The Burden of Being Republican

“*fixed* The crusades killed millions, and there are a lot of problems with religious conflicts. that is why religion should be outlawed.�

Two things. One, if you studied history at all you would know that the crusades were primarily a political and economic action. Religion was just the label they put on it. Two, outlawing religion would be oppressing others beliefs. It would cause more problems than it would solve.

****************************************

T-Money: wtf

T-Money: i think the icecream truck just hit a kid

T-Money: brbrb
 
its always been all about constantinople eh... that what them ottomans and them greeks will tell ya.

Mercy's eyes are blue

When she places them in front of you

Nothing holds a roman candle to

The solemn warmth you feel inside

 
you do realize I'm kidding right?

although I am not religious, I have beliefs. Not athiest either, very similar to basic religion.

-Pat Melvin

WBP|films

'Who's not 18 yet? What? LA LA LA LA LA LA! I can't hear you.' - Jay
 
Wow ignorance runs this thread. The bible is the word breathed of God. It was written how it should be, yes it is slightly different today as it doesn’t translate perfectly from Greek (new testament). If you had an active relationship with Him you would understand how that is possible and would live a life full of miracles.

The crusades however were not of God, rather of man. Just as the war in iraq, or WWII. They were actions of men, sometimes claiming to be doing the work of God. The crusades are NO WHERE prophesized about or appear in the scriptures. The bible and God teach love as a means to show the humility and grace of Christ to those who don’t know him.

Also it is vital to have God in government, although the school system seems to find it a good idea to stop teaching the philosophy of Natural Rights (aka Higher Law). Read up on it and you’ll understand why it’s vital to keep God in government. It’s a matter of accountability, but you can believe that people are created good… let me know how that works out.

 
i thought you were serious. it seemed pretty much in line with the rest of the sterotype i had concocted of you in my brain... it also usually helps to say something like,'just kidding' or 'just playin bro brah' or 'your mom' you know, so we dont make that mistake in the future.

Mercy's eyes are blue

When she places them in front of you

Nothing holds a roman candle to

The solemn warmth you feel inside

 
I'm sorry, you present us with mere speculation, then call people ignorant? Come on, now. I mean,

'' It was written how it should be, yes it is slightly different today as it doesn’t translate perfectly from Greek (new testament).''

Very true. Good point.

''...If you had an active relationship with Him you would understand how that is possible and would live a life full of miracles.''

What a cop-out. Have you ever provided any basis, any reason for people to believe as you do? Because you seem to say 'I'm enlightened, you aren't, if you were like me your life would be better, I pity you for your inferior lifestyle.' Preachy much? That's arrogance the likes of which I couldn't begin to aspire to.

'' Read up on it and you’ll understand why it’s vital to keep God in government.''

Oh, good argument. We're reeling in the crushing grip of your rationale. Seriously, extremism does no cause the least bit of good (to wit, B-wald, the abolition of religion falls into this category as well).

------------

In a haze

A stormy haze

I’ll be around

I’ll be loving you

Always

Always

Here I am

And I’ll take my time

Here I am

And I’ll wait in line

Always

Always...
 
yes, I was kidding...

but prins, I must bring up some things here. you're views (although you may think so) are not what a lot of other people see. Is it fair for you to force your beliefs on them through government or other places? I think religion as a whole is a great things, the ideas behind it and the lessons it teaches are what you should strive for. However, to say that it is right, whne millions of others believe in a different way, is not right.

-Pat Melvin

WBP|films

'Who's not 18 yet? What? LA LA LA LA LA LA! I can't hear you.' - Jay
 
Basis for my faith in Christ. Ok, aside from my testimony... prophesy, answered prayer, casting demons out of people... I mean what else do you want me to say. When you’ve experienced all of that and done all of that it makes it pretty hard not to praise Christ as the Lord over all creation. Again, if you were to put your trust and Faith into God there would be nothing keeping you from the promises that are in his word. You stand on the outside looking in claiming it to be something you’ve never experienced. God promises the fruit of the spirit to whoever calls His name and follows after Him.

 
It you are talking to me Melvs, than my post was a misfire and I apologize. I should have given you more credit then I did.

****************************************

T-Money: wtf

T-Money: i think the icecream truck just hit a kid

T-Money: brbrb
 
I'm not attacking your faith prins. I respect you very much for having it. What I'm saying is, even though I share some of your beliefs, I know it is wrong to try and say it is the only way. For a god who loves all people, the diversity of the world and the diversity of religion should be respected. What you believe is what you believe, but do not try to force those beliefs on others who believe differently.

