Social media forces (semi) pro skiers taking higher risks

[cozyco]

Attention Opinion!

Ay NS com,

first of all I am pretty stoked that the eastern Alps finally got the first big snowfall of 2017 after a long starving period. The consequences of big snowfalls are often higher avalanche risks all over the mountain. Wind drifted snow, cornices, lots of loose sluff in couloirs and so on.

I was browsing Instagram, checking out what some buddies, pro skiers, photographers or magazines were posting about the recent dump. I realized that a good percentage of them posted pictures skiing the freshies. #untouchedpowder #nofriendsonapowderday #newyeardump #powderwithfriends #firstlines #avybackpack #touringisfreedom or other dumb hashtags were obviously used.

Well I wouldn' t actually mind at all about all that, if they considered the current avy risk here. Skiing in obviously steep alpine terrain is just irresponsible, when the avy risk is rated at a high 3. Just read any snow pack review of the big mountain associations or avy service website. Oh and because that's not enough, why not brag on instagram with your retarded hashtags, motivating people who re new to touring and BC in general to do the same bullshit just for #firstlines and showing off on instagram, facebook, pinterest whatever how rad they are.

I am aware of the fact that a 3 doesn't mean: Don't ski, tour, hike or climb at all. With some knowledge about the snow layers, reports from the local avy service and sane risk calculation you can also tell that a 3 is more likely to be a 2. Well but the current conditions are 3 to 3,5 (alpine), 2 below tree line. Obviously depending what directions your spotted line faces, steepness and character of the terrain.

Due to the rider's "duty" delivering their sponzaars, social media community or magazines some s!ck pics (nowadays) it seems they re taking higher risks from year to year. No followers -> sponzars will loose interest, cause you re no more attracting the crowds -> less presence of sponzar's products -> less sales -> drop the rider.

Do you NS think that the strong presence of social media in our and (semi) pro skier's life forces them to take on higher risks to pleasure sponsors and the community around them?

p.s. An avy airbag backpack doesn't lower the avalanche risk either.

 

[tomatonater]

Those guys probably can ski that. Those guys probably know what they're doing. The dumb hashtags are just to get likes or they have no idea what to hashtag at all. Semi pros dont really have to be pushed too much because they still have to pay a little for their gear, where full pros get free gear so their sponsors expect a lot more out of them.

 

[philipc]

because most semi pros or pro's have a camera on them frequently they almost always have like 20 photos and videos stored up that they can post at any time if they 'need' likes. going out in the backcountry is dumb when it's high avalanche danger but theres always a risk vs. reward and they probably just wanted to get 'pitted', and i hope they took the precautions needed and did it safely

 

[cozyco]

Well when its even too dangerous even for die hard locals, mountain guides or just some old badasses I doubt the "(semi) pro skier" is not affected by the avy danger.

A 3+ is a 3+. When you re pro or not.

Those guys probably can ski that. Those guys probably know what they're doing.[...]

no they can't. if there's a serious avalanche they ll die. JP and Rapaport were excellent skiers too :'( Thall in his recent movie wouldn't make it out of the slab avalanche if he d been 2m (yeah metric master race!) to the left or right. That was ooonly luck that he wasn t caught in there.

If they really wanna ski there just for THEIR enjoyment: they shall do it, but don't post your dumb skiing pictures on IG or FB and motivate others to do it likewise.

Who isnt stoked seeing some cool guy shredding a huge open alpine bowl after the recent dump? Well if you re quiet new you may think: Yeah Fred, lets grab the skis, skins, bacon, shovel and probe and hit the north bowls.

With some decent knowledge you know that it is just too risky but there are still some who do not have the knowledge.

[...]Semi pros dont really have to be pushed too much because they still have to pay a little for their gear, where full pros get free gear so their sponsors expect a lot more out of them.

true! Maybe we have to search for the problem on the sponzars side. Pretty ruthless to force your riders to ski even in ridicolous unsafe conditions.

But I d say the pressure from the followers and community around a semi pro exists too and has definitely an impact.

 

[SFBv420.0]

who are you to determine or judge others risk tolerances?

 

[jake_tom_sully]

you and your thread are stupid

 

[skiitsbetter]

to justify getting free shit, you should be stepping it up higher than the next Joe. But the pressure should be coming from the hungry skiers below you, not from the consumers of ski media who expect gnarlier and gnarlier every year.

