Religon Vs. Science

3

3than0d311

Member
So, I come from a very religious family (close and extended). I was kind of the black sheep and never really went or gave a damn. It was merely a waste of a morning and a waste of time. I have been going to church more recently because my local "rich people" resort has a deal where if you bring a church bulletin you get a $10 lift ticket.

Anyway, ive been doing some research for school and realized that there were many civilizations that were thriving during the time of "the great flood". I did a little more digging and found out that none of them (in very detailed record) mentioned a life ending flood that plagued the earth.

So i did some more searching and the same idea applies to evolution. Now, evolution is about 98% proven and some loose ends are being tied up where as In the bible it says god created a man and a woman and that was that.

Now here is my issue. I want to beleive that their is a higher power for self help. But fuck, man. Science is proof.

I want any and all proof no matter what you beleive. I dont care if you dont beleive or hail satan. And dont pull the whole "well dont beleive this, beleive this"
 
I won't tell you what to believe or not believe. I just want this for threads. But...remember what Descartes said--your senses can be very deceptive. You use your senses to determine how reasonable something is, and that can be deceptive. If you live your life based solely on reason you will be single and probably quite crazy...reason is not a solid rock to base your life on. You can be a reasonable person and believe supposedly "unreasonable" things. You will probably get a lot of hate and ridicule, but the people who are hated and ridiculed a lot of times have many valid beliefs.
 
I consider myself an agnostic mostly because I can't comprehend the idea of a blank consciousness after death, but I probably won't ever believe that the "divine" events in the bible actually happened.

I've always viewed the bible as a great collection of stories that can be a good guide for people who are having trouble finding their way, as there's a lot of great humanist and uplifting stories with concrete messages behind them. Same with Jesus - I think, assuming he existed - that he must have been a great preacher with good, positive lessons for his disciples, but I don't necessarily buy that he was the son of god.

Science won't ever truly "disprove" religion until it discovers what life and consciousness are. When the answer to "what is the origin of sentience?" has been rationally proven, I'll have what I need. Until then, I can't really say with any sort of authority or confidence what I believe.
 
13729603:Forcillo said:
I consider myself an agnostic mostly because I can't comprehend the idea of a blank consciousness after death, but I probably won't ever believe that the "divine" events in the bible actually happened.
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What did it feel like before you were born
 
13729544:Poindexter. said:
[img=]http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/283/235/7e3.jpg[/img]

but really dude, if you want to believe thats all there is to it. science cant disprove god, nor can it prove it. you can be religous while still following science.
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This.

So many arrogant people back home that are so quick to shit on any religion and tell you that there is no God. The most worldly, experienced, intelligent people I know either believe in some religion, God, or realize that they can't prove anything and that we as humans know very little.

I personally don't believe in a organized religion, but I do believe in some sort of higher power(s).

Although the theory of evolution is "on track", I still find the whole idea crazy. The fact the each and every one of us came from a big explosion, turned into a little organism floating in the water, then one day we grew eyes and fins then crawled out of water and then into lizards then monkey then humans. I don't know seems a little too crazy for me.

The thought of a God creating humans and the earth doesn't seem that crazy to me, but then I ask myself who was the creator of God? Thats what drives me bonkers, you know? Where does time begin and where does it end. We live in a world where everything has an origin.
 
13729620:Poindexter. said:
totally agree with you, and dont mean to knitpick but monkeys then humans is a misnomer that hurts the progress of getting the idea of evolution out there. we've evolved alongside monkeys out of a common ancestor.

not really a huge deal, and i know what youre trying to say. but using the wording of common ancestor rather than monkeys is a helping step forward to overall acceptance
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yeah thats true but still. the fact that we were once fish and lizards too and then primates is just crazy. its all crazy
 
13729615:.lencon said:
This.

