Ski Resorts Prepare For a Future Without Skis

word, and thats a legitimate opinion. i don't doubt that you've read up on this because you cared enough to go look it up, but unfortunately i was so angry from responding to the other idiocy that was posted in this thread that it had peaked when it came time to respond to your post. while i disagree with your general conclusion on climate change, i at least respect it given that you've done the research before making your decision. some of the other clowns in here, not so much.
 
This article talks about Arosa, Switzerland.

During the past month Arosa had the most snowfall it has ever had since 1954.
 
furthering the point of how global warming is happening because one of the main effects of it is Precipitation Deviation.  Everyone needs to understand this.
 
“But we know if about 40 percent of skiing areas in the European Alps

will be gone in 50, 100 years, then we will have a problem as well.”

hmm

67, i wont be dropping cliffs but i will be skiing. if theres snow...damn it.

meh it's europe, lets all move to Dubai and go to Ski Dubai every day.
 
so true, once the oil crisis hits the world will never be the same again, ever...
 
I think the earth is warming but I don't think it is all human

induced. I don't think ice cores really do give us the exat amount of

co2 in the atmosphere at the time that the air was trapped in the ice,

because it can dissipate through thin ice. We can see that CO2 in the

atomoshpere and the temperature of the atmosphere are directly related,

but it is impossible to say which is effected by which. If CO2 does

reaise temperature, it has always done so. If the ice core samples are

correct, and we do have more CO2 in the atmosphere the temperature of

the earth has not increased dramatically as the charts show CO2 has

increased dramatically, meaning that temperature and CO2 are not as

directly related as some have previously believed. It is all a big sham. I just personally don't

feel that the research is complete and it is still inconclusive,

scientists 15 years ago were telling everyone that they had conclusive

evidence that the Earth was going into another ice age, so... lets

believe everything the scientific community has to offer... SO SOME OF YOU ARE SAYING THAT YOU HAVE SEEN GLOBAL WARMING HAPPENING? HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? HAVE YOU LIVED FOR 25000 YEARS? So now all of global warming has to go off of what you have personally

seen. What about the winter of 1976 when Squaw valley didn't even open?

What about that same winter when some resorts didn't open until March

in Utah and had to close that same month. What about villages built in

Europe 1500 years ago that are now buried under ice. What about entire

cities built during the roman empire which have also suffered the same

destruction? How about we base all of global warming just because

you didn't get as much snow last year as you remember getting when you were a kid! Did you ever

consider it to be weather patterns?
 
Yes you're right, this is definately a possibility.  It's not really keep happening right now, but if things go as they have been, we could see some major cooling trends due to the weakening of the north atlantic drift.  I really don't know to what extent though 
 
Yes but If a known problem isn't imediately at your doorstep, it certainly doesn't reduce it's significane.  I guess it's human nature though to wait until you are slapped in the face to react to something.
 
Many of us humans use preemptive strategies in life to prevent disease and sickness so we can preserve the overall health of our body before it is too late.  Simple things such as a well balanced diet and consistent exercise can help us greatly.  Well the same thing goes for our planet.  We need to act preemptively to preserve the overall health of our planet before things get out of control.
 
everyone who believes global warming is some catastrophic and looming doomsday causing disaster is an absolute brainwashed idiot. go suck on al gores penis and make that truth a lil more convenient. youre all dumb.
 
hope this works...

Al gore's graphs and your stupid idiotic graphs:

20000yearsbig.gif


notice the sample space of only 20,000 years.

A real, scientific graph done by real scientists:

url


notice the much larger sample space of 500,000 years

Also, if you were astounded by the sheer vertical rise of Al Gore's pretty little lines, take a closer look:

climatechangecritique.jpg


Oh shit whats that on the Y Axis? Shit are those logged numbers? Do those misleadingly increase the slope exponentially? They sure do! YEA YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

 
This is exactly what I was talking about. See how the CO2 levels rise significantly (and we have to take this with a grain of salt because who knows if ice core samples are correct), and on top of that, notice how the blue line (or the temperature line) does follow the CO2 pattern to an extent, but ceases to follow the CO2 line after the CO2 line rises too far? Somehow maybe CO2 and temperature aren't as related as previously thought.
 
