Skiers don't have any control.

Detective

Detective

Active member
It has become pretty clear that this year especially skiers don't have any control over their status with a company. It's all about to change with Armada I hope, but the past two years have been a junk show for treatment.

In many other sports the athlete says jump and the sponsor says how high. This is the case with a few athletes, but not many in skiing. The trickle down for a lot of other sports is way larger. Why?? I honestly don't know, maybe people just don't give a fuck about skiing? Maybe the market research is that this 'revolution' is a fad. I hope thats not the way it is, I know I'm gonna keep doing it.

The usual excuse from a sponsor is 'budget cuts' or some other similar money bullshit line. Why are there so many 'budget' cuts in a sport that is aparently booming at an exponential rate. For the first time in years whistler/blackcomb season passes were at more skiers than snowboarders. Clearly the sport really is growing, each one of those people has to buy equipment at one point or another. The money MUST be there. Is it all a ploy to keep control and scrape dollars here and there? who knows, but as long as people are informed that athletes deserve better treatment and deserve not to be the objects that they maintimes are...we can make this work.

Here are a couple cases which stand out.

Chris Turpin had a good season wouldnt you say? wsi champion (everyone knows this), us open finalist, featured in volume stereotype, article in freeze tons of published shots a million other things. You would think someone that gets that kind of publicity and essentially thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for a company would have a fairly solid place there. As you all know this is not the case. Turpin got injured and miraculously line's 'budget' was cut.

Another athlete whom I will not mention had a very good relationship with the biggest company in eyewear and getting bigger in clothing ( you take a guess who) and this person got an offer from another company of 5 TIMES what that original company offered for that season. This person really liked their original company and gave them the opourtunity to counter offer and said that they would sign if they offered half of what the other company offered. Since this company felt so big, they wouldn't do it. this person now has a new eyewear sponsor and is in my opinion a major loss for the first company.

These two members of the freesking community are at the very top I assure you, and yet none of them are safe. I don't think we even need to talk about the way mike douglas was messed around with.

So what do we need? We need more Armada's. We need more companies in general that aren't out to make the biggest dollar but are making stuff because they like what they are doing. It will be interesting to see how the season goes for Armada and how the attitudes change when the skiers stop taking this bullshit.

______________________________________

'I don't know why I come to this fucking place, the kids are such assholes' - Anthony B
 
So true man. We need to move towards snowboarding not only in style but in industury. Pick up any snowboard mag and compare it to the latest Freeze or Freeskier and you acn tell how much more devloped and rider dependant their sport is. I think in time skiing will change for the better but for now we do need more Armandas (if what i have heard about armanda is true).

All i need is one blunt, one page and one pen, one prayer - Nas
 
Wow man, that was fucking interesting. I hope things do turn for the better and the athletes stop getting treated like financial variables.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

-Dan

''Condoms are for pirates! Condoms are for pirates!''

 
what make armada so great besides all the hipe? line is a skier ownd companey isnt it? what will make armada so much diffrent from line in the long run?

'Dude dont worry its impossible to get hurt on this hip' My words of confidence to stephan waldie just before he hits the hip and brakes his coller bone/sholderblade.
 
well said man, i used to think salomon was the only company was bad, but seems everyone is at it, but i want to know who the eyewear companies and that guy was

_________________________________________________________

Proud Leader Of OA-a group for those addicted to oakley products.
 
yeah, but what can we do to change it?

Dan Maguire

Co-Founder of the Maple Valley Freeride Team, both members going west next season!

Go Red Sox

How many snowboarders does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

10, 1 to do it, and 9 to say 'I can do that.'

'Dude, we're sick. He's pretty sick, but his muscles aren't as big as mine, so you know.'-CR Johnson
 
but ya that was very interesting well said... I think almost any big company will drop people that shouldnt be droped, cuz all companys want is mony for them selves, they want to gain as much as they can without spending much... if line wanted to drop some one cuz they where doing good and needed to make more many and desided to drop someone to get a bigger profit who would u pick?

'Dude dont worry its impossible to get hurt on this hip' My words of confidence to stephan waldie just before he hits the hip and brakes his coller bone/sholderblade.
 
Corretion: Doing good and wanted to make more money.

Im sure theres a lot more mistakes in there but oh well

'Dude dont worry its impossible to get hurt on this hip' My words of confidence to stephan waldie just before he hits the hip and brakes his coller bone/sholderblade.
 
who was the skier with the eyewear and clothing? Vincent Dorion?

