Religion, a debate.

You've just horribly contradicted yourself dude...

How is evolution not the changing of a species to suit it's environment? And why would an already living species change if it wasn't to better suit it's environment. Your last statement renders the need for evolution as useless. If a giraffe's neck grows longer, how is that not a mutation that is passed on?

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

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because adaptation would be if an already living and exsisting giraffe like stretched his neck out to reach the leaves. Evolution would be if a mutation(by chance, having nothiong to do with the environment) occured that caused a girrafe to be born with a longer neck and then he passd the mutated genes on so more giraffes had longer necks and the one with shorter necks died, why dont you get it? same thing with the moths, a CHANCE mutation in the genes of a moth caused one to be black, then the black one banged the regular one and more black ones were produced and so on and so on. because the black ones were better suited for the environment they lived, and the regular ones died. its like one of the most famous studies ever conducted that backs up evolution. ill find an article if you dont believe me.

peace,paul

'handin out flyers is jus fuckin ridiculous...when you give somebody a flyer its like...say man...why dont you go throw this out for me?'

-mitch hedburg

'is mick nick and mike wilson the same people?'

-//d-lite//

 
man the moth example is the farthest thing from evolution...a simple study of punnett squares will prove this...some dark and light moths existed, but before the smoke most of the light survived, but a few dark did as well, so their genes could be passed on also. when their surroundings turned dark, the dark moths of the population began to be able to produce more, and since they blended in well, they were not preyed on as much by predators. this was not the case for the light moths however, and most were killed off by predators. only a small percentage were able to survive. and even if there were no dark moths in the first place, there could have been light moths carrying the dark moth gene. nowhere in this example does anything prove evolution. if anything, it proves that the moth was designed very well.

proud owner of 'team ramrod', the best NS hockey pool team ever.
 
tim, are you acknowledging the concepts of both adaptation as well as evolution? not specifically applied to anything that has been discussed, but simply the signifier -> evolution. if so, in accepting that there is the evolutionary theory, aren't you also accepting that as a theory, evolution is possible? of course, we don't know for sure if it is anything more than a theory.. but doesn't simply acknowledging the fact that a theory exists give rise to its popularity and popular acceptance? if you were truly opposed to evolution, wouldn't it make sense to negate evolutionary speak as nothing more than 'god's will'?

 
no lanks because in recent dna studies of the same moths none of them carried the gene for black moths.

'handin out flyers is jus fuckin ridiculous...when you give somebody a flyer its like...say man...why dont you go throw this out for me?'

-mitch hedburg

'is mick nick and mike wilson the same people?'

-//d-lite//

 
i heard the very opposite snonasty

proud owner of 'team ramrod', the best NS hockey pool team ever.
 
i gotta find an article, it was in my bio textbook like 4 years ago and obviously i dont have that anymore. ill look around and post up a link. i could be mistaken but im pretty sure all of what i have said is accurate.

peace,paul

'handin out flyers is jus fuckin ridiculous...when you give somebody a flyer its like...say man...why dont you go throw this out for me?'

-mitch hedburg

'is mick nick and mike wilson the same people?'

-//d-lite//

 
Snostay, if a random genetic mutation happened then it's not a good thing is it. It's just that, a mutation. Mutations die out, always. A random genetic mutation such as a giraffe's neck getting longer isn't going to be carried on through generations of giraffes. For all giraffes to get longer necks, then all the giraffe families in the world would have to have the same genetic mutation for it to carry on down the line. That quite simply doesn't happen.

