that Line does have a team and they test the skis extensivly. True, however, in my opinion, they lack the riding experience nescesarry for the different aspects of freestyle/freeride skiing. As talented as they me be in the park, can they ski a really tecnical line in the backcountry? Can they ski crud? corns? cornices? Etc Etc. And so finally this is the fallacy behind Line's ski team...the lack of depth which results in skis devloped by one person (a narrowed minded ski if you will) and has no opinions incorporated in to the ski.

It is for these reasons that I was disappointed when Line Team was restructured. As brilliant as Jason is, I believe that getting rid of his team was a mistake. And for you readers who may bash me, I have ridden this years skis from Line and I was not impressed at all, however, I do love last yr's skis 04/05 they were fucking amazing. Also, I'm not a Line Ski hater, my first pair of skis were Line 5-0's and 99/00 WHITE 1260's and I have supported the company ever since.

I hope you enjoyed this editorial and by all means please share your opinion...just don't talk shit fully explain your opinion in coherent sentences and paragraphs! And Jason if you are reading this, by no means is this "hating" on your company just merely a thought...nothing but respect for a godfather in our sport.
 
You've ridden the 06's or the 07's? If you haven't skied the 07's yet, you can't say shit. If you did ski the 07's and didn't like them, what didn't you like? because they're probably the best array of skis I've ever ridden. They have skis for absolutely everything and they destroy everything.
 
i think line losing there team was one of the worst things to happen to that company whether it was them dropping them or losing them because they had to or whatever.
 
I think the decision to restructure the team was just one part of a new scheme Jason L. wants to try out. You'll also notice there were no Line print ads last season, and no Line booth at SIA- all Internet marketing for Line, and it seems to be working. Maintaining a full pro team can be very expensive, especially for a company of Line's size, and personally I think it was a strong move to focus on one or two main athletes, while snagging four of the best young up-and-comers to be ready to fill in the gaps. As far as ski construction goes, I think you have a point, but I also know that team riders are more marketing tools than they are product testers. I don't think Line's product will suffer as a result of fewer athletes on the team.
 
good opinion, i just have to say to everyone, dont worry, everythings gonna be A-OK, i'm talking team, product, overall line stoke. dont jump ship yet, the best is yet to come
 
What "fallacy" are you referring to, exactly? Affirming the consequent? No, that doesn't make sense... which is it?
 
By "fallacy" he means error, correct? I assume he is referring to the dismantling of lines team as being an error.

My old skogens, those were sick skiis.
 
All the same, I wish Line had a team that could compete in such events like the Orage Masters and all. It was cool that they had such a great product and so many good riders. While they still have a good product, it is kinda sad that they dont have as many pro's on their team winning comps and dominating the ski movies.
 
Line is a group that designs and sells skis, not athletes. Who cares who they have on their team?

I feel like companies and their teams should be less important than they are. If people are tsill buying line even without a sick team, I think that is much better for everyone involved.

I want to pay for quality, and Line just seems to be marketing more to people who already know, and dont need a team shoved in their faces to buy skis.

It is a good step/
 
i still don't understand why people spend the time to write these multiple paragraph long posts about shit they know nothing about. sure Line's team restructuring didn't seem like the great idea..but Pollard was not the only one developing skis. The number of local pro's and regional rippers they worked with continued to push the development of the skis. so next time you make lengthy posts about stuff you don't know about use your head and realize how much goes on behind the scenes that you don't know about.
 
The 2005-2006 were so bad that 2007s better be handmade. i think the point is that things need to change and next years line up seems to address some problems and that is sick but still lets not forget the 2005 invader,chronic,moship, and prophet line.
 
your first paragraph was the only one that really sparked some interest for me.

Line was fuckin elite. still is. but when your heard blurbs about a certain event and about the Line Team showing up, it was gonna be a sick show. those guys were the best. all diffrent styles, same coolness. god those guys rocked it all together.
 
I feel the same way there are many "ameutur" skiers like will wesson that definetly know what they are doing that put a LOT of input into line skis. Also there are sooo many skiers out there today that it is difficult to have a team that not only repersents the company but also suffitiently tests all the ski types for all the different terrain types. Living on the EAst coast I know I'm definetly not a valid judge of how a ski handles in deep powder or some crazy west coast line, but I think that in working with the company I can put some good input in and maybe even learn a thing or two about how skis actually work. There are so many good skiers out there that its tough to say you have a skier that is the best and can rip anything anytime anywhere and still give great advice about how skis should be changed. I know I cant do all that yet but maybe as I grow as a skier. with the help of K2 now, things should change. obviously there is going to be a change in the durability of the skis next season, besides that if you dont like the skis then personally I dont know what to tell you. maybe contact line with your concearns or if they are soo bad dont ski them. I dont know though, maybe you do an entirely different type of skiing then what line is trying to offer.
 
you're an idiot; they had a bad year, big deal. Companies bounce back and seeing that you haven't skied the 07's, you haven't noticed that their new skis are killer.
 
well... i rode the anthems all this year, and i really wouldnt change anything even if i could... but i dunno, i am inexperienced, i only ride park everyday like every kid who is gonna look at buying the anthems, i am sure more park kids want a ski that pollard tested in the BC all year that is sick when you 180 off a 40 foot cliff like that crazy guy does...
 
exactly, jlev has said a bunch of times that the future and design of line skis has always been focused in part on pro-athletes but mainly on the everyday local mt skier... i respect that. and if anybody wants a taste of some of past year's lines, it is probable that you'll find something similar in their new line up (ex: 05 pro series = 06 chronic wides)
 
i really do not think a skis development and construction should be based around a pro team. input and focus should be directed at the every day rider thats going to, in the end, be spending their hard earned dollars knowing that the ski is going to be exactly what they want. sure, line used to have a sweet ass team and they were well known be everyone...but the quality and quantity of their line-up is still the same, and from what i've been hearing a lot, has improved this season! i buy a ski for what it is, not who made it or who rides it...pollard definately does design a lot of the line for the company...but you can't say hes the only one doing everything, he obviously goes out and around to find new ideas from riders and designers alike...im excited to see this years new line, i can definately say im buying a pair of invaders and bacons this year, hands down
 
Even though I dig Lev's idea of taking the money back to the local skiers, and I guess its working cause Line has such a reputation that no one is going to overlook them even with their lack of advertising.

