987321654hgfd
Active member
Double post, but it should also be up to the athletes if they want to participate or not. They're the ones who've devoted everything to it and may never get another chance.
Stephen Fry says Sochi Olympics should be banned
- Thread starter CliffyByro
- Start date
CliffyByro
Active member
thank you
corona
Active member
What makes the gay in Russia whose rights you don't give a fuck about any different than the rights of a gay in USA you supposedly care so much about? They're both human beings. Just one was born on a different spit of rock than the other.
You're essentially saying that some people's lives are worth more than others based on where they're born. Which is a fucked up thing to think.
You're essentially saying that some people's lives are worth more than others based on where they're born. Which is a fucked up thing to think.
Arabian
Member
Welp, you're definitely more composed than I am when it comes to online arguments. 10/10 everything you just said.
The idea that the tradeoff the athletes and economy makes in comparison with the integrity of human rights and lives of gay athletes is even debateable is such a privileged (hate that word) argument it hurts. Rachy, pull your head out of your ass. Everyone else, good job. Especially J.D.
The idea that the tradeoff the athletes and economy makes in comparison with the integrity of human rights and lives of gay athletes is even debateable is such a privileged (hate that word) argument it hurts. Rachy, pull your head out of your ass. Everyone else, good job. Especially J.D.
987321654hgfd
Active member
Let people in Russia care about them. Russia is a country where someone can move if they don't like the laws.
In my eyes, being born in the United States, I do care more about people in this country than anywhere else in the world.
In my eyes, being born in the United States, I do care more about people in this country than anywhere else in the world.
You guys do know what's happening in Brazil right?
It's probably worse.
By our standard, there aren't many countries suitable for any global event.
I think we would be better off coming together and forcing Russia to agree to keep everyone safe and void the law for the events. Then let people who are opposed to the law come together internationally to show the people that there is nothing wrong with being gay.
you realize civil rights are a newer concept to many people. 50 years ago, it was illegal for my mom and my step dad to be married.
I, and a lot of others, see this as a chance to actually help show homosexuality in a positive light.
It's probably worse.
By our standard, there aren't many countries suitable for any global event.
I think we would be better off coming together and forcing Russia to agree to keep everyone safe and void the law for the events. Then let people who are opposed to the law come together internationally to show the people that there is nothing wrong with being gay.
you realize civil rights are a newer concept to many people. 50 years ago, it was illegal for my mom and my step dad to be married.
I, and a lot of others, see this as a chance to actually help show homosexuality in a positive light.
GrahamGould
Member
yes, they are intitled to their opinion, but there is a difference between not liking homosexuals and discriminating against homosexuals.
.Roockley.
Active member
very well written point
Arabian
Member
Oh come on. Stop playing the Oppression Olympics with communities which you do not belong to. You don't speak for brazilian LGBT folk, and you damn sure don't speak for LGBT folk in general and how dare you try and justify your points by telling us that a 10 year prison sentence is more amenable than murder. Those are our two choices and we should be grateful that we're given the Russian option?
Fuck. You.
Fuck. You.
CliffyByro
Active member
it's not about the "laws", it's about the fact that gay people are being beaten and raped in horrific ways.
basically what you're saying is, "guys, hold off on the discrimination for a couple weeks so i can have a once in a lifetime experience and get paid. once we're gone feel free to rape and murder as much as you want though!"
basically what you're saying is, "guys, hold off on the discrimination for a couple weeks so i can have a once in a lifetime experience and get paid. once we're gone feel free to rape and murder as much as you want though!"
CliffyByro
Active member
yeah i get you. it's such a sticky topic really, but i think some sort of decision should be made pretty soon.
i guess one argument to be made for moving them/ cancelling them is not letting russia make a ton of money from it
i guess one argument to be made for moving them/ cancelling them is not letting russia make a ton of money from it
I'm not trying to speak as a representative of the LGBT community, nor have I ever. But I do believe that boycotting is doing less good than other options available.
It's Buzzfeed, whatever, but this guy has an amazing perspective on it all and as the guy who founded a non profit to "combat homophobia in sports," I think his points should be taken seriously.
Please read this:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/patrickburke/dont-boycott-sochi
It's Buzzfeed, whatever, but this guy has an amazing perspective on it all and as the guy who founded a non profit to "combat homophobia in sports," I think his points should be taken seriously.
Please read this:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/patrickburke/dont-boycott-sochi
GayWolf420
Active member
"Yeah guys, cut the bigotry bullshit for a few weeks so I can make some money."
