Switching from the al dente, kartel or allplay

[roddy116]

From what i can gather they are pretty much the same, and i cant decide which one i should switch to.

Al dentes just arent lasting long and they deteriorate too fast for me.

also if you guys have a different recommendation tell me.

 

[RudyGarmisch]

Describe your skiing style and what you like and dislike about the Al Dentes for a start.

 

[roddy116]

Park rat, slow spins and surface swaps, but i ski at big sky so im riding half park half trees/ whatever during a park day.

and al dentes im kind of tired of how there not too great in terms of durability my last two pairs started cracking within the first month, my armada ar7's still have life in them and i got them in 2102-2013 when i still skied in the midwest and probably twice as many days.

Also i dont feel super safe landing switch on them, just something about it i keep feel like im getting thrown forward.

also if it helps, 6ft 1, 240 but im losing weight pretty quick.

 

[J_skis]

Park rat, slow spins and surface swaps, but i ski at big sky so im riding half park half trees/ whatever during a park day.

and al dentes im kind of tired of how there not too great in terms of durability my last two pairs started cracking within the first month, my armada ar7's still have life in them and i got them in 2102-2013 when i still skied in the midwest and probably twice as many days.

Also i dont feel super safe landing switch on them, just something about it i keep feel like im getting thrown forward.

also if it helps, 6ft 1, 240 but im losing weight pretty quick.

Great to hear you are considering the Allplay, I am confident it would bring you the buttery playful feel you enjoyed in your Al Dente while having improved durability. Our use of carbon fiber stringers keeps the skis flex pattern from wearing down, while simultaneously increasing stability at speed. Our 2.2X2.5mm thickness edges can handle a beating on rails and are made of hardened steel to ensure durability on and off rails. The tapered shape and 98mm waist will give you great handling when you are ripping the trees and outside the park, and keep you balanced on landings and rails. If you need any more info just hit up our customer service team on our website.

 

[roddy116]

Great to hear you are considering the Allplay, I am confident it would bring you the buttery playful feel you enjoyed in your Al Dente while having improved durability. Our use of carbon fiber stringers keeps the skis flex pattern from wearing down, while simultaneously increasing stability at speed. Our 2.2X2.5mm thickness edges can handle a beating on rails and are made of hardened steel to ensure durability on and off rails. The tapered shape and 98mm waist will give you great handling when you are ripping the trees and outside the park, and keep you balanced on landings and rails. If you need any more info just hit up our customer service team on our website.

well damn j you summed that up pretty well, ill look more into it for sure

 

[RudyGarmisch]

Do you want to make a decision before demoing a pair or do you have some time to choose?

 

[roddy116]

Do you want to make a decision before demoing a pair or do you have some time to choose?

I dont think i can demo on3p's here except during the summer up in beartooth, but yeah i need some new park skis before the season starts.

 

[J_skis]

Do you want to make a decision before demoing a pair or do you have some time to choose?

Remember we're also the only ski company to offer a 100% Money Back Guarantee! Get the skis now, ride them for up to 3 days with your own bindings on your own mountain, and if you're not completely stoked on them send them back for a different ski or a full refund!

Always happy to talk, hit up info@jskis.com anytime.

 

[iggyskier]

I dont think i can demo on3p's here except during the summer up in beartooth, but yeah i need some new park skis before the season starts.

Chalet Sports in Bozeman & East Slope Outdoor in Big Sky both have demos.

As for Kartel vs AllPlay - I'd lean Kartel if you want something more stable and supportive, Allplay if you want something a bit more playful and buttery. Both will be more stable than the Al Dente - but ON3P and Jskis tend to have variations in our designs that suit our styles/mountains different (we like stiffer skis with more rocker, where their skis tend to be softer with less rocker - sort of an extension of the different snowpacks and mountains we each come from).

Someone actually asked a similar question on reddit recently (along with the Moment PB&J). Here is the thread if you want to read more comments. I copied and pasted my reply from there directly in here, as it likely answers some of your questions.
https://www.reddit.com/r/skiing/comments/9fb3us/does_anybody_have_some_experience_with_j_skis/

Reddit Response:

"I'm super biased for obvious reasons if you know who I am but I would view it as such:

- J Skis Allplay is going to be most playful and softest flexing of the bunch. J's rocker profiles tend to be lower and more east coast centric. Maple is a good core material - not quite as playful in my opinion as bamboo but damp and good at absorbing vibrations (as is bamboo, which IMO has a more responsive feel). Made by Utopie in Quebec.

