Religion, a debate.

so the bible was written when jesus was alive and never before or after that?

'handin out flyers is jus fuckin ridiculous...when you give somebody a flyer its like...say man...why dont you go throw this out for me?'

-mitch hedburg
 
the old testament was before, the new one after.

'what can we do to stop this war?'

'Leagalize PORN'

'Its allready legal'

'Not the kind i like'

Proud member of the official NS Ogre team, and NS communist party and OTC

***NEWSCHOOL UNDERGROUND***
 
i have no clue what to beleive from the bible just becuase you know that adam and eve cannot possibly be true because we know about evelution, so the one question to ask is 'how much of it is true?' also i am episcipalian but i beleive in hindu, shinto and budhist thoughts. i guess i am not really a religios person but i think that religions have tons of ideas, i think that when you are little and going to church is a bad idea becuase you are more gullible and may beleive anything that is told to you. I remember when i was 6 my friend told me that her dad didn't think that god created the earth. I thought he was crazy and couldn't think of the earth being created by anything but god. Now that i'm older i don't know if he did or he didn't, i am kinda going off topic, sorry

*~cRazY cAt*~
 
those miracles you said happened at the time jesus was alive; he preformed them.

proud owner of 'team ramrod', the best NS hockey pool team ever.
 
i dont really worry about stuff like this,its too damn complicated at times with everyone believing different things,if there wasnt soo many different aspects and if there was one thing that everyone could believe in that proved jesus' existence,it would be so much easier

President of the OTC!

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'ive been shavin since i was in 5th grade, yea the girls made fun of me then, but now they grovel at my feet just to pet me' - Alex aka Ds91260

**NEWSCHOOL UNDERGROUND**
 
lanks, not all of the miracles were performed by jesus...

'what can we do to stop this war?'

'Leagalize PORN'

'Its allready legal'

'Not the kind i like'

Proud member of the official NS Ogre team, and NS communist party and OTC

***NEWSCHOOL UNDERGROUND***
 
not even close to 1/2 of the miracles were performed by jesus.

'what can we do to stop this war?'

'Leagalize PORN'

'Its allready legal'

'Not the kind i like'

Proud member of the official NS Ogre team, and NS communist party and OTC

***NEWSCHOOL UNDERGROUND***
 
i think when jesus died on the cross he gave a bit of him self to all of us, so in away we could all perform miracles, but if something great happens in your life and you worked really hard at it, don't give all your credit to jesus give it to yourself

*~cRazY cAt*~
 
to anybody that read the old testament, i think it basically showed the wrath of god, before christ. The new testament showed what life is like being saved, full of miracles, and gods love.

'what can we do to stop this war?'

'Leagalize PORN'

'Its allready legal'

'Not the kind i like'

Proud member of the official NS Ogre team, and NS communist party and OTC

***NEWSCHOOL UNDERGROUND***
 
i think that the bible should not be followed too literally, people like live and die by what the bible says in its litteral meaning, if your gonna read the bible or any religious transcript you have to read between the lines cuz its all metaphors, all of it. some of the shit in the bible is just fuckin ridiculous and could never happen, but look deeper into it and beneath the literal meanings of the words there is something real, and something coherent the can be related directly to what we know as facts(evolution). it all relates to evolution, we knew about evolution way back. it was recorded in the form of stories in all these scripts and now ignorant people think this shit really happenned, its so stupid. if you look at the similarities between many religious scipts there are MAJOR similarities, now how could cultures some 5000 miles apart have the same basic stories? well if youve read the above then im sure you can figure that one out. the only problem with my theory is where did the first atom come from, and how was the universe created, everybody says the big bang, well shit it makes sense except where did all the matter that comprised the dense ball come from before it exploded into the universe huh? thats the question the crumbels any logical thought and it annoys the shit outta me, i better find out when i die.

peace,paul

'handin out flyers is jus fuckin ridiculous...when you give somebody a flyer its like...say man...why dont you go throw this out for me?'

-mitch hedburg
 
Personally, I think it is easier to think a god made the matter, which made the atom, so on and so on. But I also think, that space and time might be something too complicated for the human mind to comprehend. I am not really sure what I believe, but the question about how space, time and religion all relate has always intrested me.