 

[cozyco]

who are you to determine or judge others risk tolerances?

I can judge and determine who and whatever I want.

Pro XYZ skies on a lv 4 avy danger day. #sickdump. First post a sick powder selfie and some firstlines. Why not talk about how shit the conditions are? That it isnt actually wise to get out?

Well you can post your sick footage in your "sick powder edit 2016/17" in off season.

BC jerries will haul up the mountains next day and want the first tracks. Just for the sake of #BCuntouched. A Marker Duke, sticker bombed Nalgen bottle, Atomic Bentchetler, G3 skin and G3 avy backpack doesnt make you invincible boy.

Lots of pros prefer talking about how sick the line, rideout or whatever instead of enlightening the average BC jerry that it isnt as safe as it looks.

Positive examples: Chris Rubens and Mark Abma.

Tbh. I really want to go touring atm, due to the pics lots of people post on IG but well you have to wait until the snow settles. Some uni buddies didnt want to. 1 ski was trashed and a broken hip cause a slab avalanche pulled one down a cliff band. Just cause some people made it seem its currently safe out there.

or maybe you dont even wanna discuss. got triggered by the hashtags haha?

 

[skistupid]

Ugh, this guy...

And this thread.

 

[eheath]

Which athletes/mags are you referring to? I don't follow really anyone who posts from the alps, but you seem to know of a bunch of people doing so. With the snow this year, I have been seeing tons of people posting photos of them skiing pow, some at the resort and some in the backcountry and I see zero problem with that? I'm confused now.

 

[Lonely]

i'm gonna compare this to skateboarding because there have been a lot of guys doing gnarly stuff just for the gram. Do I think it is as much of a problem in skiing? No. If a guy sees a crazy face, but waits too hit it for a few days or a week because of avy risk he's not going to lose his followers.

Skateboarding on the other hand is much more populated, so you have to do crazier things to get the likes and the repubs on big accounts.

I don't think it is as much about followers as it is getting known.

 

[Cole9]

Laughing my ass off to dangerous to ski in avalanche conditions but not to send 60ft cliffs… seems reasonable

 

[lurking]

I can judge and determine who and whatever I want.

Pro XYZ skies on a lv 4 avy danger day. #sickdump. First post a sick powder selfie and some firstlines. Why not talk about how shit the conditions are? That it isnt actually wise to get out?

Well you can post your sick footage in your "sick powder edit 2016/17" in off season.

BC jerries will haul up the mountains next day and want the first tracks. Just for the sake of #BCuntouched. A Marker Duke, sticker bombed Nalgen bottle, Atomic Bentchetler, G3 skin and G3 avy backpack doesnt make you invincible boy.

Lots of pros prefer talking about how sick the line, rideout or whatever instead of enlightening the average BC jerry that it isnt as safe as it looks.

Positive examples: Chris Rubens and Mark Abma.

Tbh. I really want to go touring atm, due to the pics lots of people post on IG but well you have to wait until the snow settles. Some uni buddies didnt want to. 1 ski was trashed and a broken hip cause a slab avalanche pulled one down a cliff band. Just cause some people made it seem its currently safe out there.

or maybe you dont even wanna discuss. got triggered by the hashtags haha?

And? You've gone on this long ass rant in broken English but what's your point? Oh everyone should be safe? This sport by design is unsafe and open to personal choice, let people do whatever the fuck they want.

 

[skistupid]

Which athletes/mags are you referring to?

I think he was referring to J.P. Auclair in one of his posts?

 

[cozyco]

And? You've gone on this long ass rant in broken English but what's your point? Oh everyone should be safe? This sport by design is unsafe and open to personal choice, let people do whatever the fuck they want.

Some NS members are actually not from an English speaking country...

 

[skistupid]

JP

You have to take into account that the remote Aysen Mountains on the Argentina/Chilean Patagonia border don't have avalanche forecasts.

 

[Mr.Bishop]

Attention Opinion!

Ay NS com,

first of all I am pretty stoked that the eastern Alps finally got the first big snowfall of 2017 after a long starving period. The consequences of big snowfalls are often higher avalanche risks all over the mountain. Wind drifted snow, cornices, lots of loose sluff in couloirs and so on.

