Revision Messed Up

[-Dan]

Revision would not pass as CORE in any other action sport industry. I honestly don't think you would be backing these guys if it wasn't for the connection you have with them. Middle age recreational skiers who made some money in the bio-med / pharm industry starts a ski company, seeking investors! NOT CORE.

The fact that you are on the fence with Line and Armada really shows how delusional(naive maybe) your mind set is. If Line or Armada goes away the core of this industry will stuffer greatly. These brands have been and are the backbone of free skiing. If revision goes away tomorrow, poof...

I will note that I'm not totally writing off the brand, will also note that when you're coming out of left field with no street cred its going to take more than a few seasons to prove your self.

My connection with Revision right now isnt any different than my connection with yoke. I have friends that get hooked up by them, I know the owners and what they have done for skiing plus what they want to do for skiing, and I see value in what each brand is doing. Thats why I support them, and mention them when I list off brands that I fuck with.

I could be naive, I don't rule that out. Seems like the only way i've been able to learn more is by speaking out can getting to hear other's perspectives. Might even be delusional. Not because of my beliefs on Line and Armada tho. I was just saying to hot pocket that I used to rule out Line/Armada but after some conversations with people that reached out to me- I further developed my opinion to include them. Would love to have conversations like that with you if you ever have some time.

 

[Jibberino]

Revision would not pass as CORE in any other action sport industry. I honestly don't think you would be backing these guys if it wasn't for the connection you have with them. Middle age recreational skiers who made some money in the bio-med / pharm industry starts a ski company, seeking investors! NOT CORE.

The fact that you are on the fence with Line and Armada really shows how delusional(naive maybe) your mind set is. If Line or Armada goes away the core of this industry will stuffer greatly. These brands have been and are the backbone of free skiing. If revision goes away tomorrow, poof...

Why the hate for Revision? I'm legitimately interested as I seem to be out of the loop when it comes to Revisions history in the industry.

 

[skiznuts]

Depending on where he lives, it could be. Aren't there some hills on the east coast that open up Late November/Early December then end up closing Feb/March?

Yeah my hill (camp fortune in chelsea quebec) opened yesterday and I think the last day I skied last season was march 1st, maybe later

 

[yoke]

Why the hate for Revision? I'm legitimately interested as I seem to be out of the loop when it comes to Revisions history in the industry.

No actucal hate here.

I just think the way Dan portrays the brand as this rider owned, super core company is a bit of BS. I don't buy it or believe it. That is my opinion.

To me, it seems like they are trying to capitalize on "core". They failed as Epic Planks, re-structured, and probably realize they needed a more effective and convictional marketing. Sure, they've flowed a few dope skiers gear and sponsored a few media projects in the last couple years but does that make you core. Not in my opinion.

I'm not necessarily discounting these guys as I've already stated but we as a community should alway be skeptical and hesitant of what i would consider industry outsiders.

I've also been around long enough to see the same business model and marketing tactics be used over and over by start ups. Pump up a "core" team, ofter skis for real cheap, get the word out. Few year later investors get nervous about their investment. Teams get cut, projects de-funded. game over.

 

[SteadySpaghetti]

It also doesn't help that their website is down and they haven't included any details on how this $100 coupon will be accessed

Im sure the skis will be fun but I don't think Ill ever find myself in the process of ordering from them very again,

their support staff is extremely slow with the responses even though they promise 2 days to respond at most, they often do not answer at all.

There is no phone number to call and talk out problems

Like I said im sure ill have fun once my skis come, but i definitely won't be ordering skis from them again

 

[AngryGramps]

No actucal hate here.

I just think the way Dan portrays the brand as this rider owned, super core company is a bit of BS. I don't buy it or believe it. That is my opinion.

To me, it seems like they are trying to capitalize on "core". They failed as Epic Planks, re-structured, and probably realize they needed a more effective and convictional marketing. Sure, they've flowed a few dope skiers gear and sponsored a few media projects in the last couple years but does that make you core. Not in my opinion.

I'm not necessarily discounting these guys as I've already stated but we as a community should alway be skeptical and hesitant of what i would consider industry outsiders.

I've also been around long enough to see the same business model and marketing tactics be used over and over by start ups. Pump up a "core" team, ofter skis for real cheap, get the word out. Few year later investors get nervous about their investment. Teams get cut, projects de-funded. game over.

