Since everyone's so damn political

J.D.

Active member
Staff member
Maybe you can give me some ideas here solving a political problem. I have to draft a statute. Like a law. Here's the gist:

If your company is going bankrupt or is about to, you hire a trustee (who is hired privately but licensed by the government and considered an officer of the court) to run your business short-term until its fate is decided (ie, another company buys it).

So here's the problem: When managing a company that's floundering as trustees do, sometimes it helps to lay off some employees or do other things to trim down costs. But under BC labour laws the trustee is regarded exactly the same way a new owner would be. So if the company coffers don't have enough money to pay for pensions or severance pay for the laid-off workers, or any other costs that might come up while the trustee is running the business, he is personally liable to pay the balance.

Since trustees are a good thing and keep businesses afloat, we want to promote them being able to do their job without having to worry about being stuck with the costs of keeping a business afloat without getting the benefits (which go to whoever ends up buying it, usually). BUT we also don't want trustees to be completely unaccountable for what they do, either (i.e. that they fire all the employees without any cost and screw those employees over completely with regard to severance payments).

So I need a solution that takes both sides of this into account: doesn't put trustees' financial survival on the line, but also supports labour. What do you all think?
 
If there isn't enough money to pay for layoffs, instead of making the trustee liable, just rehire the people you cant afford to fire.

Of course if you can't afford to fire them, i dunno how they'd continue to be paid. Stock options?
 
"According to the standard accepted theory, the Clovis people crossed the Beringia land bridge over the Bering Strait from Siberia to Alaska during the period of lowered sea levels during the ice age, then made their way southward through an ice-free corridor east of the Rocky Mountains in present-day western Canada as the glaciers retreated."

google makes everything too easy
 
make a law for companies to create an escrow account with say 1-3% of what the company makes each quarter. Make them do this when they go into buisness, and then if they ever have to bail and someone else buys it, there's a legal net underneath the workers, and then they just continue that practice when they buy it.
 
Dude, reward the trustee with stock options (so he has interest in the company's wellbeing) and deduct a fair percentage of the lost wages from the incentive package (so he can't screw over the employees. This balance should not be negative, and if it we're the trustee's conduct should definately come under review.

Sounds like a start to me.

 
Jake I actually like that, but some people are going to complain that it's technically another tax, government interference in the private sector making it harder for business to function and consequently damaging the economy and etc etc etc. But it's not a bad idea in principle and I'm not sure mine's better, since it involves the government too.
 
Interesting. Who's doing the reviewing though? Also, there will be many instances where the value of the stock is essentially zero. Also I can see possibility of abuse by which the trustee does what he can to make the stock spike short-term without regard for the long-term good of the company. But mostly the problem comes down to, who's overseeing this process and how do they go about determining when to reward a trustee and when to penalize him?
 
screw the government then. go back to old west rules. some guys an asshole and screws over all of the employees and bails on the business scott free, just have a group of guys who shoot guns really well go and kill them. seriously, you could just black bag them, throw them in a white rental van, and drive them into the desert and kick them out. then seize their assets.

I think that's already been allowed in my country though...
 
its basically impossible for there to be a "perfect" solution, which is what you are looking for. there will always be some sort of flaws, no matter how large or small. so your question is almost impossible to answer correctly.
 
If the value of the stock was essentially 0 at the time of the trustee taking over, then the number of shares he would recieve in compensation would be much higher. This would the company's eventual potential recovery even more rewarding.

These stocks could have a condition on them in which they could not be cashed in until a certain period of time has elasped. This takes care of short term manipulation.

And even with these incentives the trustee is utterly incompetant and manages to earn no money and destroys the company, the review board could be comprised of shareholders, employees representatives, and an impartial committee with experience in the field.

All this board could do really is tell the trustee he his a moron, wasted great potential profit, and never give him the opportunity again.
 
"Correctly" just means, give me a solution that answers the problems involved. No one said anything about a perfect solution, which tend not to exist in the real world.
 