I was browsing Instagram, checking out what some buddies, pro skiers, photographers or magazines were posting about the recent dump. I realized that a good percentage of them posted pictures skiing the freshies. #untouchedpowder #nofriendsonapowderday #newyeardump #powderwithfriends #firstlines #avybackpack #touringisfreedom or other dumb hashtags were obviously used.

Well I wouldn' t actually mind at all about all that, if they considered the current avy risk here. Skiing in obviously steep alpine terrain is just irresponsible, when the avy risk is rated at a high 3. Just read any snow pack review of the big mountain associations or avy service website. Oh and because that's not enough, why not brag on instagram with your retarded hashtags, motivating people who re new to touring and BC in general to do the same bullshit just for #firstlines and showing off on instagram, facebook, pinterest whatever how rad they are.

I am aware of the fact that a 3 doesn't mean: Don't ski, tour, hike or climb at all. With some knowledge about the snow layers, reports from the local avy service and sane risk calculation you can also tell that a 3 is more likely to be a 2. Well but the current conditions are 3 to 3,5 (alpine), 2 below tree line. Obviously depending what directions your spotted line faces, steepness and character of the terrain.

Due to the rider's "duty" delivering their sponzaars, social media community or magazines some s!ck pics (nowadays) it seems they re taking higher risks from year to year. No followers -> sponzars will loose interest, cause you re no more attracting the crowds -> less presence of sponzar's products -> less sales -> drop the rider.

Do you NS think that the strong presence of social media in our and (semi) pro skier's life forces them to take on higher risks to pleasure sponsors and the community around them?

p.s. An avy airbag backpack doesn't lower the avalanche risk either.

I don't know shit about avalanches to be perfectly honest with you, I'm an East Coast skier.

However, I do have a slight tangent to also take this thread on...

How responsible is it for the ski industry as a whole to be hard pushing side/backcountry on average skiers as the only way to dream about skiing? The last few years we've seen massive amounts of marketing from brands everywhere encouraging skiers to get into the backcountry... but very rarely is the level of danger associated with this activity also mentioned. Its more like "Buy our high margin pow skis and get an airbag because you have money!".

Pushing park skiing and resort skiing is one thing... but the backcountry will eat you alive even if you know what you're doing.

I do agree that there's pressure to get out there from social media - but its a pressure that is being extended to every corner of the ski industry and there is very little people are doing to educate on just how risky this behavior is.

 

[theabortionator]

I mean people have sent double flips off some sketchy cliff or booter just with their friends watching. Maybe it's had an impact but it's not like nobody was pushing the boundaries before phones and the webz really came into play

 

[Twig]

And? You've gone on this long ass rant in broken English but what's your point? Oh everyone should be safe? This sport by design is unsafe and open to personal choice, let people do whatever the fuck they want.

Seems like he's probably Austrian so that's not exactly the fairest of language callouts.

I'd argue Europe is a pretty different ballpark from the States. We aren't talking a relatively well trained public, with generally decent avy knowledge, entering the backcountry through gates, properly equipped and taking educated risks. We aren't talking about needing to head out of resort to get to the backcountry, via touring or sledding.

We have a skiing public that generally lacks knowledge and will frequently wander in to out of bounds terrain because it's so easy and there no rules (I'm generalising, I guarantee this stuff happens both sides of the pond). We have easy, unrestricted access to exposed lines from the lift, lines that often end up right back on trails due to the topography of many resorts, i.e. there is possibility of anything set off wiping out a trail.

Resorts obviously try and control these areas but I was buried when I was 12, on trail, by an avy triggered by a guy skiing a high risk line on the wrong day. It does happen, I've unfortunately been on the wrong end of it myself and I've seen it happen to others in a seperate incident. I've also seen people out to get the shot on that kind of line on days when the forecast would suggest that is a reckless thing to do. That slide killed both the guy who triggered it and a complete bystander by the way.

I agree people should be allowed to do what the fuck they want, but that doesn't extend to risking other people's lives. I know that isn't quite the point the OP is making but it is somewhat relevant to this topic and especially in the OP's location. More generally, there is a lot of work to do over here with regards mountain safety and pros do have an influencing role. Social media can be an issue, if people see a known skier risking a zone, you could well see an ill-educated following winning Darwin Awards. Again it is something you do see over here. I wouldn't argue the blame there rests on the 'pro' but maybe it'd still be best to mitigate this to a degree if possible, I'm not 100% sure of my own opinion on that.

