Ski judging

[p.arneson]

Open letter to freeskiing: judging

There have been a lot of questions and comments regarding the judging in aspen, especially after the results of big air and knuckle huck.

I’ll start by at least giving you my credentials so you don’t think I’m completely full of shit. I’ve judged XGAMES 8 times, 6 in Aspen, and 2 Euro X, as well as dozens of FIS events. I stopped judging in 2018 and started announcing dew tour as well as live venue announcing at x games.

Thought I’d maybe share some perspective that a lot of people don’t necessarily know or think about from the judges booth.

A lot of the questions have come after the results of big air, and why people ending up being ranked where they were. We’ll start with the scoring system. This year there were 3 scoring judges, normally 5 and a head judge. The judges score on a scale from 0-15, all 3 judges scores are added up, plus 5 points to get a score out of 50. The scores are only used as a tool to find a ranking, so they don’t necessarily matter, as long as the ranking is correct. That being said, when you have a contest with more that 15 tricks, but only 15 points to give, they’re already working with a flawed system. The judges use criteria to find the ranking, execution, variety, combinations, amplitude and progression, which then is used to get an “overall impression” of what is done. They use that criteria to decide which trick is ranked where. Now consider that scoring system, and that criteria, and you have to do all of that it at the most, 10 seconds during big air, while remembering what other tricks have already been done and comparing them. Buy air is also a 2 jump format at x, where each skier has their 2 best, different tricks scored. ABM for example did one of the best single tricks of the contest with the switch triple 14, lead octo to trailing octo, which received one of the highest scores given out. But his other trick, dub bio 10 breeby, wasn’t enough to compare to ahall’s two tricks (switch dub 18 Buick and dub 16 nose) right above him.

Now if you take that into consideration with the other events, whether we’re taking about pipe or slope, you use the same system to figure out who should be ranked where. The reason this system is used instead of one like figure skating, or aerials, where there is a value based on a trick, is to keep the freeskiing element alive. We all know that the way Torin does a dub 12 mute in the pipe is different than the way a basic dub 12 mute is done, but if you have a value based system, they would be on the same scale.

I don’t want to get in the mud about who I think should have been ranked where, and what skier’s style should be considered better than another’s, mainly because as a judge, you have to remove all of your ski bias to be a fair and subjective as possible. That can be the hardest part of deciding who should come out on top. With that being said your favorite skier may not end up winning, even if you think they did the dopest shit ever.

I’m not here to make excuses for the judges, or even validate their decisions, just to give a little insight on what it’s actually like. And that being said, freeskiing need different opinions, different styles, different tricks, and everyone can relate to whatever they want to. I can tell you though that the guys and girls that are in those judging booths are some of the most passionate, and obsessed with skiing people around.

The system was created to have a “panel of your peers”, and the judges have and will continue to have an open line of communication with the athletes. The goal is to get the results that the general consensus of the athletes with agree with, and they’re 100% encouraged to share their opinion with the judges and have discussions with that on what they want to see happen in these events.

Im not saying it’s a perfect system by any means, and it is beyond difficult to think that 3-5 peoples opinions decide who wins these contests. And as a few people suggested, fan voting doesn’t work, just ask PK about that.

If you want to have a voice in skiing, or you think you could help the sport go in the “right” direction or do a better job, get up from behind you keyboard or your Instagram comments and sign up for a judging clinic. Skiing needs as many voices as possible to keep it free.

 

[TRVP_ANGEL]

Well said, at the end of the day, we all agree that the judging system will always be flawed, but that doesn't mean we can't improve on it. The system has had plenty of overhauls and experiments in the past decade. We're moving in the right direction. I encourage people to checkout the judging format for the YETI natural selection for snowboarding that is going on right now. It's using a seeded 1v1 qualifier format with a tiebreaker which is something completely different than what xgames is doing.

**This post was edited on Feb 4th 2021 at 3:34:39pm

 

[SeaUrchin123]

Thanks for more color on the judging process this year. Just curious, how was the Knuckle Huck event judged? Even die-hard EDollo fans can admit that Jesper had the edge over him...