And sweetcoz, yeah, I am acknowledging adaptation, I'm sure it happens, like moths changing colour, trees do it all the time and very very quickly but evolution? no.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

#Cut the Jibba Jabba Crazy Fools! Start Skiing!#

*Be greatful, everyday, for snow, mountains, gravity and skiing*

@Talent Is Important, But Image Is God!@

%Jesus Is My Homeboy%
 
since when does a mutation have to be bad. all a mutation is, is an abnormality in the linking of the dna from the male and female to create that double helix we are all familiar with, something happens thats not supposed to happen. this can produce bad results, like mentaly retarted people, or good results, none of which i can think of for humans cuz none have happenned yet, humans are pretty maxed out. and all it takes is one. say one giraffe was born with a longer neck, when he goes and bangs another giraffe the offspring of that giraffe may not nessescarily(sp?) have a longer neck, but he still carries the gene for it. so mabye that gifarres offspring will have a longer neck and it gets passed on from generation to generation. as soon as it happens once thats all it takes for it to be around forever as long as the gene carrying creatures reproduce. this is why evolution is an extremely slow process.

peace,paul

'handin out flyers is jus fuckin ridiculous...when you give somebody a flyer its like...say man...why dont you go throw this out for me?'

-mitch hedburg

'is mick nick and mike wilson the same people?'

-//d-lite//

 
by the way snonasty i read all about that example in a gr. 12 biology textbook, its brand new this year.

proud owner of 'team ramrod', the best NS hockey pool team ever.
 
and how can you think of no good mutations of humans AND at the same time say that we are made entirely from mutations

proud owner of 'team ramrod', the best NS hockey pool team ever.
 
im saying in recent times lanks, not the entire history of humans. some very obvious beneficial mutations would be an upright stance which freed up our arms more, and of course the oposable(sp?) thumb which is the basis for human success. sorry if i kinda contradicted myself there i wasn't very clear.

peace,paul

'handin out flyers is jus fuckin ridiculous...when you give somebody a flyer its like...say man...why dont you go throw this out for me?'

-mitch hedburg

'is mick nick and mike wilson the same people?'

-//d-lite//

 
funny example... humans have no need for wisdom teeth. a large handful of people are now being born without them? i think in 20ish years or so from now, humans will no longer be born with them. funny.

first to figure out what lathgwanh means.

ns ogre crew
 
but caden that is the opposite of evolution if we have things we dont need...if were to have evolved something according to the evolution theory, it would have to have been something beneficial, not vestigial. and we dont need wisdom teeth, but we still have a use for them, just like we dont need legs but we have a use for them.

proud owner of 'team ramrod', the best NS hockey pool team ever.
 
the evolution of humans has basically come to a dead end because theres no more competition with other creatures, we are out on top of the food chain and any mutations that would occur would most likely be bad. the only beneficial mutations would be immunity to certain diseases and conditions like cancer for example. and lanks typing this just made me think of recent evolution in humans. im sure were all familiar with the black death right? well the black deather ended because people were born who were immune to it so they survived to pass the gene for immunity on to others. the people who were immune increased while the people who werent immune decreased and eventually all the people who werent immune died off. now probabaly 99.999 percent of the earths population today is immune to the strain of virus that caused the black death because of this.

peace,paul

'handin out flyers is jus fuckin ridiculous...when you give somebody a flyer its like...say man...why dont you go throw this out for me?'

-mitch hedburg

'is mick nick and mike wilson the same people?'

-//d-lite//

 
but that gene which enabled humans to beat the black death was already in our gene pool even before and throughout the black death. of course it killed off people who didnt possess that gene but that gene existed. now you say most possess it, but now that 99.9% of people have it or whatever, it doesnt mean that we have EVOLVED. we havent come any further than those times, its just that most people possess a different gene.

and i can think of many beneficial mutations that i wouldnt mind, like a tail could come in handy, wings could as well, yada yada.

proud owner of 'team ramrod', the best NS hockey pool team ever.
 
Thats just natural selection, The bubonic plague just killed off the epopl with thatout that gene, keeping the ones with it alive and breeding

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yeah i guees you guys are right, i was thinkin that because more people died in the beggining of the black death but thats only cuz there were more people to be killed. bad example, sorry.

peace,paul

'handin out flyers is jus fuckin ridiculous...when you give somebody a flyer its like...say man...why dont you go throw this out for me?'