__________________________

Andrew

***NEWSCHOOL UNDERGROUND***
 
very reform. Adressing other issues. The alignment of earth so perfectly is mathematically and scientifically logical. Out of all the possibilities of this infinite universe, and the billions of galaxies and planets etc within them, there is bound to be a few that line up perfectly. I dont understand your point.

-Mikee LiFsHitZ-

I can't wait for NS radio!
 
which brings me to my next point mikeE does anybody believe of life on other planets in other galaxies? i think so, i think there has to be somewhere if the universe is as big as we consider it to be. do i think that we have ever been visited by life on other planets, no definitly not its all a bunch or horse poop. like you said mikeE out of all the billions of stars and planets and galaxies there has to be a few that provide optimal life conditions. but thats just life as we know it. for all we know there could be a planet closer to its sun compared to us. it could be an avg. temp of like 200 degrees F but life on that planet developed differently then life here so i dont think that there are humans or lifeforms even remotely similar to us anywhere else in the universe.

peace,paul

'handin out flyers is jus fuckin ridiculous...when you give somebody a flyer its like...say man...why dont you go throw this out for me?'

-mitch hedburg
 
Humans are based on a beggining to end scenario.

We were created on x date, and will die on x date. We look for the beginning and the end.

Something infinite - that has always been and will always be is difficult for our minds to comprehend. I don't understand it, and I don't think we are expected to. This is where faith comes in. You have to trust and believe.

But is it really so hard to believe that maybe there is something beyond us? Something that created us?

For those who say they need something of substance - something that they can see.

It takes faith to believe that there is no God. for you do not know and you can not see that truly there is no God. You are going by faith. It takes faith to believe in evolution - I have yet to see any evidence that evolution is true.

Where are the missing links? If we evolved, where are the fossils of the 'in-betweens'?

I'm curious, how can one logically say that there is no higher power and that we merely evolved from big bang? If we came from monkeys (or whatever) and they came from a small organism, and the world came from big bang, where did the atoms come from that started big bang?

Believe what you want. Everyone has their beliefs and I doubt arguing over an internet board is going to change any of them. So there is no point for anyone to preach in hopes that people will completely change. I am just voicing my opinions.

Eat. Sleep. Breathe. Ski.

 
Exactly, Im not try to argue, Im just curious to see other peopls beliefs and opinons, and gain new insight into the subject at hand.

-MiKeE LIfSHiTz-

**NEWSCHOOL UNDERGROUND**

 
Do Humans Have Free Will?

Alrighty, since God is everywhere according to numerous sources, then God is existent in the past, present and future. Thus him being in the future allows him to know what our decisions are...so he can see the outcome of our decisions and decide whether or not they're appropriate, so do humans have free will or not?

----------------------------------------

Life's not a bitch,

Life is a beautiful women,

you only call her a bitch

because she won't let you get that pussy...-Aesop Rock

See all y'all at Session 3 of High North
 
yeah and that leads us to a discussion on fate. Whcih at the moment Im too lazy to go into. And stop saying cool everywhere. Im getting aggrivated.

-MiKeE LIfSHiTz-

**NEWSCHOOL UNDERGROUND**

 
Yes, humans have free will. Just b/c God knows what will happen, doesn't mean he influences it. If God controlled our decisions, do you think shit would happen? God put us on earth and gave us the decision to decide whether to follow his ways or Satan's ways or even our own ways.

I guess you could say that I do believe in a sort of pre-destined fate becasue God already knows how we decide every decision we come across adn ultimately what will happen to us.

*******************

My imaginary friend thinks you have serious mental problems.

'Life is a stage on which everyone contributes a verse...what will your verse be?' -Robin Williams in 'The Dead Poets Society'

 
why does god want everybody to be ignorant? Isnt that a method of control? I say this because even not taking the bible literally, there are some huge issues on that issue.

'what can we do to stop this war?'

'Leagalize PORN'

'Its allready legal'

'Not the kind i like'

Proud member of the official NS Ogre team, and NS communist party and OTC

***NEWSCHOOL UNDERGROUND***
 
fate sucks, wouldnt you be really dissapointed if you knew you had no control over where you go in life? and you were just living your life blindly and making 'decisions' you were destined to make anyways so at a second look if your life was based on fate then you wouldnt be making any decisions. which is fucked up, so fuck fate in the ass(sorry for the anger and use of language, its not really appropriate in this thread but i just dont like the idea of fate.)

peace,paul

'handin out flyers is jus fuckin ridiculous...when you give somebody a flyer its like...say man...why dont you go throw this out for me?'

