Seattle Announces $15 Minimum Wage Highest In The U.S.

[TheBigApple]

We need to stop consuming. The system is broken. "Growth" is not good. We can't continually keep our economies growing perpetually. Resources will run out.

Population control would be a good start.

 

[boppin]

We need to stop consuming. The system is broken. "Growth" is not good. We can't continually keep our economies growing perpetually. Resources will run out.

Population control would be a good start.

Whenever someone starts to talk about population control i start to laugh.

 

[deleted5]

shockingly, most large companies don't give a fuck about you. they maybe can afford it, but they don't want to pay you it

This is actually a really good point.

 

[cool_name]

Hopefully not... there is going to be a huge decrease in jobs so the companies can save money. Fewer jobs equals more competition. But, this will cause people to put more effort into their job which is about the only positive effect a raise like this will inflict.

The negative effect is this would allow employors to discriminate more when hiring

 

[b-kul]

We need to stop consuming. The system is broken. "Growth" is not good. We can't continually keep our economies growing perpetually. Resources will run out.

Population control would be a good start.

we just need a good 'ol fashioned plague.

 

[cool_name]

Companies still need the same amount of people to perform the jobs that need to be done. If they (businesses) could simply cut jobs they're workforce would be considered inefficient. In the case of large corporations the top executives salaries will get cut and go toward the lowest paid employees. Unless the rest of the US follows Seattle's lead companies will simply move out.

if a works produces 12 dollars of value it is efficient to hire him if it costs them less than 12 to do so, but if the company has to start paying him 15 it is no longer efficient to keep him on board

 

[philipc]

if a works produces 12 dollars of value it is efficient to hire him if it costs them less than 12 to do so, but if the company has to start paying him 15 it is no longer efficient to keep him on board

So you find an inefficiency in your value chain, or charge more for a product.

 

[Scaredwhiteboy]

According to the article, this is going to pump $500 million more money into Washington's economy. Shit, that sounds good. We should raise the minimum wage even more. $100/hour minimum wage anybody?

 

[shitpoop]

If walmart raised all there prices (nationwide), by ONE CENT, then it would save taxpayers 300 million in medicare

 

[deleted5]

According to the article, this is going to pump $500 million more money into Washington's economy. Shit, that sounds good. We should raise the minimum wage even more. $100/hour minimum wage anybody?

fallacy

 

[jmasterp]

honestly i just want to know why they aren't making it higher?

if raising it to $15 pumps 500 million into the economy imagine how much money will be pumped into the economy if they raised even more! At 20 a hour it will pump nearly a billion dollars into the Seattle economy, at 30 it would add 2 billion, if they screwed all this politically stuff and did what was really good for the people surely they should just raise it to 100 an hour because just counting the people making under 15 an hour right now that would add over 9 billion dollars to Seattle economy all that new cash would completely remove the lower class in Seattle for sure and nobody would have to work any harder!!!!

Wow! You have no fucking idea what you're talking about. I'm guessing you've never taken an Econ class or you're just incredibly stupid.

 

[Phross]

Wow! You have no fucking idea what you're talking about. I'm guessing you've never taken an Econ class or you're just incredibly stupid.

Protip: He's bein' sarcastic, ya dingus.

 

[erikK]

Wow! You have no fucking idea what you're talking about. I'm guessing you've never taken an Econ class or you're just incredibly stupid.

It doesn't take an econ class to know he's kidding you fucking imbecile

 

[cool_name]

So you find an inefficiency in your value chain, or charge more for a product.

i may be less than sober right now, but i do not understand what you are trying to argue or even say here, it doesn't seem to logically follow from previous posts in which you state if companies can just fire people they are inefficient, to which i reply stating the inefficiency has more to do with mpl than simply whether or not an employee could be fired and the company survive. You then concluded that in the case of a heightened minimum wage law companies will either find an inefficiency or raise the cost of the product, which may be true but i dont understand what side you are supporting with this information

 

[cool_name]