-mitch hedburg

'is mick nick and mike wilson the same people?'

-//d-lite//

 
Tim you acknowledge DNA and genetics? because un;ess I'm mistaken up until a couple decades or so ago, you fanatics didn't believe that was real...why'd you all change your minds again?

Thank you for reading my post,

have a nice day :)

***the thing I like about highschool girls, is I keep getting older but they stay the same age!

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***stuhalverson: slickjamesjik, your signature is to damn long!!! eliminate the spaces or something.

****conceptkid: nah, i think this forum sux becuase of slickjames and his completely gay sig. shorten it up and people might start coming back. I think montana is pretty sick for skiing, maybe not in missoula but in whitefish for sure. Im gonna stick with montana skiing and no waiting in lines at lifts

***linechick1260: james after reading your signature i forgot what the post was about....that means its too long...

Big-L: dude. you have to shorten your sig. man, like that is rediculous

Don't hate me because of my signature!
 
What the fuck are you talking about?? Until a few decades ago NO ONE knew about genetics and DNA, damn you're a moron, this conversatio is getting pretty good except for the shit that you post, fuck off.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

#Cut the Jibba Jabba Crazy Fools! Start Skiing!#

*Be greatful, everyday, for snow, mountains, gravity and skiing*

@Talent Is Important, But Image Is God!@

%Jesus Is My Homeboy%
 
actually genetics was discovered more then 100 years ago, by a scientist who studied the similarities in the generations of fruit flies. Chromosomes were discovered in the 40's-50's.

LOOK AT WHERE HER FUCKING MOUTH IS-my favourite pun of all time

Proud member of the official NS Ogre team, and NS communist party and OTC

***NEWSCHOOL UNDERGROUND***
 
but actuall DNA wasnt discovered until the late 80's. we knew it was there but it was useless to us until technology improved.

'handin out flyers is jus fuckin ridiculous...when you give somebody a flyer its like...say man...why dont you go throw this out for me?'

-mitch hedburg

'is mick nick and mike wilson the same people?'

-//d-lite//

 
however, it was theorized to be a double helix in te 1960's, it was proven in the 80's

LOOK AT WHERE HER FUCKING MOUTH IS-my favourite pun of all time

Proud member of the official NS Ogre team, and NS communist party and OTC

***NEWSCHOOL UNDERGROUND***
 
groovy

'handin out flyers is jus fuckin ridiculous...when you give somebody a flyer its like...say man...why dont you go throw this out for me?'

-mitch hedburg

'is mick nick and mike wilson the same people?'

-//d-lite//

 
i think this thread is finnaly meloing out

'handin out flyers is jus fuckin ridiculous...when you give somebody a flyer its like...say man...why dont you go throw this out for me?'

-mitch hedburg

'is mick nick and mike wilson the same people?'

-//d-lite//

 
Exactly Petek, a few decades, be it 5 or 10, it's still bugger all.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

#Cut the Jibba Jabba Crazy Fools! Start Skiing!#

*Be greatful, everyday, for snow, mountains, gravity and skiing*

@Talent Is Important, But Image Is God!@

%Jesus Is My Homeboy%
 
mendelian genetics was discovered like 100 years ago and he used thousands of pea plants, dna was theorized in the 50's (watson and crick), and later proven.

proud owner of 'team ramrod', the best NS hockey pool team ever.
 
Phattim unfortunately you are the ignoramus in this conversation...I was refering to the theorized genetics, they believed it was totally preposterous that there were such things as chromosomes and DNA it took them only a few years after it was proven to finally warm up to the idea and pretend like nothing was wrong. and late 80s was closer to two decades or so, than five years ago, so shut YOUR damn mouth unless you have a valid argument.