- Kartel 96 would be in the middle of the group as far as playfulness - similar flex to the PB&J but a bit more carvy sidecut (due to Elliptical design in tip sidecut) and the most rocker. Definitely stiffer and more stable than the Allplay, but as such will want a bit more speed to come alive. Design wise, I tend to focus on using rocker to make skis playful while retaining ski stiffness so you can drive through variable snow (lots of it in the PNW) & so when you are trying to butter or load up the ski, the ski will hold your body weight. Just different train of thought. Made by us (ON3P) in Portland.

- PB&J will be similar to Kartel 96 in stability - with a touch more directional feel as it is mounted just a bit further back than the Allplay or Kartel 96. It will IMO feel the most locked into a long speed turn, as the Allplay is softer and just doesn't have the same power and the Kartel 96 has an elliptical front sidecut that wants to to carve the more you load it up. Made by Moment in Reno.

Rocker wise, Allplay has the least, then I believe the PB&J, then the Kartel 96.

You will get a different feel from the core between the three. As I said, the Allplay is going to be on the more playful end flex wise, where the other two will be more driven and have better performance at speed. Bamboo is going to be heavier than the Aspen/Pine core on the PB&J, but we feel it also absorbs more vibration.

All have UHMW sidewalls for impact. All have 4001 Durasurf base - so very durable base material. We're running 1.8mm on the Kartel 96, Moment is on 1.3mm on the PB&J, and J is on the 1.8mm I believe (not totally sure as their edge specs might be off). Edge wise J's website say 2.2mm x 2.5mm, but I think that might be a error and they mean 2.5mm x 2.5mm (which would normally be the right size to correspond to 1.8mm base material). ON3P is on 2.5mm x 2.5mm, and Moment (I believe) is on 2.0mm x 2.2mm. (NOTE: Utopie is building J Skis with the 2.2mm x 2.5mm edge, so that detail is not an error and I was incorrect thinking it could maybe be the 2.5mm x 2.5mm edge we use on all ON3Ps).

They all fit the same niche but with a different flavor based upon their designer's style and location.

One other note on size. ON3P measures post-pressing tip to tail. Moment & J measure pre-pressing flat base. So our 176cm Kartel 96 will actually be a touch longer than the 178cm J Skis.

I didn't talk about Nordica at all because 1) I just honestly never pay attention to their skis and know very little about their line and 2) am heavily biased and would MUCH rather see someone buy from Moment, J, or ON3P than a major (for, again, obviously reasons).

Hope that helps. If you have any other questions, post them up or give the ON3P factory a call. Thanks!"

As I said above in the end of the reddit thread, if you have any other questions, you can always just call/email/chat us at the factory.

**This post was edited on Sep 26th 2018 at 11:43:45am

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

You guys are so nice to each other! Somebody throw a punch already, Iggy, doesn't j skis test on innocent infant animals?? Jason, doesn't ON3P flatten rainforests to get their core materials???? How am I supposed to make a decision without a candidate hurling an insult at the other??? I thought this was america???

 

[iggyskier]

You guys are so nice to each other! Somebody throw a punch already, Iggy, doesn't j skis test on innocent infant animals?? Jason, doesn't ON3P flatten rainforests to get their core materials???? How am I supposed to make a decision without a candidate hurling an insult at the other??? I thought this was america???

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Haha. No doubt we both have an internal competitive streak when we're asked to compete head to head. But at the end of the day, if you not buying our skis, I'd much rather you be buying J, or Moment, or Praxis, and one of the other indies working hard to move skiing in the right direction. A strong indie ski scene helps all of us.

In some cases, too, other brands might be a better fit than our skis. That is why I have no issue recommending skis from other brands that I respect if I think might be a better fit. I always try to be square and give people my actual opinion, regardless of what it is - easier than trying to be a salesman all the time.

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

I know, and I'm glad both of you guys exist. If I hadn't found an awesome deal on some fatypus d sender 194s this year I would have bought from one of you two most likely.

Out of curiosity, how many pairs of the tall kartel did you sell and would you consider making a taller full twin tip ski in the future?

Haha. No doubt we both have an internal competitive streak when we're asked to compete head to head. But at the end of the day, if you not buying our skis, I'd much rather you be buying J, or Moment, or Praxis, and one of the other indies working hard to move skiing in the right direction. A strong indie ski scene helps all of us.

