skiers vs. skiing pt.1: a new aesthetic

OReJow

OReJow

Active member
we've worked hard. we've come a long way. we still have a long way to go. but think about all that's been done in a few

short years... thank the pros, thank the filmmakers, thank harvey, and thank each other for bringing skiing back to life, and

with it, the new skiing culture.

we are the new culture. we are the future. we are the only ones who know this.

we are skiers.

not 'freestyle skiers,' 'freeskiers,' not 'newschool skiers.' we are SKIERS. the very mention of skis should imply FREE and

FREEDOM. no other distinctions ought to be made.

when was the last time you heard somebody say 'i'm a freestyle snowboarder'? ever? not likely. because snowboard culture has

advanced to the state where snowboarding IS freestyle. snowboarding is STYLE. on a groomer or off a booter, snowboarding is

snowboarding. pow or park. snowboarding just is.

we will get there.

skiing will be skiing, soon enough. we'll be able to say we are skiers without immediatly having to explain ourselves, because

images of cliff hucks, stylee spins, and railslides will have already come to the person's mind. we will be the skiers, and

the joeys, gapers, seniors, and yuppies on the hill will just be an afterthought. a minor nuisance. unimportant. because we

will define the sport. not them.

we now have guys on the inside...

armada. let them succeed where others have failed... in making skis for skiers. core skiers. the skiers who are going to

make this sport fun and interesting and new. armada will be bringing out products from WITHIN our culture... not the other way

around... not a corporation trying to figure out how to sell us skis. they don't have to figure us out. they are us.

LINE. Line is us too. but LINE is at a crossroads. do we keep making skis for ourselves? or do we try to affect greater

change in skiing by bringing our skis to the masses? we all know what they have chosen. i believe this to be the correct

decision. rather than be seperate from skiing, a faction, we will take over skiing. it's a nice idea anyway. but LINE is

failing. LINE is not bringing out our culture. LINE is giving the masses what they think they want. the non-twin. last

year, the darkside (their best performing, and coolest named ski) became a carver. its once enormous tail shrunk to miniscule

proportions. why? so it carves better? LINE, aparently, does not want people to carve switch. which, for expert skiers, is

about the only way to make carving the blues fun. what happened? why not create a true twin-tip carving ski? sell it to

people who want to carve, and let them discover the freedom to go switch. let the tail give them the courage, or the idea to

try a run in the pipe. besides, a twin gives better float and smoother turns through the occasional pow anyway.

non-twins should be the minority. how often do you see non-twinned snowboards? and no, it's not because all snowboarders ride

park, obviosly. even carving boards have 2 tips. directional geometry, perhaps, but still a twin, still with the option to go

switch. still with the FREEDOM.

but LINE has chosen to go with the non-twin as the ski to fund their future. a carving ski. fine.

which brings me to my main point of this whole long rant....

why does it have to be so fucking ugly?

why would LINE, a company from within our culture, a culture of SKIERS, decide to put mediocre corporate graphics on their new

line of carving skis? why, when all of their other skis have creative and expressive graphics? i know what you are thinking... 'who cares?' right? it's just graphics, who cares what they look like? well, skiing is a sport, but our new skiing culture goes so far beyond. it's a lifestyle. it's music. it's art. it's fashion. it's everything. our equipment, skis, should be a reflection on our culture, whatever their purpose (park, pow, or carving) it doesn't matter. props to K2 for putting out some truly amazing graphics for and by skiers. the PE and the pistol, i think, are some of the most successful graphic concepts ever put on skis. those skis are going to help define our culture. that is the future. creative. raw. expressive.

people will take notice. they will take notice of the skis on the rack, just like they take notice when we throw down in the park. people will notice, and they will be intrigued, and then we will take over. then skiing will be skiing.

who wrote the rule that carving skis can't have dope graphics?

who are the ones telling people that just because they don't ride twins, their sticks have to be lame?

LINE is the one company who had the power to change that. they fucked up. just like every other company.

salomon fucked up. k2 fucked up. rossi fucked up. dynastar fucked up. head fucked up. elan is just fucked. every ski company that puts out ugly corporate boring looking skis is insulting our culture and perpetuating the myth that skiing is lame.

and i bet they don't even know why? because they are carvers? sorry i just don't get it. let's take a look at some carving snowboards. they don't look shitty. why are ski companies so convinced that skiers want but ugly logo covered commercial bullshit graphics? is that what we want? is that what anyone wants?

time to take control of our own culture.

we won't let skiing be lame.

