Skientology: My Weird Projects

NinetyFour

Active member
As some of you may know I build skis in my spare time for the hell of it. Anyways over the past few years I've been working on some unique projects; I had big media ambitions for them but those just aren't materializing as I ended up with a 10 day season. Because I don't want to keep them under wraps forever I'm going to be showcasing them in this thread.

I'll start with what I think is my most banger project. I could go to extreme lengths to describe the history, chain of events, and thoughts that led to the creation of these skis but honestly there's so much to it that it would just turn into a big assed wall of text. With that they did evolve into something more refined over a few pairs of skis anyways so that progression should speak volumes for itself.

In short with this one project I wanted a really unique pair of pow skis that were designed with maximum surfability in mind. In my mind that translated to a totally edgeless, tapererd, and rockered ski. That sounds rad and all but in the off chance you hit some snow slightly harder than a potato, shit would turn into kamikaze ops real quick. Would edges prevent that? Maybe, but when you pile on the taper and rocker you really start to lose effective edge and don't make much grip in the end anyways.

My solution? Fins, short ones that protrude a few millimeters below the base. Enough to anchor the ski through a pretty ripping turn, but not so much that you're dragging claws through the snow. They're akin to what the OG DPS Spoon was aiming to do with it's cleats, and purposefully alike runners on a snowmobile ski.

Here's the 3 pair that have been a part of the project so far:

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The pair on the far left are based off of my 'Oliver' shape which isn't even close to my full design intention. I had a pair being built in that shape though and decided to scrap them as a traditional build and turned them into a finned build to see if there was any merit to the idea. The other two pair are my 'Sir Fin' shape, with the blue sidewalled pair being the latest evolution.

Scope the fins here:

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So the skis evolved from the pair on the left to the pair on the right. On my original 'Oliver' pair there were 4 fins per ski. Originally they had a super aggressive shape and the fin location was more or less a direct rip on what the Spoon and it's cleats were doing. This pair was absolute hell to ski. They were so locked in that I literally couldn't turn them on hard snow. I eventually ground the fins down to a much lower profile and that made the skis functional however they still felt very hooky in the tip and tail.

IMG_8428.jpg


From there I decided to switch to 2 fins per ski, directly under boot center. That way the ski would sort of pivot around them, and they would get more pressure on them from the skiers weight while turning. This pair was a massive improvement over the last, they felt like pretty normal skis while carving through boiler plate snow. The new 'Sir Fin' shape was way more aligned with what I wanted for a pow ski as well. The big issue with these ended up being how far in the fins were mounted, too much angulation ended up lifting the fin of the ski away from the snow and that dumped all grip immediately.

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That lead me to the latest pair which had the fins underfoot again, but this time they were placed directly on the sidewall which was another huge improvement. Overall they feel really good on firm snow. I enjoy blasting around on the latest iteration of the 'Sir Fin' more than any other ski in my quiver. You can lean them over quite well, ski them really fast, and still butter the nose and tail really well as there is absolutely no edge. At that the base and edge across all 3 pair have a round over on them to improve that surfy feel on all types of snow.

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All of that being said I definitely need to get some footage of these bad beasts. The only riding I've had on them has been on some fam shreds at a local resort. While the fam is great, none of them are exactly eheath when it comes to filming. So unfortunately I kind of have to blue-balls everyone until next season, cue "OP must deliver...!" I have some other plans in the works for this project over the summer as well to make it more rad, longer lengths, wider, more taper, more rocker...

I could also prove the relevance of these skis by making some weirdly photoshopped photos that have no relevance, talking about how I'm skiing on several axis, attest to the power of healing crystals, and go out stacking some wicked gopole shots. That's not in the cards though, trust me we'll get some sick shots for you guys.

Associated photo dump below:

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Shoutout to all the squad who's helped me out one way or another over the past few years. You guys are awesome, keep that up, I like it, I owe ya a cold one.

That's that. Fire away with questions, tell me how I'm 70 kinds of crazy, let me know if I should rename all of this shit fartcarve, etc... If you do like this though I've definitely got some more stuff up the sleeves for a later date. I don't know when, probably whenever I damn feel like it though.
 
Won't take any of this seriously until I see healing crystal shots.