-mitch hedburg
 
One thing i like about fate, is that perhaps you are being set-up for some major role in history.

'what can we do to stop this war?'

'Leagalize PORN'

'Its allready legal'

'Not the kind i like'

Proud member of the official NS Ogre team, and NS communist party and OTC

***NEWSCHOOL UNDERGROUND***
 
Okay, you guys are missing one very very large part of this arguement.

CHOICE!!!!! - Of course humans have free will. God wants people to make their own decision, their own choice, whether they want to follow him or whether they do not want to follow him. If you could all see God and he revealed himself to each and everyone of us then there would be no choice to believe or not, you would have seen him, seen the proof so you'd have to believe, then there's be no decision to make. That's where faith comes into it. Because he wants you to make your own choice he doesn't come out and reveal himself, you either believe or you don't, simple as that.

And there is one major difference between Christianity and all other religions. Christianity is the only one that includes uncondifional love. No matter what you've done, no matter who you are, God will love you. All other religions involve earning a place in their version of heaven.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

#Cut the Jibba Jabba Crazy Fools! Start Skiing!#

*Be greatful, everyday, for snow, mountains, gravity and skiing*

@Talent Is Important, But Image Is God!@

%Jesus Is My Homeboy%
 
not really...

$$$$$$The South Will Rise Again$$$$$$

I killed your cat, you druggy bitch!! I thought it would bring closure to our relationship!!!- Boondock Saints

Lagwagon - you are a failure...
 
i disagree with your last apragraph,,, but i believe in your little choice thing...i think that it all comes down to what you want to believe, im a confirmed methodist, but as far as my religous beliefs go im like eastern philosophy jew

$$$$$$The South Will Rise Again$$$$$$

I killed your cat, you druggy bitch!! I thought it would bring closure to our relationship!!!- Boondock Saints

Lagwagon - you are a failure...
 
after reading the old testament part of the bible, then i must say god isnt so loving. Sacrificing your first born son, just to please ure god? That whole, an eye for an eye business? I must say 1 thing tho, almost all the christian fanatics that i talked to, havent even read past the first 10 pages of the old testament. And i also believe, as a spiritualist, that christianity is the easiest to follow religion, which is why i am so skeptic about it.

'what can we do to stop this war?'

'Leagalize PORN'

'Its allready legal'

'Not the kind i like'

Proud member of the official NS Ogre team, and NS communist party and OTC

***NEWSCHOOL UNDERGROUND***
 
i like to form my own beliefs...christianity is to much of the 'flock', and it tries to explain everything by gods doing

$$$$$$The South Will Rise Again$$$$$$

I killed your cat, you druggy bitch!! I thought it would bring closure to our relationship!!!- Boondock Saints

Lagwagon - you are a failure...
 
Wookie, what's wrong with my last paragraph above? It's completley true.

Petek have you even read the old testement? Yes, God is vengeful, jealous and destructive but it also spends probably more time talking of how loving he is. God destroyed whole cities that were full of sin and saved the faithful, he unleashed plagues and fires, administered the passover, he does demand respect and sacrifice, so what's your point? He's also gracious, forgiving, unconditionally loving and demands utmost respect, fair enough I say.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

#Cut the Jibba Jabba Crazy Fools! Start Skiing!#

*Be greatful, everyday, for snow, mountains, gravity and skiing*

@Talent Is Important, But Image Is God!@

%Jesus Is My Homeboy%
 
phattim is right

*******************

My imaginary friend thinks you have serious mental problems.

'Life is a stage on which everyone contributes a verse...what will your verse be?' -Robin Williams in 'The Dead Poets Society'

 
how is he right, he said he destroyed cities full of sinners...but he is forgiving...hmm can you say contradiction?

peace,paul

'handin out flyers is jus fuckin ridiculous...when you give somebody a flyer its like...say man...why dont you go throw this out for me?'

-mitch hedburg
 
well we can never really know if anything is true or not cause we weren't there

*~*SUPER BUNNY*~*

slow minded

olives taste good

how can a fat cow get all the way over the moon??
 
haha, and also how can you say its unconditional if he kills sinners?

-MiKeE LiFsHiTz-

***NEWSCHOOL UNDERGROUND***
 
back to the person who said that the theory of evolution discounts the biblical tale of adam and eve might want to think again. i have said in every post i have made on the religion threads that evolution and 'creationism' or the christian veiw of how the world came to be are by no means mutually exclusive. i came across this article from the bbc i beleive when i was researching topics for my anthropology class...

