Skis Scraping PVC Rail
- Thread starter teflon66
- Start date
bensmullen
New member
You need to detune your edges under foot.
bensmullen
New member
You need to detune your edges under foot.
DominatorJacques
Active member
13496684:teflon66 said:
You have an edge high ski. It's not just detuning. The edge should have a long bevel and it needs to be smooth also where the edge meets the plastic.
I have lots of tuning videos. This one will show you want a "long bevel" is.
[video]https://youtu.be/H96_dAgeHRs[/video]
DominatorJacques
Active member
If you watch and LISTEN to my videos in the entirety (no skipping) , then you will know it all pretty much.
That's going to take you a long time, but if you like skiing and want to continue for years the info is invaluable.
You are going to need to search "tuning" and "waxing" at my channel as I have hundreds of videos.
Best to you. We all start from the same place so don't feel bad about asking questions.
Good people will help you out. Don't worry about the haters.
That's going to take you a long time, but if you like skiing and want to continue for years the info is invaluable.
You are going to need to search "tuning" and "waxing" at my channel as I have hundreds of videos.
Best to you. We all start from the same place so don't feel bad about asking questions.
Good people will help you out. Don't worry about the haters.
DominatorJacques
Active member
13496710:Rsimpson said:
That's not "jacking" You need to be sure like I said the the entire base edge is smooth where it meets the plastic. This is way overlooked by most. A machine can't do it.
I highly recommend that all rail, box riding skis have a "long bevel"
Check my video. I show and tell you how. I also talk about it in my four part video called "How To Wax and Deburr Skis"
Like I said, my videos are long, but the learning is in the talk which never stops.
One needs to LISTEN to and watch the entire videos without skipping!
Take care man!
DominatorJacques
Active member
The other cause is a damage base edge that has a hanging burr.
Let me see if I can upload you a photo.
Let me see if I can upload you a photo.
DominatorJacques
Active member
Here is another view.
This is from tuning. The rest of the process will remove the hanging burrs.
Too often a tune will be left like this. Machines are the worst for this type of stuff.
Swandog7
Active member
You need to detune your skis. Honestly i don't bevel them because I'm afraid ill mess up and they aren't completely necessary. I usually detune UNDERFOOT 2 INCHES IN FRONT AND BEHIND MY BINDING. I use a: File (metal is preferred), a diamond stone if you got it, and a gummy stone (usually soft, especially if you have a diamond stone, get a hard one if you don't have a diamond stone) and you basically just slide these underfoot on your edges. I wet my diamond stone usually when I use it. There a bunch of videos how to do this online. You can find all of this online at REI.com and its like $12 for the gummy stone, around $20 for a diamond stone, and like $15 for a file but you might have one at your house that works.
DominatorJacques
Active member
13496744:teflon66 said:
You funny! I told you watch the whole video! Don't frickin' skip any part!
You don't need to tune your skis if you don't want to, but the base edge needs to be smooth from the outer edge to the inner edge.
Do what you want. Eventually you reap what you sow.
Hell, just take some sandpaper on a block and go to town on those bitches!
I don't say that as a dis either. Just something is better than nothing.
Really though at some point like i said, if you plan on skiing for years it's good to learn this stuff.
Tuning stuff cost money, but a shop cost money too, but they don't do it half as good as you can once you learn.
One key to riding rails, tubes, boxes etc. is having a smooth base edge. No matter how good the tune. A "Long Bevel" will help to prolong the base edge from cracking too.
Sure, she is going to crack at some point no matter what you do.
It's like this. When metal is hammered, it becomes whats called 'work hardened".
The harder it gets, the easier it is to crack!
Really just trying to help you here. You are still young and sooner you learn how to do this stuff well, the better you will ski too. Is that not what you want?
A messed up ski will greatly hinder your progression!
DominatorJacques
Active member
Here you go. Pay close attention to what I say right here.
The video should start at the proper time if it works.
[video]https://youtu.be/q-p1vYXQOOM?t=16m43s[/video]
The video should start at the proper time if it works.
[video]https://youtu.be/q-p1vYXQOOM?t=16m43s[/video]
DominatorJacques
Active member
It did not work. Use this link.
littleman34
Active member
yo just take a hand-saw to em
DominatorJacques
Active member
13496753:Swandog7 said:
Swandog, you know some stuff for sure. Now it's time for you to get with the program!
Don't be afraid to bevel your base edges! Shine that crap on about when you hear "don't touch your base edges"! Bla vla bla!
If one is a racer and wants instant engagement that's another story. No matter waht the base edge needs to be burr free. Don't worry about the deep scratches, just smooth out the high spots!
Most here are park skiers.
A park ski works very well with a 2 degree base bevel. One can still carve a solid turn like that, just need to roll it over a bit more and have a sharp edge on the tip and tails for about a third of the length there. Like you say, the under foot part needs to be rounded. That part will not bite. It's a compromise. Either one wants a pure carving ski, or something in-between.