According to the article, this is going to pump $500 million more money into Washington's economy. Shit, that sounds good. We should raise the minimum wage even more. $100/hour minimum wage anybody?

hahaha that hilarious and totally original

 

[cool_name]

According to the article, this is going to pump $500 million more money into Washington's economy. Shit, that sounds good. We should raise the minimum wage even more. $100/hour minimum wage anybody?

hahaha that hilarious and totally original

 

[cool_name]

Wow! You have no fucking idea what you're talking about. I'm guessing you've never taken an Econ class or you're just incredibly stupid.

dude i dont know why you are calling me an idiot, it is basic math

 

[PacificRimJob]

Just wait till San Francisco kicks a door down with 20$...

 

[Mr.Panda]

Just wait till San Francisco kicks a door down with 20$...

Kicks down the door to become the biggest city to ever declare bankruptcy?

 

[Skiingsnow]

How do people live on so little money? I was making $17 an hour when I was 17 in a supermarket in Australia...

 

[philipc]

i may be less than sober right now, but i do not understand what you are trying to argue or even say here, it doesn't seem to logically follow from previous posts in which you state if companies can just fire people they are inefficient, to which i reply stating the inefficiency has more to do with mpl than simply whether or not an employee could be fired and the company survive. You then concluded that in the case of a heightened minimum wage law companies will either find an inefficiency or raise the cost of the product, which may be true but i dont understand what side you are supporting with this information

I'm saying I don't think the wage increase will result in many firings. I also don't support either side, it will be interesting to see how the wage increase effects Seattle's and the Nations economy.

 

[PacificRimJob]

Kicks down the door to become the biggest city to ever declare bankruptcy?

Nah, first city to institute it's own currency though..

...think of the British pound vs the Euro. Only, San Francisco names its currency the Norton.

 

[Mr.Huck]

Nah, first city to institute it's own currency though..

...think of the British pound vs the Euro. Only, San Francisco names its currency the Norton.

Yep, only I think the currency will be called Nancys or Pelosis. And you will get to exchange Nancys for Dollars to travel or purchase goods outside of San Fran. The exchange rate will be something like 4 Nancys to 1 Dollar, because the Nancy currency is valued based on the strength of the San Fran economy, which will be really strong because everyone loves trading fluctuating currency, so they can do business in a neighboring area. You will have the pleasure of exchanging currency to take the fairy from Sausalito to go have dinner in San Fran? There is the possibility that, if something bad happens while you are spending the weekend in San Fran, the exchange rate could fluctuate significantly making your Nancys worth less when you return home and convert them back to dollars. So many will get to enjoy the experience of buying currency swaps prior to a trip to the city, which allow you to exchange Nancys for dollars at a predetermined rate for a certain period of time and acts as a hedge against currency fluctuation. This just sounds like so much fun, I can't wait to go to San Fransisco when this happens.

 

[pimp.hands]

this thread has aids.

 

[Mr.Sloth]

LIVING WAGE GAHHHH

inb4 the cost of living in Seattle doubles

 

[cobra_commander]

I thought with all the techies no one in SF made less than $36 an hour anyway. They priced all the hipster artists, baristas, hippies, and gay folk out, causing them all to move to Seattle.

The only reason I'm posting in this thread is to say that the Mayor's only qualification for the job was not being the previous mayor, who's only qualification for the job was not being the previous mayor; both of them, and the city council cunt are fucking out of touch turds who can't see reality based on how far up eachother's asses their heads are. It's so fucked up they argue about what flavor the shit should taste like.

Oh, and for you all to read my signature.

 

[PacificRimJob]

Yep, only I think the currency will be called Nancys or Pelosis. And you will get to exchange Nancys for Dollars to travel or purchase goods outside of San Fran. The exchange rate will be something like 4 Nancys to 1 Dollar, because the Nancy currency is valued based on the strength of the San Fran economy, which will be really strong because everyone loves trading fluctuating currency, so they can do business in a neighboring area. You will have the pleasure of exchanging currency to take the fairy from Sausalito to go have dinner in San Fran? There is the possibility that, if something bad happens while you are spending the weekend in San Fran, the exchange rate could fluctuate significantly making your Nancys worth less when you return home and convert them back to dollars. So many will get to enjoy the experience of buying currency swaps prior to a trip to the city, which allow you to exchange Nancys for dollars at a predetermined rate for a certain period of time and acts as a hedge against currency fluctuation. This just sounds like so much fun, I can't wait to go to San Fransisco when this happens.