I like having sex with babies... I think that morally accepatable? Seriously though .... I think a quick little thought experiment might well give us a little insight wether our human conduct has any significant influence on CO2 levels . Considering total atmospheric mass is 5.1361×10^18 kg and around 0.04% is CO2 (wiki), the total mass of CO2 in the atmosphere is 20.5444*10^16 kg of CO2. Question is how much uncompensated CO2 emissions do humans produce every year. Lets just consider cars. Every car produces around 100-200 g/km of CO2 (http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk). There is 6 billion people on the planet. Lets be conservative: Say maybe 0.5% of the world population has a car. lets just say maybe on average we get 10 km every day per person. So we have 1-2 kg of Co2 emission per person per day. This times 300 million gives you in increase of 600 million kg /of CO2 every day in our atmosphere. This is not considering industry, public transportation, electricity and so on. Is this enough to change this garganteous number of 20.5444*10^16 number ?? I don't know but I lean to answer it with yes. If we assume double this amount (600 million kg /of CO2 ) with industry emissions, we have a value of 1.2 billion kg of CO2 every day... times 365 days = 4.38*10^11 kg per year of CO2 . Wether this number is statiscally significant considering is open for debate. We should though consider that the increase in people and the flourishing of ecnomies such as china and india and so forth plus the logging of forests (CO2 filters) will continue to drive emissions up. Hell, we managed to hunt whole races of animals to extinction then I think we should also manage to sink Holland and to sell Alaska beachfront properties. Jokes aside... the earth goes through cycles, the ocean is a buffer for CO2 and its not clear wether or not the emissions we produce are big enough to significantly alter the ratios of greenhouse gases to the point where we would see effects on the climate. Still I think we should be careful in assuming any conclusion without thinking it through.
http://www.ucar.edu/learn/1_3_1.htm somwehat intersting link

 
i dont think you got the point of my post because you have a poor understanding of math. Al Gore, in order to be able to cleverly use a forklift to shock the average "open minded" viewer, logged the numbers on the Y axis. This means they are powers of 10. So say you had a Y axis of 1, 2, 3, 4. A 1:1 rise would have a slop of 1/1, obviously. Now if you log it, you will have a Y axis of 10, 100, 1000, 10000. Now a 1:1 rise would produce a slope that is exponential. You can see that they are logged because the increments between the numbers grow exponentially. In actuality, the current CO2 levels are extremely negligibly higher than the previous peak.
 
How the hell can you say I don't understand math, All I am saying is that the temperature follows CO2 for a while, but it doesn't rise exponentially as the CO2 does towards the end.
 
No, that's not true. The vast majority of climatologists believe that global warming is being caused or exacerbated by humans. In fact, the number of dissenting scientists is small enough to be listed in a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

The only scientific organization to oppose the IPCC's statement that "Most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures

since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase

in anthropogenic (human) greenhouse gas concentrations
" and "The probability that this is caused by natural climatic processes alone is less than 5%" is the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, who have since changed their position to "we're not sure". The National Academy of Sciences, the AAAP, the Joint Science Academies, the US National Research Council, the AIP, the AAS, the Geological Society of America, and the American Meteorological Society have all explicitly endorsed the IPCC's statement. That's basically every organization dealing with climate research.

To say that many scientists believe it's just a natural cycle is misleading. Very few believe it's a natural cycle, and even less who aren't tied to big oil.

In order to believe that climate change is not caused by humans, you have to disregard scientific consensus. And while the scientific consensus has been wrong in the past, you're still an idiot for disregarding it unless you have a compelling reason for doing so. You'd need evidence compelling enough to convince me that that vast majority of the smartest people in the world are wrong. I haven't seen anything from deniers that is even remotely close.
 
This is a copy and paste I have found...

1. Most scientists do not believe human activities threaten to disrupt the Earth’s climate.

More than 17,000 scientists have signed a petition circulated by the

Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine saying, in part, “there is no

convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide,

methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the

foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s

atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.” (Go to www.oism.org for the complete petition and names of signers.) Surveys of climatologists show similar skepticism.

2. Our most reliable sources of temperature data show no global warming trend. Satellite

readings of temperatures in the lower troposphere (an area scientists

predict would immediately reflect any global warming) show no warming

since readings began 23 years ago. These readings are accurate to

within 0.01ºC, and are consistent with data from weather balloons. Only

land-based temperature stations show a warming trend, and these

stations do not cover the entire globe, are often contaminated by heat

generated by nearby urban development, and are subject to human error.

