So i found out i could of died horribly yesterday...
- Thread starter Luc.
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MitchPee
Active member
The irony in it is we are preaching against what we practiced. I know you don't see them as good reasons (and I'm glad you realized that no matter what we think it will continue and your opinion matters and always will) but they are desperate. I know I keep repeating the banal word "desperation", but that is what their reasons are. They are fighting a battle which they cannot win without desperate measures.
In a war fought over food and water, it doesn't matter how you kill the enemy. You want to survive. It's all about the basic human nature to want to survive. I know the war isn't over food and water, but it's almost just as important to them.
In a war fought over food and water, it doesn't matter how you kill the enemy. You want to survive. It's all about the basic human nature to want to survive. I know the war isn't over food and water, but it's almost just as important to them.
Sorry I didnt realise that you meant I really WAS a Rhodes scholar.
And it also depends on the size of the attack. Although to say youre more likely to die from a terrorist act is kind of an assumption, because to some extent its an unknown quantity. How many terrorist attacks have there been in Canada? I cant say I remember that many to tell you the truth, although Im not Canadian so I cant be sure.
And it also depends on the size of the attack. Although to say youre more likely to die from a terrorist act is kind of an assumption, because to some extent its an unknown quantity. How many terrorist attacks have there been in Canada? I cant say I remember that many to tell you the truth, although Im not Canadian so I cant be sure.
Kevo
Active member
oh yeah, they were dancing in the streets becuase THEY WEREN'T GOING TO DIE INVADING THE MAIN ISLANDS OF JAPAN! Hmm... MAYBE JAPAN ATTACKED THE US FIRST??? Maybe they backstabbed the shit out of us after giving us a peace medalion? Maybe they committed war crimes all across the pacific rim and they needed to be stopped.
Maybe the people dancing in the streets in the middle east was because they were told that the US was the great satan?
And yeah, I know Bush has his "axis of evil" or whatever you call it.
Aligning Americans at the end of world war 2 with muslims dancing in the streets after 9-11 was stupid, ignorant, and uncalled for.
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Maybe the people dancing in the streets in the middle east was because they were told that the US was the great satan?
And yeah, I know Bush has his "axis of evil" or whatever you call it.
Aligning Americans at the end of world war 2 with muslims dancing in the streets after 9-11 was stupid, ignorant, and uncalled for.
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MitchPee
Active member
Actually, he's not far off.
The bombs are not what led to Japanese surrender. What led to Japanese surrender was in inevitable defeat of Germany in Europe. This meant Russia was going to enter the issue in the Pacific. Yes, Japan attacked the US first and that will never be something we see as fair in the rules of war.
We knew damn well what we were doing when we dropped the bomb. We didn't even wait for a response after we dropped the first one. We knew damn well what we were doing was out of spite.
I can see some relevance to his point. We killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. People that went to work everyday and didn't want part in the war. Children, mothers, sisters, husbands, etc. All these people were killed because we sought the need to avenge Pearl Harbor. Then again, war brings out the worst in people.
The bombs are not what led to Japanese surrender. What led to Japanese surrender was in inevitable defeat of Germany in Europe. This meant Russia was going to enter the issue in the Pacific. Yes, Japan attacked the US first and that will never be something we see as fair in the rules of war.
We knew damn well what we were doing when we dropped the bomb. We didn't even wait for a response after we dropped the first one. We knew damn well what we were doing was out of spite.
I can see some relevance to his point. We killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. People that went to work everyday and didn't want part in the war. Children, mothers, sisters, husbands, etc. All these people were killed because we sought the need to avenge Pearl Harbor. Then again, war brings out the worst in people.
hollygrove
Active member
I know! Even though Im canadian, we never did anything to those guys! Oh well...
Ease up there sunshine. I was simply saying that people can be pretty stoked at the total destruction of others, which is human nature I spose.
If I lived in the Middle East, I think there would be a few times that Id be convinced that the US might well be the great Satan after some of the things theyve done.
And dont act like America has never been part of huge atrocities. Hundreds of INNOCENT Somalis died when the US went on their famous rampage through Mogadishu, which they had no right to be there in the first place. And yet, 'Hollywood' feels like its the right thing to make a movie out of it??? In some sense we are condoning it because we go to see the mvie. Anyway I digress from my main point.
If you dont like these threads, dont read 'm.
If I lived in the Middle East, I think there would be a few times that Id be convinced that the US might well be the great Satan after some of the things theyve done.
And dont act like America has never been part of huge atrocities. Hundreds of INNOCENT Somalis died when the US went on their famous rampage through Mogadishu, which they had no right to be there in the first place. And yet, 'Hollywood' feels like its the right thing to make a movie out of it??? In some sense we are condoning it because we go to see the mvie. Anyway I digress from my main point.
If you dont like these threads, dont read 'm.