Anyways, long live goodenoughBGK

 

[p.arneson]

Thanks for more color on the judging process this year. Just curious, how was the Knuckle Huck event judged? Even die-hard EDollo fans can admit that Jesper had the edge over him...

Anyways, long live goodenoughBGK

So without being in that judging booth, I can’t necessarily give you a definitive answer. Knuckle huck as a contest has a pretty loose format for the skiing, as well as the judging. The skiers can do whatever they think would be cool, using everything but the big air jump itself, essentially haha. The judging is just an overall of each skiers body of work. So looking at the results, henrik not only landed ever single trick he tried, he mixed up nose to tail butter, and also utilized the knuckle itself. Overall impression could be based on consistency of landed tricks, as well as the variety he showed. Jesper for sure did the most holy shit, what the fuck just happened tricks, but his overall body of work that night didn’t win in overall impression to the judges.

again I wasn’t on that panel, that’s just my perspective

goodenough bgk for lyfe

 

[sports*creel]

Brilliantly said Pete... thank you.

 

[Skier-Jon]

I feel as if judges usually make it pretty clear what they are looking for through their scoring and communication so if you aren't getting the scores you want you need to be talented enough to adjust your plan and head in a new direction, or you can get frustrated, but that isn't going to get you the score you want.

 

[nellyyy]

Skiing needs you back in the judges' booth, Pete. You always kept it really legit and were super accessible and honest with the athletes.

 

[p.arneson]

Skiing needs you back in the judges' booth, Pete. You always kept it really legit and were super accessible and honest with the athletes.

Skiing is in good hands with the crews that are around. It’s very hard to care so much about skiing, about getting the results correct, trying to make as many people happy as possible, but in the end of the day, not everyone wins, someone is going to disagree because of that. I may not of had thick enough skin for it, because there are results from 10 years ago that still drive me nuts, or comments from people you respected in the industry questioning your integrity or passion for the sport.

 

[fratskier69]

And as a few people suggested, fan voting doesn’t work, just ask PK about that.

[/quote]

Any young guns curious about what this is referring to: one year X games did fan voting. PK hunder did some NASTY dub 12 mutes (back when nobody was doing them), but Dumont won with a double front flip because it was a crowd pleaser

 

[p.arneson]

Any young guns curious about what this is referring to: one year X games did fan voting. PK hunder did some NASTY dub 12 mutes (back when nobody was doing them), but Dumont won with a double front flip because it was a crowd pleaser

also the first switch dub 12 landed in competition... poor PK haha

 

[hemlockjibber8]

Seems to me that the biggest issue with the big air format is that it is two combined scores. I’d prefer best trick wins. Big airs aren’t about consistency, unless it’s an elimination format. They are about doing the best trick.

 

[p.arneson]

Seems to me that the biggest issue with the big air format is that it is two combined scores. I’d prefer best trick wins. Big airs aren’t about consistency, unless it’s an elimination format. They are about doing the best trick.

I generally feel the same way.

the counter argument to that is that when you start compare single tricks, it becomes even more subjective. Everyone is so good, with such a variety of tricks, for example it is very hard to justify why a perfectly done switch dub 18 Buick is or isn’t better than a switch dub bio 18. If you break it down by criteria most of them can go either way, depending on if you think the axis, or the grab is more important in the progression of the sport. And again, in about 10 seconds.

with the 2nd trick you at least have something to differentiate the score, or add a slightly bigger sample size to the equation.

 

[CENTORE]

This perspective is awesome to hear and also the perfect counterpoint to the rabid fans perspective which is very important.

OP i'd be very curious to hear you breakdown the knucklehuck a little bit.

Personally I was watching with family who are not at all into the freestyle ski scene. All 5 of us were blown away by Jesper (and also Fabian Boesch who I don't think enough people have been talking about post event but I digress). Obviously a fan vote isn't a good solution, but it's certainly interesting when there seems to be a large majority across the board who all watched the event and disagree with certain results.