Interesting thoughts here. My question to you would be this, Is it not good for the industry for a company to emerge, sponsor a team, and be run by somebody who knows what they're doing as a businessperson? It seems to me like it would make lots of sense for somebody with experience building and growing business in both the ski industry and a more forgiving, higher margin industry to run a company that can actually be successful and be able to be solid enough to support real projects and a dope team. Look at faction, they have been able to support amazing content and a rad team by securing investors and running a growing business. They were successful and have contributed quite a bit to free skiing.

Every company is a start up at one point, and not every one will survive. take what you learned, and try again to make yourself legitimately better. If investors help you as a company better freeskiing by bettering yourself is that not a good thing? all companies need some capital to start, and most skiers don't have that capital. In my opinion having investors or having an owner who has money from another career doesn't immediately disqualify a company from being core, just like it doesn't immediately make you core. Just because somebody has not made their money in the ski industry doesn't mean that they love skiing any less than you or I.

In my opinion being core is defined by your actions and your convictions as a company. do you do business to make money and better the community you are a part of? or do you do business to exploit some market that you think might exist? I am of the personal belief and experience that Revision is part of that first camp. It may not be your opinion and you may disagree with my assessment but thats my $.02

I would consider you a core brand, why would you consider yourselves core?

 

[tyrol]

Does anyone else find the name "Revision" hilarious? I mean it's pretty tongue in cheek for the second try at a ski company after Epic Planks failed. I wonder what the next company will be called, maybe "Here comes the 0-2 Pitch" or "Maybe this will work"

OMG I'm dying, just brutal.

To everybody having the "core" conversation- whether big brands like Armada/Atomic are core, euros like Black Crows/Faction, indys like ON3P/Moment, whatever, all the real core brands have quality at their backbone. Revision has been a cash grab since day 1. They get skis on invoice for under $100 in China, sell them for $250 with a "great warranty", then after they inevitably fail on day 3 they send you a new pair that suddenly does not have a warranty. The dude in charge makes cash, you get garbage to ski on for 3 days. The worst part of the whole thing is that you may miss out on an awesome day while you are walking to the bottom on broken gear.

2 years of garbage and now they can't even deliver garbage on time. Imagine how bad the quality of their first deliveries must have been if the lowest quality ski company in the industry wouldn't even accept them. The saddest part are next summer people will fall for the $299 presale again thinking they are getting an awesome deal and then get screwed by this douche.

 

[reet.gang]

I feel you man I saw revision had some great prices and purchased a pare of their skis. I shit the bed when I read the email. MID JANUARY!! Sure the $100 coupon is nice, whats not nice is the $500 seasons pass I will be missing out on because of this. I'd like to know what this is going to do to them.

 

[hoodcrew]

Tall T like the Donald Trump of skiing

 

[Rparr]

lol are you guys really surprised. Revision literally sells the worst quality skis out there. Out of the 5 skiers at my home hill who bought revisions last year, every single one of them broke the skis by the middle of the season.

 

[CarsonDaSkier]

I understand that brands like atomic and K2 are not considered "core" and that they don't pump money back into free skiing, but you're not getting a shitty ski. They actually perform. I personally own on3ps, but i had k2s for two seasons, and i beat my skis senselessly. They still performed like the day i bought them. I consider myself more of a core skier but Im not going to buy a bad ski just its "core". Ive always respected Dan, but I think you should be honest no matter your affiliation. Thats just my opinion

 

[Gunter]

I ordered Hg's in August and they got delayed as well. Supposed to ship mid December. My friend ordered Revisions as well and I feel bad for both or you

 

[Newschoolers55]

OMG I'm dying, just brutal.

To everybody having the "core" conversation- whether big brands like Armada/Atomic are core, euros like Black Crows/Faction, indys like ON3P/Moment, whatever, all the real core brands have quality at their backbone. Revision has been a cash grab since day 1. They get skis on invoice for under $100 in China, sell them for $250 with a "great warranty", then after they inevitably fail on day 3 they send you a new pair that suddenly does not have a warranty. The dude in charge makes cash, you get garbage to ski on for 3 days. The worst part of the whole thing is that you may miss out on an awesome day while you are walking to the bottom on broken gear.

2 years of garbage and now they can't even deliver garbage on time. Imagine how bad the quality of their first deliveries must have been if the lowest quality ski company in the industry wouldn't even accept them. The saddest part are next summer people will fall for the $299 presale again thinking they are getting an awesome deal and then get screwed by this douche.

