Gorilla.Steeze
Active member
I am an American because I was born here.
Reasons to be American
- Thread starter CAPSLOCK*
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Gorilla.Steeze
Active member
Why is this a good thing? You don't think that you could control yourself if these unhealthy products were cheaper? As far as I am concerned, the government shouldn't interfere with any personal decisions, especially decisions concerning what one puts in ones own body. If I want to be fat, then I have that right.
Proletariat.
Active member
Thats all fine and dandy if you have private healthcare. In Europe where universal healthcare exists a more unhealthy population means a bigger strain on the health care system. That is why the USA will never be able to have universal health coverage, it would be way to expensive due to the large and unhealthy population the US has
Gorilla.Steeze
Active member
That is why there shouldn't be universal healthcare in the first place. It eliminates the problem with having to pay for the unhealthy habits of others and emphasizes personal responsibility. If you don't have the right to make your own decisions, than what rights do you have? But to each their own.
Proletariat.
Active member
To each is own but almost all western countries have it and it works. I prefer a balance of a public and private system that can alleviate the strain on th public system by giving a private option.
Gorilla.Steeze
Active member
It works if everyone buys into the system. I just disagree with the principles that universal health care is founded on.
Jane6
Active member
this
I've always wanted to live in the US: living in a country where I've been exposed to the American culture 24/7 for my entire life, I don't find it that suprising that I easily could see myself living there.
But if something would happen to me or my family it would be such a shock for me to realise that I will not recieve any help without paying shitloads of money for it.
But hey this was a thread with reasons for being american so
- patriotism (we dont have that in Sweden. If you wave a flag and say that you're proud of being Swedish people immediately think you're a Nazi)
- cheap clothes
- TACO BELL
I've always wanted to live in the US: living in a country where I've been exposed to the American culture 24/7 for my entire life, I don't find it that suprising that I easily could see myself living there.
But if something would happen to me or my family it would be such a shock for me to realise that I will not recieve any help without paying shitloads of money for it.
But hey this was a thread with reasons for being american so
- patriotism (we dont have that in Sweden. If you wave a flag and say that you're proud of being Swedish people immediately think you're a Nazi)
- cheap clothes
- TACO BELL
Gorilla.Steeze
Active member
About what? Healthcare? I don't believe that it is a natural right like life, liberty and property. It is a service that the free market provides. Just like paying for some strangers mortgage, I feel that I should not be obliged to pay for their medical care. Don't paint me as the less caring, immoral individual that spites humanity for my own selfish desires, it is not like people in the US are turned away from hospitals if they are not covered.I feel that it is more immoral to simply take money away from people in the guise of taxes that they rightfully earned. Just because an individual is more productive and makes more money than others does not mean that they have a greater social responsibility imo.
Mike-O
Active member
After reading that, I don't think you really understand how universal healthcare works.
In these countries, it is not under any god damn guise, it is strictly proportionate on what goes on with the healtcare industry and the populous in general.
A shitload of lung cancer straightly linked to tobacco? Bans, limits and taxes on smoking.
A motherfucking truckload of dead people due to the reliefs on alcohol taxation? Well, call me Sally and fuck me in the ass, but that's a sore spot for raising one tax for me.
Universal healthcare means keeping yourself in mind, alongside your neighbour. It's something written in these countries backbone, that every single motherfucking person has the right for free (or almost) healthcare, be it a visit to the dentist, a scratch in your back, or a operation on your SCl-struck knee.
MOTHERFUCKER. Do you think we still live in a time where the natural right to "live" is a 50-50 depending on your caste, birthplace and psyche? FUCK. THAT. SHIT.
In these countries, it is not under any god damn guise, it is strictly proportionate on what goes on with the healtcare industry and the populous in general.
A shitload of lung cancer straightly linked to tobacco? Bans, limits and taxes on smoking.
A motherfucking truckload of dead people due to the reliefs on alcohol taxation? Well, call me Sally and fuck me in the ass, but that's a sore spot for raising one tax for me.
Universal healthcare means keeping yourself in mind, alongside your neighbour. It's something written in these countries backbone, that every single motherfucking person has the right for free (or almost) healthcare, be it a visit to the dentist, a scratch in your back, or a operation on your SCl-struck knee.
