Sicko - watch it

CorkWormTurn

Active member
I'll be up front. I have always hated Michael Moore.

I just watched Sicko though. It's very worth watching, and if you're an American, I recommend you check it out.
 
You're missing the boat a lot. Our goverment is capitalist. Admittedly, all of them. Have you taken a single social studies class ever?

I also don't understand your statement about him playing on "American gullibility " to feed his rich lifestyle. If you're point is that he has successfully made money in the film industry, you're correct. But do you really think he makes his films for the sole purpose of becoming rich? I disagree with many of the things he's said, and a lot of the things in his past films, yet I never get the impression he doesn't believe in what he is saying and doing.

Why hasn't he covered obesity? Among other reasons, first and foremost - it's already been done, a few times. Fast food nation the book (and movie), supersize me (the documentary), among countless magazine articles, etc.

Anyway, I openly admitted I was very anti-Michael Moore before I saw his latest movie. Seeing it doens't change my opinions on what he's come out with in the past. However, people can grow, and learn from their mistakes. There are definitely things you can nit-pick about in his latest movie, but that hardly takes away from it.

Keep an open mind, and watch the movie. Download it off bittorrent, or wait til it is available. I'd be very surprised if it doesn't make you at least think twice about the American medical system.
 
michael moore's such an obnoxious pain in the ass. he never shuts the fuck up.

but i might check this out since you recommend it so much.
 
Im not going to see it because i refuse to give money to that jackass. But if i can find it for free somewhere i'll watch it for sure.
 
Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" was just a book. Yet it brought about enormous change in the meat packing industry, and brought better conditions for many workers.

Drawing public attention to a problem is a very important step toward effecting change.
 
Do you happen to remember that the "muckraker" journalists you learned about in social studies actually brought about significant social change?
 
here's a pizza

michael-moore-fugly.jpg


oh shit michael got there first
 
At least he is doing something.

I feel that his movies have helped the public better understand social issues and events.

His politics are middle left and republicans see this as a threat and so they smear him just like anyone else.

Calling someone fat is not a valid intellectual argument.
 
this is where you're wrong - it may not be intellectual, but it sure is hell is valid!

and I've heard great things about Sicko. Just like the other Michael Moore movies, if you watch them knowing that he's bound to exagerate at times, you'll be able to tell the general purpose of his movie and from that, gain a better understanding in that there is a problem in whatever social issue he is talking about.
 
I'm sorry, but with Sicko there can be no debate. the simple fact is, in America poor people are dying because of the simple fact that they are poor. this is intrinsictly wrong.

the NHS in the UK may not be the best health care service in the world, but, if i break my arm, etc, i can get it fixed for free, anywhere. this should be the case worldwide. the USA is one of the few places in the world where you have to pay to get hospital treatment. that's fucked up in my humble opinion.
 
i saw it and thought it was pretty good. he raised valid points. but i live in canada so all is well :)

seriously, it is fucked up that the USA just throws people out on the streets.
 
It's just hard to know where to start with the unbelievable load of crap you've posted in here. What, he was supposed to ask the cinemas to show BFC for free in a particular county? That's moronic. How does he have any control over that sort of thing? Incredibly dumb thing to say the first time, so compounded by repetition that I'm now hating which I didn't want to do when I came in here, I just wanted to see if anyone had seen it. I think I will, maybe next week. I expect it to be completely one-sided, overly simplistic, unburdened by much statistical evidence, and most entertaining nonetheless.
 
i like him and i'm glad he does what he does. for you people who hate him because he is fat or making money from his movies..just shut up, you shouldn't be commenting here.
 
I have nothing against moore. At least hes not hateful, like Ann Coulter or something...

I agree with him though. There should be a change in the U.S. medical system. My friend was denied treatment on his ACL 4 times last year because it "wasnt necessary".

They basically told him that because he could still barely walk, that he didnt need surgury and that snowboarding wasnt a legit enough reason that they should offer him that treatment.

Luckily he finally fucking got it...

when he went to Canada...

Thank You Canada for being the awesome land of the Red, White.. and thats it. (same colours as the red cross yo!)
 
damn, that sucks. I'm lucky I have such amazing insurance, I guess. I've had 4 knee surgeries, all covered, no wait time, and only one of them was 'necessary' and I don't need a doc's referral to go to PT for 'personal training and knee strengthening.' I couldn't imagine having shitty insurance and being denied coverage.
 