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i didn't come here with pants, and i'm not leaving with pants
 
exhibit A:

cb.gif'


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i didn't come here with pants, and i'm not leaving with pants
 
see what i'm saying? i know it seems superficial, and not like a big deal, but i consider myself an artist, and i am concerned with the way things look. i know most of us appreciate art, and would like that reflected in our sport

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i didn't come here with pants, and i'm not leaving with pants
 
ok. the thing with skiing is in order for it to become just skiing a whole generation of people must die out. by the time this happens some new sport will likely be rising and the plateau shall mean less

You don't know shit about fuck, my man-Robin Williams

See all y'all at Session 3 of High North
 
SKI....yes i ski

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Holy shit man, i just read that whole thing, and you have brought out a really good point. I feel the same way and I grant you one of the most thoughtful people on NS.

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HIGH NORTH SESSION 2!!!
 
true... but in a way you are implying that the skis are the skier... hey what would u say if a guy/girl through a super smooth 7 or something like that but with carving skis... I raise a good point but I believe that the main focus that you put out still stands.

dodgeball and nuts = a few guys on the floor crying and many laughing

skiing or sex... good question????

 
no he's saying that boarders use there equipment to reflect how they live and what they live, so why not skis. i mean line has done this a bit but not to the same extent as boards, that was a good read, put it in articles to

Seize the carp
 
Well said and many good points! Newschoolers.com needs more people like you.

________________________

Andrew

Like warm butter on your breakfast toast

*Proud member of Newschoolers for Peace*

 
Everyone always assumes I snowboard if I mention something about a halfpipe or rail or jump. It gets old explaining that skiers can do that stuff too.

My girlfriend told me to shove my skis up my ass
 
hell yea, thats the way it should be

------------------------------------------------------------ I'm outta Fairfield, CT the home of apple pie, crack cocaine and the thigh master
 
who am i? what am i? what is this? where isn't me? this isn't that, or is it not? here...try some.

''And if you ever want to get a deal, why don't ya either OD on skill pills or steal my real to reel.

Most of y'all MC's ain't tight as you should be when I'm tighter than the jeans that your hoochie chick's coochie prints.''
 
k2...noones going to summarize that shit for you, read it on youre own. its good shit.

so fuck you too

sub honcho of ECVM
 
Yeah so many people think I snowboard too because I talk about pipe comps or sliding rails or whatver. Sometimes I just dont care and dont even correct them... Is this wrong?

__________________

A friend will help you move.

A really good friend will help you move a body.

Bombing for Peace is like Screwing for Virginity.
 
Wow, I couldn't agree more with that post. Like you said, Line had the chance to do something big... and they fucked it up. I lost all respect for Line when I heard they were making carving skis.

Pick up an old freeze or freeskier magazine, flip through it, and find a Line ad. What was the slogan? Something like 'Real Twin Tip Skis' or something core that let the generation of skiers feel like someone was on their side. By making carving skis Line is completely abandoning their core market (the market they relied on to get started) and I am appalled that anyone from our generation supports what they are doing right now.

As far as the other things brought up in the post I do agree that Armada is a step in the right direction. I think what skiing needs is for this generation to mature. The top athletes (up until guys like JP) haven't had the business sense to change things. Only time will tell but things can either go incredibly well or very badly. Lets hope for the best and do our parts to support the industry we love.

'...if it weren't for harvey we would all be in the freeze forum.'

 
I don't think that was all that great.. the only reason your dissing line is because their creating a non-twin. How does this not progress the sport? If anything it helps by selling more products, and getting more cash to put back into the research and technology of ALL their skis. This means better twins, and better skis for everyone. You say that we will all be in the newschool genre and that will be all skiers.. There are tons of other skiers such as recreational and racers who will be skiing in the future and they will need equipment also..

'Don't like hesh - Don't like rap - kicked ol' sally cos she fat - I'm a jerk I'm a punk took a shower cos I stunk - smoked a bong killed a cat - had my nuts attacked by rats dad got nude - I wore a thong - for a hobby I make bombs' Tom DeLounge

 
/\ are you saying that JP Auclair sucks or are you saying that it sucks that he hurt himself so bad. If you think he sucks, check his segment in Propaganda, best segment of the movie.