If the guys at Revision only wanted the money, they wouldnt be in the ski industry.

 

[RevisionSkis]

Thanks for your comments, guys. We are as bummed about the delay as you are.

Unfortunately the factory started our build by pressing a fair amount of skis with full poplar cores (last year’s spec), rather than poplar/bamboo cores as designed and ordered for 2016/2017. We had to ask them to replace those pairs for build consistency and to deliver skis as promised, which set everything back.

All skis are now on route and orders will be fulfilled as soon as the shipment hits our warehouse. We are promising an updated ship date of the first week of January but anticipate shipping sooner.

We are always working to improve our build and ride quality. We stand behind our skis with the best warranty in the industry and have seen warranty rates decrease significantly each season as our quality has increased.

Thanks for your patience. We are truly sorry for this unanticipated shipping delay and hope that the website discount sent to prepaid customers will help ease the pain.

Cheers,

Revision Skis

 

[Mowen]

Thanks for your comments, guys. We are as bummed about the delay as you are.

Unfortunately the factory started our build by pressing a fair amount of skis with full poplar cores (last year’s spec), rather than poplar/bamboo cores as designed and ordered for 2016/2017. We had to ask them to replace those pairs for build consistency and to deliver skis as promised, which set everything back.

All skis are now on route and orders will be fulfilled as soon as the shipment hits our warehouse. We are promising an updated ship date of the first week of January but anticipate shipping sooner.

We are always working to improve our build and ride quality. We stand behind our skis with the best warranty in the industry and have seen warranty rates decrease significantly each season as our quality has increased.

Thanks for your patience. We are truly sorry for this unanticipated shipping delay and hope that the website discount sent to prepaid customers will help ease the pain.

Cheers,

Revision Skis

I understand that this was not necessarily your fault, but going from an original shipping date of mid November to early January is quite the jump. Especially when you consider the fact that we wait all year to be ready to ride at the start of the season.

I have a pair of dedicated park skis, and purchased a pair of Blinks during your presale this summer. I need a pair of wider skis, and the Blinks seemed like they fit my riding style fairly well. But now, it's BEST case I receive the skis Mid January, meaning I wont get them mounted and back to me until the end of January. At this point I will have missed out on most of the major storms at my home mountain, and will be forced to try to ride my park skis during the pow days at the various resorts I have trips planned for.

It says on your website that there are no cancellations on orders placed during presale, but given this current situation, that's pretty bullshit. I'm going to purchase a different pair of skis at my local shop, and simply return your skis if they ever even get to me. And to top it all off, I can't even call you guys because there is no phone number provided on your website. Which wouldn't even be a problem if you responded to Emails.

I wanted to be confident in my Revision purchase as I have had enjoyable experiences with other smaller brands in the past (I currently ride ON3P Filthy Riches), but at this point I'm nothing but frustrated. I'm a college student, and maintain a fairly strict budget. Now I'm attempting to pull money out of my ass to pay for different skis because I have $400 tied up in my Revision order. Buying skis is meant to be fun, that's one of the last words that comes to mind when thinking about this experience.

 

[GrandThings]

3/10 would not buy Revision

 

[Upstate_Willis]

I ordered Hg's in August and they got delayed as well. Supposed to ship mid December. My friend ordered Revisions as well and I feel bad for both or you

Yeah I'm in the same situation with the HGs, however luckily it's only two weeks away.

 

[Jcamotts]

Thanks for your comments, guys. We are as bummed about the delay as you are.

Unfortunately the factory started our build by pressing a fair amount of skis with full poplar cores (last year’s spec), rather than poplar/bamboo cores as designed and ordered for 2016/2017. We had to ask them to replace those pairs for build consistency and to deliver skis as promised, which set everything back.

All skis are now on route and orders will be fulfilled as soon as the shipment hits our warehouse. We are promising an updated ship date of the first week of January but anticipate shipping sooner.

We are always working to improve our build and ride quality. We stand behind our skis with the best warranty in the industry and have seen warranty rates decrease significantly each season as our quality has increased.

Thanks for your patience. We are truly sorry for this unanticipated shipping delay and hope that the website discount sent to prepaid customers will help ease the pain.