'Son, when you participate in sporting events, its not whether you

win or loose, its how drunk you get.' - Homer Simpson

'Mmmm, free goo!' - Homer Simpson

'Kill my boss?!? Do I dare live out the american dream?' - Homer Simpson
 
word reedy, i dont know much about the industry, but i know that that needs to change. i am pretty sure he was talking about oakley, cause what other LEADING company makesjackets and stuff

(trust me, the '' things aren't actually there)
 
yeah it has to be oakley, but who recently left oakley?

_________________________________________________________

Proud Leader Of OA-a group for those addicted to oakley products.
 
I totally agree and I posted something to this affect a day or two ago, one way of helping make a change is by supporting those comany's that are supporting their athletes and pushing for this sport to be better, not a company who will treat their riders like shit, by the way he was talking about philou and salomon. I think he means about Armada that they are owned by people who know how shitty this industry can be and they are looking to change that.

line-because skiing needs a future
 
Give it time. Ski companies will eventually see the light. If they don't they will quickly feel the consequences.

I think Reedy's being a little pessimistic. He fails to mention the ginormous contracts held by many other skiers. Candide Thovex gets paid a tremendous amount of money to ski. I feel that as times progresses, skiers will realise their own self worth and be more assertive when bargaining with their sponsors. Skiing is still growing and there is still plenty of room for expansion.

Sure some people lose out occasionally but give them a bit of time and they'll be back on their feet and mroe determined then ever. It's the marketplace at work.

Most ski manufacturers are traditional institutions of skiing (who've been around for long then you are old) who are trying to capitalize on what they regard as a fad akin to freestyle in the 70s. So far Line is the only company who specifically caters to new freestyle. Armada is coming up soon too. As skiing grows and more dollars are pumped, you will see a balance become achieved. The key is to having is balanced in favor of the skiers.

I have more to say but this post is already too big. Read about Game Theory if you truly want to understand all. Game Theory is actually really interesting and will change the way you regard economics and capitalism in general. Take the time to research it. Knowledge is Power.

 
Another thing, I hear that oakley treats their athletes ( most of which on the top of the sport) with alot of respect and they can because they have so much money from other products. A company like salomon needs to get their heads out of their asses and realize that just keeping the same ski year after year and not getting the riders input to make the product that is possibly keeping their company's future secure. For example Dorion wasn't even riding the new 1080's this winter because he didn't like them, what is that having one of your best athletes not even riding your new stuff because they dont like it.

line-because skiing needs a future
 
the only problem is the big companies will always be there, and no matter what, when they have to make money appear, they will. And what if these 'Armadas' really don't have the cash to pay the pros what we know they all deserve? Do they still ride for them for 'the sport' or take the bigger offer from the bigger company just to make ends meat? For the pros, they are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and it def. sucks...

 
I don't know much about this but it seems like skiers need to stand up for themselves more, if some company trys to give you a shit contract, you say no and push it back.

Sure, you'll have no money for a while but if all pro's would do this then the companies would HAVE to start treating them with more respect. The companies know that a good team dramaticlly icreases sales, so you make them pay for them team.

Don't just sign the first thing that comes your way. This of course is alot easier said than done. Anyway, Just what I think.

_DECAfilm
 
nicely put reedy

'I probably sound like a rambaling dork on the blunt commentary track. there use that or I'll fucking kill you fucking guy' -Jibtech

 
Arrrrgghhhhh!!!!! seriously, how retarted can you get??!?!?!!?! reedy was talking about himself!!! and your retarted-er if you think it was philou. oakley loves phil and they said something to the effect of we'll stand by you regardles of whatever when salomon dropped him.

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MC Blowfish: 'Uh-oh, here comes that stupid shark, I better blow up!'
 
yes, this would work for a few of the big pros, but then ski comanies would have less sponsored pros, because they would be spending all the money on a select few riders.

What is the colour of a mirror?
 
Actually it wasn't me. And it wasn't philou, but interesting you bring him up. Also, I am not about to say it but ask anyone who knows. Find out what philou is getting paid from this company that 'will support him no matter what salomon does', I bet it's substantially less this year than last. I don't need to mention who it was and what company it was, because that isn't the point. The point is companys are doing it.

It will stop. Its just a knowledge and a time thing. I can't give time but I can give knowledge and hopefully more people see whats going on and make the change happen...