They're not going to call it the Nancy or the Pelosi - Hell my boss is Gavin Newsom, he's way closer tied to SF than Pelosi is now.

The currency will be the "Norton" after Norton I - Emperor of the USA and protector of Mexico (Wikipedia that shit if you don't know anything)

(or just buy some of these, and read the back of the package)

The surrounding bay area will likely adopt the Norton as a secondary currency (similar to the way that other nations take on the Dollar). So yeah, you can buy a Top Dog in Berkeley for either 1 norton, or 4 dollars. Pretty simple.

 

[PacificRimJob]

I thought with all the techies no one in SF made less than $36 an hour anyway. They priced all the hipster artists, baristas, hippies, and gay folk out, causing them all to move to Seattle.

The only reason I'm posting in this thread is to say that the Mayor's only qualification for the job was not being the previous mayor, who's only qualification for the job was not being the previous mayor; both of them, and the city council cunt are fucking out of touch turds who can't see reality based on how far up eachother's asses their heads are. It's so fucked up they argue about what flavor the shit should taste like.

Oh, and for you all to read my signature.

Have you been to the Tenderloin? Hunter's Point? Those folks definitely don't make 36 an hour.

...and said SF hipsters don't move to Seattle... that's where people who get too rich for Portland move. SF hipsters are all moving to Oakland and the East Bay, or even Midtown Sacramento.

 

[TheBigApple]

How do people live on so little money? I was making $17 an hour when I was 17 in a supermarket in Australia...

Cost of living in Australia is like twice as high... so it works out about the same

 

[corona]

Cost of living in Australia is like twice as high... so it works out about the same

doesn't actually even out.

the one that matters here is the "average monthly disposable salary" at the bottom.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...jsp?country1=Australia&country2=United+States

 

[infedel_one]

honestly i just want to know why they aren't making it higher?

if raising it to $15 pumps 500 million into the economy imagine how much money will be pumped into the economy if they raised even more! At 20 a hour it will pump nearly a billion dollars into the Seattle economy, at 30 it would add 2 billion, if they screwed all this politically stuff and did what was really good for the people surely they should just raise it to 100 an hour because just counting the people making under 15 an hour right now that would add over 9 billion dollars to Seattle economy all that new cash would completely remove the lower class in Seattle for sure and nobody would have to work any harder!!!!

that is the stupidest rational I have every heard.

 

[cobra_commander]

that is the stupidest rational I have every heard.

That's the point.

 

[skier_boy26]

The only reason I'm posting in this thread is to say that the Mayor's only qualification for the job was not being the previous mayor, who's only qualification for the job was not being the previous mayor; both of them, and the city council cunt are fucking out of touch turds who can't see reality based on how far up eachother's asses their heads are. It's so fucked up they argue about what flavor the shit should taste like.

You forgot: the other side of this coin was a council member who was only elected because she ran against the guy who opposed the new nba/nhl arena, and her other qualifications are that she is an open socialist and that she was an Occupy activist. Great!

Yes, yes. Seattle's mayor has finally proposed a minimum wage increase after months of hilariously irritating rhetoric from the "Income Inequality Committee" and the other labor unions that backed it. The proposal is down right funny, considering it went from "$15 NOW BECAUSE THE RENT CAN'T WAIT" and "THE CEO'S ARE TOO RICH, GIVE ME A RAISE" and "IF YOU CAN'T PAY $15 PER HOUR, YOU SHOULDN'T BE IN BUSINESS" to... a near decade phase in that will only slightly exacerbate the growing cost of living in Seattle. That is certainly better, in my opinion, than the near certain super exacerbated growth in cost of living.