The thought of a God creating humans and the earth doesn't seem that crazy to me, but then I ask myself who was the creator of God? Thats what drives me bonkers, you know? Where does time begin and where does it end. We live in a world where everything has an origin.
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You basically hit the nail on the head there. That just blows my mind that he just popped out of thin air in a sense
 
13729652:3than0d311 said:
You basically hit the nail on the head there. That just blows my mind that he just popped out of thin air in a sense
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Our ideas of existence are so earthly that it would be hard for us to truly understand the existence of a being not made up of cells
 
13729591:Dennis_Reynolds said:
I can hear sjw vigorously typing on his keyboard through my computer
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13729647:bait said:
SJW where u at
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Right here bitches. Not a fan of religion, I think the world would be a better place without it. But I also believe in ones personal beliefs and freedom to practice. I just don't want your religion getting in the way of scientific process. But you do you, as long as it doesn't affect me I literally don't give two shits
 
13729659:S.J.W said:
Right here bitches. Not a fan of religion, I think the world would be a better place without it. But I also believe in ones personal beliefs and freedom to practice. I just don't want your religion getting in the way of scientific process. But you do you, as long as it doesn't affect me I literally don't give two shits
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weak
 
religion is made up. you can have faith if you want but anyone who dismisses science because of religion is nothing short of a pants-on-head full retard.
 
13729666:GORILLAWALLACE said:
religion is made up. you can have faith if you want but anyone who dismisses science because of religion is nothing short of a pants-on-head full retard.
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UpVOOOOTTTTEEEE
 
13729675:MR.POOPYBUTTHOLE said:
nobody exists on purpose, nobody belongs anywhere, everyone is going to die.
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Alright buddy, sit the fuck down. Not looking for negativity. Not saying you are wrong, just looking for input not negg
 
Oh boy, another one of these threads!

I recommend reading works by Dr. Hugh Ross. Brilliant astrophysicist who is also a Christian. I'm currently reading his book called Beyond the Cosmos. It talks about God's extra-dimensionality. Tbh a lot of it goes over my head but it's still really interesting.

Anyway, I think my Christian belief and science go hand-in-hand rather than being a "vs". Just my thoughts though, I don't want to get into any debates however. Been in too many of those on here and nobody changes their mind in the end.
 
13729659:S.J.W said:
Right here bitches. Not a fan of religion, I think the world would be a better place without it. But I also believe in ones personal beliefs and freedom to practice. I just don't want your religion getting in the way of scientific process. But you do you, as long as it doesn't affect me I literally don't give two shits
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Weak sauce. I expected so much more
 
13729615:.lencon said:
Although the theory of evolution is "on track", I still find the whole idea crazy. The fact the each and every one of us came from a big explosion, turned into a little organism floating in the water, then one day we grew eyes and fins then crawled out of water and then into lizards then monkey then humans. I don't know seems a little too crazy for me.

The thought of a God creating humans and the earth doesn't seem that crazy to me, but then I ask myself who was the creator of God? Thats what drives me bonkers, you know? Where does time begin and where does it end. We live in a world where everything has an origin.
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(I'm not directing all of this at you, just some general points)

It's really weird, but that's what the evidence suggests... The evidence suggests that Evolution is a fact (hence why it is a scientific theory, not a mere hypothesis), that there was a Big Bang, Dark Matter/Dark Energy, Quantum Theory, etc. These aren't just fancy ideas that sound good- there is strong evidence that leads us to these conclusions. To deny something when there is evidence & repeatable, testable experiments for it, is idiotic. If there was evidence for the existence of God(s), by all means we should follow it. But, there is no such evidence- just a bunch of conflicting, unjustified beliefs founded on faith and hearsay.

We should believe things when there is sufficient evidence supporting it. And it becomes foolish to believe things when there is insufficient evidence to support it. No professional scientist pursues something because of faith, they

pursue something because there is evidence suggesting they should. Even the most religious scientist knows this- their career as a scientist would end immediately if they started making claims they couldn't back up with evidence. Religion, on the other hand, claims the opposite- faith is ultimately what you need and it trumps reason & fact. Moreover, you often need to suspend the laws of nature to make room for faith and many claims in the Bible (and other religious texts). Religious faith demands that we believe extraordinary claims based on insufficient evidence or no evidence whatsoever. If you truly are a religious person (as opposed to a spiritual person, there is a difference), you will have a lot of trouble coming to terms with or squaring your faith with science. How many Biblical claims have been disproved by science? A hundred, if not more? And how many scientific claims have been disproved by the Bible? Zero.

Moreover, religious faith is what often stops scientific progress from happening. Throughout human scientific history, the greatest scientists of our time reached a point in their research where they couldn't figure it out and concluded "here must be God" and they stopped. Newton is famous for this. He invented calculus, formed the Theory of Gravity, Laws of Motion, etc., but when he couldn't explain a certain planetary phenomena he said this is now the territory of God and stopped. It wasn't until 200 years later that Laplace solved what Newton thought was the work only of God... 200 years. He didn't need to invoke God- he simply solved the problem. And this happens even today- science doesn't have an answer, so we say it must be God. But if history has taught us anything, we will eventually figure it out.
 