How can you even equate the two? One is debatably a failure by the government to have policies in place to minimize or prevent a bad thing from happening, the other is the government actively promoting the bad thing in happening. Inertia in solving a problem like random gun violence by crazy people isn't terribly surprising because there are plenty of opinions on how to combat the evil that's being faced and it's not a simple problem to solve. In the case of Russia, it's very simple: repeal laws that institutionalize bigotry in your country.
There's never going to be a particularly good analogy, but the one that springs repeatedly to mind is apartheid. And no, the outrage over that did not wane after a few months.
There's never going to be a particularly good analogy, but the one that springs repeatedly to mind is apartheid. And no, the outrage over that did not wane after a few months.
I challenge everyone to read as much as possible about everything going on. Both sides.
Here's a great article about how shitty things are and why they have gone over budget.
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21581764-most-expensive-olympic-games-history-offer-rich-pickings-select-few-castles?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/pe/castlesinthesand
Here's an article on Brazil
http://metro.co.uk/2013/08/07/three-years-until-rio-2016-opening-ceremony-but-olympics-and-world-cup-cause-unrest-in-brazil-3900174/
Here's an article about an actual gay olympian
http://www.wibw.com/home/nationalnews/headlines/US-Olympic-Skating-Hopeful-Speaks-Out-On-Russias-Anti-Gay-Laws-219054391.html
Here's an article that sounds like this thread until you hit the end.
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/08/09/sochi-2014-no-good-options-for-dealing-with-russias-anti-gay-law-ahead-of-olympics/
and my favorite: Don't boycott, but ban Russia from their own olympics.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cyd-zeigler/dont-boycott-ban-russia-from-their-own-winter-olympics_b_3720026.html
and I still recommend the article I posted in my last post.
Yay information.
Here's a great article about how shitty things are and why they have gone over budget.
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21581764-most-expensive-olympic-games-history-offer-rich-pickings-select-few-castles?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/pe/castlesinthesand
Here's an article on Brazil
http://metro.co.uk/2013/08/07/three-years-until-rio-2016-opening-ceremony-but-olympics-and-world-cup-cause-unrest-in-brazil-3900174/
Here's an article about an actual gay olympian
http://www.wibw.com/home/nationalnews/headlines/US-Olympic-Skating-Hopeful-Speaks-Out-On-Russias-Anti-Gay-Laws-219054391.html
Here's an article that sounds like this thread until you hit the end.
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/08/09/sochi-2014-no-good-options-for-dealing-with-russias-anti-gay-law-ahead-of-olympics/
and my favorite: Don't boycott, but ban Russia from their own olympics.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cyd-zeigler/dont-boycott-ban-russia-from-their-own-winter-olympics_b_3720026.html
and I still recommend the article I posted in my last post.
Yay information.
International pressure - including sports-related pressure, bans by other countries from competing in rugby and cricket events, and a 25 year olympic ban - played a role. The international community should be sanctioning Russia to the greatest extent practicable. Unfortunately it's just not feasible to cut them off from the outside world entirely, but they should be made to feel the hurt wherever possible. It will make a difference, because non-LGBT individuals will begin to ask themselves whether these policies are really worth the economic difficulties and inconveniences (i.e., inability to travel to, or sell your goods to, Canadians).
As for the second point, I hate facebook activism too. The Joseph Kony thing is the perfect example of how fucked up stupid people are with that kind of stuff. No one does any research. And it's reared its ugly head on this issue too - the Stolichnaya protests, where people are boycotting or pouring out bottles of Stoli, is absolutely window-licking retarded. Stoli is primarily made in Latvia, so you're not hurting Russia economically, and the company itself is staunchly, publicly, proudly and aggressively pro-gay. But people's knee-jerk is "Russia bad? Russia... VODKA! Let's boycott vodka!" It makes no sense, accomplishes nothing of use and hurts the wrong people.
However, this is absolutely something that needs to be addressed internationally and diplomatically, by governments, not people on the internet. To the extent people in the USA, Canada, the UK, Australia, Sweden, wherever the hell, can make it clear to their governments that this is actually a priority, and that we want something done about this disgusting regime immediately, the pressure will result in action.
