Sex, Attraction, and Awkwardness

Disregard the attraction part but how about not being socialy awkward in the first place and feeling confident enough talking to people in general.
 
13134070:last_tango said:
Disregard the attraction part but how about not being socialy awkward in the first place and feeling confident enough talking to people in general.
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oh....ok.....thanks.
 
13133836:Lord_Byron said:
Youre approach to every guy in a setting is pretty weak. You dont owe an explanation as to why you wouldn't sleep with a guy, but you shouldn't assume, but you also are assuming without any knowledge every dude wants to bang you. And, speaking for myself and my friends, just because we see or begin talking to an attractive girl it doesn't mean we're trying to get in their pants. If there's a hot girl you just arent vibing with, there's nothing wrong with backing down. Even with the thought of a hookup or dating might cross my mind, im perfectly content getting to know someone on a completely platonic level if they aren't down to make sexy time.That goes for everyone, male or female, hot or not. I try to treat everyone with an equal amount of respect. If they don't want to talk or I decide I don't, thats fine too. I just do it without discrimination to gender.

While you don't owe anyone a reason for why you are giving them the cold shoulder, don't expect anyone to see you as anything but a judgmental person.

Of course a bar is different, but who the fuck goes to a straight bar just to turn down guys? If you don't want to get hit on by creeps all night, dont go to a dance club. Go to a concert, go to a lez bar, have a bonfire with the people you actually want to be around. What the fuck do you think is going to happen, why do you think almost everyone is there?

You don't have to say yes, you don't owe anyone shit, but a shitty attitude never got anyone anywhere.
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I guess we hang out in different social circles, in all of the friend groups I have had people go to bars regularly regardless of whether they're in a relationship or single, looking to hook up or not. If there's a reason to celebrate, like somebody's birthday, we're probably going to a bar. If there is a band in town I like or one of my friend has a show they are almost certainly performing at a bar. If we get off work and aren't ready to head home yet we go to a bar. So I'm not there to turn down guys, I'm there because it's my roommate's birthday and I want to get drunk, listen to music, shoot some pool and dance with my friends. I would be seriously isolating myself if I refused to go out. Maybe it's something to do with the drinking age here being 18 instead of 21?

I did specifically say in my second post that I know my issues are with a subset of guys, and that it sucks because it means that I don't always give guys (like you probably) the full chance they deserve. But it is a situation specific anxiety with a situation specific response - approach me in a coffee shop or at the beach or on a hike and I'll be stoked. It's really just bars where I have to fight through alarm bells in the back of my head.

If you look at what I said again, you'll notice my issue is that these arguments and bitch/whore responses came from cases where I DID give guys a clear honest reason why I wasn't interested - but they didn't respect it, forcing me to lie instead. I didn't go 'ew gross I'm not interested' and turn away from these guys as soon as they walked towards me. They're guys I had a conversation with, maybe danced with, and returned the favour if they bought a round of drinks. I only turned them down when they tried to move on to something I wasn't into. Many times I even made it clear that I'd like to continue hanging out. In one situation I even offered to wingman for the guy so we could find him a chick who was down. It doesn't matter, the instant they sense rejection they'll go from friendly to angry and bitter. And although it mostly happens at bars I've had it happen at parties and even hanging out in a small group. Look at CoreyTrevor's post - he seems to consider girls who reject him to be stuck up bitches with no acknowledgement that someone might have a valid reason to turn him down.

And that's why my problem (or shitty attitude) developed. I would never assume that every guy wants to bang me but you have to play the odds. If we're at a bar I know there is a good number that are looking to hookup. And I know that it is those guys that are most likely to approach me. And of those guys there are some that will react poorly to rejection. So as I meet more guys from that subset and have more negative experiences with them I start to get more anxious and careful, which results in my rejecting guys sooner, which means that yes more good guys slip through. It sure as hell isn't something I'm proud of (is anyone proud of social anxiety? or being awkward of purpose?), but it's a fear response, and eventually it's easier to focus on meeting guys in environments where I'm more comfortable (and probably have more in common with them anyways) and save bars for having fun with my friends.