I'm not saying Henrik wasn't impressive in the knucklehuck, and I also think that his questionable move of not competing in slopestyle colored a lot of people's opinions this past weekend.

 

[p.arneson]

So without being in that judging booth, I can’t necessarily give you a definitive answer. Knuckle huck as a contest has a pretty loose format for the skiing, as well as the judging. The skiers can do whatever they think would be cool, using everything but the big air jump itself, essentially haha. The judging is just an overall of each skiers body of work. So looking at the results, henrik not only landed ever single trick he tried, he mixed up nose to tail butter, and also utilized the knuckle itself. Overall impression could be based on consistency of landed tricks, as well as the variety he showed. Jesper for sure did the most holy shit, what the fuck just happened tricks, but his overall body of work that night didn’t win in overall impression to the judges.

again I wasn’t on that panel, that’s just my perspective

goodenough bgk for lyfe

This perspective is awesome to hear and also the perfect counterpoint to the rabid fans perspective which is very important.

OP i'd be very curious to hear you breakdown the knucklehuck a little bit.

Personally I was watching with family who are not at all into the freestyle ski scene. All 5 of us were blown away by Jesper (and also Fabian Boesch who I don't think enough people have been talking about post event but I digress). Obviously a fan vote isn't a good solution, but it's certainly interesting when there seems to be a large majority across the board who all watched the event and disagree with certain results.

I'm not saying Henrik wasn't impressive in the knucklehuck, and I also think that his questionable move of not competing in slopestyle colored a lot of people's opinions this past weekend.

I kind of mentioned above in that previous comment. It’s hard to know what conversations were had between athletes and judges, or what the judges strategy was going in. I do think that going off of what the results were, that consistency and actual use of the knuckle was what they were looking for. And for sure, Jesper and Fabian were absolutely electric, there were plenty of “what the fuck!”s thrown around my living room when I was watching them too, which scared my dogs haha.

Everyone has their right to a different opinion on who’s skiing they liked more, and that’s the best part about freeskiing, nobody is saying you have to do it one way or another. The judges job is to try to determine who skied the best based on the criteria given, and if you take that into consideration when watching, you may have a different perspective.

**This post was edited on Feb 5th 2021 at 12:24:46am

 

[CENTORE]

This perspective is awesome to hear and also the perfect counterpoint to that of the rabid fans perspective which is very important.

OP i'd be very curious to hear you breakdown the knucklehuck a little bit.

Personally I was watching with family who are not at all into the freestyle ski scene. All 5 of us were blown away by Jesper (and also Fabian Boesch who I don't think enough people have been talking about post event but I digress). Obviously a fan vote isn't a good solution, but it's certainly interesting when there seems to be a large majority across the board who all watched the event and disagree with the results, especially in an event like knucklehuck where the winner is based on "overall impression".

I'm not saying Henrik wasn't impressive in the knucklehuck, and I also think that his questionable move of not competing in slopestyle colored a lot of people's opinions this past weekend, but to speak out of fan bias, he seemed to be playing it extremely safe and in his wheelhouse.

Xgames has always been a place where innovation, progression , and creativity have been rewarded, and I feel like an event like knucklehuck is the perfect embodiment of that spirit. I could be totally wrong and hung up on the overall impression thing but it seems like the judging definitely fell a bit short here.

 

[p.arneson]

Xgames has always been a place where innovation, progression , and creativity have been rewarded, and I feel like an event like knucklehuck is the perfect embodiment of that spirit. I could be totally wrong and hung up on the overall impression thing but it seems like the judging definitely fell a bit short here.[/quote]

And that’s a great point. Maybe from my point of view the way that Ahall used the course and the knuckle was the most creative and innovative way. Nothing like what the other guys were doing, one foot Tokyo drifts, transfer “almost” tail tap late 3. And that’s the hardest part about judging a contest like that. If they had decided going into it that use of the knuckle itself, over airing over the knuckle was more important, than you can understand their decision. If they wanted to see big over the knuckle tricks, they may have gone the other way.

progression is viewed in a lot of different ways, some could argue doing switch double backflips, without grabs, front flip to barani would almost be a regression to the sport, regardless of how gnarly and huge it was.

with such an open format, there’s a huge margin for what’s the right way to do it.