In some cases, too, other brands might be a better fit than our skis. That is why I have no issue recommending skis from other brands that I respect if I think might be a better fit. I always try to be square and give people my actual opinion, regardless of what it is - easier than trying to be a salesman all the time.

 

[iggyskier]

I know, and I'm glad both of you guys exist. If I hadn't found an awesome deal on some fatypus d sender 194s this year I would have bought from one of you two most likely.

Out of curiosity, how many pairs of the tall kartel did you sell and would you consider making a taller full twin tip ski in the future?

I don't post any sales numbers online, for obvious response. But, essentially, you are asking if we would build something like a 196cm Kartel in the future?

For what it is worth too, because we measure tip to tail, and most brands measure pre-pressing flat base length, our 191cm skis will measure about the same length as those Fatypus in 194cm. Just something to be aware of.

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

I was under the impression the 191 kartel was a custom, I understand you cant post sales numbers online, basically what I'm asking is would you say you've sold enough of them to make it a part of the kartel line for next year, or would that length more likely remain a custom build

I don't post any sales numbers online, for obvious response. But, essentially, you are asking if we would build something like a 196cm Kartel in the future?

For what it is worth too, because we measure tip to tail, and most brands measure pre-pressing flat base length, our 191cm skis will measure about the same length as those Fatypus in 194cm. Just something to be aware of.

 

[iggyskier]

I was under the impression the 191 kartel was a custom, I understand you cant post sales numbers online, basically what I'm asking is would you say you've sold enough of them to make it a part of the kartel line for next year, or would that length more likely remain a custom build

191cm Kartel 108 & 191cm Kartel 116 are stock skis - you can buy em right from the website. You can order them custom too.

The Kartel 96 longest size is 186cm stock, but we did a 191cm for a custom customer last spring and if you want one, we can set it up for custom order. Right now, I doubt we would sell enough 191cm Kartel 96 to make it a main-line ski, but never say never.

We'll continue to offer 191cm Kartel 108 & 191cm Kartel 116 as stock models going forward.

Hope that helps.

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

I'm a doofus, that totally does, I thought the 191 was only custom in all sizes. Thanks a bunch, good chance I'm getting one of the 108s or 116s next season

191cm Kartel 108 & 191cm Kartel 116 are stock skis - you can buy em right from the website. You can order them custom too.

The Kartel 96 longest size is 186cm stock, but we did a 191cm for a custom customer last spring and if you want one, we can set it up for custom order. Right now, I doubt we would sell enough 191cm Kartel 96 to make it a main-line ski, but never say never.

We'll continue to offer 191cm Kartel 108 & 191cm Kartel 116 as stock models going forward.

Hope that helps.

 

[iggyskier]

I'm a doofus, that totally does, I thought the 191 was only custom in all sizes. Thanks a bunch, good chance I'm getting one of the 108s or 116s next season

All good man. So many skis these days. If you have any other questions, just let me know.

 

[J_skis]

Haha. No doubt we both have an internal competitive streak when we're asked to compete head to head. But at the end of the day, if you not buying our skis, I'd much rather you be buying J, or Moment, or Praxis, and one of the other indies working hard to move skiing in the right direction. A strong indie ski scene helps all of us.

In some cases, too, other brands might be a better fit than our skis. That is why I have no issue recommending skis from other brands that I respect if I think might be a better fit. I always try to be square and give people my actual opinion, regardless of what it is - easier than trying to be a salesman all the time.

Thanks Iggy! Hit the nail on the head. Small, indie brands are the heart and soul of the ski industry and the only way to help promote a thriving future for the ski industry is by banding together. Obviously our first goal is to sell skis and stay in business, but buy purchasing a ski from a small company - whether it's us or someone else - you're helping craft brands as a whole gain a more prominent foothold in a previously macro-brew industry.

Op, not matter what ski you end up with thanks for being one of the few, daring skiers to go outside the realm of mass-produced skis!

 

[roddy116]

Thanks Iggy! Hit the nail on the head. Small, indie brands are the heart and soul of the ski industry and the only way to help promote a thriving future for the ski industry is by banding together. Obviously our first goal is to sell skis and stay in business, but buy purchasing a ski from a small company - whether it's us or someone else - you're helping craft brands as a whole gain a more prominent foothold in a previously macro-brew industry.

Op, not matter what ski you end up with thanks for being one of the few, daring skiers to go outside the realm of mass-produced skis!

XD no problem jason, Im still not sure what ski im gonna pick up, truthfully i might just get both because they both seem like an equally good match. Kind of come down to what top sheet at this point .