JK, really cool to see this project, and outside the box thinking, we need to ski together sometime so I can get a taste of the hype!
 
really interesting dude... never really thought of anything like that, and I'm sure no one else has, but really innovative. Would be fun to try them some time(hmu if you come out to PC next year), they look fun as hell on a super deep day. Keep trying new things and playing around, I'm sure we'll hear more innovations and such from you in the future!
 
Dose edge underfoot matter? I was always under the impression it was the edge in front and behind the foot a few inches that mattered more, like most here I detune my skis underfoot and don't notice to much loss in edge hold in turns. Assuming that the edge under foot was not as critical as edge in front, I like this idea tho
 
13663138:Deforestation said:
Edgeless skis would be sick for rails... Too bad the "fins" are directly underfoot.

Aha yes. Line, moment, and a few others have done this before I beleive. They were insane just trying to ski around on otherwise from what I remember though. For jibs though it would be butter city.

At the least the fins on my latest pair are removable, whip out 12 flush hex head screws and they're out. Take em off and it's open season on jibs. I was hoping to get some finless riding in this season but spent all of my time with them on because I really wanted to be confident in how they rode.

There's also the potential to never put any fins in to begin with and leave them as edgeless pow surfers. Really if you do end up riding a day where it's fresh lines start till stop, you'd be golden and there's no need for fins.
 
so much respect, looks like what companies will be doing years down the track and you have done this in your spare time.

the skis look great. props to you for doing this, it must have been such a long process to get the skis the way they look now.
 
I would make the fins retractable to drop over the outside of the ski like helicopter legs (similar to a binding brake hanging over the outside of the ski).

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or else have them click in and out from a mount on the top (or a mount built into the sidewall - you've already got screw holes there.)

Either way, it's more design and construction effort so may be too hard.

The skis look good in terms of colors and patterns, although the shape is obviously too oldschool for my liking (as you could well imagine.)
 
innovator! Keep it up man, this is awesome to see. I've fast forwarded ten years in my own mind and I see you making skis for a living. These already look awesome and I think you may be on to something with the surf ski.
 
A little off topic but those clear bases and topsheets look so clean. Keep up the good work dude
 
topic:NinetyFour said:
I could also prove the relevance of these skis by making some weirdly photoshopped photos that have no relevance, talking about how I'm skiing on several axis, attest to the power of healing crystals, and go out stacking some wicked gopole shots. That's not in the cards though, trust me we'll get some sick shots for you guys.

Shartcarve x NinetyFour collab in the works?

How is durability along the edgeless part of the ski?
 
13663379:JakeSmith said:
Shartcarve x NinetyFour collab in the works?

How is durability along the edgeless part of the ski?

Aha who knows...

Also definitely a downside. So far the pairs of Sir Fin are holding up really well, but I've only had a handful of days between them. They have seen quite a bit of really icy man-made snow though, which along with maybe some early season sharky conditions would be the worse they'll have to go through. The Olivers have seen some rail time, but it was mostly all plastic and corregated tubes. It didn't really wear on them, but I think steel rails would take a good hit on em.
 
13663394:NinetyFour said:
Aha who knows...

Ahh, I was actually hoping to colab with Porsche, but anyway I can send the moulds of the Heartslayers if you'll actually use them to build a ski (btw where is the p-tex on the skis.. they look like waterskis... what am I missing here? The Rax ski has fins and you wouldn't want to start traversing on them.)
 
13663419:HC_mountain said:
Ahh, I was actually hoping to colab with Porsche, but anyway I can send the moulds of the Heartslayers if you'll actually use them to build a ski (btw where is the p-tex on the skis.. they look like waterskis... what am I missing here? The Rax ski has fins and you wouldn't want to start traversing on them.)

For the sake of this awesome thread gtfo.
 
Really cool idea, but i can't imagine that they would be a durable ski. Are you using a different sidewall material to due to the loss of the metal edge?
 
Holy shit, this is so inspiring. You're onto some awesome stuff here in many ways. The execution is gorgeous too.

I wonder if theres room to expand that system more? I love the idea of modular underfoot edges if they're a little longer.

I could do a some park laps in the morning with a really shallow dull edge. Then after lunch, I grab sharper edges out of my pack, thread those on and go all mountain.

so much potential here!