RKF
Active member
well it isnt entirely an assumption... and terrorists attacks dont change depending on what country you are in so if it is an attack in canada or the usa it will depend how well the attack is executed not what country it is in. and there arent alot of terrorist attacks in canada.
it is certanately not an unknow quantity, there are records of the number of people killed and if you look at the amount of terrorist attacks that take place, ie: suicide bombings, sept 11, oklahoma city, etc.etc. there are alot more deaths per terrorist attack than there are people killed crossing the street per street crossing. i dont know the exact number but i would say in terrorist attacks a conservative estimate would be 30% of all people die.
that is much higher than crossing a street because to have more street crossing deaths it would basically need to be 1 in 3. and i am pretty sure most people can cross the street more than 3 times without being killed.
and yes i am sorry for the sarcasm, it was rather hipocritical of me.
it is certanately not an unknow quantity, there are records of the number of people killed and if you look at the amount of terrorist attacks that take place, ie: suicide bombings, sept 11, oklahoma city, etc.etc. there are alot more deaths per terrorist attack than there are people killed crossing the street per street crossing. i dont know the exact number but i would say in terrorist attacks a conservative estimate would be 30% of all people die.
that is much higher than crossing a street because to have more street crossing deaths it would basically need to be 1 in 3. and i am pretty sure most people can cross the street more than 3 times without being killed.
and yes i am sorry for the sarcasm, it was rather hipocritical of me.
Kevo
Active member
does that change the reason why the americans were dancing in the streets?
They were relieved that they weren't going to have to do a full scale invasion of Japan. WW2 was over, they could get on with their lives.
Almost all of the population of Japan would have been killed had we committed to a full scale land invasion. The population was ordered to fight to the last person, and most of them believed that the emperor was a living God. Look it up.
US casualties would have been well over 1 million. Japanese casualties would have been at least 10 times those that were killed by the 2 bombs.
Inevitable defeat of Germany? That means germany was going to be defeated in the future at the time that we defeated Japan. Germany fell roughly 3 months before Japan.
And we did wait for a response, but Japan didn't surrender. The bombs were not out of spite, it had to happen or the outcome would have been much, much worse.
And yeah, I'm biased. My grandpa was in the pacific theatre. He would have been in the invasion force had we invaded mainland Japan, and I probably wouldn't be here right now if that had happened.
They were relieved that they weren't going to have to do a full scale invasion of Japan. WW2 was over, they could get on with their lives.
Almost all of the population of Japan would have been killed had we committed to a full scale land invasion. The population was ordered to fight to the last person, and most of them believed that the emperor was a living God. Look it up.
US casualties would have been well over 1 million. Japanese casualties would have been at least 10 times those that were killed by the 2 bombs.
Inevitable defeat of Germany? That means germany was going to be defeated in the future at the time that we defeated Japan. Germany fell roughly 3 months before Japan.
And we did wait for a response, but Japan didn't surrender. The bombs were not out of spite, it had to happen or the outcome would have been much, much worse.
And yeah, I'm biased. My grandpa was in the pacific theatre. He would have been in the invasion force had we invaded mainland Japan, and I probably wouldn't be here right now if that had happened.
will987654321
Active member
That was a completely made up figure, not based on any expert military predictions. It was a number made up by Truman or whoever to gain support for the bombs.
RKF
Active member
i have said it before and i will say it again.. yes we have.
its like bush sayng those that harbour terrorists are just as bad.
do we not have amazing political relations with the US?
and then the fact that canada does alot of bad things in the international economy, it is simply because our population is so small that it isnt as noticeable as the USAs. how many of your cloths are made locally and sweatshop free, do you only drink fair trade coffee, and fair trade chocolate? i highly doubt it. so you me and every other canadian does contribute quite alot to causeing poverty and suffering in other parts of the world simply so that we can save a couple bucks.
its like bush sayng those that harbour terrorists are just as bad.
do we not have amazing political relations with the US?
and then the fact that canada does alot of bad things in the international economy, it is simply because our population is so small that it isnt as noticeable as the USAs. how many of your cloths are made locally and sweatshop free, do you only drink fair trade coffee, and fair trade chocolate? i highly doubt it. so you me and every other canadian does contribute quite alot to causeing poverty and suffering in other parts of the world simply so that we can save a couple bucks.
MitchPee
Active member
Listen, you don't have to preach to me about WW2 history. I know damn well why people were dancing in teh streets, but the principal is the same. The outcome is different. We won the war they didn't...flat out.
We weren't going to have to do a full scale invasion. Like I said, Hirihito was commanding them to do this so they would stay loyale. He wasn't going to let his entire country to die and every political figurehead at that time knew it.
He knew America wouldn't keep Japan. He knew the Russians would. This is why he declared he would fight to the last man. It was a scare tactic if you will.
I have happened to have been privaliged to speak with a man who lived in Japan at the time of WW2. The Japanese culture was VERY strict and was entrusted to believe in their emporer. They didn't see him as a god, they saw him as a leader (you look that up).