-Pat Melvin

WBP|films

'Who's not 18 yet? What? LA LA LA LA LA LA! I can't hear you.' - Jay
 
Everybody has their own beliefs. They should be respected. But they should not force them upon others. And they must not be oppressed because of them. That is ethics.

****************************************

T-Money: wtf

T-Money: i think the icecream truck just hit a kid

T-Money: brbrb
 
exactly. It's hard for devote christains (and hardcore members of other religions) to see that there are many other belief systems out there, and that each must be given it's own respect and allowed to prosper. If you are to try and say one is more right then the other, then you are doing the complete opposite of what His message truly is. Love all people.

-Pat Melvin

WBP|films

'Who's not 18 yet? What? LA LA LA LA LA LA! I can't hear you.' - Jay
 
^Not exactly. Some popular moral theories contend that it would be right to force one's beliefs on others if it would create a 'better' (a judggment subject to a discussion of value theory) world. So ethics can allow for this world to exist. I would submit that I've yet to see an ethical theory that supports this sort of thing and manages to remain consistent, but that doesn't stop people from subscribing to them (most of the people on this site do, in fact, without realizing it).

------------

In a haze

A stormy haze

I’ll be around

I’ll be loving you

Always

Always

Here I am

And I’ll take my time

Here I am

And I’ll wait in line

Always

Always...
 
^That was for quinny.

------------

In a haze

A stormy haze

I’ll be around

I’ll be loving you

Always

Always

Here I am

And I’ll take my time

Here I am

And I’ll wait in line

Always

Always...
 
exactly J.D., Even by you condoning my actions aren't you promotion your own agenda so as to be hypocritical all in one short post? After all if what you believe in doesn't inspire enough passion for it that you wish everyone else the chance to hear it, why do you still believe something so hollow...

 
You are correct JD. That is why some religious have missions in with they try to convert people to their own faith. It is not because they believe the other religions are evil. It is because they are striving to share the moral and ethical uplifting that their own faith has brought them. They want other people to discover the great things that a particular belief has to offer.

****************************************

T-Money: wtf

T-Money: i think the icecream truck just hit a kid

T-Money: brbrb
 
prins, I can see what you're getting at. If I could share just a few of the experiences I've had with you, I think you'd see that I am where you are, just not as devote, or part of an organized religion. I guess I am being hypocritical by saying you can't try to share the greatness you have seen with others. It's just that I see how millions of people are happy with other religions, I don't understand how one can be better then another.

NO, I am not 'religious' per say, I have strong (and quite unique) beliefs of my own. I just don't see how it is right for one person to try and tell someone else how to think.

-Pat Melvin

WBP|films

'Who's not 18 yet? What? LA LA LA LA LA LA! I can't hear you.' - Jay
 
it's not because of the theory of life that I do evangelism and mission work, It's to introduce others to the kingdom of Christ and the living God. the rest may or may not come along with that.

 
'' if what you believe in doesn't inspire enough passion for it that you wish everyone else the chance to hear it, why do you still believe something so hollow...''

It isn't hollow if I'm going to base my life on it, is it? Personally, I consider my life at least somewhat important. However, I also place a rgeat deal of importance in the concept of self-determination; that others, educated with regard to the alternatives, should be able to determine what is right. I'll propose what I think, but I won't look down on others for not according with it. That would be ridiculous; a personal philosophy is inherently subjective. Some things can be dictated through logic, and those, I would contend, can be argued for. Others can't, and should remain up to the individual. In either case, though, personal choice is universally available. I can't fault someone for choosing to be illogical when they realize they are so, if they prefer it, so long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

------------

In a haze

A stormy haze

I’ll be around

I’ll be loving you

Always

Always

Here I am

And I’ll take my time

Here I am

And I’ll wait in line

Always

Always...
 
what of the people who've heard a mixed story of your beliefs? I spent my summer in France doing mission work with people whose only knowledge of Christianity was that they 'caused' the crusades and were a reason for the french revolution. Should I not go to them to talk to them and show them what it really means? Would it not be my duty to live out my faith for the sake of others? From what you said it seems as thought it would be.

 
^Goes back to what I just said

****************************************

T-Money: wtf

T-Money: i think the icecream truck just hit a kid

T-Money: brbrb
 
As I said, prins, educated as to the alternatives. I wouldn't fault you for giving them a correct understandig of what Christian faith entails. Implying that all other options are inherently inferior, or even that yours is better than one specifically, is another story altogether.