Unfortunately, moving the olympics is probably not going to happen. Neither is banning Russia from its own games. Those would be bold, costly, incredibly difficult and downright brave actions, and it's patently clear that Jacques Rogge's IOC is comprised of as slimy a group of limp-wristed diplomatic weasel cowards as exists anywhere in the world. They'll load up their sacks of money and not think twice. But these are the kind of things that should be done, and realistic or not, everyone should be as loud as possible in support of them if only to make the silence from those cowards more jarring in their lack of meaningful response. If it doesn't publicly shame them into taking action, well, at least it'll publicly shame them.
As for the second point, I hate facebook activism too. The Joseph Kony thing is the perfect example of how fucked up stupid people are with that kind of stuff. No one does any research. And it's reared its ugly head on this issue too - the Stolichnaya protests, where people are boycotting or pouring out bottles of Stoli, is absolutely window-licking retarded. Stoli is primarily made in Latvia, so you're not hurting Russia economically, and the company itself is staunchly, publicly, proudly and aggressively pro-gay. But people's knee-jerk is "Russia bad? Russia... VODKA! Let's boycott vodka!" It makes no sense, accomplishes nothing of use and hurts the wrong people.
However, this is absolutely something that needs to be addressed internationally and diplomatically, by governments, not people on the internet. To the extent people in the USA, Canada, the UK, Australia, Sweden, wherever the hell, can make it clear to their governments that this is actually a priority, and that we want something done about this disgusting regime immediately, the pressure will result in action.
Unfortunately, moving the olympics is probably not going to happen. Neither is banning Russia from its own games. Those would be bold, costly, incredibly difficult and downright brave actions, and it's patently clear that Jacques Rogge's IOC is comprised of as slimy a group of limp-wristed diplomatic weasel cowards as exists anywhere in the world. They'll load up their sacks of money and not think twice. But these are the kind of things that should be done, and realistic or not, everyone should be as loud as possible in support of them if only to make the silence from those cowards more jarring in their lack of meaningful response. If it doesn't publicly shame them into taking action, well, at least it'll publicly shame them.
Black-Bandanna
Active member
You scold people for only being concerned with the present and forefront, and cite Brazil as an example of lesser known atrocities, yet miss the point completely...
Brazil's smallest problem is the unrest and rioting from money being dumped into the World Cup.
[ For people who don't know, or who are too retarded to use the Googlemachine, Brazil is in fact hosting the 2014 World Cup, and Brazilians are not too fucking happy about it. While healthcare and education is being left by the wayside, the Brazilian government has decided to pour an amount of money into the 'Cup that can only be described as gargantuan. You know... I've always liked that word, "gargantuan"... so rarely have an opportunity to use it in a sentence. The people are understandably furious and have become obstinate to the point of violence. This violence has erupted all throughout the country. ]
How-fucking-ever, the larger issue with which our beloved Rachy seems to be naturally oblivious too, much like many other things, is that Brazil is one of the worst human rights violators in the world (I know shocking, Brazil seems so harmless right?). The list includes summary executions, child and forced labor, mass discrimination of the indigenous people and black persons as a whole, human trafficking, unfair pretrial detention, unlawful killings, corruption on all levels, police brutality and abuse within the prison system. I mean, fuck.
What I am trying to say is (and what I hope Rachy was trying to as well but maybe didn't have the brainpower to) is that there is A LOT OF SHIT GOING ON IN THE WORLD THAT IS FUCKED, NOT JUST IN RUSSIA. Don't just get pissed at what is being thrown in your face, however use your ears and eyes to learn more and get furious about more; there is A LOT to be furious about.
That said, Russia is fucked, and I believe a boycott would shame them, for they are a very proud nation. They deserve that shame.
Brazil's smallest problem is the unrest and rioting from money being dumped into the World Cup.
[ For people who don't know, or who are too retarded to use the Googlemachine, Brazil is in fact hosting the 2014 World Cup, and Brazilians are not too fucking happy about it. While healthcare and education is being left by the wayside, the Brazilian government has decided to pour an amount of money into the 'Cup that can only be described as gargantuan. You know... I've always liked that word, "gargantuan"... so rarely have an opportunity to use it in a sentence. The people are understandably furious and have become obstinate to the point of violence. This violence has erupted all throughout the country. ]
How-fucking-ever, the larger issue with which our beloved Rachy seems to be naturally oblivious too, much like many other things, is that Brazil is one of the worst human rights violators in the world (I know shocking, Brazil seems so harmless right?). The list includes summary executions, child and forced labor, mass discrimination of the indigenous people and black persons as a whole, human trafficking, unfair pretrial detention, unlawful killings, corruption on all levels, police brutality and abuse within the prison system. I mean, fuck.