3. Global climate computer models are too crude to predict future climate changes.

All predictions of global warming are based on computer models, not

historical data. In order to get their models to produce predictions

that are close to their designers’ expectations, modelers resort to

“flux adjustments” that can be 25 times larger than the effect of

doubling carbon dioxide concentrations, the supposed trigger for global

warming. Richard A. Kerr, a writer for Science, says “climate modelers have been ‘cheating’ for so long it’s almost become respectable.”

4. The IPCC did not prove that human activities are causing global warming.

Alarmists frequently quote the executive summaries of reports from the

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), a United Nations

organization, to support their predictions. But here is what the IPCC’s

latest report, Climate Change 2001, actually says about

predicting the future climate: “The Earth’s atmosphere-ocean dynamics

is chaotic: its evolution is sensitive to small perturbations in

initial conditions. This sensitivity limits our ability to predict the

detailed evolution of weather; inevitable errors and uncertainties in

the starting conditions of a weather forecast amplify through the

forecast. As well as uncertainty in initial conditions, such

predictions are also degraded by errors and uncertainties in our

ability to represent accurately the significant climate processes.”

5. A modest amount of global warming, should it occur, would be beneficial to the natural world and to human civilization.

Temperatures during the Medieval Warm Period (roughly 800 to 1200 AD),

which allowed the Vikings to settle presently inhospitable Greenland,

were higher than even the worst-case scenario reported by the IPCC. The

period from about 5000-3000 BC, known as the “climatic optimum,” was

even warmer and marked “a time when mankind began to build its first

civilizations,” observe James Plummer and Frances B. Smith in a study

for Consumer Alert. “There is good reason to believe that a warmer

climate would have a similar effect on the health and welfare of our

own far more advanced and adaptable civilization today.”

6. Efforts to quickly reduce human greenhouse gas emissions would be costly and would not stop Earth’s climate from changing. Reducing

U.S. carbon dioxide emissions to 7 percent below 1990’s levels by the

year 2012--the target set by the Kyoto Protocol--would require higher

energy taxes and regulations causing the nation to lose 2.4 million

jobs and $300 billion in annual economic output. Average household

income nationwide would fall by $2,700, and state tax revenues would

decline by $93.1 billion due to less taxable earned income and sales,

and lower property values. Full implementation of the Kyoto Protocol by

all participating nations would reduce global temperature in the year

2100 by a mere 0.14 degrees Celsius.

7. Efforts by state governments to reduce greenhouse gas emissions are even more expensive and threaten to bust state budgets.

After raising their spending with reckless abandon during the 1990s,

states now face a cumulative projected deficit of more than $90

billion. Incredibly, most states nevertheless persist in backing

unnecessary and expensive greenhouse gas reduction programs. New

Jersey, for example, collects $358 million a year in utility taxes to

fund greenhouse gas reduction programs. Such programs will have no

impact on global greenhouse gas emissions. All they do is destroy jobs

and waste money.

8. The best strategy to pursue is “no regrets.”

The alternative to demands for immediate action to “stop global

warming” is not to do nothing. The best strategy is to invest in

atmospheric research now and in reducing emissions sometime in the

future if the science becomes more compelling. In the meantime,

investments should be made to reduce emissions only when such

investments make economic sense in their own right.

This strategy

is called “no regrets,” and it is roughly what the Bush administration

has been doing. The U.S. spends more on global warming research each

year than the entire rest of the world combined, and American

businesses are leading the way in demonstrating new technologies for

reducing and sequestering greenhouse gas emissions.

 
Which brings me to my next point. The U.S. measuring station for carbon in the atmosphere is located on top of a volcano...... Did anyone realize that Carbon comes out of volcanoes? Which brings me to my next point, don't believe all the date you read, which brings me to my next point, I am all for finding different methods of energy, and being more environmentally minded, so I don't typically fight global warming, because it is one way that maybe fat lazy americans will get off their butts and start caring about the environment, however, I did feel the need to state my opinion here, and that opinion is that too many people believe in global warming without enough evidence, I don't personally know if it is true, but I have shown enough evidence to show that there is far more than a shadow of a doubt that says it isn't caused by humans
 
Since you decided not to post where that's from, I will. That was authored by the Heartland Institute, which receives annual donations from Exxon-Mobile ranging from 100,000 to 200,000$, according to Greenpeace (http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/orgfactsheet.php?id=41)

Surely they are much more reliable than the IPCC and the National Academy of Sciences....
 