It is also curious how Galileo and Copernicus were persecuted so much by the religious folk back in there day, because the monotheistic european religion (jewish, christian, catholic...they're all the same basically) believed that the earth was either the center of the universe or that there was nothing beyond the earth. Apparently that was how they 'interpreted' their bible. Now they look like idiots for not believing something so elementary...imagine how the people of tomorrow will view the people today who believe in god...I mean once all religions are finally eradicated...I wonder.

Thank you for reading my post,

have a nice day :)

***the thing I like about highschool girls, is I keep getting older but they stay the same age!

****I don't just huck, I suck

***Actually my name isn't even James!

****Hugs not drugs!

***can't we all just get along?

****I hate hate

***visit my crappy website...OR ELSE!

****I flunked out of school cause I'm hardcore!

***the REAL creator of the NS.com cousin exchange program!

****How are you gonna learn to party in school, MOM!

***Official whistle toting deputy ski patrol.

****Andrew and I (standing in liftline) : 'DILLHOLE!'

guy up front (while raising hand): right here!

***Don't drop your pocket!

****I'd like to give a special thanks to gsqueen, who named her thread after me...my 1st very own thread

***stuhalverson: slickjamesjik, your signature is to damn long!!! eliminate the spaces or something.

****conceptkid: nah, i think this forum sux becuase of slickjames and his completely gay sig. shorten it up and people might start coming back. I think montana is pretty sick for skiing, maybe not in missoula but in whitefish for sure. Im gonna stick with montana skiing and no waiting in lines at lifts

***linechick1260: james after reading your signature i forgot what the post was about....that means its too long...

Big-L: dude. you have to shorten your sig. man, like that is rediculous

Don't hate me because of my signature!
 
wow...a meaningful thread on NS...damn

heres what i say...i dont exactly BUY the entire bible deal, but im definately NOT with science saying we just HAPPENED...way too many coincidences for me to accept that we just appeared outve the universe...theres SOMETHING more all knowing or powerful then us, just not sure who that is...my guess

Mr. T or Erik Estrada

 
slickjames took you a while to think of that reply i see, and the thing is, christianity never interpreted the earth being flat, or the earth being the centre of the universe, or the earth as being the only thing in the universe at all. there are TONS of bible verses that would prove that wrong in a second. all that was actually just a rumor in 19th century USA that spread around. and dont tell me otherwise, you werent there to know anyways so your opinion is only as valid as mine. and can you see every religion being eradicated, ever...no, not at all, will never happen.

proud owner of 'team ramrod', the best NS hockey pool team ever.
 
I'm not sure if your saying it took me too long to reply or if I actually took time to think about it, but I'll end that point there.

My personal belief is that science (physics etc.) are the only proven and possible thing in this universe. And as I have been accused of being stubborn on numerous occassions, I'm shifting the finger towards the religious community and their stubborness to stick to the bible. I feel that religion is holding science back, and from science we gain knowledge, understanding and further more progression as a species and world.

Thank you for reading my post,

have a nice day :)

***the thing I like about highschool girls, is I keep getting older but they stay the same age!

****I don't just huck, I suck

***Actually my name isn't even James!

****Hugs not drugs!

***can't we all just get along?

****I hate hate

***visit my crappy website...OR ELSE!

****I flunked out of school cause I'm hardcore!

***the REAL creator of the NS.com cousin exchange program!

****How are you gonna learn to party in school, MOM!

***Official whistle toting deputy ski patrol.

****Andrew and I (standing in liftline) : 'DILLHOLE!'

guy up front (while raising hand): right here!