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'I don't know why I come to this fucking place, the kids are such assholes' - Anthony B
 
the problem (if thats how you see it) is that freesking is not a fad. snowboarding and extreme board sports in general are a fad. thats why the snowboard companies and magazines seem so much more refined. Also, snowboarding is primarily jib influenced whil freeskiing is just a sall sect of a much bigger sport. most skiers are racers or rich tourists who have never heard of anyone in freesking except 'that daredevil jonny moseley'. But i say fuck em. freeskiing is punk rock, freeskiing is underground, and thats the way it should be.

 
Did you say snowboarding is a fad? That's just a stupid thing to say.

I require access to all human knowledge. - Invader Zim
 
I really hope Freeze and Freeskiier don't end up like snowboard mags. Freeze has 30-50 pages of articles. Snowboarding magazines have about 80 pages of ads and 10 of articles.

 
Reedy is right on! Skiing is the only pro sport that treats its pros like shit. Hopefully more companies like Armada start to change things, and over power the 50 year old suits and take the sport in a better direction. But dont forget the filmers and photographers who pay for all there expenses up front only to get screwed when a company backs out of there contract during the middle of editing. Just ask, Jibtech, poorboyz. etc. Even teh photogs have the same problem. My money is definatly spent with those that treat the sport right, and I have and will continue to only send my shots to places taht treat the athleetes fair. I can only hope that others do the same.
http://www.biglines.com/php/photoli...ect=2&keyword=grantgunderson.com&ptimestamp=0
 
Snowboard mags have so much more content than ski mags. I hope that ski mags get as big as snowboard mags, then it might actually take some time to read one.

I require access to all human knowledge. - Invader Zim
 
this detective fella talks like he was just on the cover of freeze or something!!!!crazy kids....

'He got fired? What did he do?'

'He jumped off of the roof again'
 
What is needed is more ski company’s period! When snowboarding was the thing to do and all the lil skier kids were switching over to drag their knuckles, within a couple years every one and their grandma were making snowboards. Now most all the lil snowboard companies were bought out or went under. The companies that survived are the ones you see now, the ones that have figured out how to capitalize on the market. Just wait and see. If the big dog ski companies want to shaft their athletes they will lose them to start up companies like Armada. I hope it happens. I’m sure if hell is raised they will fold, your dollars are the ones that pay the athletes, if you don’t like how a company treats their riders don’t buy there shit. Make them see. Fight it till they pay. Remember this snowboarding didn’t grow up over night. I’m starting to ramble now so that’s my 2 cents.

 
Well said Reedy.

It's pretty shitty how hard it is to get and hold onto sponsorships. I remember when my uncles contract with K2 was up for renewal years ago. They had been doing their part for next to nothing during the previous 5 years or so. K2 just decided that they didn't want to spend the money and lost big because of it (I think there may have been some people who just didn't want to have the twins around anymore too). Phil and Steve went to Volant and the company did very well. Meanwhile, K2's racing results on the world cup and other major circuits went to shit. They didn't want to keep Bode Miller and look what happened. K2 has undergone some shifts and the just signed the twins again. Good move if you ask me. Phil has won something like 27 World Cup events and 4 World Cup titles I believe....Not to mention their performance in the '84 Olympics.

I have to agree with tahoeskier (not about snowboarding being a fad though). The freeride aspect of skiing is a segment of a larger sport. It doesn't take from and influence the majority of the sport, whereas most of snowboarding is focused on the same things. The freeride portion of skiing is in many ways similar to the racing portion of snowboarding. It doesn't carry as much weight as the other aspects yet.

Next time you're on the hill....look around. The amount of the skiing population focusing on freeride is less than the amount of the snowboarding population that you'll find in the park, pipe, backcountry, etc. The backcountry is a little different, but there's more old-time skiers than snowboarders who are just out there to ski lines and have nothing to do with the newschool scene.

Salad is what Food eats. -LoKash
 
droppin names, eh wingnut? holy shit thats cool though, your uncles are some good guys! and can we drop Bode, the little homo who skis on frootbuits? (sorry, another philou shout out)

This rant has brought to you in part by the Gomer corporation. Bringing you quality bablings since January.

MC Blowfish: 'Uh-oh, here comes that stupid shark, I better blow up!'
 
if you think bode is a homo you need to shut up he has way more talent and will probably kick your ass on the slopes(most likely not in the park). but i think the big companys are doing this because freeriding is growing and with that comes power and with power comes almost certain corruption. its happened before

 
I call bullshit.

