Suggestions for a big mountain in bad snow ski

[Tripleblacks]

I am 5’ 9” and about 155 pounds. I am looking for a big mountain ski that can handle crap snow. I am looking for a ski to handle icy/crusty conditions on fairly steep terrain at speed. I would prefer them to have a short turning radius and lower swing weight (I am probably asking for too much). Basically my end goal is to figure 11 through a mogul field.

For reference I love the Armada Edollos for Park and the magic J is my current big mountain ski. I have been less than amped on my K2 coombacks. I like the armada pipe cleaners, but I don’t spin big enough tricks to take advantage of them and the park rockers isn’t that fun.

Thanks for your suggestions in advance.

 

[patagonialuke]

I am 5’ 9” and about 155 pounds. I am looking for a big mountain ski that can handle crap snow. I am looking for a ski to handle icy/crusty conditions on fairly steep terrain at speed. I would prefer them to have a short turning radius and lower swing weight (I am probably asking for too much). Basically my end goal is to figure 11 through a mogul field.

For reference I love the Armada Edollos for Park and the magic J is my current big mountain ski. I have been less than amped on my K2 coombacks. I like the armada pipe cleaners, but I don’t spin big enough tricks to take advantage of them and the park rockers isn’t that fun.

Thanks for your suggestions in advance.

I think a few skis could work, with my top recommendations being the J Skis Metal, Nordica Enforcer 110, 4FRNT MSP 107, K2 Mindbender 108Ti. Metal and Enforcer 110 are a bit more playful, while the MSP 107 and Mindbender 108Ti are a bit more directional. But they're all quite damp and should hold up to higher speeds much better than your Edollos and Magic J's.

 

[TheWeaz]

Almost no ski will handle ice and crust at speed while having low swing weight and a tight turn radius, those traits kind of counter act eachother.

You could get a ski thats in the middle of all of those which the skis above kind of are, oryou could prioritize either maneuverability eg; low swing weight and tighter radius or prioritize stability in bad conditions and get a ski thats heavier and has a longer radius.

 

[Tripleblacks]

Almost no ski will handle ice and crust at speed while having low swing weight and a tight turn radius, those traits kind of counter act eachother.

I would have thought the turn radius was more a function of the shape than the stiffness. Are there additional things to think about here? I would have thought the stiffness controls how it handles on crap snow with a stiffer ski being heavier and having more swing weight. Which is probably what you are implying.

Thanks for the replies. The other option is that is starts snowing more so I don’t have to worry about buying crap condition skis.

 

[patagonialuke]

I would have thought the turn radius was more a function of the shape than the stiffness. Are there additional things to think about here? I would have thought the stiffness controls how it handles on crap snow with a stiffer ski being heavier and having more swing weight. Which is probably what you are implying.

Thanks for the replies. The other option is that is starts snowing more so I don’t have to worry about buying crap condition skis.

Turn radius is the result of the shape of the ski, but the types of turns you can make on a ski depend on more than just the stated radius. E.g., you can bend a fairly soft ski with a long stated radius into tighter turns, but if you have a super stiff ski with a moderate radius, you might not be able to bend it into tighter turns.

In my experience, weight and / or damping affects performance in rough snow more than stiffness. I've been on skis that are super stiff, but pretty light and they don't feel nearly as damp, stable, and confidence inspiring as slightly softer, but significantly heavier skis. Not all stiff skis are heavy, and not all stiff skis are super stable. If you want a ski to feel damp and composed in nasty conditions, you're almost always better off going with a heavier option.

For example, the Nordica Enforcer 110 has a stated radius of 18.5 m for the 185 cm version. This isn't a super tight radius, but I can still carve very tight turns on it (not slalom turns, but still pretty tight). I can also bend the Mindbender 108Ti (22.9 m radius for 186 cm) into pretty much the same, tighter turns. And yet, both skis feel comfortable making bigger turns.

So I wouldn't get too hung up on stated radii, unless a ski has a radius on the extreme end of the spectrum (25 m).

 

[Tripleblacks]

Turn radius is the result of the shape of the ski, but the types of turns you can make on a ski depend on more than just the stated radius. E.g., you can bend a fairly soft ski with a long stated radius into tighter turns, but if you have a super stiff ski with a moderate radius, you might not be able to bend it into tighter turns.