There is no way of guessing what US casualties would have been, because I strongly believe once we took Miyonaura we would have forced them into surrender.
No, you have completely misunderstood what I said. I said BEFORE we dropped the bomb. Before we dropped the bomb, Hirihito saw Russian advance and knew it was coming. He was waiting til the last second to surrender.
No we didn't wait for response from Japan. They weren't going to surrender, but we didn't know that at the time. There was a mere 3 days in between the bombings. You can't expect a response in 3 days.
My grandfather also faught in the Pacific Theatre on the Island of Okinawa. He has told me gruesome stories that I can't imagine. He was a great man and I don't taint his honor any by saying a large scale invasion of the Main Islands probably wasn't going to happen.
We weren't going to have to do a full scale invasion. Like I said, Hirihito was commanding them to do this so they would stay loyale. He wasn't going to let his entire country to die and every political figurehead at that time knew it.
He knew America wouldn't keep Japan. He knew the Russians would. This is why he declared he would fight to the last man. It was a scare tactic if you will.
I have happened to have been privaliged to speak with a man who lived in Japan at the time of WW2. The Japanese culture was VERY strict and was entrusted to believe in their emporer. They didn't see him as a god, they saw him as a leader (you look that up).
There is no way of guessing what US casualties would have been, because I strongly believe once we took Miyonaura we would have forced them into surrender.
No, you have completely misunderstood what I said. I said BEFORE we dropped the bomb. Before we dropped the bomb, Hirihito saw Russian advance and knew it was coming. He was waiting til the last second to surrender.
No we didn't wait for response from Japan. They weren't going to surrender, but we didn't know that at the time. There was a mere 3 days in between the bombings. You can't expect a response in 3 days.
My grandfather also faught in the Pacific Theatre on the Island of Okinawa. He has told me gruesome stories that I can't imagine. He was a great man and I don't taint his honor any by saying a large scale invasion of the Main Islands probably wasn't going to happen.
Good point. But what Im saying is that theres a much greater prevalence of 'road deaths' per capita than there are terrorist attacks.
I see what you mean about the quantity, but you cant really classify every terrorist act the same, with the same ratio (1 in 3) because they are all executed differently. For instance, the attack might wound 50 but kill none while a different attack might killl 3 and wound none.
But on the same note I suppose you can say the same of car accidents.
Although I feel more fearful of being killed in a car crash than by terrorists.
I see what you mean about the quantity, but you cant really classify every terrorist act the same, with the same ratio (1 in 3) because they are all executed differently. For instance, the attack might wound 50 but kill none while a different attack might killl 3 and wound none.
But on the same note I suppose you can say the same of car accidents.
Although I feel more fearful of being killed in a car crash than by terrorists.
RKF
Active member
fair enough... i would probably agree that i am more likely to die in car than anything else at this point in my life, but its the fact that IF a terrorist attack were to happen and you were there, you would have a greater chance of death than you normally would in a car.
did you have an account on here before because you look like you know what you are doing during forum debates, but you dont have alot of posts?
did you have an account on here before because you look like you know what you are doing during forum debates, but you dont have alot of posts?
Kevo
Active member
Look, it is all good. This is why I hate these threads. If you and I were talking in person, we would have known in 2 minutes that we both pretty much know what we are talking about.
US casualties would have been catostrophic. I believe that more Japanese civilians would have died had we invaded than had we dropped the bombs.
And one last time, because this is the larger issue-
Americans dancing in the streets after WW2= Happiness that the war was over. The young people dancing in the streets could get on with their lives, start families and the baby boomer generation, etc.
Arabs dancing in the streets after 9-11= Happy because innocent people died, praise be to Allah, the great satan has been stabbed.
These are totally different reasons
US casualties would have been catostrophic. I believe that more Japanese civilians would have died had we invaded than had we dropped the bombs.
And one last time, because this is the larger issue-
Americans dancing in the streets after WW2= Happiness that the war was over. The young people dancing in the streets could get on with their lives, start families and the baby boomer generation, etc.
Arabs dancing in the streets after 9-11= Happy because innocent people died, praise be to Allah, the great satan has been stabbed.
These are totally different reasons
Yeah, I agree with you on that. You probably would die in a terrorist attack, but the odds of being ivolved in one are so astronomically, ridiculously huge that, to my mind, I dont really consider it a viable threat.
This is the only account Ive got here. I just like arguing with people and ridiculing stupidity.
This is the only account Ive got here. I just like arguing with people and ridiculing stupidity.
whattheshit
Active member
yea and you must be a special education student to so badly confuse it.
you are only thinking of the chance that you die if peterbrough blows up. you aren't thinking of the chances that a terrorist would blow up the nuclear plant. and what he was saying is what are the chances that you get hit by a car crossing the road. a lot greater.
you are only thinking of the chance that you die if peterbrough blows up. you aren't thinking of the chances that a terrorist would blow up the nuclear plant. and what he was saying is what are the chances that you get hit by a car crossing the road. a lot greater.