Are you in college, or what? If so, you should definitely be looking for grant money.
 
Dude this are my fucking dreams skis. I'd love to talk to you about making Nordic skis--I've been studying for some time. You're already on it with the wooden edgless surfers, this is so sick man.
 
Damn OP! Very inspiring work! Obviously a bunch of effort, time, money, and overall thought was put into these. Very impressive! Thank you very much for sharing!
 
Why not make the base convex? I guess it doesn't matter too much since there isn't a metal edge to catch on, just a ptex one.

On that topic, why not do a convex base? Seems to solve the lack of edge problem as well although I imagine for it to be effective you would need a rather thick ski, plus it would be less surfy in feel, so I might have already answered that one.

Have you thought about messing with the sidewall angle? I guess it makes it a little harder to set inserts and you might have to bend the fins to match but you would shave off a bit of weight.

Really I am only bringing this up because I would love to hear how setting your fins at different angles change the feel of your ski. I imagine it to be no different than setting traditional edge angles to some extent but you can get way more extreme with it. A simple test would be to make up some sets of spacers that will set the fin to a certain degree, obviously it won't be snug with the side of the ski but rough tests can be helpful.
 
13663419:HC_mountain said:
The Rax ski

I have to address these before anybody goes all out with in depth comparisons... The Rax Ski is something I wish I had never seen. I seen them on the internets some time last season when I was scoping older ON3P stuff, and I think it was a pair of Wrens that had the tails chopped off to make way for their fins. They are way closer to a surfboard orientation than my skis, but functionally I don't even know if we're talking similar leagues...

For anyone who doesn't know what a Rax Ski is:

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At this point I think they've been reduced to a TGR old man meme while the inventor is still desperately trying to promote them. I'd like to think I have enough self awareness that if what I've done makes it to that point, then I'll just join the crowd and poke fun to. Please lemme know if things hit that point guys.

13663479:Brocka_Flocka said:
OP what are the dimensions? Length, width, sidecut, profile ect.

I have no idea why I didn't include this in the OP. The Sir Fin is an awfully short 176cm (measured tip to tail with a straight pull of the tape, TRUE 176cm) and a 133mm/117mm/126mm shape. The fins are 90mm long and protrude 2mm below the base. The shape is actually pretty tiny in terms of what I'm going for. The next shape will be at least a 181cm with a fatter waist, more taper, more rocker, very Armada ARG like.

13663537:spencer.holm.1 said:
Really cool idea, but i can't imagine that they would be a durable ski. Are you using a different sidewall material to due to the loss of the metal edge?

13663566:304NordMan said:
Dude this are my fucking dreams skis. I'd love to talk to you about making Nordic skis--I've been studying for some time. You're already on it with the wooden edgless surfers, this is so sick man.

So yeah the edgeless nature of the ski and long term durability is going to be interesting for sure and I don't even know where that will end up. There's a lot to learn. As of right now though the sidewalls are super thick/wide at 13mm for one of them. That's probably going to more than most normal sidewalls and with this kind of construction I have going you can technically grind and scrape away most of that base and sidewall material and the ski will still be totally functional.

This construction is identical to any ski that doesn't have edge wrapping around the tip or the tail. It's all really inline with the HRZN tip and tail that the current gen of Bent Chetlers have:

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I guess if HRZN holds up well long term then these should to. NordMan can maybe school us to, what's the durability of edgless XC skis like?

With all of this it does eliminate any durability problems edges themselves have. there won't be many cracks or pullouts over here, ha.

13663540:technique. said:
I wonder if theres room to expand that system more? I love the idea of modular underfoot edges if they're a little longer.

I could do a some park laps in the morning with a really shallow dull edge. Then after lunch, I grab sharper edges out of my pack, thread those on and go all mountain.

so much potential here!

Are you in college, or what? If so, you should definitely be looking for grant money.

13663682:Poikenz said:
Why not make the base convex? I guess it doesn't matter too much since there isn't a metal edge to catch on, just a ptex one.

On that topic, why not do a convex base? Seems to solve the lack of edge problem as well although I imagine for it to be effective you would need a rather thick ski, plus it would be less surfy in feel, so I might have already answered that one.