***Don't drop your pocket!

****I'd like to give a special thanks to gsqueen, who named her thread after me...my 1st very own thread

***stuhalverson: slickjamesjik, your signature is to damn long!!! eliminate the spaces or something.

****conceptkid: nah, i think this forum sux becuase of slickjames and his completely gay sig. shorten it up and people might start coming back. I think montana is pretty sick for skiing, maybe not in missoula but in whitefish for sure. Im gonna stick with montana skiing and no waiting in lines at lifts

***linechick1260: james after reading your signature i forgot what the post was about....that means its too long...

Big-L: dude. you have to shorten your sig. man, like that is rediculous

Don't hate me because of my signature!
 
religion is holding science back huh... i still dont beleive you have ever provided a satisfactory answer as to how this existance ever came into being if not by a supreme power... i wrote out what i thought to be a really well thought out statement back on the first or second page of this, or maybe it was back on the jesus thread. i dont think i have to reiderate too many times the points that

a) science is a conglomeration of theories that are proven and disproven on a regular basis. i would venture to say perhaps on a daily basis. i for one would not like to have to entrust all i know about life to an ever changing source of information... one day its one thing the next day its another. i also provided a good example of this back in my previous post if you want one.

and point b) that science and religion are not by any means mutually exclusive. if you say that they are, then you are automaticaly counting out a vast number of possibilities and a vast source of knowledge, that for the most part is a stable as anything scince dredges up. to eliminate possible variables from the equasions of life is downright foolish, and not a thing that a good scientist would do. im sure you can see that. what i am saying in the end is that neither one has to be wrong in order for the other to be right. again, to promote that idea is absolutley doltish. so slick, (or the artist formerly known as slick) please stop coming on here with your foolish statments. im sure that we all can agree that this board has its share of tomfoolery and shenanigans as far as off the cuff statements are concerned, and im glad you take an interest in finding abosolute truth through whatever means you do, just acknowledge that science is not foolproof, nor would any upstanding scientist claim it to be.

-karma police arrest this girl. her hitler haircut is making me feel ill, and we have crashed her party-
 
there is no absolute truth. why are we as humans so selfish to think that there is an absolute truth for us, but not for any other species?? who else is down with postmodern theory?

 
there really isnt much proof for science or religion as far as creation is concerened

-Ryan

'oh hes from canada we will give him a break on spelling'- dspin7x

'i is frum cehnehdeh tu, feck off.'- cj
 
IM not really sure if this staement is right (to me it sounds right but im sure there will be lots of contradiction so here we go). In cristianity (and im sure most other religions) its states two things (which are relavent to my statement) 1) god created life/ the world 2) god is perfect. Now it seems kind of impossible for something imperfect like us to come out of something perfect, doesnt it?? (hence that wud make god imperfect) wat do u think??

 
god gave us a mind of our own and free will, and we became somewhat sinful is the thing

-Ryan

'oh hes from canada we will give him a break on spelling'- dspin7x

'i is frum cehnehdeh tu, feck off.'- cj
 
k i realize that but lets take it from a different angle, the fact that we are imperfect meens that we had the potential to be imperfect rite from humanities beggining. so wen we were created we were already imperfect. (hence the decision to choose between rite and rong is an imperfection.) and god obviously has that choice soo...

 
we were created perfect, but we were given free will and choice. adam and eve destroyed our perfection when they ate off teh tree that God told them not to eat off of. by falling into the hands of temptation, they caused future genereations of human beings to be born imperfect. when god created adam and eve, they were didn't have a care in teh world adn were shameless, but after they ate off the tree, they were full of shame adn God punished them. he said that from that point on eve and all women would experience pain in childbirth and that mankind(although originally directed toward adam)would have to work in order to survive.

********************

My imaginary friend thinks you have serious mental problems.

'Life is a stage on which everyone contributes a verse...what will your verse be?' -Robin Williams in 'The Dead Poets Society'

Why do all superheroes wear spandex?

If you say something is indescribable, isn't that describing it?
 
So if Adam and Eve didn't know difference between right and wrong at the beginning, how could they disobey God, and ate that apple? How could perfect creature do something wrong and become imperfect?

 
they did know the difference, god told them not to eat the fruit, they disobeyed...they knew better.

proud owner of 'team ramrod', the best NS hockey pool team ever.
 
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