Should Uncle Sam Tax Churches?

soooooooo muuchhh retttarrrdddnneessss, the missionaries never wanted to convert people, sure they thought it would be nice if they had converted people, but there mission was to help people out by giving them medicine, healing their diseases giving them housing, helping them out in general. again NOT to convert people.
 
all that money is going back into the churches, its not like they have an extra budget that they keep in a bank dude.
 
learn up.

No one does something for nothing. Never have, never will.

Sure, they'd go in and offer help. You just needed to attend services and pray. And should you decide otherwise, you lose the help.
 
that is not true at all at least not for the missionaries a few hundred years ago, there are organizations that do that in the modern world, but you come to them you gotta accept their terms dude.
 
churches dont do charity work only through missions. The problem with the whole church and state thing is that the government is meant to represent the people. if the people are religious, then obviously their ideals are going to be reflected in the governing body. The purpose of separation of church and state was that no religion would be persecuted, not that there would be no influence from religion. Christians vote for Christians not so that they can rule the US and put down other religions (or lack there of), but instead to reflect their values in government (the entire point of a representative democracy). What do you think should happen, that there should be a law put into place that says that no religious person can be elected into office?
 
the definition of missionary is:

One who attempts to persuade or convert others to a particular program, doctrine, or set of principles; a propagandist.

And very rarely do those in need approach them first. And your last statement effectively proved my point.
 
residential schools? I am curious about what you would say about those. I know there are differences, but surely similarities in principle and those were just the worst
 
holy shit dude i used to work for my church over the summer when i was 14. they had their own credit card it's not some big secret ask your pastor he will tell you your church has a bank account with money in it.
 
very fair assessment, well done.

I perhaps should have specified my broad use of "influence." Of course people will vote for someone of their religion in an attempt to push forward their ideals. I meant more along the lines that it makes it impossible to pass laws that are unjustly beneficial to only one such group.

As in, we can have catholics dominate the government but they still can't pass laws that would literally force their beliefs on others.

I keep wanting to refer to abortion issues, but I really don't think this is the proper time nor thread for such a debate.
 
omygod your a fucktard, have you ever actually been helped by a missionary do you know how they work? do you know what a lot of missionaries do? a friend of mine who lives in a pit in peru now is a missionary and she is helping a community, they sure as hell dont deny that she came down there and gave them money and medicine, and yes she brought bibles hoping to convert more people, but she does not force religion onto people at all.

seriously dude just stop, the missionaries help people they do good things and give people food assistance and other things.

what about mother teresa, you think that people turned her down for what she did, helping people near the end of here death and praying for people before they died? no they did not, and thousands of people were inspired to help her.
 
and they do not use it for personal items, they use it to pay for church necessities and paying people. not tax worthy stuff.
 
I'm not saying they do not help a lot of people out. But you were trying to deny that they do it with no ulterior motive, which is absolutely false.

How about don't bring the bibles, and just help them? Isn't that the proper moral thing to do? Help anyone, regardless of who they are or what they believe in.
 
You can spend every dime you have as a Christian to support Christian candidates and Christian ideals in goverment, but that "political speech" should be subject to taxation.
 
haha this is not a matter of morality for bringing bibles or not, and as missionaries, they do try to spread the word of the lord, but not "force" it on them like you claim.
 
yeah god forbid we didn't buy pizza once a week or buy a cotton candy machine or bouncy castle for our carnival, or take the youth group out to Starbucks. WE NEEDED IT
 
and now that I think of it, charity work/donations are tax exemptions anyway...so they could just write them off on their taxes just as everyone else does.

So that would mean they pay just for the services provided by the government, which is very fair.
 
that is for the church as a whole not a personal single use. so why should the church be taxed then if they use all their money for helping out their community? your arguments are invalid.
 
what you mean there electricity heating and water bills? a church is considered a public building so it cant really be taxed for property means...
 
no as always you have no idea what you are talking about. I've seen the balance, and i know how much money has been in there. I also know how much was donated and since i understand taxes i know a lot of it would be deducted. from you post you clearly have no idea how taxes work or how a church deals with or makes it's money, or what that money goes to. It would not cripple the church you will all still live.
 