Cheers,

Revision Skis

I understand these things happen, and I very much appreciate the $100 coupon but at this point we should be able to get a refund. Yes I understand that you can't cancel the order on pre-order sales or whatever, but this type of situation is unprecedented. Being skiers yourselves, its just not fair to keep us waiting until January and put a good portion of the season down the drain. Don't get me wrong I would be super stoked on these skis regardless of the ship-date IF the new date wasn't almost half way into my ski season.

I pre-ordered these skis expecting them to be shipped mid November, not mid January. I assume because of this you would refund the skis.

Hopefully we can work things out.

or you could just ignore me because who really knows at this point right?

 

[Jcamotts]

^ like what mattaowen said,

We can't contact over the phone and you probably have hundreds of emails saying exactly what I'm saying so how are we supposed to get in touch?

 

[Session]

The Federal Trade Commission's mail order rule requires that for mail order requires that the seller ship it to you in the time frame it specified in its offer to you. If it does not specify a time period, then the time period is set by the rule at 30 days. If the seller is unable to ship by the promised time, it must give the buyer a refund unless the buyer gives consent for a later shipping date.

 

[BrokenBones]

The Federal Trade Commission's mail order rule requires that for mail order requires that the seller ship it to you in the time frame it specified in its offer to you. If it does not specify a time period, then the time period is set by the rule at 30 days. If the seller is unable to ship by the promised time, it must give the buyer a refund unless the buyer gives consent for a later shipping date.

Ahh, but you only have the rights you can enforce. : (

 

[Jcamotts]

The Federal Trade Commission's mail order rule requires that for mail order requires that the seller ship it to you in the time frame it specified in its offer to you. If it does not specify a time period, then the time period is set by the rule at 30 days. If the seller is unable to ship by the promised time, it must give the buyer a refund unless the buyer gives consent for a later shipping date.

Ahh, but you only have the rights you can enforce. : (

They should refund the skis regardless of this rule out of respect for me. It has nothing to to with rules its just not cool to basically deprive me of skiing for a solid month and a half.

I bought these to have fun skiing and now I might end up not skiing because of this so...

 

[Park_Ranger]

Yay get bent tall t Dan!!!!

 

[tcurle]

Tall T like the Donald Trump of skiing

but credible with valid arguments

 

[-Dan]

Yay get bent tall t Dan!!!!

but credible with valid arguments

Yeah not really understanding why people would argue against supporting core brands. In this case specifically it's fine if you don't consider Revision to be one, gotta respect your opinion since personal definitions seems to vary. I just don't imagine any of the people in this thread going to a farmers market and telling people there that the grocery store sells produce too. Not a perfect analogy but you get the idea.

 

[peterpants]

If the guys at Revision only wanted the money, they wouldnt be in the ski industry.

Thank youu, if everyone is mad that Revision is such a cash grab and marketing gimmick to try to just take money from our "core", if its only about money they wouldn't be working in skiing, supposedly its the same as epic planks and has failed already? Then there is no way there isn't passion for skiing behind the company, plus they put money into things I enjoy watching? The reviboyz wouldnt be a thing and they have put out some of my favourite content in the last year... I am not sure exactly what the relationship between them Revision is, but it sure seems like they get alot of creative freedom...is that not what the people want? Ski companies run by people passionate about skiing, giving back to things we all enjoy?

Maybe I just don't see why there is all the hate, they're just trying to work in an industry they care about, do cool things, make a fun product, then they have issues with their factory and everybody hates them? I personally have had no issues with their build quality after extensive use, maybe everybody is just butthurt about something else and taking it out on revision...

 

[ubcno]

Would anyone be able to tell me how to cancel an order with Revision? I know its a little bit off topic but i dunno how haha. Placed it just today, follow up email told me that shipping date would be early Jan which makes me miss out on my Uni ski trip. Already super stressed as it is and I think im better off buying elsewhere. Also, I didn't make an account with them (I'm not sure if this affects order cancellations / refunds).

Thanks

 

[THESAUCEPOSSE]

don't knock revisions until you ride em. the talismans are some of the most fun and versatile sticks out there. skis break from time to time, that shit is a given, but for like 300 bucks hey, get two pairs a season and you'll be good. whaddya expect fam, get what you pay for.

but for real, the skis are actually mad fun, perfect flex in the tips and tails, and great stability underfoot. some of my favorite skis i've ever ridden. and when they break, they send you a free pair. stop whining yall, yeah it sucks that there's some production delays, but if you are really impatient then get yourself some $750 on3ps and smash those on rails. they're far from invincible as well, i know from experience. (no shade towards on3p, the brand is brolic and we love yall)

tl:dr, if you expected a $300 chinese ski to never break, you playing yourself and your worldview is mad skewed, keep it realistic guys. they'll send you another pair if you break em. es lo que es

 

[.otto.]