13729836:onenerdykid said:
(I'm not directing all of this at you, just some general points)

It's really weird, but that's what the evidence suggests... The evidence suggests that Evolution is a fact (hence why it is a scientific theory, not a mere hypothesis), that there was a Big Bang, Dark Matter/Dark Energy, Quantum Theory, etc. These aren't just fancy ideas that sound good- there is strong evidence that leads us to these conclusions. To deny something when there is evidence & repeatable, testable experiments for it, is idiotic. If there was evidence for the existence of God(s), by all means we should follow it. But, there is no such evidence- just a bunch of conflicting, unjustified beliefs founded on faith and hearsay.

We should believe things when there is sufficient evidence supporting it. And it becomes foolish to believe things when there is insufficient evidence to support it. No professional scientist pursues something because of faith, they

pursue something because there is evidence suggesting they should. Even the most religious scientist knows this- their career as a scientist would end immediately if they started making claims they couldn't back up with evidence. Religion, on the other hand, claims the opposite- faith is ultimately what you need and it trumps reason & fact. Moreover, you often need to suspend the laws of nature to make room for faith and many claims in the Bible (and other religious texts). Religious faith demands that we believe extraordinary claims based on insufficient evidence or no evidence whatsoever. If you truly are a religious person (as opposed to a spiritual person, there is a difference), you will have a lot of trouble coming to terms with or squaring your faith with science. How many Biblical claims have been disproved by science? A hundred, if not more? And how many scientific claims have been disproved by the Bible? Zero.

Moreover, religious faith is what often stops scientific progress from happening. Throughout human scientific history, the greatest scientists of our time reached a point in their research where they couldn't figure it out and concluded "here must be God" and they stopped. Newton is famous for this. He invented calculus, formed the Theory of Gravity, Laws of Motion, etc., but when he couldn't explain a certain planetary phenomena he said this is now the territory of God and stopped. It wasn't until 200 years later that Laplace solved what Newton thought was the work only of God... 200 years. He didn't need to invoke God- he simply solved the problem. And this happens even today- science doesn't have an answer, so we say it must be God. But if history has taught us anything, we will eventually figure it out.
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Thanks for writing this.

I'm not sure if I said this in a previous post, but I do in fact believe in evolution, just not evolution as a whole. I believe that we evolved, I'm just a little hesitant on everything as a whole, if that makes sense.

And yes I do realize what theories are, but just because they have a lot of evidence and aren't proven doesn't mean that I have to believe everything as a whole.
 
God is not synonymous with religion. If you think God is real and you think science is real then so what? That just means God created science.
 
13729937:.lencon said:
Thanks for writing this.

I'm not sure if I said this in a previous post, but I do in fact believe in evolution, just not evolution as a whole. I believe that we evolved, I'm just a little hesitant on everything as a whole, if that makes sense.

And yes I do realize what theories are, but just because they have a lot of evidence and aren't proven doesn't mean that I have to believe everything as a whole.
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Just remember that evolution happens very very slowly. The earth is 4.543 billion years old. If we condensed the earths life span into just a year, humans wouldn't have evolved until 11:02pm, and the industrial revolution would have happened 2 seconds before the new year. Watch this video if you're still confused on evolution, it's a big and scary concept and it's okay to be confused by it.

 
13730122:S.J.W said:
Just remember that evolution happens very very slowly. The earth is 4.543 billion years old. If we condensed the earths life span into just a year, humans wouldn't have evolved until 11:02pm, and the industrial revolution would have happened 2 seconds before the new year. Watch this video if you're still confused on evolution, it's a big and scary concept and it's okay to be confused by it.

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You think you're hot shit, don't you?
 
13730169:.lencon said:
You think you're hot shit, don't you?
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Fuck alright, sorry for trying to educate you a little bit. Enjoy your willfully ignorant blackhole you live in then...
 
13730186:S.J.W said:
Fuck alright, sorry for trying to educate you a little bit. Enjoy your willfully ignorant blackhole you live in then...
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Hahahahahahah you are so amusing.

Oh and to educate you, its not possible to live in a black hole
 
13730196:.lencon said:
Hahahahahahah you are so amusing.

Oh and to educate you, its not possible to live in a black hole
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Just for one second imagine that it's not me and someone else is posting and trying to put things into perspective? Still going to ignore them? Probably not.
 