This seems to me like it would be more of a disincentive to even HIRE a trustee than anyone else, since you're not just temporarily handing business functions over to him, but permanently giving him a (possibly very large) share of the company's value depending on that company's worth. Which is sort of counterproductive.

Regarding Volklpro's idea for a fund to support the company: I'm thinking you don't make this mandatory for all companies, but make it a necessary condition for getting a license for hiring a trustee. At any point you can get this license, it just means you have to add those funds to the account retroactively, as if you'd had it all along. The problem here as I see it is that really you're still only taking money out of the company that eventually doesn't have any; that is, the company needing and providing the funding in question is the same company. But it's still worth pursuing I think.
 
Honestly, I really do believe i could run the country better than Bush. That doesn't mean I have an immediate answer for every problem, but that's what your carefully selected staff/cabinet members are for.

 
you have to define what kind of companies have to do it. labor laws generally regard people who work in environments where they regularly are some sort of union right?

so if it's a company with unionized employees then make it mandatory that the money is put aside. The unions will be happy then because it always protects them and they might not be such bitches about their wages. and then the company will stay productive and have less chance of failing due to anything but loss of demand for whatever product they make and in that scenario there is that escrow money to pay out the employees while ownership is in limbo and the factories/whatever need to continue running it would be possible at no cost to the new owner and the previous owner can continue on to go ruin other businesses as is the nature of upper management.
 
Okay, well in any case the trustees' financial survival will not be on the line because a trustee is not under obligation to carry on the business of the bankrupt if in his opinion the realizable value of the property of the bankrupt is insufficient to protect him fully against possible loss or if the creditors or inspectors refuse to secure him against such loss. Also in court an order may be made so that the trustee is reimbursed for all costs that may have accumulated during advancement for the benefit of the 'estate'.

Regarding increasing job safety, do a little bit of research on Pat Martin's motion in 2004 to change Canada's bankruptcy laws so that they would offer more protection for wages and stuff. I believe in Ontario offers some limited pension protection for employees of bankrupt companies (something like max $1000 per month by the Ontario Fund).

Good luck with your statute :D

 
Put a cap on the potential earnings. If the company rebounded everyone would be benefiting from it.

It would be the fault of the people writing the terms of the trustee's contract if he was rewarded in a disproportional amount.

Obviously there is no way for ME to tell you the number of stock options/size of maximum compensation because we don't even have a real company that this situation is based on.
 
Ok, but remember this is supposed to be a legal solution: a statute. So we're making a general rule here and not one which applies to a specific company. In other words, we HAVE to come up with a method to determine where the cap is on potential earnings and so forth.
 
This cap could be negotiated between the trustee and those who have an interest in the company's wellbeing (employees, shareholders).

The trustee's credentials would come into play here in the potential compensation, and the company could find the person who fit their needs best. Makes sense to shop around.
 
Ok so how do I legislate that. Because it sounds like negotiating procedures that the company and trustee (who is privately hired remember) could take or leave. Like they could say, "fuck it, let's do it the way we always have and ignore all these new ideas about sliding earning scales". What do I put in the law?
 
1.Require that the compensation package include incentive for the company's eventual recovery. (stock options, etc.)

2.Require that the package includes penalties for lost wages/jobs so that the recovery is not for shareholders at the expense of employees. We're looking for balance here.

3.The exact terms of the compensation/penalties is to be negotiated by the company and the trustee since this would ultimately depend on the value of the company/ qualifications of the trustee.

What your looking for here is a way to give the trustee incentive to do a good job while not putting an undue burden on him. Ultimately it's the company's decision on who to choose and how much to reward him for under these terms.

All you want here are guidelines, not a specific forumla. We're dealing with private enterprise.
 
Seriously this could produce some good ideas so although I'm going to work now please continue to post and hopefully I'll have to reexamine my opinion of NSG. Dude who was annoyed earlier, what's your idea?
 