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HIGH NORTH SESSION 2!!!
 
you missed the point. of course there will always be recreational skiers. but their recreational skis they use should be based on toned down freestyle designs... not toned down race designs. (like snowboarding)

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i didn't come here with pants, and i'm not leaving with pants
 
it's all about filtering the best talent to the top, and giving people the tools to learn and grow with. how many people start snowboarding with a flat-tailed alpine board? none. people start snowboarding already equipped with the tools for freestyle / freeriding. and as soon as they buy that snowboard, they feel like they are part of a culture. they have supported something that is good and fun and that supports them and what they want to do on the hill, if its learning how to ride, or BC, or park.

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i didn't come here with pants, and i'm not leaving with pants
 
well said, well said

Skiing is like sex... when its good, its soooooo good, and when its bad...its still good.

 
The reason behind the ugly carving skis is simple;

they looked good to the people making them.

The whole image of snowboarding is 'hip' and chique and the graphics designers try to cater to the taste of young adults, because that is the person that is the generally attracted to it.

Most skis are made by old people who try to cater to other old people. The graphics that we think are ugly, to them may be beautiful.

Eat. Sleep. Breathe. Ski.

 
Nice post, but are people blasting LINE because A) Twintips make up approx. 2% of the ski market, and they NEED to make and sell those carving skis in order to funnel profits back into their team?(In comparison, companies like Salomon funnel most of their 'team' money into ski racing), and B) Based on their subjective views of the graphics on LINE's new carving skis? A nice read, but there's more to it then graphics...a lot more. Someone else mentionned a generation change, and that's a lot more important than the graphics on a ski, or whether or not LINE is still 'core' because they now make a a range of 'carving skis'.

'I've had some good sex, but it's not very reliable. You can't phone up the sex report, ya know? You can phone up the snow report'...Crucial Mike
 
i know its not all about the graphics. i understand that graphics aren't anything compared to how a ski performs. i'm just suggesting that we have a lot more control than we realize about our sport, that includes the actual skiing, but also how it is marketed, how it is perceived, and yes how it looks. the fact that we are on this site shows that we care, and the fact that some of us spend waaaaaaaaay too much time on this site shows that some people care alot. it shows that skiing is more than just an activity to us. its a way of life. and companies need to realize that, and start listening, or they are going to miss out, and the armada's and the 4frnt's of the world will come out on top. I just used shitty graphics as an example of how certain companies don't respect newschool culture, and some do. who do you want to buy skis from?

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i didn't come here with pants, and i'm not leaving with pants
 
I see what you're talking about. and last year I noticed a huge trend in ski designs. slowly the skis are getting slightly twinned, the thing is that in the past a twin tipped ski was never a performance ski I think with the advent of newer skis that can perform in and out of the park you're gonna see a huge growth in twin tips. an extra 1-2 inches that is turned up at the tail doesn't really effect performance and I think ski manufaturers are going to/have already taken notice to that and slowly make all of their skis twinned (to some extent)

The reason why skiing is so stuck is that freeskiing had lost so much of it's potential customers to snowboarding and the only people going into freeskiing were people that were already skiers( racers, bump skiers etc.). So it will/has been a slow start because you've got kids in racing programs that occationally hit the park, yet they pay to be in a racing program every year. we tried to set up a freeski program at my hill, you know what we got? people that didn't know how to ski let alone hit a jump there just isn't enough people out there that want to freeski. The only way that the image of skiing can be changed is if more people participate in the freeskiing side of it, like snowboarding where you'll find the majority of snowboarders sitting in the park on an average night. Only when the majority of people in the sport change to freeskiing will ski makers respond. right now they sell more in rental equipment than they do twins. so basically, keep throwin shit in the park, ski switch on the steeps, try and grow your local scene because people will take notice and things will change.

-Mike

Dude I was fine before you tried to turn me into a cake - me after ralphing after being antiqued
 
and i don't mean to pick on LINE any more than anyone else, but LINE's situation is unique in 2 ways:

1.) they wrote a lot of checks they couldn't cash. (i.e true to the movement, twins only, blah blah blah)

2.) they were in better position to effect positive change, and they pussed out.

i'm not saying LINE is a shitty company or anything (well, no more than any other company) i'm just saying they misread their situation, and now they are becoming everything they were against.