Yeah. My friend was supposed to have good ass fucking insurance too. He had Kaisar first, and they denied him two different times. Then he switched to Blue Cross or something, and they pulled basically the same trick.. so he ended up just flying up to Toronto for surgury and paid something like 800 bucks for it all to be done... which is much better than paying the 10-20 grand to get it done here in California.
 
Yeah.. it was pretty fucking retarded.

He had to miss like 2 months of the season too because of the delays that he had till he got surgury.
 
im not really quite sure how i feel about that woman coming from detroit to scam our health care.

its my tax dollars, but she has cancer and she is also a mother. hmmmm.

i like how he interviewed people as an example to support the point of his movie, then ridiculed them for saying something anti-american. that confused me.
 
CNN tries to smear Moores Movie and gets owned. Tip: Next time do more research you noobs before you just air a poorly made smear video on national tv and own your entire network.

July 10th, 2007 12:19 am

'SiCKO' Truth Squad Sets CNN Straight

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN: "(Moore says) the

United States slipped to number 37 in the world's health care systems.

It's true. ... Moore brings a group of patients, including 9/11

workers, to Cuba and marvels at their free treatment and quality of

care. But hold on - that WHO list puts Cuba's health care system even

lower than the United States, coming in at #39."

THE TRUTH:

[*]"But hold on?" 'SiCKO' clearly shows the WHO

list, with the United States at number #37, and Cuba at #39. Right up

on the screen in big five-foot letters. It's even in the trailer! CNN should have its reporter see his eye doctor. The movie isn't hiding from this fact. Just the opposite.

[*]The

fact that the healthcare system in an impoverished nation crippled by

our decades-old blockade (including medical supplies and drugs) ranks

so closely to ours is more an indictment of the American system than

the Cuban system.

[*]Although Cuba ranks lower overall than

the United States, it still has a lower infant mortality rate and

longer life span. (see below)

[*]And unlike the

United States, Cuba offers healthcare to absolutely everyone. In an

independent Gallup poll conducted in Cuba, "a near unanimous 96 percent

of respondents say that health care in Cuba is accessible to everyone."

("Cubans Show Little Satisfaction with Opportunities and Individual

Freedom Rare Independent Survey Finds Large Majorities Are Still Proud

of Island's Health Care and Education," January 10, 2007.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brlatinamericara/

300.php?nid=&id=&pnt=300&lb=brla)


[/list]



CNN: "Moore asserts that the American health care

system spends $7,000 per person on health. Cuba spends $25 dollars per

person. Not true. But not too far off. The United States spends $6,096

per person, versus $229 per person in Cuba."

THE TRUTH:

[*]According to our own government – the

Department of Health and Human Services' National Health Expenditures

Projections – the United States will spend $7,092 per capita on health

in 2006 and $7,498 in 2007. (Department of Health and Human

Services Center for Medicare and Medicaid Expenditures, National Health

Expenditures Projections 2006-2016. http://www.cms.hhs.gov/NationalHealthExpendData/downloads/proj2006.pdf)


[*]As

for Cuba – Dr. Gupta and CNN need to watch 'SiCKO' first before

commenting on it. 'SiCKO' says Cuba spends $251 per person on health

care, not $25, as Gupta reports. And the BBC reports that Cuba's per

capita health expenditure is… $251! (Keeping Cuba Healthy, BBC, Aug. 1 2006. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/5232628.stm ) This is confirmed by the United Nations Human Development Report, 2006. Yup, Cuba spends $251 per person on health care. (http://hdr.undp.org/hdr2006/statistics/indicators/52.html).

As Gupta points out, the World Health Organization does calculate

Cuba's per capita health expenditure at $229 per person. We chose to

use the UN numbers, a minor difference - and $229 is a lot closer to

$251 than $25.

[/list]



CNN: In fact, Americans live just a little bit longer than Cubans on average.

THE TRUTH:

[*]Just the opposite. The 2006 United Nations

Human Development Report's human development index states the life

expectancy in the United States is 77.5 years. It is 77.6 years in

Cuba. (Human Development Report 2006, United Nations Development Programme, 2006 at 283. http://hdr.undp.org/hdr2006/pdfs/report/HDR06-complete.pdf)

[/list]



CNN: The United States ranks highest in patient satisfaction.

THE TRUTH:

[*]True, but even when the WHO took patient

satisfaction into account in its comprehensive review of the world's

health systems, we still came in at #37. ("World Health Organization Assesses The World's Health Systems," Press Release, WHO/44, June 21, 2000. http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2000/en/pr2000-44.html ).

