Ron Paul 08 (thread 2)

that's definitely true. but i think ron paul is intelligent enough to see that pure libertarianism would result in problems like that. even if he's not though, congress would probably prevent him from doing too much damage there - not because congress is wise by any means, just because they won't want to relinquish power to state legislatures.

 
very true, but for every illegal immigrant man they bring their wives and have kids as fast as possible so that their kids become citizens. i am fine with them working but they need to pay taxes like the rest of us.
 
yeah but they do have kids and spend what they can't afford anyway, in large numbers. this isn't your econ 101 book. and they for whatever reason can't/won't get educated. An extremely small percentage of people that recieve government assistance are "mooching". If his policies were implemented all your government funding would be through state taxes, who, having just been essentially cut off from the federal government, would proceed to raise taxes right away to pay for that unprecedented defecit they just inhereted. someone pays for those freeways.
 
riiiiiight and you know what its like to make 15gs a year. i'm gonna go out on a limb and say youre an overpriveleged white kid, like I am (you're also a douchebag because you can't respond to someone's attempt at trying to start intelligent political discourse without bringing in hate for no reason).

but anyways, its hard to "go out and get an education" when you are making very little money. you dont have the time or money, and whenever you get close, unexpected expenses pop up. in any case, the solution to poverty is not to let people sink or swim. they will most definitely sink. oh, and by the way if youre making 25k a year, a washer-dryer and television are all expenses outside your means, according to studies.

people who don't need the services taxes pay for are opposed to taxes. my mom has worked for several charities and had a job for a long time teaching underpriveleged hispanic kids how to read (head start program). I'd like to see douchebags like you march into a room full of big-eyed, cute little hispanic kids and tell them "this isnt 1962 russia assholes. no education for you."

I've done volunteer work with charity organizations several times. yes, some of people who we help are unappreciative and some are a little bit lazy. but its called compassion, you sociopath. its the mark of being a decent human being. you are not a decent human being. this may sound extreme, but if you truly believe what you say, you are either incredibly ignorant or seriously lacking any sort of empathy for your fellow man. i hope one day people like you will realize your extremely misguided views, once you get a little more real-world experience.

Oh and don't even try debating me. I've forgotten more about the american political system than you'll ever know.
 
Found this bumper sticker and thought of this thread.

37224592v37_240x240_Front.jpg
 
you sound a fucking lot more arrogant then me. both of your assumptions are wrong.

because im not a bleeding heart liberal socialist fuck like you i must be rich? wrong

1. a free market would not deny most poor people an education , it would make it cheaper because without government regulation it would be a buisness and there would be competition.

2.im not an organ donor and i dont care about most americans. 350 million people and we elected gwbush twice, what the fuck does that tell you? most americans are fat apathetic morons. please please tell me im wrong.

3. just because i have that opinion of americans it doesnt mean i dont care, if i didint care i would want to elect Ron Paul, i would vote for giuliani.

4.a welfare socialist state, is that really the answer? national healthcare? national bandaid. thats next. or we can reduce the size of government, create a free market and improve our image in the world and stop fucking around with other countries? am i missing something about your argument?
 
you have a good argument. The only thing is that you don't seem to care about other people. You should care about your fellow countrymen.

Other than that I totally agree but you need to stop attacking him personally...

"bleeding heart liberal socialist fuck"...come on man. show some respect and man up.
 
^The fact of his original argument remains the same, the fact is people are selfish, and they wont support projects that dont directly have a part in their everyday lives. Yes, it would be ideal for our government to work like that and for people to have an inclination against human nature, but sorry, this is the real world.
 
I DO SUPPORT THAT SHIT! just not the government doing it! i want it all privatized! it would streangthen our country immensley
 
All I have to say, is FUCK ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Go back to your own shitty country and fix that instead of infiltrating the USA. Just the fact that they do that shows me that they are lazy as fuck and do not want to do anything by themselves.

You are not going to change my mind about it so dont even try.

I dont have compassion for anyone who sits on their ass and expects everything handed to them. Just because a person is born, does not mean he/she is entitled to anything at all.
 
