Rocker vs Camber for how long a ski feels

K

Kulharin

Member
I have been reading reviews for the Liberty Origin 106 and a few have stated that it feels like a shorter ski in the front. I am not sure about their frame of reference. The ski has a 15% tail rocker and a 20% tip rocker with a 65% camber.

I am currently on a Nordica Enforcer 100 from 2018 in a 185 length which has a 5% tail rocker and 25% tip rocker with a 70% camber. It doesn't at all feel like a shorter ski. I used to ski the K2 Pinnacle 95 in a 184 and that did feel like a shorter ski.

The mount point on both skis is pretty similar. So wouldn't the Origin actually ski/feel a bit longer than my enforcer in the front, and a bit shorter in the back? The newer enforcers have much more rocker in both the tip and the tail.

I am trying to figure out if I want to go for a 182 or a 187 Origin 106. Are their other factors here I am not considering?
 
Check to see if blister has pics of the rocker profiles. % rocker only means so much, I don't believe the origin has metal in it and its probably softer and more playful than an enforcer 100 so a longer length won't 'feel' as long even if the contact patch on snow is a little longer
 
i have noticed that both the height of camber and tip taper can make a ski feel quite different. don't know if that is the case of these.

there are so many factors to how a ski feels, both materials, sidecut and even just a small difference in the edge angle makes a difference.
 
Based on the blister photos the the Origin looks like it has a longer tip rocker than the Enforcer. My hold world is turned upside down.

The origin looks like it sits between the Enforcer 100 and Pinnacle 95 in this regards.
 
All measurements are here for Origin 106 in both 182 and 187, Nordica Enforcer (22-23 and 19-20, not quite yours) and Pinnacle 95 Ti 18-19.

To assess how long a ski will feel, I typically look at a few things (and I don't quite have the same numbers as you... rocker length seems to be reversed between the E100 and O106):

- True measured length: all close within 1 cm of quoted spec.

- Running length (how much ski touches the snow when laying flat). The liberty Origin 106 is around 58% of full length. The Enforcer 100 22-23 is at 73% (about 20-25 cm longer). The O106 182 is 6 cm shorter in running length than the 187 (RL doesn't always scale with quoted length).

- Sidecut length (if you edge the ski, this is how much of it could potentially touch the snow depending on how fast/much the tip/tail raises and widen). All skis are comparable at around 153 cm due to the long "early rise" of the Origin 106.

- You can also look at tip/tail rocker lengths and tip/tail taper lengths, but these are related to running length and sidecut length.

- Mass: The E100 is about 300-400 g heavier than the O106 and P95. The O106 will be easier to maneuver.

- Stiffness: The E100, specially the 22-23, is stiffer in both torsion and flexion by a fair bit (20-40%) than the O106. Both O106 are about the same. The P95 is close to the 22-23 Enforcer.

- The E100 has 9mm of camber instead of 4 mm for all other skis. More stiffness, more camber and more running length will make the E100 more stable/engaged with the snow (feel longer).

One thing to note between all these skis is their different sidecut radius: E100 at 18, Pinnacle at 16, O106 182 at 20 and O106 187 at 22 m.

Pretty much everything points out in the direction that the O106 will be easier to maneuver than the E100 (except maybe sidecut). I don't think I would scale down if you are comfortable with the E100 185.

Hope this help!
 
That is super helpful thanks!

I also have Icelantic Nomand 115's, unfortunately that ski is not available for comparison
 
14490541:Kulharin said:
Any place I can find the pinnacle 95 effective edge?
Click to expand...
https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/2018-2019-k2-pinnacle-95-ti/3

Take a look at the rocker profile it looks like a pretty short running length. The review might provide more information if you haven't read it.

That said...all the info [tag=281927]@alude[/tag] provided points toward the Origin 106 in the 187cm length. I think you're overthinking it.
 
14490541:Kulharin said:
Any place I can find the pinnacle 95 effective edge?
Click to expand...

Interesting, it should be on the link that I provided, but we have a NA in the table. I am not sure why and I should check the code (when I have time). We don't have info on tip length/height before we upgraded the machine in 2020, but running length should be available.

In the meantime, you can zoom on the side-view graphs and you will get a good idea. You can remove other skis by clicking in the legend to see it better. Running length is about 105-110 cm.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top