I also appreciate these skiers have a job to do and that involves social media stoke, so this is an incredibly difficult line to tread. I'd be pleased to see them doing more in Europe to promote avy safety, OP does have a point there. I also agree that social media does add pressure to take risks, to build a following and hopefully to get (poorly) paid. That goes for all aspects of skiing but backcountry is probably the one it most affects (i.e you're most likely to die if you get it wrong). As long as the people in question aren't hitting stuff that directly risks others then I agree with the majority, it's up to them and taking risks does largely come with the territory. I think the main issue over here is we need more education so people can see the risks people take for what they are.

It's an interesting topic though, pretty similar to the helmet debate really (for the record I think pros should be able to do whatever they want there too). This is a pretty rambling response, interested to see how this thread goes.

**This post was edited on Jan 11th 2017 at 7:53:05pm

 

[Cole9]

I don't know shit about avalanches to be perfectly honest with you, I'm an East Coast skier.

However, I do have a slight tangent to also take this thread on...

How responsible is it for the ski industry as a whole to be hard pushing side/backcountry on average skiers as the only way to dream about skiing? The last few years we've seen massive amounts of marketing from brands everywhere encouraging skiers to get into the backcountry... but very rarely is the level of danger associated with this activity also mentioned. Its more like "Buy our high margin pow skis and get an airbag because you have money!".

Pushing park skiing and resort skiing is one thing... but the backcountry will eat you alive even if you know what you're doing.

I do agree that there's pressure to get out there from social media - but its a pressure that is being extended to every corner of the ski industry and there is very little people are doing to educate on just how risky this behavior is.

THIS IS BULL SHIT if you know what your doing you won't get messed up you can break your neck in the park how is backcountry worse… and how is it the industries fault their pushing pow skis. Powder skis aren't always for charging huge lines on steep faces their just meant for new snow not always avi conditions. Also it's people's choices what they want to ski the ski industry is simply just showing it's there.

 

[casual]

I agree that a lot of people in general make bad choices during these cycles. Particularly after a slow start to the winter.

However, you're being pretty presumptuous. You don't know really anything about these photos and their circumstances do you? For example, you don't know what aspect they're on, elevation, exactly when or where the photos were taken, etc. you don't know the education or experience level of the riders, you don't know what mitigation efforts have taken place before the shot, you don't know what terrain evaluations they've made prior to the shot, you don't have a panorama view showing recent signs of instability locally, you weren't skinning with them observing whoomphing or not, you didn't dig a pit with them, and you don't know their own personal risk tolerances.

You're just basically saying that because an avalanche bulletin exists, and certain types of travel are not recommended, the people in the photos are evidently making bad choices and that's not necessarily true.

Again, I agree there's a trend globally with the explosion of touring equipment that people with less experience and skills are putting themselves in dangerous situations out of a false sense of security partially generated by the nature of ski media and movies.

But, that doesn't mean it's the fault of these athletes that less savy people get in trouble, and I'm also not claiming that all these athletes are making good choices. In saying that neither you nor I know the quality of the decisions being made because we aren't there and don't have the information.

Frankly, as you become more educated and skilled, you rely less on these imaginary "concrete" rules and rating levels, and make decisions more fluidly and based on experience and intuition. Obviously bulletins and weather data provided by groups like the nwac or caic are essential tools for mountain travelers, but that's not the be all end all. There's too much spatial variability across a single slope, basin, drainage, ridge line, range, zone etc. to have full faith in a rating level. Any serious mountaineer or even bc skier has a running log and understanding of the season's snowpack, and additionally has areas and zones they travel frequently and maintain info on the snow pack structure in those particular places. It's entirely reasonable to ski a slope considered avt terrain even when a zone is forecast as considerable or possibly even high, provided any number of other variables check out and fit within the risk tolerance of the person, or even the slope itself relative to terrain traps, hazards, size etc. I mean, in Colorado, when the rating level is moderate, usually that means that the problem is either persistent slab or deep persistent slab, so likelihood of triggering is low, but consequences are high. Point being that just because a rating is low or moderate doesn't mean there isn't danger on a particular given slope at a particular given time. And the inverse is true also.