**This post was edited on Feb 5th 2021 at 12:48:14am

 

[CENTORE]

Maybe from my point of view the way that Ahall used the course and the knuckle was the most creative and innovative way. Nothing like what the other guys were doing, one foot Tokyo drifts, transfer “almost” tail tap late 3. And that’s the hardest part about judging a contest like that. If they had decided going into it that use of the knuckle itself, over airing over the knuckle was more important, than you can understand their decision. If they wanted to see big over the knuckle tricks, they may have gone the other way.

progression is viewed in a lot of different ways, some could argue doing switch double backflips, without grabs, front flip to barani would almost be a regression to the sport, regardless of how gnarly and huge it was.

with such an open format, there’s a huge margin for what’s the right way to do it.

100% agree with all of that. not here to shit on the judges so saying they fell short may have been a bit out of pocket..I know personally I could never stay objective and accurately judge an event like this especially so rapidly. Love good discussion and insight like this.

**Also would like to formally apologize to everyone in the thread for the double post, had no idea the first one went through i was still editing**

 

[doubleblackjack]

I dont think you can write an open letter without saying “best wishes, John Green”

**This post was edited on Feb 5th 2021 at 8:31:05am

 

[skierman]

TLR

Henrik is god, the judges are fucking assholes and the X-Games is run by California chad bros.

 

[hemlockjibber8]

I completely agree that it makes it easier to judge but it’s not the right solution imo. When I judged FWQ and Jr comps, you would sometimes be praying that one of the top two guys would have a crash at the end of their second run just to make the judging easier and make the placement easier to justify. And that was with a very, very structured scoring system that we could break down and explain to people. And in an event that you could really argue the most consistent is the best.

It sounds like they need to value uniqueness higher, as it is a foundation of this sport. They probably need to give a little more time to judge too, since that complaint is a recurring theme. Judging is tough.

I generally feel the same way.

the counter argument to that is that when you start compare single tricks, it becomes even more subjective. Everyone is so good, with such a variety of tricks, for example it is very hard to justify why a perfectly done switch dub 18 Buick is or isn’t better than a switch dub bio 18. If you break it down by criteria most of them can go either way, depending on if you think the axis, or the grab is more important in the progression of the sport. And again, in about 10 seconds.

with the 2nd trick you at least have something to differentiate the score, or add a slightly bigger sample size to the equation.

 

[p.arneson]

I completely agree that it makes it easier to judge but it’s not the right solution imo. When I judged FWQ and Jr comps, you would sometimes be praying that one of the top two guys would have a crash at the end of their second run just to make the judging easier and make the placement easier to justify. And that was with a very, very structured scoring system that we could break down and explain to people. And in an event that you could really argue the most consistent is the best.

It sounds like they need to value uniqueness higher, as it is a foundation of this sport. They probably need to give a little more time to judge too, since that complaint is a recurring theme. Judging is tough.

My take personally has always been it’s big air, not slope, it should be 1 trick. I was explaining the reasoning why the format is 2, and that was decided by the competitors, coaches and events.

if it’s a one trick comp, rank these tricks:

sw trip 14 octo to octo

sw trip 14 pre nose

sw dub 18 buick

sw dub bio 18 safety

trip 16 safety, set 18 stop to 16

sw dub 18 lead tail

trip 19 mute

dub 16 nose

trip 16 nose mute

 

[p.arneson]

My take personally has always been it’s big air, not slope, it should be 1 trick. I was explaining the reasoning why the format is 2, and that was decided by the competitors, coaches and events.