MOTHERFUCKER. Do you think we still live in a time where the natural right to "live" is a 50-50 depending on your caste, birthplace and psyche? FUCK. THAT. SHIT.
Gorilla.Steeze
Active member
LOL looks like I got under your skin a little bit. I clearly understand how universal healthcare works and I thought I explained myself coherently why I disagree with it.
Nothing dealing with taxes is proportionate and if you think this is the case then your are delusional. In the US, the bottom 50% of citizens don't even pay income tax. The only lifeline of universal healthcare is the forced charity by the upper class and middle classes, especially the former. Nothing is FREE (or almost) as you state. Someone has to front the bill.
You say how tobacco and alcohol are strains on the system, Why don't you just cut the bullshit and claim that they should be illegal? It is for everyones best interests, right? Do you have a fast food tax for people who eat McDonalds or a snack tax for someone who eats Snickers bars or chocolate cake? What about an XBox Live tax for fat asses who don't want to exercise and would rather play video games all day. There are so many things that are "bad" for you it is ridiculous to try and punish people through taxes for partaking in such activities.
For these reasons, you may be keeping your neighbor in mind, but your neighbor may not be keeping anyone else in mind. The system punishes those who maintain their own well being and the leeches thrive off of this ignorance.
If you really want lower healthcare prices, then the free market is your answer, not big government which is the most wasteful entity on the planet.
Nothing dealing with taxes is proportionate and if you think this is the case then your are delusional. In the US, the bottom 50% of citizens don't even pay income tax. The only lifeline of universal healthcare is the forced charity by the upper class and middle classes, especially the former. Nothing is FREE (or almost) as you state. Someone has to front the bill.
You say how tobacco and alcohol are strains on the system, Why don't you just cut the bullshit and claim that they should be illegal? It is for everyones best interests, right? Do you have a fast food tax for people who eat McDonalds or a snack tax for someone who eats Snickers bars or chocolate cake? What about an XBox Live tax for fat asses who don't want to exercise and would rather play video games all day. There are so many things that are "bad" for you it is ridiculous to try and punish people through taxes for partaking in such activities.
For these reasons, you may be keeping your neighbor in mind, but your neighbor may not be keeping anyone else in mind. The system punishes those who maintain their own well being and the leeches thrive off of this ignorance.
If you really want lower healthcare prices, then the free market is your answer, not big government which is the most wasteful entity on the planet.
HangThePope
Member
raping women in the streets never gets old..
Gorilla.Steeze
Active member
Nice comeback. Why don't you enlighten me o wise one? Or respond to anything I said?
Mike-O
Active member
I've tried to respond to Gorilla Steeze three times with my connectin failing out, so I hope this will go through.
BUT. Let me adress that I am NOT PATRIOTIC. I don't think Finland is the best country in the world. We and many others have much to learn. I want to live in place that sees my values straight.
- When talking about the taxation of narcotics, such as tobacco and alcohol, we can clearly talk about it on a national and universal level. We have scientific proof that both cause harm to to both mind and body when used in excess. As we live in a "universal" country, almost everything is taken into account when thinking about taxes, lifestyle, grants, freedoms etc. You can smoke just as much as you fucking want, but people who are against it won't like you, the healt care system won't like you and it will actually reward you for quitting (many programs giving high benefits for quitters).
As for alternative treatments, Jesus, we are at a loss, I admit. I'm pro-MJ when it comes to cancer treatments - my mother is right now suffering from brest cancer and the treatment... Oh how I wish I could just spark her a joint, but it is too still-rooted as a drug for her...and many people here...too many. Otherwise, Finland is one of the leading experts in new radiation therapies for cancer care.
- The government isn't choosing shit. No matter what you're suffering from, you get treatment for it, and it's world class, believe me. If a doctor doesn't think he's good enough, you're sent to one of the major hospitals for superior care.
- How is it free? Truly, it is not 100% free. If you go to the doctor's for care, it is €40/year. Maximum. That's it. For that sum you can go to the doctor's every fricking day if you feel like it, being a hypocondriac or whatever.
Operation in a hospital? You pay for the days you stay there. Usually around €2 per day. Not too shabby.
- The tax rate. Yes, if you make over €7000/month, your tax rate may seem menacing when taking the municipal tax into account, but it's definitely not bad as the price of living here is so cheap. Compare it to Norway where the taxation is higher, yet the prices steeper...