The 2 degree base bevel will allow the ski to be very "playful". In other words it will spin around and not catch an edge. Butters will be easy.
Also the base shape makes a huge difference in how a ski handles. All this has to be flat shit is just that! A playful ski will be more convex (boat shaped). A ski that will not be "playful" and engage fast will be flat and often concave (low sopt) near the tips and tails.
Therefore a killer park ski shoud not be stone ground flat! It should be "long beveled" and then steel scraped to the edges to create a more rounded base shape.
Bla bla bla! Rock on Swandog, and yes, I gave you my vote for MOTM!
Swandog7
Active member
13496781:DominatorJacques said:
Thanks fam! I normally don't because I don't know how and don't feel like figuring it out because I don't have any complaints on how smooth I slide. I don't recommend it to him if he's still looking for videos on how to do it considering he could bevel to hard or do something wrong. If he takes the time to figure it out I'd recommend it for sure, I don't take the time to do it because I'm fine with what i got
DominatorJacques
Active member
13496782:teflon66 said:
Do you know what type of base your skis have? Sintered, extruded or some sintruded 50-50 BS?
DominatorJacques
Active member
13496783:Swandog7 said:
Swan, you are awesome and honest.
Main thing is like you say. For you, your skis are fine and you like them!
Have you ever checked them for base bevel angle? They may be greater than one degree right now. They also may have some convex shape to them.
In the future when you get some new sticks you may find you need to work on that a bit.
My belief is that most ski billed as a park ski are going to have a pretty strong base bevel from the factory. Still one needs to smooth underfoot as you have stated for sure.
When burrs are created from hitting burss on a feature or whatever, those burss need to be addressed by smoothing out the high spots. One must work on the base edge to accomplish that.
Be good Dog, and rock on!
DominatorJacques
Active member
13496806:teflon66 said:
Very good! An extruded base will not "take up" wax! The wax stays at the surface and goes away real fast. Thus they can burn easy! The burn is just micro hairs. Those can not be removed with a plastic scraper. Wax hold the hairs down, but as soon as the wax wears off, there you go. As you saw in my video you need to do just as the video says, but be advised it's still an extruded base! Either don't wax at all, or you need to wax every day. A rub on wax may be all you need with those. A rub on wax needs to be buffed out really hard as to not leave any waxy build up left on the base. Try Dominator Graphite Zoom wax. It is a rub or iron on wax.
Here is a link to the site. http://www.dominatorwax.com/
Best to you!
maxstr
Active member
13496710:Rsimpson said:
13496815:DominatorJacques said:
a little off topic but how would u dull your blades? Im going to a jail jam this weekend and I just got some new skis and th blades are really sharp. If I slide the rail I will just stop on it. I Just need them to be dull right under the boot/bindings. Any advise?
jackdonovan
Active member
13496831:maxstr said:
edges? If by blades you mean edges then you could detune them by taking them to a shop or do it yourself well or sketchily
i learned how to do it well from this vid
[video]https://vimeo.com/32710516[/video]
but I've also heard you can do it with hitting a rock against the edge underfoot, not the best way, and or just using a file
DominatorJacques
Active member
13496842:teflon66 said:
Depends on the conditions. Depends more on the structure of the base for the given conditions.
You have a lot to learn. That's no dis to you. Watch my flippin' videos and don't skip any part! How many times can I tell you that. Most every question you have will be addressed!
DominatorJacques
Active member
13496831:maxstr said:
Seems you answered your own question.
Yes you do, but keep in mind that doing tricks will bring the tips and tails into the mix many times, thus a strong base bevel at least a one degree or better yet a two degree.
Good luck at the contest!
DominatorJacques
Active member
13496809:teflon66 said:
Then do it! You are a park rider! You are not going to "mess up your skis"
Thing is your edges are more than likely already work hardened! It's going to be near impossible to file that shit.
That's why it is so IMPORTANT to set the ski up for park when it is new and the steel can still be worked!
When you grow up more, you will understand. I have. been working with steel since I was a kid. I worked on a farm from the age of five years old. My father taught me a lot. I did welding and fabrication. I learned metallurgy. Then I learned more in school as well.
Good luck to you! Don't think I being mean. It's just don't be a chicken! How frickin' long you think those used skis gonna' last anyway! Just do something and you will learn.
Buy some shitty old skis at the second hand store and practice from my videos.
Don't need to ski them! Just learn how to file, stone and scrape etc.
DominatorJacques
Active member
13496847:jackdonovan said:
Hey, that's not a bad explanation and video there.
Important! You need to use fluid with a stones! I saw he had a glass of maybe just water, and that's better than nothing for sure, but he said nothing about that.
Also he did not address a base bevel. Again most skis are going to have a one degree base bevel from the factory.
I give the video good style points although short and basic it gets to the basic theme!
Poikenz
Active member
Just get a base grind to make everything nice and flat then take a $2 sanding sponge at a 45 to the edge from the toe to the heel of your binding, you only need to do a couple passes. A file or stone is better for finishing or maintaining your edges once they start getting beat, but they are more expensive.