if it’s a one trick comp, rank these tricks:

sw trip 14 octo to octo

sw trip 14 pre nose

sw dub 18 buick

sw dub bio 18 safety

trip 16 safety, set 18 stop to 16

sw dub 18 lead tail

trip 19 mute

dub 16 nose

trip 16 nose mute

Sorry, trip 12 safety, set trip 14 bring back

Got caught up in the big numbers haha

 

[PeteMahn]

My take personally has always been it’s big air, not slope, it should be 1 trick. I was explaining the reasoning why the format is 2, and that was decided by the competitors, coaches and events.

if it’s a one trick comp, rank these tricks:

sw trip 14 octo to octo

sw trip 14 pre nose

sw dub 18 buick

sw dub bio 18 safety

trip 16 safety, set 18 stop to 16

sw dub 18 lead tail

trip 19 mute

dub 16 nose

trip 16 nose mute

Personally ranking tricks is bullshit. Execution is the most important part of the trick. How did the landing look, were their arms all over the place, how was there composure on takeoff, in the air and when they landed. You can do really difficult tech tricks but the deciding factor should be based on execution when comparing tricks.

 

[p.arneson]

Personally ranking tricks is bullshit. Execution is the most important part of the trick. How did the landing look, were their arms all over the place, how was there composure on takeoff, in the air and when they landed. You can do really difficult tech tricks but the deciding factor should be based on execution when comparing tricks.

Execution is definitely important, hence why it is part of the criteria, but should it outweigh all the rest of the criteria?

For example, in 2013 should Kai mahler’s perfectly executed (IMO) switch double misty 14 mute have scored higher than henrik’s nose butter triple with the slight bobble in the landing?

 

[Dan-Man]

Nice thread Pete!

didn't know you stopped judging. I hope getting out of the booth has got you more time on the hill, cuz that is very important!!

 

[PeteMahn]

Execution is definitely important, hence why it is part of the criteria, but should it outweigh all the rest of the criteria?

For example, in 2013 should Kai mahler’s perfectly executed (IMO) switch double misty 14 mute have scored higher than henrik’s nose butter triple with the slight bobble in the landing?

This is a perfect example as you're comparing two tricks that were performed not just saying compare these tricks. In order to compare tricks you need examples and not just a list like the one you posted above. There's a big difference between tricks o paper and them being executed/landed, then it's much easier to compared them to each other.

 

[p.arneson]

This is a perfect example as you're comparing two tricks that were performed not just saying compare these tricks. In order to compare tricks you need examples and not just a list like the one you posted above. There's a big difference between tricks o paper and them being executed/landed, then it's much easier to compared them to each other.

The list of tricks above are all tricks from big air, which with the internet I’m sure you’re fully capable if watching each one to compare. And yes, to find where a trick in a contest is ranked you compare one to another using the criteria, which includes how well or not well it’s executed.

You also didn’t answer my question about those two tricks in 2013

**This post was edited on Feb 6th 2021 at 2:26:35pm

 

[tutipups]

Open letter to freeskiing: judging

There have been a lot of questions and comments regarding the judging in aspen, especially after the results of big air and knuckle huck.

I’ll start by at least giving you my credentials so you don’t think I’m completely full of shit. I’ve judged XGAMES 8 times, 6 in Aspen, and 2 Euro X, as well as dozens of FIS events. I stopped judging in 2018 and started announcing dew tour as well as live venue announcing at x games.

Thought I’d maybe share some perspective that a lot of people don’t necessarily know or think about from the judges booth.

A lot of the questions have come after the results of big air, and why people ending up being ranked where they were. We’ll start with the scoring system. This year there were 3 scoring judges, normally 5 and a head judge. The judges score on a scale from 0-15, all 3 judges scores are added up, plus 5 points to get a score out of 50. The scores are only used as a tool to find a ranking, so they don’t necessarily matter, as long as the ranking is correct. That being said, when you have a contest with more that 15 tricks, but only 15 points to give, they’re already working with a flawed system. The judges use criteria to find the ranking, execution, variety, combinations, amplitude and progression, which then is used to get an “overall impression” of what is done. They use that criteria to decide which trick is ranked where. Now consider that scoring system, and that criteria, and you have to do all of that it at the most, 10 seconds during big air, while remembering what other tricks have already been done and comparing them. Buy air is also a 2 jump format at x, where each skier has their 2 best, different tricks scored. ABM for example did one of the best single tricks of the contest with the switch triple 14, lead octo to trailing octo, which received one of the highest scores given out. But his other trick, dub bio 10 breeby, wasn’t enough to compare to ahall’s two tricks (switch dub 18 Buick and dub 16 nose) right above him.