Depending on where he lives, it could be. Aren't there some hills on the east coast that open up Late November/Early December then end up closing Feb/March?

bruh my season last year was january 7 to march 3

 

[peteythefish]

Wonder if Revision will sell the defect skis for a hot deal. I had no problem with the poplar cores last season!

 

[.otto.]

The fact that this many people are hating and not supporting core brands really scares me for the future.

same, but yokes argument was that revision isnt core, they but on the facade that they are through a few key steps, to "exploit" the market

revision used to be epic planks and epic planks was a shit show

 

[SofaKingSick]

Yeah revision's durability is a joke. I bought a pair of talismans last season, dropped a 10ft cliff, landed on a rock and one ski blew up straight through the core. Bought them secondhand still-wrapped so i didn't get the warranty.

inb4 "thats what you get for dropping cliffs ya dummy." I've done way nastier shit to volkls and they've held up far better.

Shame too, they were wildly fun to ride. Expect to go through that warranty within a season.

interesting, because mine have held up to my abuse really well. i landed on a rock off a cliff as well and expected the ski to be totaled, but instead just found a core shot

YMMV of course, but ive been really happy with my talismans, esp since i got them for so cheap

 

[Session]

The fact that this many people are hating and not supporting core brands really scares me for the future.

Apparently the recipe to be a "core" brand is as follows.

Have a factory in China replicate a popular ski. (float the purchase with preorders)

Give some to people with instagram.

Have a vimeo channel.

The funny part is the "core" bro's then will talk shit on any big brand who literally were the ones that funded the early development of your scene. But once they stop sponsoring whoever you are dick riding this week, they are public enemy number one.

What happens when your favorite "core" brand has to make a business decision and drops a portion of their team that are not living up to their end of the deal?

There are "core" brands out there who have built a solid brand, and are invested in the industry, it's not just a hobby for them. You know who they are. I say support people who are working hard, not just sending an order off to some dude they talked to on Alibaba.

 

[Session]

Session please, show me where I talked shit about any big brand?

You are only furthing my point.

Not you necessarily, and I probably should not have quoted you. But those people do exist.

 

[Emma_Watson]

But at least they're "core" bro.

damn kids and their core!!!!

why are you so salty man?

 

[SammyDubz]

The fact that this many people are hating and not supporting core brands really scares me for the future.

I think you're jumping to conclusions.....I think the guys who purchased skis from Revision and are having to wait have every reason to be displeased. Doesn't mean they hate every core brand, doesn't mean they don't support other core brands...

Just because a brand is "core" and supports the ski industry doesn't mean people can't express their displeasure with them.

 

[SammyDubz]

Oh ya 100%, I should've been more clear I wasn't exactly replying to the thread discussion it was more to the overall lack of support.

Core, not core, ordering strippers everyone has the right to complain if their order is late

Ah my bad misinterpreted what you were saying.

 

[Session]

Fair enough my guy,

Just hear me out and let me put it this way,

People are going to support the people that support what they support. If you like to watch Dale, Geopper, etc, in x games, in the super park shoots, you are going to buy from those brands either way, core or not.

If you like the bunch movies, enjoy kilbrides edits, etc, you are going to buy whoever supports them, core or not. Either way, it's all skiing, we are all on the same team.

Peace and love family

It is all skiing. I'm just saying sometimes in the NS sphere of conciousness the key to entry should be more than a cool team, and a bunch of instagram posts. To be core. We have all seen lots of the skiers we love to support tie themselves to a brand that was supposed to be the second coming, only to see them dissolve after a season or two.

I buy everything I can by local small brands, but as a consumer i am not necessarily with them through thick and thin. The quality, supply, and support need to be there.

 

[TheDoughAbides]

YMMV of course, but ive been really happy with my talismans, esp since i got them for so cheap

Yeah i should let everyone know that they were first gen talismans.

If Revision's durability improved I would totally consider purchasing another pair even if it meant they would be more expensive.