But honestly, watch Ready Fire Aim. The Line team shows up and steals the whole show. Sure, kids killed it in there(candide!) but when longe, sprang, wilson, etc rolled up, they threw down harder than anybody with really diverse style.

I mean Pollard is illmatic but the best part of their team of the past was the mad diversity in style and tricks. It seemed like everyone had something to bring to the table, and I haven't seen a team since that has rocked it all so hard. Although Dynastar is gettin there.
 
he JUST signed up with salomon last year. he used to slay it for line, i think until the first year the chronics came out.
 
too true, five years from now people wont be talking about how it use to be good back in 2000/2001, theyll be saying how good it was now. Its cause people have nothing better to do then complaine about dumb shit
 
line shouldnt have dropped everyone. at first i thought the new idea was cool but then they never even travelled around and created ads like they said they would. kinda lame but oh well
 
yea i agree...i think jason could not afford to support all these riders with all the money going into the reactor and not getting much in return. He was trying his best to keep his head above the water and ended up having to sell the company to K2 earlier this year as everyone would recall. I think in the next few years you will see more riders on the team becasue of more support from their parenting company K2. I dont agree with the creator of the threaed though saying that it is a fal sy or w.e....who cares who is on their team.They are going to make dope prducts either way. Pollard has just been with the company for many years and most likley owns a chunk of it. He is mearly either 1.investing into the company MORE to get MORE in return, or 2. trying to get into the company more and not be just a team rider. it doesnt really matter if their is only one persons insight going into the ski but lets face it,...do you really think for a second that pollard designed absolutly EVERYTHING about his skis? i thnk he did alot..but i dont think he did it all himself. w/e...they will make dope shit anyways and pollard just makes sick skis.
 
One of my reps wanted me to come on here and try to defend what we are doing and why but from what I'm reading, the majority of you guys get it. I'm psyched you aren't all just a bunch of wannabe's only buying the product that the guy on the podium is paid to rock. That guy is obviously the most expensive skier to sponsor, not necessarily the best money spent for a small company. We're in the business of developing skis, not just image. We've obviously made a decision to put more of our money into creating innovative product influenced by not only the top skiers but from people like you that are actually paying for for the product. Keep the suggestions coming and we'll continue to create and offer the largest variety of unique freestyle skis for the largest variety of riding styles and terrain. Thanks for the support,

J
 
you say that most of the skiers aren't skilled outside the park, but have you ever ridden with them? i know so many kids that ride park all day, but when they go outside they slay it even harder.
 
you have a point, but there is the other side of having a team.

maintaining a diverse group of very talented riders for a team is not only the standard, but important for rider input & product/company development, as well as for developing effective marketing and company image. and right or wrong, having a stacked team of sick riders sells skis, bottom line. selling lots of skis keeps companies in business and from having to sell their company to conglomerates...

there are ups and downs to this yes, but it is the way it is.
 
dude are you actually serious?? yes, having a team gets a bigger image of the product and name out to the public...but only through competitions and ads through magazines...line has two pro riders supporting and advertizing their product...along with, as said above, a well rounded out am team ready to step to the plate...are you saying that because line doesn't have a huge stacked pro team they aren't selling as much product as armada or 4frnt?? or that they aren't as well known?? man, the shit they put out, and they way they do it, is soooo well known now its rediculous...without a pro team!! SHIT!! teams, in my eyes, are ways for companies to get new kids into the sport...the "look mom, i wanna do that" scheme...line is for the kids who've already been through that phase and are looking for the best product so they can further progress their skills and good times
 
very well put... that is also why they were bought up by K2, is that not...

No funds = No team.

But I would like a larger team lineup.

I
 
kk...the story i heard about the "restructuring" of the team was this...

Line devoted too much time and money into the reactor binding, which still hasn't shown any progress...they couldn't afford to pay their riders what they told them they would...and i was told that the riders left the team, not that they were booted out...and now, because of the same issue, lack of funds, they've been bought by k2...but as far as i know, k2 and line are still going to be seperately manufacturing their skis and having their own names...but line will have more funds, i think? to put into development and possibly another team

either way, im still sticking with line because they definately make the most unique, progressive, and aesthetically pleasing products!!
 
ya I think that's the case. It's a shame because line is an amazing company. They have Pollard though, that's the most important part
 
Making skis has been and will always be driven by the business end of things. Riders have imput, but ultimatly a company builds skis that are CONSUMABLE. You're only kidding yourself if you think that 1 pro rider dictates the flex and feel of his/her ski. It takes a host of developers and enginers to make a ski...a ski for LOTS of people to ride.

At least in the case of snowboards, lots of 'pro' boards have the same graphics but totally different flexes, generally stiffer, for the more powerful pro rider.
 
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