- As for the entitlement, yes. We who are born here are entitled to universal health care, and we will fight for it. It's our "amendment" as much as your right to bear arms, it's our law. It's something that many nations over here can support, and to support it we allwant to sacrifice something. Those don't, they move away, and those who stay... we shall see.
BUT. Let me adress that I am NOT PATRIOTIC. I don't think Finland is the best country in the world. We and many others have much to learn. I want to live in place that sees my values straight.
- When talking about the taxation of narcotics, such as tobacco and alcohol, we can clearly talk about it on a national and universal level. We have scientific proof that both cause harm to to both mind and body when used in excess. As we live in a "universal" country, almost everything is taken into account when thinking about taxes, lifestyle, grants, freedoms etc. You can smoke just as much as you fucking want, but people who are against it won't like you, the healt care system won't like you and it will actually reward you for quitting (many programs giving high benefits for quitters).
As for alternative treatments, Jesus, we are at a loss, I admit. I'm pro-MJ when it comes to cancer treatments - my mother is right now suffering from brest cancer and the treatment... Oh how I wish I could just spark her a joint, but it is too still-rooted as a drug for her...and many people here...too many. Otherwise, Finland is one of the leading experts in new radiation therapies for cancer care.
- The government isn't choosing shit. No matter what you're suffering from, you get treatment for it, and it's world class, believe me. If a doctor doesn't think he's good enough, you're sent to one of the major hospitals for superior care.
- How is it free? Truly, it is not 100% free. If you go to the doctor's for care, it is €40/year. Maximum. That's it. For that sum you can go to the doctor's every fricking day if you feel like it, being a hypocondriac or whatever.
Operation in a hospital? You pay for the days you stay there. Usually around €2 per day. Not too shabby.
- The tax rate. Yes, if you make over €7000/month, your tax rate may seem menacing when taking the municipal tax into account, but it's definitely not bad as the price of living here is so cheap. Compare it to Norway where the taxation is higher, yet the prices steeper...
- As for the entitlement, yes. We who are born here are entitled to universal health care, and we will fight for it. It's our "amendment" as much as your right to bear arms, it's our law. It's something that many nations over here can support, and to support it we allwant to sacrifice something. Those don't, they move away, and those who stay... we shall see.
Gorilla.Steeze
Active member
Haha great name Adam Smith. The free markets and Austrian economics FTW.
Mike-O
Active member
Maybe I said it wrong, it's 7am here and I've been up all night, sick and insomniac, sorry. But good convo dude... very good, love the green text.
- By alternative treatments, I thought you were referring to orthopedic/natural/MJish stuff, so sorry for that. We are also the forerunners of new cancer cures and treatments here, and I'll throw this off the top of my head (find factual info tomorrow hopefully..) that we are seriously taking new and different treatments into account all the time, just like anywhere else. It's not a question of cost when it's approved, and many treatments are approved and not ostracized according to both federal and medical rule globally. Treatments A,B and C are all available here depending on the diagnosis. That's 100% sure. My uncle is a brain tumor surgeon, two of my friends are studying to become one and one of my friend's is working as a chemo consultant in Finland's largest cancer clinic, so while I myself am Not an expert, I have many friends and acquaintances who are and talk about this sutff all the time at least...
- You're not insulting my intelligence, the UH treatments and costs come from the federal budget i.e. the tax payers. But we want that, and we accept it. Some of the more richer people may use medical insurance and private care if they have immediate personal issues that are not considered acute in UH (Pneumonia? Acute. Sprained ankle? Acute? Sore hip? Not acute....depending on the case).
- I would like to continue this conversation if there's more you want to address, but I might be too tired to answer right away...
-Mikko
- By alternative treatments, I thought you were referring to orthopedic/natural/MJish stuff, so sorry for that. We are also the forerunners of new cancer cures and treatments here, and I'll throw this off the top of my head (find factual info tomorrow hopefully..) that we are seriously taking new and different treatments into account all the time, just like anywhere else. It's not a question of cost when it's approved, and many treatments are approved and not ostracized according to both federal and medical rule globally. Treatments A,B and C are all available here depending on the diagnosis. That's 100% sure. My uncle is a brain tumor surgeon, two of my friends are studying to become one and one of my friend's is working as a chemo consultant in Finland's largest cancer clinic, so while I myself am Not an expert, I have many friends and acquaintances who are and talk about this sutff all the time at least...