A. Skiing is not the only sport where athletes are 'treated like shit'. Kobe Bryant...cut by Adidas? Similar situation to Turpin (only with bigger numbers). Kobe asked for a certain amount, and Adidas said that they could not do it. Turpin, yes he has a lot of things coming up, but he asked for more than Line could give in a bad year. I love the guy and wish that he and Line could have come to terms, but he is making more than Line could pay him, so props to that.

B. I have been treated very well by more ski companies than snowboard companies...even the big ones. Just cause they have a clue about how to MARKET their athletes does not mean that they pay athletes or photographers well or on time. The industry is way more complicated than anyone can imagine.

C. I agree that ski companies waste a lot of time and money without doing a great job of supporting their athletes or the media that make the companies cool. Good: Line ad for Dash Longe. Bad: Smith picture of goggle ad. Good: Seth Morrison getting picked up by Oakley for outerwear and the O's whole ad campaign. Bad: Clint Fiala and a random ski boot on the back of FREEZE.

D. Reality check. I do not like a lot of things about this industry, but their are a lot more good people then just Armada. After all, what has Armada done yet?

 
Hopefully that wasn't the way I came accross.

For sure there are way more goods than bads. The people of volkl, Dynastar and Jibculture are all class acts. And there are many more.

I guess I am just seeing the bad and not the goods, but I also felt that it was an important issue to look at.

I have been treated exceptionally well so far and have no complaints but I have also noticed a trend with other people that just wasn't cool in my book.

______________________________________

'I don't know why I come to this fucking place, the kids are such assholes' - Anthony B
 
And I can't stress how much I really appreciate the freeride scene and everything. ESPECIALLY coming from such a shitty background of mogul skiing.

______________________________________

'I don't know why I come to this fucking place, the kids are such assholes' - Anthony B
 
it's because people don' think skiing is cool and the sponsors dont make enuf money to pay pros super high salaries. I hope skiing never becomes snowboarding, if it reaches that point I'm gona start some vigilantie justice.

Wasted State Represent!!

I like my boots like my women, rear entry.
 
Everyone is competing for the same sponcers.. but me I will be 10 steps ahead of the game when I get my sponcer package ready to be sent out... there are a selct few who know what I speak of... you will see.

 
Its been said before, but i'll say it again - It's going to pick up when the first generation of our guys like Mike D., JF, and them land spots as team managers, etc., in the companies that are bringing us the goods. That way no 64 yr. old retired racer will be calling the shots in this 'new hot dog ski jumping fad', and no graphic designer in charge of heading up the ad designs for the new Beta Carve 3.4 Slalom Series will be putting together the new Dave Crichton ad. The 'alternate sports' (skate, ski, roll, board, ride) markets have a whole different set of marketing techniques, and there is a reason for it.

- G

 
i was reading through this post when i came across a reply that stated that extreme board sports are a fad.....now i can't believe that. while they may increase and decrease in popularity now and then, they are not a fad, they are a lifestlye, just like skiing.

i also had a contract last year that came up for renewal this year. the new contract says the same as the last, except it is for 2 years. i live in Europe so i dunno how it is over there in the US/Canada, but gear is expensive. When a company comes along and says we will provide you with good quality stuff free of charge its very hard to turn away. This is what many people call 'selling out', but i think it is very hard to change the direction of the sport and the actions of companies from the outside. Once in the company and making a good name for yourself you can then start to push things more towards what you think is progression. I suppose we should then accuse the high profile riders for not sticking up for themselves, but i'm sure even they would prefer to have a small earning contract, than no contract at all. This is just how i feel.

Small companies like Armada etc. are all good and well but they may not have the fincaial backing to give riders highly paying contracts and make good quality products at the same time. Somewhere along the line they have to charge more for they're skis (this only applies if the are not fincanially back, i dunno the situation with Armada) than larger companies such as Salomon. So unless we, the skiing community, give out more cash for our skis/clothes, small companies will find it hard to survive in the large corporate world.

sorry, that turned into an essay....you may not all agree with what i say but to the most part its true.

 
Just trying to point out that we are not alone with our industry. Hopefully some company will have Garrett designing ads for them and someone like Douglas as a team manager.

Sooner the better.

 
i think we have gotten away from the point a little bit,... n e ways what makes armada n e better than line who has done an amazing job of makiing skiing grow. we must realize that line doesnt have the money to sponsor big riders... it is just important that they r supported because they will become the future of the sport!