All this is just to say that while I agree social media and marketing has pushed some boundaries, you still have no clue about the particular bits of media and work that went into obtaining the shots/footage that inspired this thread.

 

[casual]

who are you to determine or judge others risk tolerances?

Exactly.

And to address another of the op's points.

It's still squarely on the shoulders of individuals to make their own decisions and evaluate their own personal skills, risk tolerances and make choices about where to travel or not.

It's a slippery slope and and a dangerous one, no pun intended, for you to imply that professionals and mountaineers should have to worry about what kind of influence they are having on some douchebag rei joe who thinks that because he went to an avy preparedness course 5 years ago and bought an f1 and a used shovel and probe (that he attempts to put together section by section because he's never used it...).

We are all responsible for our own choices. And, anyone who steps into dangerous terrain and conditions with limited skills is no different than someone buying a sail boat with no training trying to sail in a storm.

And this is coming from someone who has deployed in a couple out of bound rescues. I have a current flights card and could deploy as an avy tech tomorrow. I don't look forward to doing that shit, and I certainly don't want to be endangered due to someone else's poor choices, but I'll accept that because i still think people should be allowed to make their own decisions even when others may think those decisions are poor.

 

[Mr.Bishop]

THIS IS BULL SHIT if you know what your doing you won't get messed up you can break your neck in the park how is backcountry worse… and how is it the industries fault their pushing pow skis. Powder skis aren't always for charging huge lines on steep faces their just meant for new snow not always avi conditions. Also it's people's choices what they want to ski the ski industry is simply just showing it's there.

Avis are far different than park if you ask me.

Theres ski patrollers with medical training on site, the conditions are extremely controlled and you have to do something really stupid intentionally to get hurt.

Skiing sidecountry as a tourist is totally different. Go down that one slope that looks awesome, and an avalanche takes you out... and whoever is below.

If it's controlled resort conditions we're talking about fine, but when we're pushing people to go touring without a significant safety message attached it's a bit questionable.

 

[cozyco]

Seems like he's probably Austrian so that's not exactly the fairest of language callouts.

I'd argue Europe is a pretty different ballpark from the States. We aren't talking a relatively well trained public, with generally decent avy knowledge, entering the backcountry through gates, properly equipped and taking educated risks. We aren't talking about needing to head out of resort to get to the backcountry, via touring or sledding.

We have a skiing public that generally lacks knowledge and will frequently wander in to out of bounds terrain because it's so easy and there no rules (I'm generalising, I guarantee this stuff happens both sides of the pond). We have easy, unrestricted access to exposed lines from the lift, lines that often end up right back on trails due to the topography of many resorts, i.e. there is possibility of anything set off wiping out a trail.

Resorts obviously try and control these areas but I was buried when I was 12, on trail, by an avy triggered by a guy skiing a high risk line on the wrong day. It does happen, I've unfortunately been on the wrong end of it myself and I've seen it happen to others in a seperate incident. I've also seen people out to get the shot on that kind of line on days when the forecast would suggest that is a reckless thing to do. That slide killed both the guy who triggered it and a complete bystander by the way.

I agree people should be allowed to do what the fuck they want, but that doesn't extend to risking other people's lives. I know that isn't quite the point the OP is making but it is somewhat relevant to this topic and especially in the OP's location. More generally, there is a lot of work to do over here with regards mountain safety and pros do have an influencing role. Social media can be an issue, if people see a known skier risking a zone, you could well see an ill-educated following winning Darwin Awards. Again it is something you do see over here. I wouldn't argue the blame there rests on the 'pro' but maybe it'd still be best to mitigate this to a degree if possible, I'm not 100% sure of my own opinion on that.

I also appreciate these skiers have a job to do and that involves social media stoke, so this is an incredibly difficult line to tread. I'd be pleased to see them doing more in Europe to promote avy safety, OP does have a point there. I also agree that social media does add pressure to take risks, to build a following and hopefully to get (poorly) paid. That goes for all aspects of skiing but backcountry is probably the one it most affects (i.e you're most likely to die if you get it wrong). As long as the people in question aren't hitting stuff that directly risks others then I agree with the majority, it's up to them and taking risks does largely come with the territory. I think the main issue over here is we need more education so people can see the risks people take for what they are.