Now if you take that into consideration with the other events, whether we’re taking about pipe or slope, you use the same system to figure out who should be ranked where. The reason this system is used instead of one like figure skating, or aerials, where there is a value based on a trick, is to keep the freeskiing element alive. We all know that the way Torin does a dub 12 mute in the pipe is different than the way a basic dub 12 mute is done, but if you have a value based system, they would be on the same scale.

I don’t want to get in the mud about who I think should have been ranked where, and what skier’s style should be considered better than another’s, mainly because as a judge, you have to remove all of your ski bias to be a fair and subjective as possible. That can be the hardest part of deciding who should come out on top. With that being said your favorite skier may not end up winning, even if you think they did the dopest shit ever.

I’m not here to make excuses for the judges, or even validate their decisions, just to give a little insight on what it’s actually like. And that being said, freeskiing need different opinions, different styles, different tricks, and everyone can relate to whatever they want to. I can tell you though that the guys and girls that are in those judging booths are some of the most passionate, and obsessed with skiing people around.

The system was created to have a “panel of your peers”, and the judges have and will continue to have an open line of communication with the athletes. The goal is to get the results that the general consensus of the athletes with agree with, and they’re 100% encouraged to share their opinion with the judges and have discussions with that on what they want to see happen in these events.

Im not saying it’s a perfect system by any means, and it is beyond difficult to think that 3-5 peoples opinions decide who wins these contests. And as a few people suggested, fan voting doesn’t work, just ask PK about that.

If you want to have a voice in skiing, or you think you could help the sport go in the “right” direction or do a better job, get up from behind you keyboard or your Instagram comments and sign up for a judging clinic. Skiing needs as many voices as possible to keep it free.

The problem is style matters so much so judging becomes almost impossible

 

[clorox]

Today I saw a judge in a slope comp refer to a nosebutter 3 off a jump as a "knuckle huck"

 

[PeteMahn]

The list of tricks above are all tricks from big air, which with the internet I’m sure you’re fully capable if watching each one to compare. And yes, to find where a trick in a contest is ranked you compare one to another using the criteria, which includes how well or not well it’s executed.

You also didn’t answer my question about those two tricks in 2013

**This post was edited on Feb 6th 2021 at 2:26:35pm

The list doesn't mean shit, the tricks need to be done in the same comp to be compared to each other. With all the variables including the weather, wind factor, the jump, the in run, you can't compare different tricks done in different comps to each other. As far as the example with Henrik and Khai the higher soring trick is the nose butter triple. Due to the execution of the triple I would score it lower based on the landing if it was a normal triple; so I would give Khai a higher score. Since he nosebuttered on the takeoff then it would be scored higher.

This is how I judge a trick with these 5 categories, Style/Execution, Creativity, Originality, Technicality, and risk/amplitude. At that time no one was doing nosebutter's especially on jumps and in comps so that's both going to score higher with creativity and originality it's also technical as sending a nose butter at that speed and on that large of a feature is really gnarly. Lastly he went huge so that's going to score higher in a risk/going big category, though the execution wasn't perfect it would still core higher than Khai. That being said I will only compare trick done in the same comp as I think that's how it should be done as there are so many variables.

 

[hemlockjibber8]

I’m in total agreement with you on everything. It’s interesting competitors chose two tricks though.

Im not going to, but you should theoretically be able to rank tricks or at least have a system to differentiate between two equally executed tricks. In FWQ, We give all the obvious cliffs a score and then when someone hits it differently, we have a scale to base our improvisation off of.

