Semi-Professional Camcorder - Under $2000

S

skimanproduction

New member
I beginning my search for a new camcorder and was hoping to get some advice. I'm looking to upgrade to a semi-professional camcorder. I'm hoping to find something for under $2000. I currently shoot with a Panasonic HDC-TM15. It has an above average picture but nothing special at all.

I was looking at the Sony HDR-FX7 Handycam (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&XID=O:hdrfx7:dg_ggldf&productId=11034787#specifications) but not really sure if that is even the right place to start my search.

I'm hoping I can get some advice for what to look for in a camcorder and a few suggestions of different ones.

I have a few questions:

What exactly should I be looking for spec wise?

What frame rate is best for skiing (ie slowmo shots, etc)? 24fps? 30? 60? What is each frame rate best for?

Is a camcorder even the way to go or should I consider a DLSR?

I'm looking to have the camera as portable as possible while still have great quality.

Any help would be appreciated.
 
1. How much do you know about cameras? Do you always want to shoot in a manual mode?

2. 30 or 60 fps would be best for skiing. 60 is good for slowmo (slowing it to 50% bringing it to 30) 30 is what most live broadcasts and sports on tv are shot with, and 24 is for movie-like shots.

3. If you dont know much about filming and photog, definitely get a camcorder. HDSLRS have a steep learning curve.

Don't get the FX7. Stay away from tapes if possible, they are too much of a hassle. I bet you could find a used Panasonic HVX200 for right around 2 grand.
 
Sony's consumer cameras are crap. If you want a good camera to learn on, look into a DSLR. The learning curve is steep, which basically forces you to study the mechanics of video and be on top of your shit at all times. You have to manually pull focus, record sound separately, and hold it extremely still. It also allows you to learn the in and outs of lenses, which you won't get with a video camera.

Or if you just want nice quality video and have no real interest in furthering your skills, look into an HV40, a wide angle, and steadicam.
 
No.

HVX200p seems to be going for about 2000-2200 on DVXuser (some with p2 cards).

HMC150's are going for about 2600.

 
But with the price of SD storage, he could get much more for his money by going the HMC150 route. Plus it has a much sharper image than the HVX/HPX. Besides, I would personally pay slightly more money to have a camera without a useless tape deck in it. Also, the HMC150 has a much better button layout, based on the DVX series. The HVX's button layout is a disaster, which is one of the reasons why Panasonic quickly replaced HVXs with the HPX series.
 
Yeah I agree with the button layout, useless tapedeck, and cheap price of SD cards. Deffinately. I was just saying that the HVX (original) is cheaper now.

You say that the HMC is sharper than the HVX200a/HPX? You may be correct but I don't understand how or why. The HMC is identical to the HPX minus a more compressed codec (AVCHD @24mbps vs. DVCproHD @ 100mbps). Is the HMC150 truely "sharper" than the HPX? I know that the HMC40 is sharper than the HMC150.
 
Barry Green did some chart tests on the HMC150 vs the HPX170/HVX200 and found that the HMC150 was significantly sharper. You can find the article on DVXuser.

The DVCproHD codec transfers more data, but data rate does not completely determine codec quality. The AVCHD codec is more efficient, meaning that 1mb of AVCHD>1mb of DVXproHD in terms of information. This is the same reason why the DSLRs are so incredibly sharp. Aside from the fact that they down-sample imagery from a 35mm-sized sensor (aliasing), the actual output codec retains detail/sharpness much more efficiently. p2 is less troublesome, and destroys h.264 in terms of flexability, so there is a tradeoff there.
 
Thanks for clearing that up Landis. I'll look for those charts on DVXuser. HMC here in about a month for me! Need to break away from the DVX finally.

Sorry to get a little off topic OP. Back on topic.
 
Why get an outdated SD camera? ATLEAST get a DVX if you're going to stick with miniDV. Even still, the DVX is becoming outdated.

That statement was very blind.
 
I should add that while AVCHD is cheaper and sharper, p2 dominates in every other (and more important) category, specifically COLOR.
 
Actually I do know what I am talking about, you are an ignorant asshole. Everything you say is just bashing everyone, go fuck yourself.
 
if you know what you're talking about, then why do you give the advice that you do? I've seen you give out advice in other similar threads recommending a HV30, a DVC30 and something along the caliber of a HMC150/HVX200 to a guy getting into video....
 
I'm super close to buying an HMC150 but part of me is scared I'll regret not going for the HPX170. Panasonic is torturing me by making two similar cameras (three if you count the HVX200a).

I think whichever camera I end up with will be awesome, but it is just so hard to decide.
 
In my opinion the HVX200 is not worth the money. Way too many flaws, like the button layout, DV deck, lack of histogram, plus all the other little things...

HMC150 is good if you don't want a step up from a DVX. It is basically an HD DVX, yet much sharper than the hpx170. Honestly, I would take an HMC150 over an HVX200 any day.

the hpx170 still wins the race, hands down. p2 workflow, 4:2:2 color, built in histogram, better focus assist, no tape deck, the list goes on. I have used these in every scenario and they are great cameras with VERY important features (4:2:2 color space and histograms).

HPX170>HMC150>HVX200

You can get amazing latency out of all three cameras, but without a histogram (and especially without 4:2:2 color), you have to be VERY good at guessing the way your camera reacts, and even then you'll be off by some. I remember with my GL2, I never even used the LCD/VF other than to white balance, because it was so inaccurate that every time I filmed I had to guess the exposure. It was a pain, but it taught me the ins/outs of the camera, which was beneficial in the long run.

I would suggest you wait until December when Panasonic releases the AF100 and new HPX350 (i think its called?). Once that hits the market, the game will change in a few ways. Panasonic may rate their current models at difference price points, and the competition will try and keep up. Meaning the DSLRs are going to improve in the near near future.
 
Thanks for the reply.

I don't have the funds for an HPX (with enough p2 for my needs) as of right now so I'm deffinately leaning towards the HMC. I don't NEED 4:2:2 color space because I don't do green screen work and I don't color grade heavily.

I'm pretty sure the HMC has vectorscope/waveform monitor though? It's not the same at the HPX I guess. I really would like to try both cameras out before buying but I don't think that's possible because I don't live near a big camera store like B&H.

Milos, I'll claim all I want =].
 
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