Bring your production stateside, Revision! You guys obviously care about the ski industry so why don't you put ski production in the hands of people who feel similarly?

 

[hemlockjibber8]

Classic NS thread mood swing.

 

[nooky]

slightly off-topic but how many peeps here have worked for a ski company that has does its production in the US?

I have (not gonna say which one bc i dont wanna deal w/ those fucktards anymore) and it sucked.

terrible pay, grueling and stupid work, fuck ton of stress, shitty management, owner and managers trash talking their riders behind their back, the same toxic misogynistic/racist ski bro culture...jus tryna point out that even 'core' brands can suck too.

idk just wanted to get that off my chest..

 

[GrandThings]

Classic NS thread mood swing.

Hahaha so true. Thank god we've established them as core!

 

[Slowbro]

The fact that this many people are hating and not supporting core brands really scares me for the future.

Why would I support a company that provides a bad product. I'd much rather spend the extra $150 or so on a set of Armada or Atomics that will ride better and last 4 times as long, or a bit more for some Icelantics or ON3P that will do the same while also supporting a "core company". Supporting companies that make low quality, standard products seem worse to me than putting money into companies with the assets to innovate and build higher quality products.

 

[egg.]

Tall T like the Donald Trump of skiing

this honestly got me so weak.

enjoying reading this thread, got a lot of openminded intellects on this site

 

[danbrown]

maybe "Here comes the 0-2 Pitch"

hahahah

and let me get this straight - they wont refund you, you wont be able to ride new skis until mid january, and all they did was give you $100 to spend on sweatshirts and hats and shit, to represent the company that's ruining half of your season? jesus christ.

give this kid his money back and make this god awful, nightmare of a customer experience go away.

 

[tcurle]

Yeah not really understanding why people would argue against supporting core brands. In this case specifically it's fine if you don't consider Revision to be one, gotta respect your opinion since personal definitions seems to vary. I just don't imagine any of the people in this thread going to a farmers market and telling people there that the grocery store sells produce too. Not a perfect analogy but you get the idea.

I'd like to voice a biased opinion based of this farmers market example which is actually spot on.

In the summer and fall I work for a farmers market when I'm not working at Moment Skis. The product at those markets was created by the people selling it. (this specific market doesn't allow people to sell fruit from pack-houses so it's all legit farmers) So, when someone tells me that they can get the same fruit at the grocery store for the same price I laugh because that product is shit compared to what I'm selling. When people buy from the farmers markets it supports the farmers directly.

Similarly, when I am working at the Moment factory I can take pride in my work because the skis are built by people I know and what is now a staff of all die hard skiers. Moment, ON3P, 4frnt, and others are usually going to be similar prices compared to Atomic, Line, Armada, etc.

What I consider a big difference in ski brands is my definition of "core", aside from supporting athletes and projects. Don't get me wrong, teams and rider support is huge, but I want to point out where the money goes when you buy that ski. For Moment and ON3P the price of that ski includes U.S. labor, where a k2/Line ski's labor is obviously substantially cheaper. The money you spend on a core brand goes directly to the people building your ski, instead of shipping costs from China.

I basically have a lot more respect for the "core" brands who make their own skis, vs. companies who buy them from other factories in other countries.

 

[Session]

I'd like to voice a biased opinion based of this farmers market example which is actually spot on.

In the summer and fall I work for a farmers market when I'm not working at Moment Skis. The product at those markets was created by the people selling it. (this specific market doesn't allow people to sell fruit from pack-houses so it's all legit farmers) So, when someone tells me that they can get the same fruit at the grocery store for the same price I laugh because that product is shit compared to what I'm selling. When people buy from the farmers markets it supports the farmers directly.

Similarly, when I am working at the Moment factory I can take pride in my work because the skis are built by people I know and what is now a staff of all die hard skiers. Moment, ON3P, 4frnt, and others are usually going to be similar prices compared to Atomic, Line, Armada, etc.

What I consider a big difference in ski brands is my definition of "core", aside from supporting athletes and projects. Don't get me wrong, teams and rider support is huge, but I want to point out where the money goes when you buy that ski. For Moment and ON3P the price of that ski includes U.S. labor, where a k2/Line ski's labor is obviously substantially cheaper. The money you spend on a core brand goes directly to the people building your ski, instead of shipping costs from China.

I basically have a lot more respect for the "core" brands who make their own skis, vs. companies who buy them from other factories in other countries.