But there are so many variables, you’re hardly ever straight computing these numbers. Hopefully though, it’s agreed that more spins are harder, weird axis are harder, triples that are a cork 7 to two wack flips are not as cool, weird grabs are harder, and that executing it showing that you have enough control to take off carving, land carving, shifty into your landing rather than spread eagle, and add tweaks to your grabs is the best of all.

Kind of joking but not really. I agree with what you’re saying. Two runs makes it easier to judge but to me doesn’t reflect a true big air.

My take personally has always been it’s big air, not slope, it should be 1 trick. I was explaining the reasoning why the format is 2, and that was decided by the competitors, coaches and events.

if it’s a one trick comp, rank these tricks:

sw trip 14 octo to octo

sw trip 14 pre nose

sw dub 18 buick

sw dub bio 18 safety

trip 16 safety, set 18 stop to 16

sw dub 18 lead tail

trip 19 mute

dub 16 nose

trip 16 nose mute

 

[p.arneson]

The list doesn't mean shit, the tricks need to be done in the same comp to be compared to each other. With all the variables including the weather, wind factor, the jump, the in run, you can't compare different tricks done in different comps to each other. As far as the example with Henrik and Khai the higher soring trick is the nose butter triple. Due to the execution of the triple I would score it lower based on the landing if it was a normal triple; so I would give Khai a higher score. Since he nosebuttered on the takeoff then it would be scored higher.

This is how I judge a trick with these 5 categories, Style/Execution, Creativity, Originality, Technicality, and risk/amplitude. At that time no one was doing nosebutter's especially on jumps and in comps so that's both going to score higher with creativity and originality it's also technical as sending a nose butter at that speed and on that large of a feature is really gnarly. Lastly he went huge so that's going to score higher in a risk/going big category, though the execution wasn't perfect it would still core higher than Khai. That being said I will only compare trick done in the same comp as I think that's how it should be done as there are so many variables.

The list of tricks was all from the same contest, Aspen xgames 2021 big air, all done the same night.

I agree you can’t compare tricks at random, hence why that list, that apparently doesn’t mean shit, is all from one jam session. I completely understand why you wouldn’t want to try to rank them, it’s not easy. But since you said you would only compare tricks done in the same comp, that list is there.

**This post was edited on Feb 6th 2021 at 8:32:46pm

 

[Burrito]

I think a lot of this particular controversy comes down to a couple of things that are just unknowable without being inside all of the judges' heads in the moment.

1. What do the judges consider "good" or "bad" style on that particular day? As mind melting as some of Jesper's Knuckle Huck tricks were, he did most of them with a penciled out, almost aerial style. I gotta believe that was intentional on Jesper's part, but if it wasn't what the judges were looking for (and I could easily see it not being that as it's a style freeskiing has hated on for so many years) it's reasonable for them to reward Henrik's relaxed, smooth as silk butters. Unfortunately style notes, being so subjective and wide-ranging, aren't something judges can easily give to the athletes beforehand.

2. How big of a role do execution and intention play? Henrik slid a foot out landing his dub 18. Jesper probably didn't intend to tip tap that dub backie. Henrik slides a foot out all the time when he lands, and it's rarely hurt him in past competitions. The tip tap, intentional or not, made that trick 1000x more impressive. But if they judges were specifically looking for flawless execution of your intended trick, it's reasonable for them to dock both. If that's the case, though, it's something that should be made incredibly clear to the athletes beforehand.

My two cents: This is all part of judged competitions and always will be. Sometimes they get it right. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes there are arguments to be made on both sides. I specifically remember being dumbfounded one year when Tanner won pipe over Simon, but even more pissed when the crowd boo-ed Tanner and threw snowballs at him during his victory lap - as if it was somehow his fault Simon got underscored.

For my money the bio axis made Henrik's switch dub 18 the trick of the night in Big Air, sloppy landing be damned, and the tip tap made Jesper's switch dub backie the trick of Knuckle Huck. Does that mean either should have won the larger comp? Who knows.