I meant that for the dude two posts above, delay, sorry. Believe me, your position is very clear. Privatization would help SOME sectors, but a fully privatized country would not work for a multitude of reasons. You need organization and control at some level with a nation this large.
 
i would say you're doing exactly what a "decent human being" should do then. i would also say that's not at all out of line with libertarian/conservative ideals.

the idea of doing away with the welfare state isn't to hang everyone less fortunate out to dry, but rather to let people do with their time and money what they want. the less fortunate should be helped by charity, not government intervention. simply put, people should help other people because they can and it's the right thing to do, not because the government forces them to.

of course, you'll say the problem is that people are greedy and won't voluntarily help each other. and unfortunately, you're probably right. i don't have a clear, easy answer to that problem. i don't think there is one.
 
also, i wouldn't call it empathetic or compassionate to grant amnesty to illegal immigrants. these people are not just stealing from us, they're stealing from those who have waited to go through the difficult process of immigrating legally. to reward them for breaking immigration laws is unjust and preposterous, not compassionate.

 
LOL privatization strengthening things is like my libertarian friend saying getting rid of the minimum wage will make companies pay people more because of competition.

explain to me exactly how privatizing social services, which would transform them into non-profits, would make them better?

I'm going to stoop to your level...youre a fucking moron. My mom has worked for two non-profit organizations (prison fellowship international and loudoun literacy council) and they pay jack shit to their overqualified staff. thats what privatization of a social service will do. case and point, private school teachers get terrible pay. not that teachers are incredibly well-paid, but private school teachers are supposed to be more qualified. you are not living in the real world, you are living in a fantasy world where your idea of "every man for himself" somehow would make everyone's lives better. privatizing social security, another example of your failed world outlook. I'm so glad that it failed because ask yourself this...can poor, uneducated people save and invest their money? NO. thats why theyre poor. the government has to take care of them.

like cotton said, privatizing social services means depending on the charity of the upper class. oh, and I never said you were rich, I said you were overpriveleged. unless you pay for your own college and most of your way through your young life, I'm betting you probably are, just like me.

to the guy ranting about illegal immigrants...they work harder in a week than your little bitch-ass ever did your whole life. I dont care if youre not gonna change your mind, I just wanted to call you a stupid fuck. and if you hate illegal immigrants so much, WHY DONT YOU FIX IT like you suggested immigrants do if something displeases them in their country? oh yeah, because youre a hypocrite, you expect some poor mexican to go back to mexico and fix the economy, but I'd bet my life you are incapable of getting rid of the illegal immigrants in this country. go tell your hate-filled world view to my neighbors, who have ten people living in a small house and work their asses off to support their family and their other family members back in mexico. somehow they are lazy and just looking for handouts, right?

sorry to rant and bring more hate, but I get fed up with ignorant people such as you who have such loud mouths but absolutely no knowledge of the real world or how it works.
 
He is against it BUT he is being a true constitutionalist and allowing the states to decide BECAUSE that is what the constitution calls for. That right there shows you how bad ass he is. Doesnt let his views rewrite the constitution.
 
supachronic99, you didint listen to anything i said and resorted to personal attacks. you misrepresented what i said to make your point. im not even going to respond to that
 
dude don't try to incite stuff. we're trying to have intelligent, reasonable conversation and it's working a little. i think eleven's issue is with extreme fundamentalist, gay-bashing, blindly-war-supporting, neo-con voting, etc. christians, not the faith on the whole.

i'm a christian and one of the things i respect about ron paul is that, while he IS a christian, he doesn't use his faith for political advantage.

 
Not necessarily. If you mearly got rid of the tax then yes there would be problems but Ron Paul plans on also cutting spending. The first federal income tax in the U.S. was imposed during the civil war, then in 1890, then after the 16th amendment was ratified in 1913 (from wikipedia). Before that there was no income tax and no real problem. The income tax helped the government grow much bigger and gain more power. Now there are manly government run programs that are paid in taxes but are actually going to come back to hurt us. If you want the government to baby people and treat people as if they cannot care for themselves then yes you need a large revenue such as the income tax but since the government does not make money this kind of treatment comes at a price. Income tax for rich people is nearly 50%. This means people like Bill Gates who donates lots of money and provides lots of jobs would instead of having 50 bil would have 100 bil. Thats twice as much for research, twice as much for expanding and providing better jobs, and twice as much charity. To get the things such as social security and health care people defenity pay a price and its the people who help the country the most that pay the most. This is a quote from the movie mentioned below: "If present trends continue, by 2040 the entire federal budget will be consumed by social security and medicare alone..."