Tanzania, Ethiopia origin for humans

By Paul Rincon

New DNA evidence suggests 'African Eve', the 150,000-year-old female ancestor of every person on Earth, may have lived in Tanzania or Ethiopia.

Fossil remains of A. afarensis ('Lucy'), a possible human ancestor, were found at Hadar, Ethiopia

A genetic study has shown that the oldest known human DNA lineages are those of East Africans. The most ancient populations include the Sandawe, Burunge, Gorowaa and Datog people who live in Tanzania.

Researchers found a very high amount of genetic variation, or diversity, between the mitochondrial DNA of different individuals in these populations.

Mitochondrial DNA is passed down exclusively through the maternal line. The longer a population has existed, the more variation accumulates in its DNA lineages.

'They are showing really deep, old lineages with lots of diversity. They appear to be the oldest lineages identified in Africa to date,' said Dr Sarah Tishkoff, of the University of Maryland, US, who led the research.

Great resource

The so-called African Eve represents the ancestral mitochondrial genome that gave rise to all the different types seen in people today.

Several of the ethnic groups sampled in the study also live in countries surrounding Tanzania.

'It's entirely consistent with what we expected,' said Dr Spencer Wells, a geneticist and author. 'All the evidence is pointing to East Africa as the cradle of humanity.'

Dr Wells added that the data ties in well with archaeological evidence of a long occupation of East Africa by modern humans and hominids.

But Professor Ulf Gyllensten, a molecular biologist at the University of Uppsala, Sweden, was cautious about claims that the oldest DNA lineages were confined to East Africa.

'I wouldn't be surprised if Dr Tishkoff has found old lineages there, but I think we're just skimming the surface,' he said.

'Too little research has been done in Africa to get a clear picture. I don't know why, because it's clear there is a great resource of genetic diversity there,' added Professor Gyllensten.

'Click' language

Dr Tishkoff's team have collected mitochondrial DNA samples from 1,000 Tanzanians since they began their research in 2001.

Although the data comes from groups living in Tanzania, the Burunge and Gorowaa migrated to Tanzania from Ethiopia within the last 5,000 years.

SEARCH FOR HUMAN ORIGINS

The handaxe, which was discovered at an archaeological site in northern Spain, may represent the first funeral rite by human beings

Read more

Dr Tishkoff said Ethiopia was also a good candidate for the region where modern humans evolved.

One of the populations sampled in the study, the Sandawe, speak a 'click' language like that of Khoisan people from southern Africa.

The Khoisan were previously thought to possess the oldest DNA lineages, but those of the Sandawe are older. This suggests southern Khoisan originated in East Africa, according to Dr Tishkoff.

'That is surprising, because it has been presumed that the oldest populations were in the south,' said Professor Gyllensten. Some of the oldest modern human archaeological sites in Africa are in the south of the continent.

Dr Tishkoff said she planned to carry out further research to narrow down the most ancient East African lineages.

-karma police arrest this girl. her hitler haircut is making me feel ill, and we have crashed her party-
 
well adam and eve might have been the first evuluted human beings and maybe, god came down and gave them a language so that they could communicate, but i doubt he made eve out of one of adams body parts. when i was in fourth grade i had to make a timeline of every stage of evulution, i don't think that a liver could have made these things.

*~*SUPER BUNNY*~*

slow minded

olives taste good

how can a fat cow get all the way over the moon??
 
evuluted? not likley. evolved perhaps. when did modern human become what we are today? its up for debate really, but it was prbably somewhere in the neighborhood of 500k-200k y.a. no one can really say with an absolute certainty one way or another, which is really why this thread exists.