In my experience, weight and / or damping affects performance in rough snow more than stiffness. I've been on skis that are super stiff, but pretty light and they don't feel nearly as damp, stable, and confidence inspiring as slightly softer, but significantly heavier skis. Not all stiff skis are heavy, and not all stiff skis are super stable. If you want a ski to feel damp and composed in nasty conditions, you're almost always better off going with a heavier option.

For example, the Nordica Enforcer 110 has a stated radius of 18.5 m for the 185 cm version. This isn't a super tight radius, but I can still carve very tight turns on it (not slalom turns, but still pretty tight). I can also bend the Mindbender 108Ti (22.9 m radius for 186 cm) into pretty much the same, tighter turns. And yet, both skis feel comfortable making bigger turns.

So I wouldn't get too hung up on stated radii, unless a ski has a radius on the extreme end of the spectrum (25 m).

Thanks this is very helpful! This actually explains my armada pipe cleaners a bit. They are fairly stiff but not very damp (they are super solid on landings) but a bit touchy on say a mogul field.

 

[Greg_K]

Luke’s list of skis are great and all the skis on it will suit your needs. Another new 2019/2020 model just coming out in stores now is the Nordica Enforcer Free 104. Similar design to the Enforcer 110 but slightly lighter construction and a bit more pop due to added carbon stringers. Should be a little better on harder snow, quicker edge to edge and lighter on it’s feet in trees and moguls.

 

[TheWeaz]

I would have thought the turn radius was more a function of the shape than the stiffness. Are there additional things to think about here? I would have thought the stiffness controls how it handles on crap snow with a stiffer ski being heavier and having more swing weight. Which is probably what you are implying.

Thanks for the replies. The other option is that is starts snowing more so I don’t have to worry about buying crap condition skis.

Generally yesturn radius is decided by ski shape. But I was moreso saying that tight turn radius skis generally don’t like to be going fast through choppy crappy conditions, as well as most tighter radius skis are generally lighter which also means less stability... but those same skis are also a lot of fun when the conditions are more consistent.

I would consider a tight radius to be hnder 20 meters, my preference for most everyday skis is 20-27 ish meters while stuff with around a 30 meter turn radius or more starts to getinto purecharger territory. There aresome exceptions.

 

[patagonialuke]

Luke’s list of skis are great and all the skis on it will suit your needs. Another new 2019/2020 model just coming out in stores now is the Nordica Enforcer Free 104. Similar design to the Enforcer 110 but slightly lighter construction and a bit more pop due to added carbon stringers. Should be a little better on harder snow, quicker edge to edge and lighter on it’s feet in trees and moguls.

Yep, this ski and the Ranger 102 FR could be good additions to the list. Though the Enforcer 104 Free we just got in is actually coming in a touch heavier than our pair of 110’s (186 cm 104 coming in around 2240 g). And this is something I’m happy about (could make the 104 even a bit more damp). But Nordica says their new tip construction is supposed to lower the swingweight, so there’s a chance the 104 could be more damp while also having a lower swingweight. We’ll see. I’m dying to get on that ski.

 

[Greg_K]

Yep, this ski and the Ranger 102 FR could be good additions to the list. Though the Enforcer 104 Free we just got in is actually coming in a touch heavier than our pair of 110’s (186 cm 104 coming in around 2240 g). And this is something I’m happy about (could make the 104 even a bit more damp). But Nordica says their new tip construction is supposed to lower the swingweight, so there’s a chance the 104 could be more damp while also having a lower swingweight. We’ll see. I’m dying to get on that ski.

That’s interesting, as I would have guessed it would be in the 2100gram range. Should maybe feel lighter as you say with those lighter construction tips but charge better through crud.

Nice to see manufacturers like K2 in the mind bender and Enforcer keeping the weights up for resort use.

 

[f100prerunner]

Would probably be worth it to check out the moment commander 108 as well

 

[B.Quincy]

Yep, this ski and the Ranger 102 FR could be good additions to the list. Though the Enforcer 104 Free we just got in is actually coming in a touch heavier than our pair of 110’s (186 cm 104 coming in around 2240 g). And this is something I’m happy about (could make the 104 even a bit more damp). But Nordica says their new tip construction is supposed to lower the swingweight, so there’s a chance the 104 could be more damp while also having a lower swingweight. We’ll see. I’m dying to get on that ski.

Skied on the 104 at the on snow last week, skis slightly damper than 110 and feels the most like it compared to 100, also the rocker they introduced to the tail on the 104 really makes it a fun ski and helped with the other enforcer tail shape.