13730236:S.J.W said:
Just for one second imagine that it's not me and someone else is posting and trying to put things into perspective? Still going to ignore them? Probably not.
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I'm not ignoring them. If I ignored them I wouldn't be quoting you.

You're crazy m9
 
13729983:TheBigApple said:
God made science, so I don't see what the debate is.
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Claims require proof. Your claim that "God made science" is lacking proof. That's part of what the debate is.

Without proof, any claim would therefore be valid. So, if I say a unicorn made science, that is equally as valid as your claim.
 
So you needed to do in depth research to figure out that there isn't a magical dude in the sky that you have to believe in to not get burned in eternal fire in some dante's inferno type of sauna for eternity?

Jesus loves you. You can can kill a bunch of people and then before you die be like "Yo jesus I'm down with you bru" and go to heaven, but if you're a nice person and work for good charities all your life but don't believe in fairy tales jesus will be like "I never knew you" and throw you into hell.

That seems pretty sensible IMO.

That said apparently I am Jesus. Or so all these Africans seem to think. In Kenya the other day I kept feeling people bumping into me and realized all these kids are taking pictures next to me. I was like fuck it, you can take pics. And then ended up taking pictures for a while with all these peoples. IT was at a shitty animal park, and was def the highlight of that place.

So yeah, I am JEsus, What now

/peace bitch
 
13730323:onenerdykid said:
Claims require proof. Your claim that "God made science" is lacking proof. That's part of what the debate is.

Without proof, any claim would therefore be valid. So, if I say a unicorn made science, that is equally as valid as your claim.
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Definitely not as valid. By definition God is all powerful etc. and by definition if he exists he created everything. A unicorn is not all powerful etc. so even if a unicorn existed it is unreasonable to think that the unicorn created anything. Not trying to be that annoying dude, just have to clear that up
 
13729572:milk_man said:
I won't tell you what to believe or not believe. I just want this for threads. But...remember what Descartes said--your senses can be very deceptive. You use your senses to determine how reasonable something is, and that can be deceptive. If you live your life based solely on reason you will be single and probably quite crazy...reason is not a solid rock to base your life on. You can be a reasonable person and believe supposedly "unreasonable" things. You will probably get a lot of hate and ridicule, but the people who are hated and ridiculed a lot of times have many valid beliefs.
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The only person that sounds crazy here is you
 
13730376:milk_man said:
Definitely not as valid. By definition God is all powerful etc. and by definition if he exists he created everything. A unicorn is not all powerful etc. so even if a unicorn existed it is unreasonable to think that the unicorn created anything. Not trying to be that annoying dude, just have to clear that up
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And who gave that definition of God? Men. Therefore it has 0 validity.
 
13730384:Charlie_Kelly said:
And who gave that definition of God? Men. Therefore it has 0 validity.
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It is commonly agreed on across the entire human race that the definition of God is an all powerful being. If definitions that are made by humans have zero validity then nothing has validity including our conversation..
 
13730396:milk_man said:
It is commonly agreed on across the entire human race that the definition of God is an all powerful being. If definitions that are made by humans have zero validity then nothing has validity including our conversation..
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That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the definition itself was manufactured with no proof what so ever, aka it was made up with no factual backing, therefore it is not valid.
 
13730376:milk_man said:
Definitely not as valid. By definition God is all powerful etc. and by definition if he exists he created everything. A unicorn is not all powerful etc. so even if a unicorn existed it is unreasonable to think that the unicorn created anything. Not trying to be that annoying dude, just have to clear that up
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by definition? yeah defined by people who made that shit up and force fed it to everyone for 2000 years.

you cleared up nothing.
 
13730400:Charlie_Kelly said:
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the definition itself was manufactured with no proof what so ever, aka it was made up with no factual backing, therefore it is not valid.
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We are talking about a hypothetical situation involving a being that cannot be proven. Your argument is circling around the fact that we cannot prove there is a God. What I'm saying is humanity has agreed on some characteristics of God, should he exist. My point was that a unicorn creating science does not have the same validity as God creating science
 
13730396:milk_man said:
It is commonly agreed on across the entire human race that the definition of God is an all powerful being. If definitions that are made by humans have zero validity then nothing has validity including our conversation..
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So God created all these rules which if we break we're going straight to hell? Why didn't got just create humans who didn't sin? At some point in his creation he would have to been like fuck well just for lols let's make a small percentage of them like their own sex. Fucking lol.
 
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