-waldie
 
I think there are a lot of people that believe in this industry. They believe that it will explode some day soon, and all the sacrifices of the present will be worth it. Newschool skiing as an industry is very new, and is still relatively unproven to the vast majority of both the ski and non-ski populations. Those of us who do believe that newschool will be around for a very long time want the recognition for the industry now, not later. It's hard to be patient. Armada couldn't have existed 2 years ago, there just wasn't enough demand, but as the industry grows companies will put more money back into the sport instead of taking it out.

I guess my point is that nothing happens overnight. Seems obvious, but for those of us that rely on the industry, the process (of creating an industry that can be self-sustaining) is painfully slow. I am confident that it will happen, it just may not happen for the next two or three years - or even longer. In the meantime situations like the ones that Reedy has mentioned will continue to occur.

Armada represents something very important to us all. It signifies a group of people that were not satisfied with the status-quo and actually had both the balls, and intelligence to do something about it. My support for Armada comes not from the brand or the people involved necessarily, but from the idea that spawned it. It's one thing to sit there and complain that company x screwed over athlete y but not many people have the drive to complain and then actually fix the problem. I think that instead of arguing over who is better: Line or Armada; we should concentrate on supporting both companies to show that we actually do care. It will infuse money into those companies that support us and at the same time motivate all of the others to do better.

Sure, things may not be perfect now but with hard work and patience we can all help mold our industry into what we want it to be.

 
wow, that was a good closing argument cko. just wanna say that, is anybody else talking about armada that much, or has it just been talked about on the site so much? i wouldnt know, i dont really tend to look at other forums cause.... good question.

This rant has brought to you in part by the Gomer corporation. Bringing you quality bablings since January.

MC Blowfish: 'Uh-oh, here comes that stupid shark, I better blow up!'
 
Hey this is a very good point Reedy. I like the fact that you brought this to our attention.

First of all I have a bit of something to share.

Think about this: If you were and older man or woman and not up on the whole freeride scene, and you watched a ski movie or saw an add or whatever and you went out to by a pair of skis and remembered that movie/add etc. you might want to buy from the same company that you saw the pro skier riding on right? But you'd also want to buy the model that best fit your size, ability etc. Now big company's like Atomic, Rossignol, Salomon etc. have models for all kinds of abilities and people where as Armada and Line only have the models that cater to the start they saw in the movie therefore they have a less chance of buying that ski because it doesn't carry a model that suits them. This means the larger companies with a vaster range of ckis will make the most money and be the most succesful (it also helps that they don't oly sponosr park riders, but big mountain, racing, skier x etc.) Just a thought, what do you think?

Oh ya, and I'm pretty sure Reedy was talking about Sarah Burke in his first post (I may be mistaken though). Oakley to Smith...

Oakley makes the best eyewear and clothing in the world!

Check out: www.jibculture.com
 
yeah it has to have been burke

_________________________________________________________

Proud Leader Of OA-a group for those addicted to oakley products.
 
I agree with Garrett. Look at someone like Jimbo Morgan, one of the older freeriders, but no less a revolutionary skier. He's secured a spot with a new company now, I forget which. But he helped out Marker for awhile and just got a new team manager position. In the next decade when guys like JP and JF call it quits, at least with comps and vids, they'll be calling the shots. No worries, mon.

-----------------------------------------------

Cheers

'You cant get hurt in the air....its when you land that bad things happen'

'You don't know me and you don't know my style.' - Method Man

 
Hmmm... where to start...

Of course Reedy threw out some good ideas, but keep in mind, that newschool skiing is still in its infancy basically. Give it time to establish itself and good things will happen. Athletes never get paid well as a sport is starting to develop. Why? Because the market isn't that big and it's expensive to sponsor a top-level athlete.

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~~~~Phunkin' Phatt Phreerider~~~~

~'BigAirSkier1580: and i am a newschool skier

DatGrlyChick: skier??

BigAirSkier1580: yah

DatGrlyChick: whats that?'
 
yea - about what Garrett said - that is what the snowboard industry is doing right now. all the x-top pros are now managers for the companies and are calling all the shots, and the current top pro's have garrentee'd jobs in the industry after they stop riding professionally. This must happen (and will in time) in the ski industry if we want the sport to grow to the level that we all hope it will.

Darryl Hunt

'We don't believe in McDonalds, we are against everything McDonalds does... ..We go to Burger King.' Fat Mike
 
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