I hear all this talk of stock options. So what happens if the company goes belly up despite all the best efforts? So the company goes bankrupt and all the trustee gets is a lower paycheck and a set of stock options that aren't as valuable as the paper they're printed on? Not all companies go bankrupt because of incompetence, its often circumstantial, especially if the business is already in the red. If the business is forced to liquidate, the trustee gets very little (assuming the legal environment of business in Canada is anything like the US). As a major in business, I wouldn't touch that trustee position with a ten foot pole. Could the trustee have some benefit as a creditor?
 
sorry, but i usually come to the non-ski gabber to not think and be dumbed-down by the chit chat. also most people who read that probably read the first sentence and said "uhhhhh what?"
 
Include a provision for minimum compensation along with the maximum, provided the review board of relavent parties doesn't find evidence of misconduct.

The best solutions are usually the simplest, and pretty obvious.
 
The first thing that did pop into my head was something about a base salary with a commission on top. But I wonder if that would be enough incentive, especially if the balance sheet looks bleak.
 
...It also could depend upon how salary works in Canada. I honestly have no clue how law dictates business in that country. I probably don't have enough knowledge of the situation to give a fair answer.
 
he's got it!

you hire some showgirls and whenever a trustee does something good they give him a lapdance... for something really really a trustee does you could get some hookers and get some Bj's going out

only problem is the hookers would have to come out of government spending, but personally id be willing to raise taxes over this pressing of an issue
 
you do have a point here. way too many kids on this site go hog wild (one way or the other - left or right - conservative or liberal - democrat or republican) when it comes to politics. if one thing really ticks me off, its people who talk about something in complete ignorance to whats really going on. it just makes you look like an idiot...
 
I don't have a lot of time to read and comprehend everyhting that has been said in this thread. I also don't know much about buisness as such. But it seems to me like this doesn't need to be handled by the government, but rather could be handled by the person hiring the trustee. 

The way I am thinking about it is that the trustee is hired by the buisness owner, and that is where the money is coming from. If a worker at McDonalds does a shitty job, he or she doesn't get paid. So, if the trustee doesn't do a good job with the management of this buissness, then it seems like the contract should stipulate that no payment will be given to that person if they are losing the buissness owner money.

tell me if I'm not getting it. I hate buissness, but i like solving problems. and arguments. 
 
The thing that might not be clear to some people in this thread is that the main issue isn't between the company and the trustee, but between the trustee and the employees of that company, ie the people he's empowered to fire. We're trying to negotiate between insolvency and labour here. The business' previous and future owners' definition of a "good job" on the part of a trustee is going to be significantly different from Joe Smith who works on the 12th floor. The point is, how to make the trustee accountable for actions like firing everybody without severance, without going to the other extreme, wherein he can't do ANYTHING to help the company because he'll be personally liable for the resulting accrued severance and pensions(which might get up into the millions of dollars).
 
i don't even know why i looked at this thread. is this fun for you guys or something? it just seems like something i would want to recieve a grade for or some money.
 
The perhaps you would need the approval of the board and directors before you terminate anybody. Or you set up a separate panel specifically for that purpose. I'm not completely sure how you could grant more "rights" to the average worker without using up company resources. How else do you cut the budget? Trim down benefits (probably not gonna happen)? You could hire a consultant to evaluate the performance of each individual worker, though that costs more money.
 
You're looking at this in totally the wrong way. The solution needs to be a political one. That is, by passing a law. How it needs to be approached for these purposes is, what should go in a statute whose goal is to remedy this problem?
 
Well, Canada has some socialist elements. What about a statue that allows employees that were laid-off to some sort of benefit package? The package itself would be created by a fund that is taken out of the paycheck and also sponsored by taxes. Too much?
 
No, it's a solution, and it would work, the only problem being the hit to taxes which would be somewhat substantial, I'd prefer to limit that hit as much as possible.
 
Hey that's a thought. I have to figure out how to legislate it though.