Have you thought about messing with the sidewall angle? I guess it makes it a little harder to set inserts and you might have to bend the fins to match but you would shave off a bit of weight.

I definitely want to mess around with the fins more. Longer lengths, shallower, deeper, angles, no fins at all. It should all be fairly easy to try new stuff especially with the latest pair having removable ones. The removable nature of them is also nice for stuff like base grinds and waxing.

As far as convex shape goes, I really want to! It's a lot of added complication in the manufacturing process though but it's definitely something I want to try my hand at some time. For now though my edgless setup is kind of a poor man's convex/HRZN base. It's hard to see in the pictures so this little wood block should show the rounded over profile in comparison to the square edge it started out with:

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Really you can think of where the sidewall and base meet as having one GIANT detune.

Also about the ski turning on hard snow. Normally a ski turns because you set it on edge, the edge forms an arc because of the sidecut shape and ski's flex, and the ski follows that arc. With the Sir Fins, it's just digging in with the fins and following their direction. The whole edge of the ski itself isn't really doing much, maybe adding some drag but largely just slipping around. Again though they feel really normal, and I think the only way to show that will be video of someone ripping some turns on em.
 
13663687:bait said:
Taking out the edge on a ski has to reduce the weight by a lot. and the stiffness.

I'll definitely have to do some weigh ins, and then compare the weight of all the fins vs. all the edge that I would typically build this pair of skis with.

Taking the edge out has removed some stiffness, but more than anything dampness. The edge and edge rubber I build with definitely add a lot of dampness to the ski. Luckily the UHMW sidewalls themselves are fairly damp and since I've built those on nice and wide it's helped a lot. I'll have to come up with some sort of personal standard to compare the dampness of my skis; for now it's whether or not they're chattering so bad that I feel like I'm going to explode. That hasn't happened yet but I'm no Lindsay Vonn.
 
Not only is this a sick idea, but its also really well executed and the skis look dope. +K cant wait to buy my first pair in a few years haha
 
if you want these to be all out pow chargers/slavers, i think they would benefit from less sidecut or even full reverse sidecut. also convex bases, but i imagine those aren't the easiest things to make. im thinking about picking up a pair of garywaynes next year for the really deep days.
 
if you want these to be all out pow chargers/slavers, i think they would benefit from less sidecut or even full reverse sidecut. also convex bases, but i imagine those aren't the easiest things to make. im thinking about picking up a pair of garywaynes next year for the really deep days.
 
13663833:RudyGarmisch said:
So what about the existing patents on this idea?

I'd say the closest things going are Armada's replaceable edge/sidewall patent, and Ninthwards replaceable edge/base patent. I don't think they're going for quite the same thing. Then other similar stuff is unfornuately Rax ski... Also this sick snowboard nutz. showed me:
http://springbreakshop.com/shop/snowboards/mini-smithers/

Those fins though, made for the deep.

As far as actual patents and idea security go, I started wondering about this sometime last year and me and Bishop has like a two hour phone call about it. There was so much I could have done in the way of this, patents, NDAs, etc... In the end though I'm personally not too worried about it with this up here; any info I go on blast with this is basically an anti-patent. Sure someone can try to patent exactly this now but if someone else ever went into production or something, there's a fairly strong case on it no longer a being genuine idea as its out there now. There's also the time and money that goes into those things and personally I'm gonna be investing time and money into other personal projects down the road.
 
13663725:NinetyFour said:
As far as convex shape goes, I really want to! It's a lot of added complication in the manufacturing process though but it's definitely something I want to try my hand at some time. For now though my edgless setup is kind of a poor man's convex/HRZN base. It's hard to see in the pictures so this little wood block should show the rounded over profile in comparison to the square edge it started out with

Really you can think of where the sidewall and base meet as having one GIANT detune.

Also about the ski turning on hard snow. Normally a ski turns because you set it on edge, the edge forms an arc because of the sidecut shape and ski's flex, and the ski follows that arc. With the Sir Fins, it's just digging in with the fins and following their direction. The whole edge of the ski itself isn't really doing much, maybe adding some drag but largely just slipping around. Again though they feel really normal, and I think the only way to show that will be video of someone ripping some turns on em.