The best part of the whole process has been the pedestal that San Francisco has been placed on (which is a chronic Seattle problem): well if San Francisco had no problems when they increased their minimum wage a tiny bit, then obviously Seattle can raise it over 60% with only rainbows and benefits and cash money for all. Nevermind that SF not only has Jim Harbaugh (even if they play 40 miles away), but it is one of the most expensive cities to live in the US. And shitholes with an apt reputation (aka Oakland) have some of the sharpest increases in housing costs in the nation as all the hipsters move across the bay.

But this will help pay the rent, not.

 

[feihlination]

this will be an interesting experiment, seattle is an expensive city to live in and it would be near impossible to live on 9$ an hour. I live in a small apartment and pay 800$ a month and rates keep getting higher. I do like to see the automatic wage hike to keep up with inflation. But we'll see if the people this aims to help (minimum wagers) will actually be helped with a wage hike or a loss of jobs. I suspect the latter

thanks.

all the other pseudo free market experts should fuck off. just because youre parents have upper elechon jobs, its not fair to have someone work a shitty ass job for 7-9 fucking dollars (it might be even less depending on some loophole).

if you cant afford to pay fair salaries, youre a shit business that shouldnt be supported anyways.

 

[.MASSHOLE.]

thanks.

all the other pseudo free market experts should fuck off. just because youre parents have upper elechon jobs, its not fair to have someone work a shitty ass job for 7-9 fucking dollars (it might be even less depending on some loophole).

if you cant afford to pay fair salaries, youre a shit business that shouldnt be supported anyways.

I am all for a higher minimum wage, but an increase that big could cause a lot more to change than planned.

By your rational, then small businesses have no reason to be supported? Most of them struggle to maintain a profit margin that can support their personal lives and business.

Smart small "business" men/women will realize they can now have to change their prices as well as they will have to pay higher wages as well yet still maintain a living for themselves. The big businesses can handle this, the small mom and pop shops probably can't. Their options are limited to either decreasing employment numbers, increasing prices, or just closing up shop and quitting.

If you ask me, I think a lot of big companies will move out of the Seattle area into more "economically" (profitable) areas to avoid this, forcing the brunt of this wage hike upon the smaller businesses.

It may be aimed at helping people, but what about the people it hurts?

 

[Peachbutt]

By your rational, then small businesses have no reason to be supported? Most of them struggle to maintain a profit margin that can support their personal lives and business.

Smart small "business" men/women will realize they can now have to change their prices as well as they will have to pay higher wages as well yet still maintain a living for themselves. The big businesses can handle this, the small mom and pop shops probably can't. Their options are limited to either decreasing employment numbers, increasing prices, or just closing up shop and quitting.

This. I don't know much about economics at all but a $15 minimum wage seems like the fastest way to squash any small business. My local skateshop almost went out of business a few months ago, it's not like the owner's a rich guy I'm pretty sure he's just barely scraping by like all the other employees. If the minimum wage doubled then there's no way a shop like that could stay in business. Even with that graduated raise someone was talking about at the beginning of the thread, I imagine that would just slowly push the shop to bankruptcy.

 

[AT-AT]

The amount of kids in here talking bad about capitalism makes me want to vomit. "businesses are bad, poor people are good."

Do you/your family have a car? a tv? eat today? drink water? They were all supplied to you by a business of some sort. Learn where your shit comes from before you start talking bad about it.

 

[cool_name]

thanks.

all the other pseudo free market experts should fuck off. just because youre parents have upper elechon jobs, its not fair to have someone work a shitty ass job for 7-9 fucking dollars (it might be even less depending on some loophole).

if you cant afford to pay fair salaries, youre a shit business that shouldnt be supported anyways.

nobody has to work for 7 or 9 dollars, in fact nobody has to work period.

I am really curious though what your rational for declaring a wage, that two parties mutually agreed to as unfair?