Er.. I'm fairly certain that the worlds eminent climatologists are aware of this. In fact, I'd wager that anyone who has taken a geology course probably is aware of it, too.

Being skeptical of data is all great, but I'd be slightly more skeptical of what big-oil / dissenting scientists say than what the National Academy of Sciences says. The NAS has proven to be slightly more reliable...
 
So, I study environmental science. And reading the first 1/4 of this thread is sort of a bummer. I don't care enough to point out the (endless) flaws in the arguements on both sides here, but here's a thought:

If you're trying to have a rational arguement, you shouldn't be yammering on about what you believe. What you should be doing, if you actually care, is going to your local library and looking over peer-reviewed literature on the subject (try "science", it's into it 2nd? 3rd century now? or take a look at IPCC publications). Thats as close to unbiased fact as it gets. Then form an opinion.

 
Wow, great quote dude. That had a ton of super duper information.

The IPCC's reports have reflected that they strongly believe human activity has a serious effect on climate change. Quoting a disclaimer that they make prior to stating an actual opinion means nothing.

It's like this: Say you had a big lump in your brain and the surgeon says to you;

"I can't say with 100 percent certainty what this lump in your brain is because we do not have sufficient tools or time to fully analyze it and it appears to be made of a previously unknown substance, this along with with the incredibly complex chemistry of the brain leaves us with less than concrete knowledge. However, our surgical panel here feels confident that there is about a 97% chance of imminent death if said lump is not excised."

That last sentence might be important don't you think?

Not having made a disclaimer like that would have compromised the IPCC's credibility within the scientific community and anyone with a brain.
 
I said quite a few scientists believe it is a natural cycle. Did I say all? No. Did I say the majority? No. My point was that there is not enough evidence to explicitly say if it is one way or another, and alot of the scientists fall on both sides of the fence. While many do believe that it is human influence, this is just a general hypothesis on the small amount of information they have to work with, and by no means does that mean that they are correct.

I wouldn't put a lot of weight on that list. It lacks alot of information.
 
No. This is what I disagree with. Many scientists do not "fall on the other side of the fence". The vast, vast majority of scientists think that humans are causing global warming, as is evidenced by the multitudes of extremely respected academic societies that have issued statements of support for the IPCC's report.

The 'scientists disagree too' argument is garbage. It's completely analogous to when smoking was linked to lung cancer. A few scientists with questionable links to that industry disagreed, and people spin it as uncertainty in the scientific community. There is no disagreement among respected institutions. If you're going to deny that humans are causing global warming, you are disregarding scientific consensus.
 
everyone who thinks the world is going to break down into some sort of massive storm system where hurricanes and tornadoes rip through LA and NYC gets flooded, then frozen over is an idiot. Im not saying that human emissions dont increase CO2. Obviously they do; to think otherwise would be just as retarded as thinking that tmrw, the gulf stream might shut down and dennis quaid and al gore will be the only ones who can save us. That said, however, the emissions we produce are so insignificant compared to earths normal geological cycles. If there is a big increase, leaning towards the more sensationalist side here, then it is about 1 ppm. The earth naturally fluctuates about + 150 ppm over the course of a hundred thousand years. If a lot of you were first convinced my an inconvenient truth, well to you guys, gullible isnt in the dictionary.
 
This is by far the best strategy. Just look at what the Americans and British have accomplished. We have turned humongous oil conglomerates like British Petroleum and Chevron into very environmentally minded companies. BP now stands for beyond petroleum and Chevron is almost entirely devoted to finding other means of energy. Granted these actions might be motivated by OPEC's ridiculous monopoly but nevertheless America is leading the charge. Look at Chevy: chevy has a shitload of vehicles that run on alternate energy. Also the ford explorer is now a hybrid.

What have the shitbag frenchies done? The ones who claim global warming will lead to the statue of liberty freezing over and CO2 levels rising higher than a forklift can climb? Do you see Peugots getting plugged in?
 
Fuck spas, mountaintop convention centers, and valet parking. This is isn't skiing as I know it, nor will it ever be that way, at least for me. They can prepare for a future without skis, but they are certainly not going to have to prepare for me if they are focused on spas and the like.
 
thats kind of depressing, but i have to agree with coskibum, the earth is going through cycles, sure we may be speeding up the process a little but global warming isnt all our fault
 
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