[*]Patients

may be satisfied in America, but not everyone gets to be a patient. 47

million are uninsured and are rarely patients - until it's too late. In

the rest of the Western world, everyone and anyone can be a patient

because everyone is covered. (And don't face exclusions for

pre-existing conditions, co-pays, deductibles, and costly monthly

premiums).

[*]It's not that other countries are unhappy with

their health care – for example, "70 to 80 percent of Canadians find

their waiting times acceptable." ("Access to health care services

in Canada, Waiting times for specialized services (January to December

2005)," Statistics Canada, http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/82-575-XIE/82-575-XIE2006002.htm )


[/list]



CNN: Americans have shorter wait times than

everyone but Germans when seeking non-emergency elective procedures,

like hip replacement, cataract surgery, or knee repair.

THE TRUTH:

[*]This isn't the whole truth. CNN pulled out a statistic about elective

procedures. Of the six countries surveyed in that study (United States,

Canada, New Zealand, UK, Germany, Australia) only Canada had longer

waiting times than America for sick adults waiting to schedule a

doctor's appointment for a medical problem. 81% of patients in New

Zealand got a same or next-day appointment for a non-routine visit, 71%

in Britain, 69% in Germany, 66% in Australia, 47% in the U.S., and 36%

in Canada. (The Doc's in, but It'll be AWhile. Catherine Arnst, Business Week. June 22, 2007 http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2007/

tc20070621_716260_page_2.htm)


[*]"Gerard

Anderson, a Johns Hopkins health policy professor who has spent his

career examining the world's healthcare, said there are delays, but not

as many as conservatives state. In Canada, the United Kingdom and

France, 'three percent of hospital discharges had delays in treatment,'

Anderson told The Miami Herald. 'That's a relatively small number, and they're all elective surgeries, such as hip and knee replacement.' (John

Dorschner, "'SiCKO' film is set to spark debate; Reformers are gearing

up for 'Sicko,' the first major movie to examine America's often

maligned healthcare system,"
Miami Herald, June 29, 2007.)

[*]One

way America is able to achieve decent waiting times is that it leaves

47 million people out of the health care system entirely, unlike any

other Western country. When you remove 47 million people from the line,

your wait should be shorter. So why is the U.S. second to last in wait

times?

[*]And there are even more Americans who keep

themselves out of the system because of cost - in the United States, 24

percent of the population did not get medical care due to cost. That

number is 5 percent in Canada, and 3 percent in the UK. (Inequities in Health Care: A Five-Country Survey. Robert Blendon et al, Health Affairs. Exhibit 5. http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/21/3/182)

[/list]



CNN: (PAUL KECKLEY-Deloitte Health Care Analyst):

"The concept that care is free in France, in Canada, in Cuba - and it's

not. Those citizens pay for health services out of taxes. As a

proportion of their household income, it's a significant number …

(GUPTA): It's true that the French pay higher taxes, and so does nearly

every country ahead of the United States on that list."

THE TRUTH:

[*]'SiCKO' never claims that health care is

provided absolutely for free in other countries, without tax

contributions from citizens. Former MP Tony Benn reads from the NHS

founding pamphlet, which explicitly states that "this is not a charity.

You are paying for it mainly as taxpayers." 'SiCKO' also acknowledges

that the French are "drowning in taxes." Comparatively, many Americans

are drowning in insurance premiums, deductibles, co-pays and medical

debt and the resulting threat of bankruptcy – half of all bankruptcies

in the United States are triggered by medical bills. (Medical Bills Make up Half of Bankruptcies. Feb. 2005, MSNBC. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6895896/)

[/list]



CNN: "But even higher taxes don't guarantee the

coverage everyone wants … (KECKLEY): 15 to 20 percent of the population

will purchase services outside the system of care run by the

government."

THE TRUTH:

[*]It's not clear what country Keckley is

referring to. In the United Kingdom, only 11.5 percent of the

population has supplementary insurance, but it doesn't take the place

of NHS insurance. Nobody in France buys insurance that replaces

government insurance either, although a substantial amount buys some

form of complimentary insurance. ( Private health insurance and access to health care in the European Union. Spring 2004. http://www.euro.who.int/document/Obs/EuroObserver6_1.pdf)

[/list]



CNN: "But no matter how much Moore fudged the facts, and he did fudge some facts…"

[*]This is libel. There is not a single fact that

is "fudged" in the film. No one has proven a single fact in the film

wrong. We expect CNN to correct their mistakes on the air and to

apologize to their viewers.