------------

In a haze

A stormy haze

I’ll be around

I’ll be loving you

Always

Always

Here I am

And I’ll take my time

Here I am

And I’ll wait in line

Always

Always...
 
Extremely valid point JD.

****************************************

T-Money: wtf

T-Money: i think the icecream truck just hit a kid

T-Money: brbrb
 
so you're saying that if you were to go and explain your beliefs to someone you wouldn't antisipate them to believe them as well? What faith do you have in what you believe then? Seems like a cop out to say that what you believe ONLY works for you... Shouldn't it work for anyone who you're able to explain it to?

 
Not necessarily Prins. Different People will react in different ways.

****************************************

T-Money: wtf

T-Money: i think the icecream truck just hit a kid

T-Money: brbrb
 
The point is, regardless of whether or not it works for them, they have the right to choose whether or not to accept it. It might be an objective fact that a certain person would be better served to buy a sedan than a pickup, but if the person wants a pickup anyways, who are we to force him either way? Lay out the benefits of each, and let them decide for themselves. I realize that buying a car is a rather crude metaphor for spiritual decisions, but the point is simply that there is no acceptable spiritual reason for a preclusion of peoples' right to choose. Whether or not Quinny is right (different strokes for different folks) forms the basis of an entirely different debate.

------------

In a haze

A stormy haze

I’ll be around

I’ll be loving you

Always

Always

Here I am

And I’ll take my time

Here I am

And I’ll wait in line

Always

Always...
 
Well it really would be “different strokes for different folks� wouldn’t it? To an extent anyway. Because others may also may be trying to convert/share their beliefs as well. Or they could hold a more neutral take (by neutral I mean not affiliated with any particular belief system or have strong feelings). A persons reaction to something like a religious missionaries could be completely different than anothers reaction. The person could be convinced and join the new belief, they could tolerate it but not accept it, they could ignore it, or they could even act out against this new belief if they see fit. It is dictated by and individuals own beliefs. It really runs in a circle. Most people have core beliefs that can never be chained (ethics) and they have beliefs that can be chained or modified (morals). Of course beliefs are greatly effected by a person’s environment.

****************************************

T-Money: wtf

T-Money: i think the icecream truck just hit a kid

T-Money: brbrb
 
people who are to blinded in their ways to not see that different people hold different values at different levels for good reasons make me sick.

-Pat Melvin

WBP|films

'Who's not 18 yet? What? LA LA LA LA LA LA! I can't hear you.' - Jay
 
I mean this as a general thing.. not attacking any one in particulatr.

-Pat Melvin

WBP|films

'Who's not 18 yet? What? LA LA LA LA LA LA! I can't hear you.' - Jay
 
Yes. That is a noble statement. But that can sometimes spawn from things that are beyond an individuals control. For example lack of information. People have been nitrous for prejudging something without having full knowledge. Look at anti-American sediment in the Middle East. Look at some of the kids at argue in this forum. Sometimes people can’t help it because they don’t know any better.

****************************************

T-Money: wtf

T-Money: i think the icecream truck just hit a kid

T-Money: brbrb
 
yall are just askin to get sizurved by bigJ

NINTHWARD-ITS A SKI COMPANY, BITCH!

WORLD FREERIDE CAMP SESSION 3 BIOTCHES

I respected the guy until skibrdginbitch was telling me how she 'dated' him for her two weeks at camp. Hahaha god, I dont know whether to feel worse about skibrdginbtch being an idiot, or TJ and his new batch of STD's- dspin7x
 
By 'the basis of adifferent debate', I meant to say that it is arguable (and not weakly) that there are some principles which are objectively right for all of mankind. I just don't want to get into that at the moment, because it's getting kinda late and I have class early tomorrow.

------------

In a haze

A stormy haze

I’ll be around

I’ll be loving you

Always

Always

Here I am

And I’ll take my time

Here I am

And I’ll wait in line

Always

Always...
 
^how so?

****************************************

T-Money: wtf

T-Money: i think the icecream truck just hit a kid

T-Money: brbrb
 
That was for atlanta.

****************************************

T-Money: wtf

T-Money: i think the icecream truck just hit a kid

T-Money: brbrb
 
interesting points but I'm to tired to keep this up (and to be frank don't really care that much, I already made my points and know the truth to them). May God bless you tomorrow! (or is it today, eh you get the point)

 
Yeah, I’m tired myself. I believe I’ll call it a night.