It's an interesting topic though, pretty similar to the helmet debate really (for the record I think pros should be able to do whatever they want there too). This is a pretty rambling response, interested to see how this thread goes.

**This post was edited on Jan 11th 2017 at 7:53:05pm

Thanks for summarizing the current issues here. I didnt know that the difference between EU and North America or maybe just the US is that huge. I ve spent a season in BC Canada and I heard from some locals and backcountry guides that they re facing a similar problem too. Not as bad as here but it exists. Lots of people wanna go touring, explore the backcountry and earning their turns and so on. Pushed a lot by industry, because the BC gear and safety market is more profitable than park/alpine skiing

I realized that I missed the point bya little bit in my first post. Imo its great that influential skiers push backcountry skiing and the whole earn your turn attitude. But sometimes they seem to forget that you are actual an idol for some of your followers. If the pro wants to or not. My brother for example thinks LSM is the shit so he skis without poles, flailing arms and slarves switch turns. I doubt he s the only one. Or skiing pow after a big dump in your area, because a pro did it. Totally ignoring the current avy danger. But it isn t as safe as it seems and a good percentage of people seem to forget that. When I am touring or skiing sidecountry stuff there s an incredible amount of skiers not wearing a backpack. How do they carry shovel and probe around? They don't. And I doubt that this species of skiers has ever been to an Avy 1 cause. Yay digging out people without even a bacon seems fun.

If an avalanche triggers you should be able to search for probably pitted persons. But without any equipment you can just hope that no one is in there. This is sadly the common sence in the Alps.

Quiet a while ago there was a big sledder meeting in Revy. An avalanche set off and pitted lots of people. Luckily almost everyone who was there had a bacon and helped localizing and digging out people before the mountain rescue service arrived. I dont want this to happen over here...

Maybe the title should be change into: Why pro skiers have to act more carful on social media accounts. Or at least what to post maybe.

Doesn t matter if you are Tanner Hall, Mark Abma, The Bunch etc. You can't prevent people from viewing you as an idol. And if you re skiing rad Alaska spines. Thats fine. Skiing huge BC kickers? Thats totally fine. Skiing out Avalanches? Fuck yes. But maybe show your followers the other side of the medal.

Its still up to them.

Just my 2 cents and I wanted to share my opinion here on NS. Discuss it, call me out or ignore it.

 

[Cole9]

Avis are far different than park if you ask me.

Theres ski patrollers with medical training on site, the conditions are extremely controlled and you have to do something really stupid intentionally to get hurt.

Skiing sidecountry as a tourist is totally different. Go down that one slope that looks awesome, and an avalanche takes you out... and whoever is below.

If it's controlled resort conditions we're talking about fine, but when we're pushing people to go touring without a significant safety message attached it's a bit questionable.

I see your point but I still disagree I think it's a persons choice what they want to ski most people that go touring aren't skiing 50-60 degree faces.

 

[Mingg]

I realized that I missed the point bya little bit in my first post. Imo its great that influential skiers push backcountry skiing and the whole earn your turn attitude. But sometimes they seem to forget that you are actual an idol for some of your followers. If the pro wants to or not. My brother for example thinks LSM is the shit so he skis without poles, flailing arms and slarves switch turns. I doubt he s the only one. Or skiing pow after a big dump in your area, because a pro did it. Totally ignoring the current avy danger. But it isn t as safe as it seems and a good percentage of people seem to forget that. When I am touring or skiing sidecountry stuff there s an incredible amount of skiers not wearing a backpack. How do they carry shovel and probe around? They don't. And I doubt that this species of skiers has ever been to an Avy 1 cause. Yay digging out people without even a bacon seems fun.

I feel this. Social media makes everything appear to be easily accessible. Social Media users only see the end result, they don't see what actually goes on. Instagram for example, you only see photos and videos which only show so much.

In general, if the conditions are known to be dangerous and at the same time a skier posts that they're out skiing freshies, to someone who knows little, it definitely appears they are ignoring warnings and dangers. As casual explained above, that is not the case and those skiers definitely know more about what they're doing than the average skier. But to the average skier they can very very easily misunderstand situations. They may be given the impression that the warnings are negligible or that it's safe to go out when it might not be.