What I am trying to say is (and what I hope Rachy was trying to as well but maybe didn't have the brainpower to) is that there is A LOT OF SHIT GOING ON IN THE WORLD THAT IS FUCKED, NOT JUST IN RUSSIA. Don't just get pissed at what is being thrown in your face, however use your ears and eyes to learn more and get furious about more; there is A LOT to be furious about.
That said, Russia is fucked, and I believe a boycott would shame them, for they are a very proud nation. They deserve that shame.
Black-Bandanna
Active member
Gonna have to take a step back and apologize to Rachy for taking my frustrations out on her. D(runk)ick move. If you ignore the unnecessary jabs in there, there is actually a point. Hint: see broken caps lock portion.
ShaunNDDuffY
Member
I adore Stephen fry and I've always remembered a quote from him on how to deal with bullies is by saying "don't do that, you'll give me an erection."
Obviously the Olympics is going to happen, to much time and money is invested into the games and that's why The Berlin games still went on.
If a culture believes that being gay is wrong, like most of the Christian, Muslim and most religious cultures believe, there is not much you can do to change that, hopefully that will change in time. What need to change if Russia wants to join us in the 21st century is to stop the ridicule and ill treatment of these people. It's to much to ask to say that they shall let gay people to get married etc at this time, got to take it step by steps. To be honest most armies are not aloud to express their sexuality. The Olympics is a chance to pressure change to this wrong doing when the worlds media is watching.
Russia should remember that the origins of the Olympics Lie with the Romans who were pretty darn gay and used to compete naked.
Obviously the Olympics is going to happen, to much time and money is invested into the games and that's why The Berlin games still went on.
If a culture believes that being gay is wrong, like most of the Christian, Muslim and most religious cultures believe, there is not much you can do to change that, hopefully that will change in time. What need to change if Russia wants to join us in the 21st century is to stop the ridicule and ill treatment of these people. It's to much to ask to say that they shall let gay people to get married etc at this time, got to take it step by steps. To be honest most armies are not aloud to express their sexuality. The Olympics is a chance to pressure change to this wrong doing when the worlds media is watching.
Russia should remember that the origins of the Olympics Lie with the Romans who were pretty darn gay and used to compete naked.
CliffyByro
Active member
haha it was the greeks dude. but yes i agree.
Mag
Active member
ShaunNDDuffY
Member
Lol fuck man, argh well, close enough!
vailsux.com
Active member
Russia sucks, no one is surprised. I don't know why anyone thought it was a good idea to host the olympics in a country that is notorious for the terrible treatment of its own people and foreigners alike.
Dustin.
Active member
If we aren't going to have Olympics until social injustice is cured, I guess we just won't have Olympics anymore. Want to make a statement about gay rights? Let men and women who don't care who's gay compete against each other in peace and take note of how no one is getting butt hurt about gay rights during a bobsled race.
The point should be: The Olympics should stop being utilized as a platform for political agendas.
The point should be: The Olympics should stop being utilized as a platform for political agendas.
987321654hgfd
Active member
If you're going to post a photo of this medal ceremony, I'm going to post a photo of this one.
Reasoning? These Olympics are going to happen in Russia. Same with the 2018 world cup. It sucks, but it is what it is. and you speak of Brazil? well.. next year they have the World Cup. Overall, shit aint going well for gays (honestly, when has it ever?), and the athletes themselves need to pull some of the above sort of stuff to make the message known.
Ultimately, this is the primetime chance for these role models to actually be serious role models... and if these Olympics and next year's World Cup can shine the spotlight front and centre on the homophobia of these nations' laws, and the disgusting hate crimes they allow, then by all means.
Imagine if countries just grouped up, and rolled into Sochi in full on Rainbow uniforms. Imagine if they walked into the stadiums with not just their national flags, but with the rainbow flag and equal rights flags flanking it.
Imagine if the athletes turned the opening ceremonies of these events into an impromptu Gay Pride Parade. What a message that would be.
raise the middle finger in front of the world's TV sets, athletes.
Reasoning? These Olympics are going to happen in Russia. Same with the 2018 world cup. It sucks, but it is what it is. and you speak of Brazil? well.. next year they have the World Cup. Overall, shit aint going well for gays (honestly, when has it ever?), and the athletes themselves need to pull some of the above sort of stuff to make the message known.