Shit, my second question was about concave bases over convex bases, sorry about that confusion.

So to reiterate, why not do a concave base? Seems to solve the lack of edge problem, although I imagine for it to be effective you would need a rather thick ski, plus it would be less surfy in feel, so I might have already answered that one. I wanted to ask this as you already said that the fins clearly don't give you any sort of sidecut.

It doesn't seem too hard to make a couple of trays that will fit your mould if you have access to a cnc router, even just a quick router guide followed by hand planing/ sanding doesn't seem too hard. Then the only issue is cutting your materials so the top of the ski still comes out flat (which is really only needed in your mounting areas).
 
13663886:Poikenz said:
Shit, my second question was about concave bases over convex bases, sorry about that confusion.

So to reiterate, why not do a concave base? Seems to solve the lack of edge problem, although I imagine for it to be effective you would need a rather thick ski, plus it would be less surfy in feel, so I might have already answered that one. I wanted to ask this as you already said that the fins clearly don't give you any sort of sidecut.

It doesn't seem too hard to make a couple of trays that will fit your mould if you have access to a cnc router, even just a quick router guide followed by hand planing/ sanding doesn't seem too hard. Then the only issue is cutting your materials so the top of the ski still comes out flat (which is really only needed in your mounting areas).

You would definitely not want to ski on a concave base, that's what a railed ski base is. It would be like constantly being on edge/carving, but both sides of the ski are engaging when you want to go straight but your ski wants to dart around in two different directions. I guess it would be like having fins along the entire side-cut as an extreme example. Now that I think about it though, it would definitely be interesting to see that would happen with a concave base but with the fins underfoot and severely rounded sidecuts, maybe the super squirrley effects would be negated.
 
13663220:HC_mountain said:
I would make the fins retractable to drop over the outside of the ski like helicopter legs (similar to a binding brake hanging over the outside of the ski).

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or else have them click in and out from a mount on the top (or a mount built into the sidewall - you've already got screw holes there.)

Either way, it's more design and construction effort so may be too hard.

The skis look good in terms of colors and patterns, although the shape is obviously too oldschool for my liking (as you could well imagine.)

fuckin kook
 
13663886:Poikenz said:
Shit, my second question was about concave bases over convex bases, sorry about that confusion.

So to reiterate, why not do a concave base? Seems to solve the lack of edge problem, although I imagine for it to be effective you would need a rather thick ski, plus it would be less surfy in feel, so I might have already answered that one. I wanted to ask this as you already said that the fins clearly don't give you any sort of sidecut.

It doesn't seem too hard to make a couple of trays that will fit your mould if you have access to a cnc router, even just a quick router guide followed by hand planing/ sanding doesn't seem too hard. Then the only issue is cutting your materials so the top of the ski still comes out flat (which is really only needed in your mounting areas).

I had a pair of afterbangs that went concave once due to a delam underfoot/probably being a shitty defect pair

worst ski experience ever. I could fucking rail turns on them despite dull ass edges but even just trying to hockey stop felt like I was going to catch an edge and fly away into space. edgless concave skis on the other hand may be better though
 
13664038:JakeSmith said:
You would definitely not want to ski on a concave base, that's what a railed ski base is. It would be like constantly being on edge/carving, but both sides of the ski are engaging when you want to go straight but your ski wants to dart around in two different directions. I guess it would be like having fins along the entire side-cut as an extreme example. Now that I think about it though, it would definitely be interesting to see that would happen with a concave base but with the fins underfoot and severely rounded sidecuts, maybe the super squirrley effects would be negated.

I'm well aware of the problems of a concave base, but like mentioned, we are talking about an edgeless ski, hell, look at water skis, plenty of them have a concave base for railing turns.

It might just turn out like an old school ski with "speed channels" which is why I figure you'd almost want to take it to a bit of an extreme, thus an unruly amount of extra core would be needed to make the top flat. My ultimate proposal was to make a subtle wavy 'w' shape but I didn't say anything as I'm not sure if that would create the desired effect, or something else entirely. If it does make sense you could make a ridiculous ski with reverse sidecut and a sidecut shaped 'w' underneath to create an amazing pow ski.

On a side note* someone please hire me, I have 100's of stupid ideas and no funds to back them.
 
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