XD dude, you tax churches=less services it can provide

=community recieves less= not good things happen

secondly if you worked in a church, and all then why are you of all people supporting taxing churches?
 
its like a store, and techincally the services that a church provides is a public good because it is open for all.
 
I believe everyone and every thing should pay something to their great country they live in. I can't speak for all churches but the one we collaborate with for food banks. the amount they pay in taxes would be so small compared to the money they have saved that it would not have effect the services they provide. worst case their renovation would take 2 years instead of 1.
 
and a store pays taxes on everything.

let me put it this way...if a business catches fire, the fire department comes and puts it out. Reasonable, because the business pays taxes to the town/city/state, which then reinvests the money into running that fire department.

If a church catches fire, the fire department comes and puts it out. The church pays no taxes, and therefore everyone else who has paid taxes, regardless of their religion/beliefs and whether or not the church has ever helped them, has now covered the cost of saving the church, whether they want to or not.
 
oh my.

genuine question. How old are you? I'm not going to lambast you for it or try to use it to reinforce an argument, I'm just curious because if you have ever paid taxes, you would most certainly not claim that paying bills is a completely different thing than taxes.
 
and a church pays for it for giving their community what they want, certain services, community parties, religious services if they choose to do that, and tons of other things. the thing that you fail to see is that a church is not owned by anyone, unless you try to say the pastor own the church which may be true for some denominations, but whatever, its run by a bunch of people with no real owner.
 
im not saying it is, im saying that bills are like water cable and other services that you can choose to take, (sounds a bit stupid but you can choose to not take electricity and not be forced out of your house) im talking about taxes as like you can be evicted from your home kind of taxes, and yes i recently turned 18.
 
way to read the rest of that post "I can't speak for all churches but the one we collaborate with for food banks. the amount they pay in taxes would be so small compared to the money they have saved that it would not have effect the services they provide. worst case their renovation would take 2 years instead of 1."

any so called "Good" your church dose giving toys to kids on Christmas, or food to poor people. are all donated by the people who go there or by stores like shopright. the church im sure pays a little, but like i said up there when you have 4 churches working together the cost is so low they would still be able to do everything they were before. IT WOULD NOT EFFECT THE SERVICES THEY PROVIDE TO THE COMMUNITY.
 
so if i donate a few cans of beans a month, and have a pizza party where I give everyone some hood ice cream (which was inexplicably present at every church gathering I ever went to) in my apartment, can I claim that i pay my taxes through good deeds, and therefore can keep my money?
 
-_- churches would provide less and they cannot progress as much, why would you want to slow down help when you can speed it up and improve things by just letting them do their thing?
 
once again, donations and charity would remain untouched as it's an exemption. You don't pay for doing good. You pay for existing and using the government in any way.

So they would not stop or even slow down.
 
and also i no longer go to church i still talk to and appreciate the friendships I've made growing up there, and do not disagree with the main teachings of Jesus ie being nice to others, but i no longer believe in god.
 
I believe I've said that 3 times in 3 different posts It would not effect the church on the services they provide.
 
sure, I'll invite a few bums from downtown to party it up.

And why does the number of people I'm feeding matter? Are you now putting a value on my good deeds? Because I can play that game too. Sorry churches, but people are still going hungry and you aren't giving enough. Tax time.
 
I've said it twice and yet he still doesn't get it.

Yes, they'd need money to pay taxes. But that money would not deduct from their donations or charity.
 
or how about this the pastors takes 1g less from his salary. the church gets rid of the flowers they buy every year in the spring boom taxes.
 
Some of my best friends are missionaries. Two are nurses and one is a teacher. One nurse is in South Sudan and another in Kenya. They both said one of the most difficult parts of the work is turning hundreds of people away a day, not because they won't convert, but because there aren't enough people or supplies to help. I've heard the same thing from another friend who was a missionary in Uganda for 50+ years. My other friend is a teacher in Nepal and same deal. She teaches anyone and everyone in her class regardless I'd religious affiliation. If/when opportunities come up to share their faith, they take advantage of it, but their help and services aren't dictated by whether or not someone converts.
 
Why shouldn't they do everything they can to keep the government from imposing somthing totally against their beliefs on the church. In reality they are protecting the seperation of church and state which is somthing your non believing ass should be thankful for since you wouldn't want the church imposing on your life either
 
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