Everywhere you see huge governments but never small except for when the U.S. was founded and grew all of its wealth. The government should have military to fight foreign criminal invaders and police for domestic criminals. Then there would be no need for an income tax. With all the programs today that are eventially going to hurt us you do.

For anyone who would like to learn more about Ron Paul here is a video that shows what he is all about.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FG_HuFtP8w8

Also thought I'd mention that the other candidates and government people hate Ron Paul and try to keep him out of the spot light because he does not hide the truth.
 
Yes I agree that the best way would be to legalize them but how? That would probly bring on a huge government investigation that would cost lots of money. I think what Ron Paul is acually doing will have a good effect. All the immigrants that are kicked out will know how good our lifestyles our and that will be their incentive to come back legally. Plus I bet many who came over illigally would have came legally eventually if they knew the boarders where imppossible to cross illigally.
 
The IRS came around 1862 and the income tax came officially in 1913 and extremly expanded goverment. The previous small government worked fine without one before.

The main reason Ron Paul wants to bring the gold standard back is because it cannot be printed. When the government is lacking funds that is one way they pay. They print more money which lowers the value of every dollar making every American poorer.

He is against abortion and capital punishment but thinks that philosophically the issues are very complicated. Since they are so complicated he thinks that he cannot make it a national law and must let each state decide on its own. It is giving people the choice.
 
no he has clearly said that he thinks all religion is twisted and corrupt. and there aren't any neo cons on ballots so stop using that term. i have a problem with the crazy people 2 but those people make up less than 1% of all people of faith.
 
This is a really good point and something I think would happen all over the market without so many regulations and government domination.
 
yes i did you retarded cunt.

i cant remember the thread but i said that religion is only bad when it gets corrupted and you said that its been corrupt and twisted from the beginning. give me a few minuites and ill find it
 
K2Tanner

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Sep 1 2007

11:13:47

Quote Reply Quoting Eleven from Sep 1 2007 11:09:49:

everything you said in this post is wrong. you know whats quite humorous is that almost everything in every one of your posts is wrong. including the one i just qouted

 
how in the hell did i misqoute you? go look at the thread. you just simply wont admit that you were wrong in saying that i was wrong.
 
wow you skinny little fuck, you are wrong. i said religion is inherently twisted. the only word you got right was twisted. amazing, thats still a misqoute. everyone except for kucinich,gravel and paul are neocons. look at there voting record.
 
wow your arguing that i didnt qoute you in this thread?

Quoting Eleven from Sep 1 2007 11:09:49:

everything you said in this post is wrong.

you know whats quite humorous is that almost everything in every one of your posts is wrong. including the one i just qouted

this text was copyed from my browser. i think we are on different internets
 
no im not , your right , you hit the qoute button, i thought we were talking about what i said about religion not if you literally hit the fucking qoute button. you put words in my mouth and you got your facts wrong but you did hit the qoute button. good for you. now leave or try to use some braincells and contribute to the discussion. go be a drama whore somewhere else
 
oh yeah you said that about religion. you said i did not qoute you. you still have yet to answer me on how you can like ron paul if hes a christian because you did say that religion is inherently twisted now didnt you?

i thnk ron paul would probably become president to actually do good for america and not just to beat the republicans. but my opinion doesnt matter at all in the political arena because im not 18 yet.
 
It seems that all the politicians running for president base their views on what they think will make the biggest crowd happy.