 

[patagonialuke]

Just got off the 104. Love it. Feels very similar to the 110, but with much better edge hold (granted, it came with a super sharp tune and I'm planning on detuning the tails). Carves amazing well for its size, quite damp, yet still has a lot of energy when popping off stuff or carving a turn. And it's still pretty playful, especially with bindings moved +2 of recommended. Feels to me like a slightly more forgiving Fischer Ranger 102 FR.

 

[LineSkier]

I recently fell in love with Stormriders and I don't think anyone makes a damper ski than Stockli. Both the SR95 and SR88 have turn radii less than or equal to about 20m even at lengths in the mid 180cm's, and even at that length both weigh in under 4kg (smaller radius and lower weight than edollo). SR's are famously performant in sketchy terrain and I can personally confirm they're stable and damp AF at speed in any condition except cement.

**This post was edited on Feb 6th 2019 at 3:11:01pm

 

[Greg_K]

Skied on the 104 at the on snow last week, skis slightly damper than 110 and feels the most like it compared to 100, also the rocker they introduced to the tail on the 104 really makes it a fun ski and helped with the other enforcer tail shape.

Just got off the 104. Love it. Feels very similar to the 110, but with much better edge hold (granted, it came with a super sharp tune and I'm planning on detuning the tails). Carves amazing well for its size, quite damp, yet still has a lot of energy when popping off stuff or carving a turn. And it's still pretty playful, especially with bindings moved +2 of recommended. Feels to me like a slightly more forgiving Fischer Ranger 102 FR.

Thread hijack- I ended up getting a new pair of bad snow skis based on these and other positive reviews. I got a pair of 186cm Enforcer Free 104 today and already tuned them up. They were super sharp from the factory! There were a few spots that were a bit edge high towards the tip/tails and touched up base/edge angles. Thinking I won’t have to detune now. Loving the flex of them.

They weighed 2258/2260 grams for my pair.

Excited to try try them out and will let you know what I think once I test them out!

 

[patagonialuke]

Thread hijack- I ended up getting a new pair of bad snow skis based on these and other positive reviews. I got a pair of 186cm Enforcer Free 104 today and already tuned them up. They were super sharp from the factory! There were a few spots that were a bit edge high towards the tip/tails and touched up base/edge angles. Thinking I won’t have to detune now. Loving the flex of them.

They weighed 2258/2260 grams for my pair.

Excited to try try them out and will let you know what I think once I test them out!

yeah, I've been loving them so far. Definitely a great 1-ski quiver. And yeah, I ended up detuning with a gummy from about 2" before the contact points to the ends of the ski. Helped loosen them up and still have great edge hold.

 

[Greg_K]

yeah, I've been loving them so far. Definitely a great 1-ski quiver. And yeah, I ended up detuning with a gummy from about 2" before the contact points to the ends of the ski. Helped loosen them up and still have great edge hold.

Glad you’re liking them! I carry a gummy stone so will see if mine need any tweaking on the hill. Mounted mine +2 as well.

Hoping they be a good “bit of snow/afternoon crud” ski in my quiver but look like a great one ski quiver for someone out West.

 

[patagonialuke]

Glad you’re liking them! I carry a gummy stone so will see if mine need any tweaking on the hill. Mounted mine +2 as well.

Hoping they be a good “bit of snow/afternoon crud” ski in my quiver but look like a great one ski quiver for someone out West.

Yup. Seems like we're on the exact same page. I've been liking them most at +2 as well. And yeah, those sort of "bit of snow, mostly chop and crud" conditions are exactly where I've been liking them most.

 

[Greg_K]

Yup. Seems like we're on the exact same page. I've been liking them most at +2 as well. And yeah, those sort of "bit of snow, mostly chop and crud" conditions are exactly where I've been liking them most.

Perfect! Lol

 

[B.Quincy]

I recently fell in love with Stormriders and I don't think anyone makes a damper ski than Stockli. Both the SR95 and SR88 have turn radii less than or equal to about 20m even at lengths in the mid 180cm's, and even at that length both weigh in under 4kg (smaller radius and lower weight than edollo). SR's are famously performant in sketchy terrain and I can personally confirm they're stable and damp AF at speed in any condition except cement.

**This post was edited on Feb 6th 2019 at 3:11:01pm

Any time I ski on stockli's it feels like the keep daring me to go faster and harder the dampness of the ski is unrivaled.

 

[Piste.Off]

Blizzard Bodacious has everything you want but the tight radius, but as said above that's gonna be hard to find. In fact I'll sell you my pair of 185s... pm if interested