[/list]

 
As a healthcare employee, and having worked alongside neurosurgeons and specialists at colleges and veterans hospitals, I would have to agree. Our nation's healthcare system is completely fucked. The only reason it hasnt disintegrated into chaos is because of the doctors and nurses that devote their lives to being in the hospital and caring for patients.
 
i didnt see the movie, but i find this hard to believe. my mom has cancer, and we had terrible health insurrance, which expired halfway through the treatment, and we switched and all to another one, but it seemed like there were so many organazations out there who would help pay for stuff, when we couldnt for various reasons.
 
seems like he cares less about the actual problems and more about showing his face and getting attention.
 
Well, thats kinda the goal of all documentaries... its to expose an issue and get it public. I dont care if he profits off of it, hell, its America, that shits encouraged. At least the issue is getting publicity.
 
Its no different than any other documentery in that sense, as its developed to entertain, inform, and grow awareness about a subject. If he wanted to show his face he would do a documentery about himself dude...

And of course he cares about the actual problems.. in fact, hes PASSIONATE about them. Just look at how he handles the media. He downright fights with people about these problems live on the air. he practically got into a fistfight with bill O about the war issue.

 
Thursday, July 26th, 2007

See the Movie, Start the Revolution ...a letter from Michael Moore

Friends,

I am overwhelmed by the response to "Sicko." And I'm not just talking

about all the wonderful, heart-felt letters you've sent me and the

stories you've shared with me about the abuse you've suffered from our

health care system.

No, I'm talking about how thousands of you are taking matters into

your own hands and using the movie to do something. From Seattle to New

England, each day I learn of numerous groups holding meetings or

dinners after the movie to discuss it and to plot a course for action.

A church in Plano, TX took its weekly bible study group to see "SiCKO."

70 people crammed into a Wisconsin coffee shop's back room. Groups are

plotting over pancakes in Illinois and microbrew in Missouri. E-mail

addresses are being exchanged in theater lobbies. A Connecticut group

is inviting legislators to see "Sicko" and keeping a tally on their website.

Local groups have been buying out theaters to have special screenings

for their members. Information tables are set up, literature is

distributed, action groups are formed.

It's all an amazing sight. I can't tell you how thrilled I am to see

the impact a movie can have. For all of you who have written me to ask,

"What can I do," well, read more about what others have done, and then try these simple steps:

1. Call or write you member of Congress right now

(I'll wait) and tell him or her that you insist they become a

co-sponsor of H.R. 676 -- "The United States National Health Insurance

Act." It's sponsored currently by Rep. John Conyers and 76 other

members of Congress. Insist that your congressperson be one of those

co-sponsors. I want to see 100 co-sponsors by Thanksgiving. Will you

help make that happen?

2. Call and write to each of the candidates running for President. Tell them you expect them to back H.R. 676, and to take the Senator Brown pledge. Sen. Sherrod Brown of Ohio refuses to accept his free, government-run health insurance until EVERY American is covered.

3. Organize your own local HealthCare-Now! coalition.

You can do it in your own neighborhood. It has to start somewhere.

Everyday people have to make this happen. Don't wait for someone else

to do this. Ask yourself, "if not me, who?"

4. Call your local media and tell them about your health care horror

story. Many papers and TV stations have been running these since

"Sicko" arrived in theaters. They like the local angle.

Tell them you saw the movie and that there's a "Sicko" story happening

right here in (fill in the blank). Tell them you are passing it on to

me.

Well, that's a start. Here's what I'm going to do. Because last

weekend's "Win a Trip to a Universal Healthcare Country" was so

successful (the winner will be announced next week), this weekend we're

going to try something different: it's "Take a Republican to 'Sicko!'"

C'mon, we all have a conservative in the family! They mean well. It's

just that they believe what they've been told about that scary

"socialized medicine." Treat them to the movie this weekend and tell

them to send me their ticket stub and entry form.

I will hold a drawing and the lucky winner will get to have me come to

their home and do their laundry -- just like in France! Now, what would

make a Republican happier than to see me working away in their laundry

room?!

I truly believe that the health care issue is one where we can find

some common ground with those who may hold different opinions than us.

After all, they're getting the shaft by the same insurance and

pharmaceutical companies we are. And sooner or later, they're not going

to take it any more, either.

Yours,

Michael Moore

mmflint@aol.com

MichaelMoore.com

P.S. I will be on Jay Leno (The Tonight Show on NBC) tonight

(Thursday) at 11:35pm ET/PT. I will be making a special announcement on

the show.

 
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