If you are catching towards the end of the rail or before you try to spin, there might be something up with the way you set if that is the only time it happens.
Sintruded or a mix isn't a thing as sintered/ extruded are processes for making the material. The terms are used because the process will define certain characteristics of the material.
If you are catching towards the end of the rail or before you try to spin, there might be something up with the way you set if that is the only time it happens.
13496790:DominatorJacques said:
Sintruded or a mix isn't a thing as sintered/ extruded are processes for making the material. The terms are used because the process will define certain characteristics of the material.
DominatorJacques
Active member
13496890:teflon66 said:
Yes. Actually I should say that a minuscule amount of wax may be absorbed.
That's pretty much none, but it will help, just won't last very long at all.
That's why I told you about rub on waxes.
Dominator also makes some paste waxes that may work well with an extruded base as they bond quite well. One year when I broke my leg and could not wax my wife's skis, I taught her how to use the paste. Although I prefer a iron wax, I never saw any burn on her skis that season.
Here is what I used: http://www.dominatorwax.com/products/momentium-warm
DominatorJacques
Active member
13496895:maxstr said:
Stones clog up. Be it diamond or otherwise. I use a 50-50 mix of water and DENATURED alcohol. That's the ticket. The surface tension of the water is then reduced and the stones don't get so clogged up.
If you watch my "New Ski Tuning and Base Preparation" videos you won't be asking anymore questions. You will be the one answering your friends!
Hey, we all start from the same place when we don't know. That's why I have made the most extensive ski tuning videos on line. That's why they are so frickin'l long!
Go back and read the thread! I made these to help people like you for free!
Rock on!
teflon66
Member
If I detune my edges once, will I need to detune them again?
If not, I'm probably just going to bring my skis to a store and have them detune, as there are no detuning materials in stock at the moment.
While I'm at the store, I'll get some wax that doesn't require an iron and ask them if my skis need any further repair.
If not, I'm probably just going to bring my skis to a store and have them detune, as there are no detuning materials in stock at the moment.
While I'm at the store, I'll get some wax that doesn't require an iron and ask them if my skis need any further repair.
DominatorJacques
Active member
13496917:teflon66 said:
Once you have done it you only need to smooth the burs that you might get for some reason.
Sounds like you have a good plan of attack now! One step at a time.
Again, Best to you! Pray for snow!
DominatorJacques
Active member
13496898:Poikenz said:
Bonk! No, don't get a base grind to make a park ski flat! That's for racers and carving only. Besides the whole must be absolutely flat deal is pure poppycock!
I have been tuning skis for years. After a stone grind a ski is going to need a TON of work to bring it up to speed again! Peaks need to be scraped smooth with steel. Valleys need to be brushed with stiff stainless. Ski needs to be run over with fiber pads as well during the process.
A park ski is best when it is base high.
And don't tell me about bases. I know all about them my friend. I have been skiing for over 45 frickin' years!
Poikenz
Active member
13496938:DominatorJacques said:
But you were wrong, that is why I told you about bases. I appreciate your techniques, you obviously have experience, but some things you say don't seem to always make a whole lot of sense.
A base grind can be done on any ski, what you going on about? If you, or the shop you bring them to knows what they are doing there will be no problem. I heard you talk poorly of them, but if done correctly it will be fine. You also have to remember that we are talking about park skis, your 1/10th of a second isn't going to matter. A base high ski might sound ideal, but you still need to carve. I'd prefer flat, but to each his own.
Just tell the kid to buy a 10 cent sheet of sandpaper and be done with it (because really it is all you need for a detune to work). No need to be fancy.
DominatorJacques
Active member
13496951:Poikenz said:
I was wrong? You need to quote where i was wrong please.
Maybe you need to read the thread. I know when i don't read the above it's easy to put my foot in my mouth.
To each his own. Like I said, all this crap about absolute flat is pure BS!
Go Back and read, I'm not going to type it all over again.
I already told the kid who asked and started the thread. I said at one point.
"Hell, just take some sandpaper on a block and go to town on those bitches!"
BTW I never said shit about any 10/th of seconds! I'm talking park skis here.
Be good brother. Pray for snow.
DominatorJacques
Active member
^ from above my friend. I said this.
"Also the base shape makes a huge difference in how a ski handles. All this has to be flat shit is just that! A playful ski will be more convex (boat shaped). A ski that will not be "playful" and engage fast will be flat and often concave (low sopt) near the tips and tails."
"Also the base shape makes a huge difference in how a ski handles. All this has to be flat shit is just that! A playful ski will be more convex (boat shaped). A ski that will not be "playful" and engage fast will be flat and often concave (low sopt) near the tips and tails."
DominatorJacques
Active member
13496765:steeze_boi said:
I love that! A little humor goes a long way.
This is a good example of humor, but no dissing.
Pray for snow Steeze!