Ron Paul seems to be the only one who truly believes in what he supports. He wants America to be the free country that its hyped up to be and he really cares about it. Ron Paul 08
 
i'm gonna say the same thing i posted in the other ron paul thread:

Sure, he has some domestic poicies that everyone could find at least one they didn't like... no one's the same. for me, i don't agree with him on abortion. However, his domestic policies are checked by Congress and state governments. What our country really needs right now is RADICAL change in foreign policy and our general image that we protray to the rest of the world. Having a president like Ron Paul would bring about this immediate change... which in response would bring in more foreign direct investement which would help lower our debt. It would also decrease our need to spend so much on defense because the rest of the world wouldn't want to hate us as much. It would also increase our export income and possibly decrease our dependancy on foreign products.

In other words, what we really need to focus on is our interactions with the rest of the world. there are enough politicians left in the US that we can barade to work on our domestic pollicies. Lets actually hold our representatives, senators, and governors to do their jobs too.
 
oh, and to skiierman: involving the texas straw poll, it isn't a sure thing that he should win, or that everyone in texas is going to love him. he represents just one of texas' many districts, not the state. but thank you for stragitening out some of the stances on the evironment; that was helpful for this thread.

and as to the gold standard: by cutting spending and managing our budget, it could be possible to bring our country back to the gold standard. swizerland has done it and they are very prosperous... although yes, their economy is smaller than ours, i do not think that it is out of the question for our country and should be strived for.
 
From today.

Wednesday, September 05, 2007

GOP Presidential Straw Poll Is A Big Success



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

September 5, 2007

Maryland GOP Presidential Straw Poll Is A Big Success

Grassroots Candidate Wins Surprise Upset

ANNAPOLIS— After

eleven days of presidential straw poll ballots cast at the Maryland

Republican Party’s State Fair booth, Congressman Ron Paul (R-Texas) was

announced last night as the winner.

The Maryland Republican Party’s first-ever presidential straw poll

at the State Fair resulted in nearly 1,000 Marylanders casting a vote

for their favorite Republican candidate for president. The straw poll

was open to all voting age adults regardless of party affiliation, and

the voter had to be present at the booth. The campaigns of all nine

presidential candidates appearing on the ballot were invited to have a

representative at the State Fair booth at all times. While most

campaigns did not have a representative present, the Ron Paul campaign

had full representation for all eleven days.

Congressman Ron Paul came in first place with 263 votes, Mayor Rudy

Giuliani was second with 220 votes, and Senator Fred Thompson received

188 votes, which garnered the third place spot. The rest of the votes

were cast as follows: 89 votes for Governor Mitt Romney, 54 votes for

Senator John McCain, 35 votes for Governor Mike Huckabee, 17 votes for

Speaker Newt Gingrich (write-in), 16 votes for Congressman Tom

Tancredo, 12 votes for Senator Sam Brownback, 3 votes for Congressman

Duncan Hunter, and 3 votes for Governor Bob Ehrlich (write-in). There

were 11 other write-in votes for individual people. There were also a

number of spoiled ballots that were not counted.

Dr. Jim Pelura, Chairman of the Maryland Republican Party, released the following statement:

“When we came up with the idea of holding our first-ever

presidential straw poll at the State Fair, we never expected such a

large turnout. We were extremely pleased by the steady flow of people

casting a vote in the straw poll, signing our petitions opposing the

gas tax increase, sales tax increase, and illegal immigration, and

picking up a “Don’t Blame Me…I Voted For Ehrlich” bumper sticker. We

heard loud and clear that Marylanders are not happy with the direction

of our state under one-party rule.”

Chris Cavey, First Vice Chairman of the Maryland Republican Party

and Co-Chairman of the MDGOP’s State Fair Planning Committee, stated

the following:

“The final vote showing Ron Paul won is a lesson for all campaigns

of how grassroots politics can make all the difference. The Paul

campaign repeatedly e-mailed their base of support to turn out at the

State Fair to cast a vote for Dr. Paul, and in doing so, demonstrated

that a small organized operation can beat the odds.” Cavey continued,

“The Maryland Republican Party’s booth at the State Fair was a huge

success. By contrast, the Democrat Party’s booth was a ghost town.

Where were the Democrats? They were at our booth signing our petitions

opposing tax increases.”

 
no not really. he wants to leave it up for the states to decide and not have it be decided at a federal level
 
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