Trustee/Labour Measures

This section applies to all companies listed on a major stock index, and mandates

(1) The creation and maintenance of an account from which only a licensed trustee can withdraw

(2) The amount of funds dedicated to this account per annum is to be between 1 and 3 percent of annual profits.

(2a)Fully one quarter of the annual deposit made into this account shall be deductible from (insert tax here?)

(3) Approval for the withdrawl of the funds as stipulated in subsections (1) and (2) must be obtained from the owner of the company in question.

Only with better language. Is there a better way to put that together?

 
I'm not very skilled with legal language, so bear with me here. You should make the distinction of withdrawing from the account at the end of the fiscal year rather than simply assuming it. Subsection (3) also should be tweaked a bit. Because if the company is on a "major stock index," I would assume that it has a lot more the a single owner? The approval of withdrawing from the account should probably come from the Board of Directors, because they act on behalf of the shareholders (owners). And maybe that tax itself would require mention in its own subsection?
 
I don't know enough about corporate to decide what they would deduct it from though. Ie which tax. So I'm not sure what to put there.
 
This should be a slight improvement.



Trustee/Labour Measures

This section applies to all companies incorporated, and mandates:

(1) The creation and maintenance of an account from which only a licensed trustee can withdraw;

(2) That the amount of funds dedicated to this account per annum is to be between 1 and 3 percent of annual profits, deposited at the end of each fiscal year;

(2a)That fully one quarter of the annual deposit made into this account shall be deductible from (insert appropriate tax here?)

(3) That approval for the withdrawl of the funds as stipulated in subsections (1) and (2) must be obtained by a trustee from the owner/board of directors of the company in question, unless otherwise agreed in contract between the company and trustee at the time of the latter’s hiring.

 
Okay. The provision should state that a company under certain financial and administrative constraints will receive a dollar % write off on federal and/or local taxes in order to allocate finances to an account that grants benefits to employees that are terminated if the company is forced to downsize. If you need to distinguish "constraints" and example could be having a gross profit be lower than a certain % of the company's net worth or annual gross profit.
 
I like that idea. Having the fate of the trustee linked to the laid of employee's will help keep power in check here.
 
im a little late, since it is the next day and all but ill go ahead and post anyways. i know what you mean, where there is no perfect solution. it just seems as though you are looking for that. what i mean is you are critiquing everyones solutions that would work fairly decent. i dont know im probably a little late but i just figured oh well.
 
My solution takes care of 2 problems.

Have the trustee take a little trip to the U.S. of A. Round up enough illegal immigrants out of this country (the U.S.). Send them to Canada to work for 1/2 the price that the Canadian workers were paid. Since we all know the U.S.'s illiegal immigrants are the hardest workers on this planet. The company will immediately stop going backrupt and soar in profit. Then once the company is doing very very well again, the trustee can fire all the illegal immigrants (since they have no souls) and re-hire all the old employees.

That takes care of the severence pay and the immigration problem in the U.S.
 
Hey J.D. this sounds a lot like the US's problem with hiring private fighting firms that are (were) in Iraq.

You know, the company going bankrupt is the US losing grip on the way, the firms are doing "good and all" but are being held accountable like old soldiers were, but many feel they aren't...sounds a lot like that.
 
This thread is over a month old! I have a new problem though, if you want.It's pretty much straight law though, and I doubt you'll want to read it. Here.

------------------------------------

Home Range Beef Inc. is a producer of beef and a packer of beef products that specializes in premium free-range beef. The company was incorporated under the Canada Business Corporations Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. C-44 (“CBCA”) in 1992. Home Range has one facility just outside Vancouver and another just outside of Toronto. The company is registered in British Columbia and has its headquarters in Vancouver. In 1998, Home Range made an initial public offering of common shares on the Toronto Stock Exchange (“TSX”). The company’s fiscal year for 2006 ended March 31, 2006.