Did we just become best friends?

 

[yellav]

the random recreation skiers that own this "core" company need to give these kids their money back. maybe they don't understand how much getting skis shipped to you in late January sucks because they're so "core", but this is truly fucked.

also "epic planks"? haha ya fr these guys core af.

 

[-Dan]

I'd like to voice a biased opinion based of this farmers market example which is actually spot on.

In the summer and fall I work for a farmers market when I'm not working at Moment Skis. The product at those markets was created by the people selling it. (this specific market doesn't allow people to sell fruit from pack-houses so it's all legit farmers) So, when someone tells me that they can get the same fruit at the grocery store for the same price I laugh because that product is shit compared to what I'm selling. When people buy from the farmers markets it supports the farmers directly.

Similarly, when I am working at the Moment factory I can take pride in my work because the skis are built by people I know and what is now a staff of all die hard skiers. Moment, ON3P, 4frnt, and others are usually going to be similar prices compared to Atomic, Line, Armada, etc.

What I consider a big difference in ski brands is my definition of "core", aside from supporting athletes and projects. Don't get me wrong, teams and rider support is huge, but I want to point out where the money goes when you buy that ski. For Moment and ON3P the price of that ski includes U.S. labor, where a k2/Line ski's labor is obviously substantially cheaper. The money you spend on a core brand goes directly to the people building your ski, instead of shipping costs from China.

I basically have a lot more respect for the "core" brands who make their own skis, vs. companies who buy them from other factories in other countries.

I think that domestic vs import is different than core vs not but I yes I do believe made in USA is an important factor when purchasing anything.

It's cool to make your own skis and less impact on the environment from bypassing shipping from overseas is dope. I just don't think you have to make your own skis to be core. If that's a factor for you in your vision of what a core brand is then I'm alright with that.

As as I said before, no one really talked about this shit when I was growing up so since I've started taking so loudly on the topic I've finally gotten to learn more perspectives and I'm thankful for that.

 

[Park.]

Great thread discussions. This is why I still love NS.

Ive seen two sides to this when it comes to company standpoints:

-The business side, where you treat the company first and foremost with a (small margin) profit based approach. This entails having companies do what they have to do to continue making money in a profitable way. Using offshore manufacturing, having corporate business decisions control the company, etc.

-The "Core" approach, where sacrificing profit margins in order to make a product that you want is a worthy sacrifice in the mind of the company owners.

While both of these methods can still be used for core brands, It seems like everyone is ignoring the fact that startups are difficult. J-Lev had a live stream last night where he even admitted that he wished he sent his skis to actual factories to be produced instead of making them all by himself. Revision clearly wants to create a company where they give back to the community, or they wouldn't be catering to the ski market in the way that they are.

Revision has taken the first approach to get their feet off the ground from what I can tell. I know that Bluehouse tried this method, although unsuccessfully, and I know that in a slightly unrelated realm, New Balance takes a core approach to what they do. Small quantities are just cheaper and more economically sound for a business to work on overseas, but using that cheaper method, while still producing a product that is reaching at what you truly want it to be is sometimes the only valid option with limited investments.

Building a brand (like what Revision has done) with the original imperfected skis that they used has allowed them to make a better quality product (Bamboo/poplar core? Rivets, fixed delamination problems, etc). Everyone has to start somewhere and Revision proving that given a chance, they are doing what they have set out to do in the first place; to have a company and products that supports what matters to them in skiing.

I see Revision as just a ski brand. While they are working at becoming a core brand, it has yet to be seen for me. Maybe I have missed it, but I haven't seen many contributions to the ski community from them just yet (I'm not trying to trash on them here). I also don't have any connections with the owners or employees like some people in this thread have, and depending on what these people have done also determines whether they are core or not to me.

I also want to address the hate towards Dan. I've met this dude and hes a rad guy. He is one of the people I can confidently say has an ideal image of what freeskiing should be, and I greatly respect that. He has actually given enough of a fuck to do something about it as well, which is why I appreciate his presence in the ski community as much as I do. I very rarely see people with the motivation to push their ideals on what they care about and to have the impact that he does, and a massive reason for why this can even happen is the community and how it supports and cares about the people that care about the sport (like someone already mentioned).

If you have to hate on someone, atleast give some legit backing for why which might actually spark a worthy conversation, instead of childish insults.