****************************************

T-Money: wtf

T-Money: i think the icecream truck just hit a kid

T-Money: brbrb
 
i must aplaud this debate....i read so many fuckin psots....that was very very interesting. keep threads like this going (not necessarily religion, but just smooth tlaking debates with valid points). not one cheap shot was said, except atlantaski's lame comment to greater his chance of sucking bigj's dick.

i really enjoyed reading and thank you for enlightening me.

[ Slug (Atmosphere) - Reflections ]

You look like you were built for me; You talk like you want to steal my drink

You kiss like you already came; And that's a lift to pull a line for those with out any game

It's like damn baby; You know you can't save me

But you should still tell your people that your leaving with the band; Maybe you can show me your hustle

Neither one of us would be so lonely; If only you would come over here and hold me

I caught you trying to hide your smile behind your glass; But all of your secrets become a swing set when you laugh

And all of your regrets that you're carrying a burying; Don't mean a damn thing if there's nobody to share them with

We've been following each other all night now; We ought to be all over each other like right now

I don't like crowds lets take flight now; Cause that face that you make reminds me of my life now.

reppin' 720.30.3970 playa
 
It's too bad they couldn't see the discussion we were having over PM. I might post it later, actually.

------------

In a haze

A stormy haze

I’ll be around

I’ll be loving you

Always

Always

Here I am

And I’ll take my time

Here I am

And I’ll wait in line

Always

Always...
 
J.D. go for it, the only reason I sent you a PM was to avoid cloging up this thread with that long essay on Natural Rights Philosophy. Thought it would distract people from commenting on the thread.

 
I would have read it.

****************************************

T-Money: wtf

T-Money: i think the icecream truck just hit a kid

T-Money: brbrb
 
see, what many people want to believe about God is that his main characteristic is his love. prins, you prob. know this- how do the angels sitting around God's throne praise him? 'love, love, love.' right? NO 'HOLY, HOLY, HOLY!!!' his main characteristic is his holiess. meaning, that he can not be with anything that detracts from his holiness. thats why i believe you MUST be saved to get to heaven. 'what hath righteoussness to do with wickedness', if your sins arent cleansed and removed, the how can you spend an eternity with God?

'i am THE way THE truth, and THE light. NO man cometh unto the father (God), BUT BY me.

^jd, youre educated. what does the word 'THE' mean? it's exclusive. its the opposite way of 'A(N)', which is inclusive, showing that there is only 1 way. through Jesus.

______________________________________

'Really, I gotta say that I'm glad you exist, 'cause if there wasn't there'd be noone to make fun of and diss.'

Solider in the NS ARMY

Rollers of NS unite!!!

603 for life

I'm conservative, just so you all know.

Member Number: 5172

 
B-wald, good points. Natural Rights Philosophy doesn’t state that you need to be a Christian to be in government. It’s simply a way for people to be held accountable. Who cares if they are accountable to us (look to Enron and the like, they were responsible to their shareholders and look what they did!). The fact is that by having God in government you have one more step of protection for the people whom the elected officials are serving.

Little order of authority, from the bottom up.

Us as citizens -> local laws -> local judicial system -> local elected officials -> county court system -> state laws -> state judiciary -> state elected officials -> national laws -> national officials -> national judiciary -> God

While the points in each section (ie. local, state, national) can be rearranged to balance the checks set up in the structure of our government it’s all set up to have God at the end. So that the law makers are accountable to the elected officials who are responsible to the judges who are responsible to keep God’s creation moving forward. We hold the least amount of authority in our gov’t, it’s simply deciding who has the most. When you remove God from our gov’t you are giving it to the hands of men who (in time) will become corrupt. Look at every great society from Egypt, Rome, France, China, Japan… They had a person as the absolute authority in their government and they failed. It’s really an interesting topic to study. This is a very short and abbreviated version of it so don’t get flustered if I didn’t mention everything

How about people being created innately good? I do believe that there is good inside everyone. Rather I am rational enough to know that little kids will always hit and hurt their siblings, that without laws there would be chaos, that everyone has urges to do evil things (hurt others, kill others, gossip/fabricate about others). If we were created as Good People then we wouldn’t know bad things until much later in life when they were introduced to us.

What of native American tribes who had no contact with western civilization yet were still at war with one another? I see no logical way you can believe people to be innately good aside from a blind faith in what you desire to be true.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top