-karma police arrest this girl. her hitler haircut is making me feel ill, and we have crashed her party-
 
to me, evolution is a fairy tale...there is no meaning to it except to try and take out biblical creationism. there is an astounding amount of evidence that points to intelligent design and wipes away the whole argument of evolution, but people are afraid to make it public, just like they were when they found out the earth orbits around the sun, etc...and its funny, because in the states, the year they took the praying out, they brought evoultion into the schools, and that is the exact time when divorce rates, murder rates, suicide rates, and all other sorts of things skyrocketed. when you tell a kid they are nothing but an animal and therefore their actions dont have consequences, it will change their mindset for sure.

proud owner of 'team ramrod', the best NS hockey pool team ever.
 
you cant teach religion in the classrooms nowadays anyway. there is way too much religious diversity. and you couldnt separate kids by their religion cuz thats just prejudiced. so your theory falls dude, sorry. people who are real followers of any religion will go to church instead of having it forced on them in school. mabye all those bad things went up cuz america is filled with people who say they believe in something yet want nothing to do with it in the first place. in other words, we arent a very religious nation.

peace,paul

'handin out flyers is jus fuckin ridiculous...when you give somebody a flyer its like...say man...why dont you go throw this out for me?'

-mitch hedburg
 
id say differently if i were to take one look at your constitution

proud owner of 'team ramrod', the best NS hockey pool team ever.
 
why were the bible writings written in greek if adam and ever are african?

first to figure out what lathgwanh means.

ns ogre crew
 
the diversity wasnt the reason they took religion out of schools and brought evolution in, the states were not very diverse at all in the 60's

proud owner of 'team ramrod', the best NS hockey pool team ever.
 
yeah the founding fathers of your country knew what they were doing...they gave you peeps a republic, and now it has degraded into a democracy...and sorry to say, but the end result of democracy is always a totalitarian governmend...so all in all, youre screwed, and your leaders suck. no offense or anything.

proud owner of 'team ramrod', the best NS hockey pool team ever.
 
yah word lanks our countries government really blows and it sad to say but i hope bush gets assasinated cuz hes the dumbes prez we have had in years. clinton was the man and he got shit back on track. bush is just a war and money spending phool. and about your comment on our constituion, yeah that was written a really long time ago. i think the entire constituion should be thrown away and we should start with a clean slate cuz its too old fashioned. and how do you know democracies end in totalitarian states? not as a challenge to you but to educate myself better, can you think of any examples in history?

sorry for any spelling, i typed it fast.

peace,paul

'handin out flyers is jus fuckin ridiculous...when you give somebody a flyer its like...say man...why dont you go throw this out for me?'

-mitch hedburg
 
to the man asking about the biblical languages... the bible is a compilation of many different books, many of which chronicle events happening i different areas throughout the middle east. the bible was compiled and translated into greek by one of the 12 apostles, john i think. obviously the vast majority of the original biblical text was probably inscibed in hebrew and egyptian. when the books of moses were taking place, there was no way that the people of that area, and of that time could know, or write in greek. in about AD 300 the council at nice, italy compiled the bible further, and translated it to latin. they also tacked on the apocriphal writings, and so forth. this is also where the vast majority of officail church doctorine was voted on. so in short, even if life did start out in what is today known as east africa, it wasn until the post apostalic era that the greek and latin tranlations and compilations came to be.

-karma police arrest this girl. her hitler haircut is making me feel ill, and we have crashed her party-
 
i was talking w/ my rabbi, and he made a good point. He believes to not take the bible literally, such as christians do. he said that the 'stories' in the bible are myths (dont freak out, a myth means: a story aimed to explain something). He said that they are there to help us explain and understnd where are religions wants us to be aimed for. so instead of reading a story, like for example: the story of sodom and gomorroah, and thinking 'oh yeah, god destroyed a city because they r bad' look deep into the meaning and moral of the story, which is that god will always look for those who r good and try to reward them, and if not, will have the evil sinners punished. get it? i think this is somewhere along the lines of what .... snonasty? was saying... smart individual he is...

-Ryan
 
oh, so you're just talking about old testament here from east africa? well whatevz i don't have much knowledge of the area of evolution of humans and mammals, so i'm not going to try and sound like i know what im talking about(which unfortunatly most people do), but anyways as to the creation of the earth, you know that there is plenty of evidence against that, aye?

first to figure out what lathgwanh means.

ns ogre crew
 
Umm, actually there's none. How can you prove that it didn't happen? It's absolutley impossible to prove that the earth wasn't created. Likewise it's equally impossible to prove that it was. Oh and before you say 'Big Bang', realise that that didn't actually happen either, physcially implausible, too bad huh.

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~

#Cut the Jibba Jabba Crazy Fools! Start Skiing!#

*Be greatful, everyday, for snow, mountains, gravity and skiing*

@Talent Is Important, But Image Is God!@

%Jesus Is My Homeboy%
 
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