Ultimately, this is the primetime chance for these role models to actually be serious role models... and if these Olympics and next year's World Cup can shine the spotlight front and centre on the homophobia of these nations' laws, and the disgusting hate crimes they allow, then by all means.
Imagine if countries just grouped up, and rolled into Sochi in full on Rainbow uniforms. Imagine if they walked into the stadiums with not just their national flags, but with the rainbow flag and equal rights flags flanking it.
Imagine if the athletes turned the opening ceremonies of these events into an impromptu Gay Pride Parade. What a message that would be.
raise the middle finger in front of the world's TV sets, athletes.
iH8pow
Active member
stephen fry can suck a dick. i want the olympics. russia is entitled to their own opinion. GAY ATHLETES WILL NOT BE ARRESTED. i cant say the same for the inevitable foreigners who come to protest, they'll be jailed and i wont feel sorry for them at all. good for them, but they are fucking dumbasses if they don't see that as a strong possibility. I've heard stats, they really don't view homosexually favorably in russia. deal with it.
look at all the shit we've glorified in the United States. Drug dealing (Blow, Weeds, Breaking Bad...), serial killers (Dexter), murder strippers and prostitutes (every rap song), and homosexuality glorification all over TV since the mid-late 90's. That's fine, that's how America has chosen it's values. But it's not just war that America doesn't keep their noses out of internationally.
russia has always been a shady government that is not trusted that's nothing new. I'm more concerned about our country that people trust but is becoming shady as fk. at least with enemies you know not to trust them too much, the most dangerous thing to you are your "friends" who you trust who have all the potential to fuck you bad
look at all the shit we've glorified in the United States. Drug dealing (Blow, Weeds, Breaking Bad...), serial killers (Dexter), murder strippers and prostitutes (every rap song), and homosexuality glorification all over TV since the mid-late 90's. That's fine, that's how America has chosen it's values. But it's not just war that America doesn't keep their noses out of internationally.
russia has always been a shady government that is not trusted that's nothing new. I'm more concerned about our country that people trust but is becoming shady as fk. at least with enemies you know not to trust them too much, the most dangerous thing to you are your "friends" who you trust who have all the potential to fuck you bad
iH8pow
Active member
I posted my last comment before reading. He does have a point, but I stand by that this is getting fucking annoying. The Olympics should and will carry on as planned. If they were going to deny Russia the olympics, they should have done it long ago.
What do you expect, it's the MOTHERLAND! Where its people are expected to die for their country and it's values. Pretty much like the middle east. IS THIS ANYTHING NEW? How does Russia win wars? Because their leader(s) value it's people so little that they never surrender no matter what cost--you could nuke Moscow and St. Petersburg and as long as the leaders are safe in a bunker, they will continue the fight. On top of that, is it news that Russia sends political enemies to siberia, work camps, death camps?... So, that's not so bad but if they make a law against homosexualism all hell breaks loose? I just don't get which part of this is "news"
Olympics are about money, who puts up the biggest bids, always has been and probably always will be. It was Russia that made the highest bid
What do you expect, it's the MOTHERLAND! Where its people are expected to die for their country and it's values. Pretty much like the middle east. IS THIS ANYTHING NEW? How does Russia win wars? Because their leader(s) value it's people so little that they never surrender no matter what cost--you could nuke Moscow and St. Petersburg and as long as the leaders are safe in a bunker, they will continue the fight. On top of that, is it news that Russia sends political enemies to siberia, work camps, death camps?... So, that's not so bad but if they make a law against homosexualism all hell breaks loose? I just don't get which part of this is "news"
Olympics are about money, who puts up the biggest bids, always has been and probably always will be. It was Russia that made the highest bid
Dude. It's not 1954. Russia is not the Soviet Union. You might be trollin, but...
Russia still has it's issues underlying from that time, but it's a far cry from Gulags and foreign wars - unless you count South Ossetia and Chechnya as particularly foreign. You also seem to forget, that the USSR was started with a surrender... so that's a thing.
Russia still has it's issues underlying from that time, but it's a far cry from Gulags and foreign wars - unless you count South Ossetia and Chechnya as particularly foreign. You also seem to forget, that the USSR was started with a surrender... so that's a thing.
Pancake_Fucker
Active member
Here we go. Ban the Olympics because we don't share their views. Tried the same shit with china and it didn't make a difference. You think you'll change their view by not allowing them to play sports? Just get them over with and enjoy the events.