I'm not saying this influences falls on the athletes. I think it's just the nature of social media and people in general.

 

[casual]

I see your point but I still disagree I think it's a persons choice what they want to ski most people that go touring aren't skiing 50-60 degree faces.

Most places outside of AK won't even have faces with enough snow to ski when the pitch approaches 55 or 60. Prime avy terrain is something like 37 or 38, and I'd venture that those are exactly the slopes people are skinning to or whatever.

And it is the person's choice up until the point where those choices begin to affect other people's safety.

 

[Mr.Bishop]

And it is the person's choice up until the point where those choices begin to affect other people's safety.

Boom. Convince all the mediocre weekend warriors that skinning is the best, sell them an airbag for safety and you have all the experts below them dead.

 

[cydwhit]

Avis are far different than park if you ask me.

Agreed. When was the last time some kid skiing park set off a slide that shut down a highway, buried a car or two, and closed a mountain pass for 20 hours?

Anyone equating these risks does not know what they are talking about.

 

[Wutever]

Boom. Convince all the mediocre weekend warriors that skinning is the best, sell them an airbag for safety and you have all the experts below them dead.

My brother and I have had some nasty experiences over at Squaw on the weekends, it's gotten worse in the past 3 or 4 years... The freeride team is considering taking the gondola down on the weekends due to the high traffic conditions. I was even sketched out a bit riding down the other day. I'm glad my parents and coaches raised us with some respect for others, respect the send but also respect others with your send.

Probably some of the worst situations I've heard of weekend warriors causing more danger than locals sending it hard were from when I was coaching. I heard one weekend, a kid got run over by a grown man, broke this 10 year old's leg, pivotal growing years, and the man was yelling at the kid threatening to sue for "getting in his way". I had to rescue a lot of the littler kids from out of control people, both tourists and locals.

You don't have more rights than someone else when it comes to safety, bottom line. As far as semi pros getting too sendy, I'm not sure, sounds more like the nature of the game is being fueled by social media, not solely caused by it. I know if I'm out with people and we're filming or something, we all get a bit competitive but I would assume the urge is much stronger at a higher competitive level. That coupled with needed to keep sponsors happy, keep followers up, maintain progress to a higher level, I can understand the rowdiness.

 

[tomatonater]

I'm glad my parents and coaches raised us with some respect for others, respect the send but also respect others with your send.

This. I had some guy run over me and my two friends skis and when we told him to watch it, he said he'd get our tickets clipped for going off jumps in the PARK. Some people

 

[Mr.Bishop]

Agreed. When was the last time some kid skiing park set off a slide that shut down a highway, buried a car or two, and closed a mountain pass for 20 hours?

Anyone equating these risks does not know what they are talking about.

Yeah man - absolutely nothing in skiing comes close to the dangers of Avalanches. I mean they can take out chairlifts, houses and trees. Sure the danger of you dying is essentially the same, (if you're only saying I do dangerous stuff and I can die if I please) but there's so much more external danger that an Avi causes.

I still think they're far more unpredictable than any other danger in skiing, but there is absolutely no way to argue how dangerous they are towards others.

 

[skistupid]

Ugh.

[img=]854015[/img]

 

[cozyco]

Ugh.

[img=]854015[/img]

poor hashtag choice

 

[Wutever]

This. I had some guy run over me and my two friends skis and when we told him to watch it, he said he'd get our tickets clipped for going off jumps in the PARK. Some people

There's definitely something to be said for giving respect (on his end, it sounds like you guys were in the right). If people who visit, or locals even, want respect from other skiers, they have to be willing to give respect.

My coaches all my life has been so adamant that ANYTHING can happen, especially when you're not paying attention. It's more important to be respectful than to be "first" or to hit exactly what you want at the risk of others. It's kinda like driving, we're all covered in gear, on skis and boards that are designed to go at higher speeds than most people have reaction times for. Not only does a skier have to watch out for natural dangers, they have to watch out for other skiers, especially kids who are off in La La Land cruising around.

Side note: some guy cut off this kid I used to ski with, the other 4 guys with him went shooting off down the hill after the guy and I guess they confronted him or something. Wish I could've seen that, I'm sure it was entertaining.