In early July 2006 Home Range’s shares were trading at $10 per share. Home Range issued its annual report for the 2006 fiscal year on July 10, 2006. A forecast was included in the Management Discussion and Analysis (“MD&A”). The forecast stated that “management expects that Home Range will increase revenue in the 2007 fiscal year by at least 10% over the 2006 fiscal year”. The forecast also stated that management expected significant increases in earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization (“EBITDA”) and earnings per share (“EPS”) over the previous fiscal year. While this was the first time the company had made a forecast, the predictions were comparable to Home Range’s financial results from previous years. The forecast in the annual report included cautionary language that detailed several risk factors that could affect the accuracy of the estimated figures in the forecast. The forecast did not mention bovine spongiform enchaphalitis (“BSE” or “mad cow disease”) or disease in general as risk factors. It also contained the following disclaimer:

"This report contains certain forward-looking statements which reflect our current expectations with respect to future events and performance. Wherever used, the

words 'may', 'will', 'anticipate', 'intend', 'expect', 'plan', 'believe' and similar

expressions identify forward-looking statements. Forward-looking statements

should not be read as guarantees of future performance or results, and will not

necessarily be accurate indications of whether, or the times at which, such performance or results will be achieved. We are under no obligation (and we

expressly disclaim any such obligation) to update or alter the forward-looking

statements whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.

Forward-looking statements are based on information available at the time they

are made, assumptions made by management, and management's good faith

belief with respect to future events, and are subject to the risks and uncertainties

outlined in this analysis that could cause actual performance or results to differ

materially from those reflected in forward-looking statements, historical results or

current expectations."

Ronald Ribeye is the President and Chief Executive Officer of Home Range, and also one of its directors. Corinne T-Bone is the Vice-President Finance and the Chief Financial Officer of Home Range. Ribeye and T-Bone are Home Range’s principal managers. Ribeye and T-Bone did not trade in Home Range’s shares during the period of time in question.

In the spring of 2006, bovine flu was detected in Canada in buffalo being raised for meat. The virus was a strain that did not threaten the cattle of most domestic beef producers. Still, Home Range thought its cattle were more at risk to contract the virus than those of conventional producers because the cattle were allowed to free-range outside, where the buffalo roam. By June 2006, the threat of bovine flu to domestic cattle producers had grown more prominent. Approximately 100 kilometres from Home Range’s Vancouver facility, a small flock of domestic cattle contracted bovine flu and was destroyed. It could not be determined whether the strain of the virus contracted by the cattle was the same as the strain first identified, which was considered not especially virulent. One of Home Range’s Vancouver facility workers became ill with bovine flu. The worker had been buffalo hunting the week prior in the same region as the infected buffalo. Although neither the cattle at Home Range’s Vancouver facility, nor those of other producers in the area showed signs of infection, the incident demonstrated that transmission of bovine flu to humans was possible for at least one strain of the virus. Media coverage of the incident increased public awareness of the bovine flu in Canada.

By July 2006, the bovine flu pandemic became a significant health threat. A new, virulent strain of the virus surfaced and domestic herds of cattle became infected. Some herds near Home Range’s operations had to be destroyed on July 25, 2006. Several farm workers who handled the infected cattle became seriously ill. When bovine flu was first detected in the spring of 2006, Home Range decided that the threat required close attention. The company hired a renowned consultant with expertise in diseases affecting domestic animals. The consultant was hired, not only to advise Home Range in bovine flu matters, but also to assist the company in dealing with wildlife authorities and health protection authorities. When the situation became increasingly dire in July, Home Range confined all of its free-range cattle to its barns to eliminate the possibility of interaction with infected buffalo or cattle. Home Range also vaccinated its entire flock of cattle against the newly discovered dangerous strain of the virus. This was the first time Home Range had to employ precautionary measures to all cattle at a particular facility or confine the herds continuously indoors. These safety precautions required significant additional cost of about 8% of normal production cost. None of these measures was disclosed by Home Range.