Think of it this way: If you repeatedly got a speeding ticket at a certain intersection wouldn't you start driving more cautiously there, and save high speeds for the areas you didn't get ticketed? Especially if slowing down in that one intersection didn't actually make you late? - Even though you know that most of the time there's no speed trap in the intersection, it happens often enough that it benefits you more to modify your behaviour than to rack up more fines and points off your license.
 
13134163:paige. said:
I guess we hang out in different social circles, in all of the friend groups I have had people go to bars regularly regardless of whether they're in a relationship or single, looking to hook up or not. If there's a reason to celebrate, like somebody's birthday, we're probably going to a bar. If there is a band in town I like or one of my friend has a show they are almost certainly performing at a bar. If we get off work and aren't ready to head home yet we go to a bar. So I'm not there to turn down guys, I'm there because it's my roommate's birthday and I want to get drunk, listen to music, shoot some pool and dance with my friends. I would be seriously isolating myself if I refused to go out. Maybe it's something to do with the drinking age here being 18 instead of 21?

I did specifically say in my second post that I know my issues are with a subset of guys, and that it sucks because it means that I don't always give guys (like you probably) the full chance they deserve. But it is a situation specific anxiety with a situation specific response - approach me in a coffee shop or at the beach or on a hike and I'll be stoked. It's really just bars where I have to fight through alarm bells in the back of my head.

If you look at what I said again, you'll notice my issue is that these arguments and bitch/whore responses came from cases where I DID give guys a clear honest reason why I wasn't interested - but they didn't respect it, forcing me to lie instead. I didn't go 'ew gross I'm not interested' and turn away from these guys as soon as they walked towards me. They're guys I had a conversation with, maybe danced with, and returned the favour if they bought a round of drinks. I only turned them down when they tried to move on to something I wasn't into. Many times I even made it clear that I'd like to continue hanging out. In one situation I even offered to wingman for the guy so we could find him a chick who was down. It doesn't matter, the instant they sense rejection they'll go from friendly to angry and bitter. And although it mostly happens at bars I've had it happen at parties and even hanging out in a small group. Look at CoreyTrevor's post - he seems to consider girls who reject him to be stuck up bitches with no acknowledgement that someone might have a valid reason to turn him down.

And that's why my problem (or shitty attitude) developed. I would never assume that every guy wants to bang me but you have to play the odds. If we're at a bar I know there is a good number that are looking to hookup. And I know that it is those guys that are most likely to approach me. And of those guys there are some that will react poorly to rejection. So as I meet more guys from that subset and have more negative experiences with them I start to get more anxious and careful, which results in my rejecting guys sooner, which means that yes more good guys slip through. It sure as hell isn't something I'm proud of (is anyone proud of social anxiety? or being awkward of purpose?), but it's a fear response, and eventually it's easier to focus on meeting guys in environments where I'm more comfortable (and probably have more in common with them anyways) and save bars for having fun with my friends.

Think of it this way: If you repeatedly got a speeding ticket at a certain intersection wouldn't you start driving more cautiously there, and save high speeds for the areas you didn't get ticketed? Especially if slowing down in that one intersection didn't actually make you late? - Even though you know that most of the time there's no speed trap in the intersection, it happens often enough that it benefits you more to modify your behaviour than to rack up more fines and points off your license.
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Yeah, I guess as a guy there are some issues like that I can't fully understand unless its laid out like that. Maybe bars are a bit different here, or maybe i don't notice the creepers because I never interact with them. One of the most common things I DO see around my friends is when they go out with the intention of getting laid they usually dont, and they usually end up hooking up with someone when they are just at a bar/party for a good time. The 18 vs 21 thing might be a factor too.

Its just shitty that the douches ruin it for most guys. Those guys who you danced with and talked to yet still didn't take no for an answer are the worst, and none of us like them. They also fall into the "stupid" category, they don't realize their chances of hooking up with someone like you would probably be higher if they actually took the time to get to know you. Not saying you should hook up with them then, but getting to know someone 1 on 1 over time tends to generate better chemistry than pick up lines at a bar.

Well maybe some differences are just irreconcilable, I get that if only 15% of the guys you talk to on a given night are trying to get in bed with you, you're naturally going to assume every guy wants to bang you until proven otherwise. I just wish that culture and mentality would change for both males and females.

And spelled out like that, your attitude still sounds shitty, albeit realistic. Hard to fault someone for that.
 
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