 

[feihlination]

I am all for a higher minimum wage, but an increase that big could cause a lot more to change than planned.

By your rational, then small businesses have no reason to be supported? Most of them struggle to maintain a profit margin that can support their personal lives and business.

Smart small "business" men/women will realize they can now have to change their prices as well as they will have to pay higher wages as well yet still maintain a living for themselves. The big businesses can handle this, the small mom and pop shops probably can't. Their options are limited to either decreasing employment numbers, increasing prices, or just closing up shop and quitting.

If you ask me, I think a lot of big companies will move out of the Seattle area into more "economically" (profitable) areas to avoid this, forcing the brunt of this wage hike upon the smaller businesses.

It may be aimed at helping people, but what about the people it hurts?

i think we only "need" companies that are healthy enough to provide FAIR salaries to their employees. that may be a few small ones, and most certainly also a few bigger ones. i can really only speak for germany/austria, and i know there are certain loopholes where you can label a worker in a specific way to undermine minimum wage and they effectively get like 3-5 euros per hour. if anyone on this site has no problem working for so little, he should raise his hand.

i know what you mean, but my point is that we need to rethink economy on a macro scale. trying such a high minimum scale might be one way and i am sure the results wont be as bad as most people think. all these models to predict inflation, unemployment and so on have like 2-4 factors at best.

 

[.MASSHOLE.]

Well, problem with that then is twofold. First, you stifle innovation as individuals may deem it too risky to take on endeavors, and consequently, the second issue of unemployment as the job market shrinks.

I personally think that large corporations, IE Walmart, Papa Johns, GMC, etc. should be required to a pay higher wage than smaller companies like your local mom and pop shops. The issues with this is increasing competition for these positions at larger companies which takes away employees from the smaller ones, the increased rates from these larger companies, and then obviously the biggest one, getting it passed by our corporate congress (anyone else watch Continuum?).

I agree that we do need to rethink the economy on a macro scale, but obviously my personal opinions on certain methods are different than yours.

 

[cool_name]

i think we only "need" companies that are healthy enough to provide FAIR salaries to their employees. that may be a few small ones, and most certainly also a few bigger ones. i can really only speak for germany/austria, and i know there are certain loopholes where you can label a worker in a specific way to undermine minimum wage and they effectively get like 3-5 euros per hour. if anyone on this site has no problem working for so little, he should raise his hand.

i know what you mean, but my point is that we need to rethink economy on a macro scale. trying such a high minimum scale might be one way and i am sure the results wont be as bad as most people think. all these models to predict inflation, unemployment and so on have like 2-4 factors at best.

again what is your definition of a fair salary, because personally i think any salary two people agree to is fair. If the worker was getting severely underpaid they are free to go get that better paying job

Also you some who assume that just because a model has few factors it cant be accurate, which is a complete fallacy

 

[deleted5]

I am all for a higher minimum wage, but an increase that big could cause a lot more to change than planned.

By your rational, then small businesses have no reason to be supported? Most of them struggle to maintain a profit margin that can support their personal lives and business.

Smart small "business" men/women will realize they can now have to change their prices as well as they will have to pay higher wages as well yet still maintain a living for themselves. The big businesses can handle this, the small mom and pop shops probably can't. Their options are limited to either decreasing employment numbers, increasing prices, or just closing up shop and quitting.

If you ask me, I think a lot of big companies will move out of the Seattle area into more "economically" (profitable) areas to avoid this, forcing the brunt of this wage hike upon the smaller businesses.

It may be aimed at helping people, but what about the people it hurts?

I agree with you, I think the minimum wage should be raised. But $15 does seem like a lot, it will be interesting to see how this will play out.