On July 28, 2006, Home Range released its interim financial statements for the first quarter, which included new MD&A. In this MD&A, Home Range did not update the original forecast. Despite Home Range’s actions to safeguard its cattle, the company still suffered financially because of the bovine flu. Its beef sales in August declined 15% and 40% of Home Range’s customer orders for the next 3 months were cancelled. The customers’ main concern was that they “could no longer sell Home Range’s products as ‘free-range’ when the cattle were in fact confined indoors in order to prevent infection.” To combat the impending disaster of an excess of unsold beef, on September 22, 2006, Home Range purchased a fox farm with the intention that the excess beef could be fed to the foxes. The vendor wanted to sell the farm because of a series of attacks by People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals in which his fencing had been cut through and large numbers of his foxes had escaped. Ribeye and T-Bone were optimistic that purchase of the farm would, in addition to providing a place unused beef could be utilized, diversify their risk and allow the company to realize its forecast. Home Range disclosed the acquisition in a press release on September 23, 2006 saying: "Home Range believes that this acquisition represents a diversification opportunity in an industry where Home Range can bring to bear its expertise in animal husbandry to create additional high-value products.". It made no mention of the feeding of unused beef to the foxes as a reason for the acquisition.

On October 4, 2006, a newspaper published its interview with a well-known market analyst who questioned the validity of Home Range’s July forecast in light of the bovine flu crisis. Home Range’s share price suffered a loss of 25% over the next two trading days. The analyst highlighted the unpopularity of beef generally, and identified two critical factors that could affect the appeal of Home Range’s free-range beef to its target customer base: the administration of antibiotics to the cattle and the confinement of the cattle to barns.

On October 13, 2006, Home Range issued a press release indicating that financial predictions in the current fiscal year were no longer accurate “due to the impact of the bovine flu pandemic”. The press release listed some negative consequences to Home Range that could be caused by the bovine flu. It was silent on the positive factors underlying management’s continued optimism. The release also indicated that management was no longer able to predict its financial results for the year, notwithstanding management’s optimistic viewpoint (internally) that the original forecast would be achieved.

At the end of October, the price of Home Range shares had stabilized at a new low of $5 per share. Ribeye and T-Bone still hoped the predictions would be satisfied, but they were concerned that the company could suffer criticism and legal liability should their optimistic stance prove erroneous. Ribeye and T-Bone had several reasons for their continued optimism. The farm in Toronto was largely unaffected, and customers in that region were not deterred from consuming beef. The bovine flu threat was negatively affecting sales and orders at the Vancouver operation, but the beef there had, so far, been protected. The consultant had advised that the threat would likely not last beyond the onset of winter. More importantly, management was of the opinion that a substantial profit could be realized by selling the pelts obtained from the fox farm acquisition.

Home Range was unable to charge the usual premium prices for the beef from Vancouver because much of it had to be frozen due to the market conditions at the time. Still, once the crisis had subsided, its Toronto operation was well positioned to take advantage of the increased demand for beef by charging higher prices. The increased prices more than compensated for the decreased margins from its beef in Vancouver. Home Range was also able to profit from the fox pelts. Luckily, the fox farm specialized in a type of pelt that was attracting very favourable attention from the international fashion world. The last quarter of the fiscal year was the best on record for Home Range, and as a result, its financial forecast was, in effect, achieved. At the end of December 2006, the share price had recovered and increased to roughly 110% of the share price existing at the time when the forecast was issued.

Your firm has been retained to advise on the merits of bringing a class action under the Ontario Securities Act for misrepresentation in disclosures. The class being considered are those persons who bought or sold shares of the company at any time from July 10, 2006 to October 31, 2006. Your principal, Ms. Analise Advocate has asked you to write a memorandum of statutory interpretation on section 138.3 & 138.4 of the Ontario Securities Act. [Ms. Advocate is writing a memorandum on class action proceedings and the provisions of the Securities Act dealing with damages and procedural matters, so you do not need to research or address those issues].
 
youre going to need to provide us with the relevant portions of sect. 138.3 & 138.4 of the Ontario Securities Act. I dont have that portion of canadian law memorized.
 
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