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i didn't come here with pants, and i'm not leaving with pants
 
Man dude i still have mad respect for Line Great team great skis and all that. There carving skis are just a way to put more back into the Twin program look at companies like salomon they have a ton of money to drop on twins and where did that come from ?? carving and race ski sales Lines doing the same but there accually going to put money back in to twin tip design and make them better and more afforable for all of us just cause they make carving skis doesn't mean they sold out. Line doesn't want to struggle and go under which is what will prolly happen to a company like Armada if they don't diversify. anyways i see the point your making dude but give Line time and alot of people will change their minds about them.

Rock Out With Your COCK Out

'Just when i thought i was out.

They pull me back in!'

 
yeah nice post, but some guy had a good point that line may be using the carving skis just to get more money for their twin tips, and team

--------------------

Creator of the NS Cousin Exchange Program

'Hey look, it's a Zamboni.' My not so intelligent friend after he saw the Loon Gondola

Stealth Ninja of the Silent Army

Viva la Resistance!

 
Please see my reply message at the top of the board named 'A message from Jason Levinthal'

Thanks,

J

 
i understand coyote's message and its right but to a certain extent. by saying salomon, head, rossi, etc. fucked up is wrong, because regular skis and just skiing downhill came b4 we did, we simply started a new generation, so with a new generation must come a new company making skis for us. i do agree that line should have stayed for twins only however if its tru that their carving skis are just there to put $ into twin boards then its ok. hes got it right that graphics do show who we are, so when u have some lame ass regular stripe with different colors and the name it shows who u are. we're not boring. we're not plain. we're not regular. we're somethin different that needs to express its self and get out into our communities.

 
Coyote is right in a lot of ways and I'd like everyone to pay attention to the part where he says that we have control. Not only about the way we ski but the way skiing is marketing and seen by other people. We as skiers do have control but the problem is that we either don't know it yet or don't have a solidifying way to show it. There is power in numbers and this community has a lot of people in it.

Skiing is a lifestyle and it is OUR lifestyle, so we have as much right as anyone to determine where it goes in the future. My advice would be to support the companies that you believe in and know are supporting the industry and hopefully things will turn out for the best.

'...if it weren't for harvey we would all be in the freeze forum.'

 
we have power in that we can control the industry. if we get enough people to not buy a certain ski it will be taken off the line and never put back again. with a large number of people agreeing all on one idea its sure that we can change it, we've just gotta put it into action. its more complex than most people realize. is there any way to keep armada a manufacturing only twin boards?? is it possible to bring line back to making only twin boards??

 
EDIT: According to J. Levinthal, that carving ski will not actually be made, so I took down the pic, and sorry for the mix up on that issue.

But, my point still stands, and I know we all hope the REAL skis are something we can be proud of having line represent newschool to the masses with.

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i didn't come here with pants, and i'm not leaving with pants
 
man.. good thread. but this is just your point of view. I recognize freeskiing is growing. but it will never 'own' the market. like I'm not trying to be a pescimist(sp?), but what the main point of this thread is saying is that companies should stay true to one aspect of skiing. As coyote said earlier, recreational skis should be tailored as twins, why??? whats the point of having a twin if your not A) taking off or B) landing switch. there isn't.. Basically, not one ski can be made for alllll over the mountain at an expert level, and ski companies want the cash and want to tap the entire market..

'Don't like hesh - Don't like rap - kicked ol' sally cos she fat - I'm a jerk I'm a punk took a shower cos I stunk - smoked a bong killed a cat - had my nuts attacked by rats dad got nude - I wore a thong - for a hobby I make bombs' Tom DeLounge

 
mattster, i was clearly complimenting him. are you a fool? everybody loves me here, EVERYBODY. i am like.. most popular ns.com member seven years running, so stop being ridiculous. am i right? am i right?

 
This thread must survive... Great post!

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n. pl. skis

One of a pair of long flat runners of plastic, metal, or wood that curve upward in front and may be attached to a boot for gliding or traveling over snow.

Happy Hucking!
 
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