- You're not insulting my intelligence, the UH treatments and costs come from the federal budget i.e. the tax payers. But we want that, and we accept it. Some of the more richer people may use medical insurance and private care if they have immediate personal issues that are not considered acute in UH (Pneumonia? Acute. Sprained ankle? Acute? Sore hip? Not acute....depending on the case).
- I would like to continue this conversation if there's more you want to address, but I might be too tired to answer right away...
-Mikko
spiderwoman
Member
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Proletariat.
Active member
Canada is always a great alternative
Daydreaming
Active member
The soda bit was just an example. I see a lot of stuff where the retailer will pretend that 1usd = 1ps or 1euro when really the dollar is worth less.
vauban08
Member
I've spent 10 months in CA and noted the following:
- the western world in general is saturated, but still, the US has much more potential for creative minds and still encourages people more to aim high than for example most (western) European countries. That's why all the noteworthy internet and computer companies still mainly reside in Silicon Valley. - risk mentality: work extremely hard, aim high and with a little bit of luck you will be a winner. Have bad luck and be lazy -> nobody will care and you end up on the street.
In my country, the average standard of living is considerably better than in the US, but you could call it unexciting, because most people are just happy with the way everything is and don't want to progress any more.
- the western world in general is saturated, but still, the US has much more potential for creative minds and still encourages people more to aim high than for example most (western) European countries. That's why all the noteworthy internet and computer companies still mainly reside in Silicon Valley. - risk mentality: work extremely hard, aim high and with a little bit of luck you will be a winner. Have bad luck and be lazy -> nobody will care and you end up on the street.
In my country, the average standard of living is considerably better than in the US, but you could call it unexciting, because most people are just happy with the way everything is and don't want to progress any more.
hoodratz47
Active member
i can go out and shoot a gun and smoke a joint under my Medical Card.
yeah.. cops came by.... had my card and my guns are legit.... they fired off some rounds and said. have a nice day
yeah.. cops came by.... had my card and my guns are legit.... they fired off some rounds and said. have a nice day
KillaSeason
Active member
#1 reason right here
shocker611
Active member
it looked WAY worse than it was. There are laws in place to keep people from organizing at public monuments. imagine a black family that wants to go to the vietnam vets memorial in washington dc to honor their grandfather that died in the war, meanwhile the KKK decides they want to hold a rally at this spot, see a problem with this? if im going to drive to DC to see these monuments I really dont want a bunch of people dancing around the monuments making a joke out of them. The guy was resisting arrest, whats wrong with him getting slammed?
RubberSoul
Active member
i'm just posting to tell you that you actually have the stupidest fucking signature on this entire website. "If you disagree with what I say you need to take an economics class" ....honestly im trying to think of something more douchey and untrue to offer as a worse signature but i'm drawing a blank. i really hoped after college i'd stop having to encounter your kind..fuck
vailsux.com
Active member
False. The main reason why we don't have universal health care in the U.S. is because our society wasn't built around paying into a system to provide for us. Since feudal age Europeans have had to either pay taxes or serve under whoever was in power. They don't seem to have a problem with that, whereas the U.S. was founded to get away from that system.
Your point is not valid simply because of the different demographics between states. Many states don't fit into your unhealthy stereotype and many do, but that is not the reason.
Your point is not valid simply because of the different demographics between states. Many states don't fit into your unhealthy stereotype and many do, but that is not the reason.
Bodhisattva_
Active member
....America!
For real though, I like America. Although I haven't lived in any other country so I'm sort of biased.
Dick_Buttkiss
Member
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POWDER.RANGER
Active member
im sorry, im canadian... im lost in this thread
hoodratz47
Active member
"When you're born, you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you get a front-row seat.
George Carlin
George Carlin
Skiing.Nz
Member
I was born in america and i love the place i really do.. my dads a New Zealander and moms American so anyway i live in NZ now and just recently went back to CO to see friends and everything and leaving it again was tough you know i think anywhere you count as your true home you will stick up for an love no matter what. I know the states has some bad things but i think the good outweighs the bad just my opinion from living there and in different country.
that and everything is dirt cheap Nz trying to make me pay 50 bucks for a tee shirt..
that and everything is dirt cheap Nz trying to make me pay 50 bucks for a tee shirt..