 

[feihlination]

again what is your definition of a fair salary, because personally i think any salary two people agree to is fair. If the worker was getting severely underpaid they are free to go get that better paying job

Also you some who assume that just because a model has few factors it cant be accurate, which is a complete fallacy

well a lot of people do not have any leverage. its basically get a shitty job or welfare. so, in that regard, it cannot be fair.

and we dont have to argue about semantics that anything under 9$ for a full-time job is fair, whether or not both sides "agreed" on it.

almost by definition, a model abstracts and simplifies reality and therefore cannot predict everything perfectly. that IS true. its also true that they make complicated matters mathematically manageable, but that is also part of the problem. i am 100% sure that this minimum loan wont have such a drastic effect as expected by all those economists calculating the intersection of two linear curves.

 

[cool_name]

well a lot of people do not have any leverage. its basically get a shitty job or welfare. so, in that regard, it cannot be fair.

and we dont have to argue about semantics that anything under 9$ for a full-time job is fair, whether or not both sides "agreed" on it.

almost by definition, a model abstracts and simplifies reality and therefore cannot predict everything perfectly. that IS true. its also true that they make complicated matters mathematically manageable, but that is also part of the problem. i am 100% sure that this minimum loan wont have such a drastic effect as expected by all those economists calculating the intersection of two linear curves.

If by have no leverage you mean people are not able to successfully demand to get paid more than they are worth then yes they have no leverage.

Also the entire root of the minimum wage law is based on the belief that people are being paid unfairly, so i really don't see how this isn't a relevant argument or are you just trying to brush it aside because you know you have no chance of successfully arguing that two people making an agreement is somehow unfair

yes a model simplifies a situation and therefore can not predict everything perfectly, but that doesnt make them widely inaccurate and unreliable.

Weather is predicted by a model, but models are never able to predict everything perfectly Therefore because the weather report said it is going to rain tomorrow, i can be 100% certain that it will be sunny tomorrow

I dont see how you can think that is a logically supported rational.

 

[deleted5]

If by have no leverage you mean people are not able to successfully demand to get paid more than they are worth then yes they have no leverage.

Also the entire root of the minimum wage law is based on the belief that people are being paid unfairly, so i really don't see how this isn't a relevant argument or are you just trying to brush it aside because you know you have no chance of successfully arguing that two people making an agreement is somehow unfair

yes a model simplifies a situation and therefore can not predict everything perfectly, but that doesnt make them widely inaccurate and unreliable.

Weather is predicted by a model, but models are never able to predict everything perfectly Therefore because the weather report said it is going to rain tomorrow, i can be 100% certain that it will be sunny tomorrow

I dont see how you can think that is a logically supported rational.

Hmmmmm should I take 8$ an hour even though I asked for 15, or should I still keep looking for work and not make any money to buy food for my kids. If you make little to no money you can make investments in yourself to further you career.

 

[cool_name]

Hmmmmm should I take 8$ an hour even though I asked for 15, or should I still keep looking for work and not make any money to buy food for my kids. If you make little to no money you can make investments in yourself to further you career.

yes, which is exactly why minimum wage laws do more harm then good, they remove the best way less skilled workers can compete, which is by offering there services for less and by doing that it gives them the ability gain more experience and work there way up to a higher wage. Without that option, which minimum wage laws take away, companies will have no incentive to hire unskilled workers which will make it even harder for those people to get work.

 

[deleted5]

yes, which is exactly why minimum wage laws do more harm then good, they remove the best way less skilled workers can compete, which is by offering there services for less and by doing that it gives them the ability gain more experience and work there way up to a higher wage. Without that option, which minimum wage laws take away, companies will have no incentive to hire unskilled workers which will make it even harder for those people to get work.

What you just said made no sense to me, education is how you advance your life, and get a real high paying job. It's from some form of school, I fail to see how paying people 3.50$ an hour will help them.

 

[chicken]

Inb4 it takes a masters degree to get a job as a barista.

phds become baristas because there is no work for them

 

[chicken]

and $15 and hour is SOO much more money than they make in grad school. fuck universities.

 

[milk_man]

When are people going to realize that there will always be poor people? It doesn't really matter how much you raise minimum wage, there are always gonna be people who are stupid with money.

Like the people on welfare who have iphones. Just stupid. Nobody needs an iphone, much less someone who can't even get a job for one reason or another.