Rape vs Theft Double Standard

[californiagrown]

Why do people accept that thieves exist, and victim blame when the victim does something obviously stupid and gets robbed. But when a rape occurs, it is egregiously wrong to question the actions of the victim leading up to the incident?

Im not equating the severity of the injury to the victim, i am comparing how society reacts totally different to victims of two crimes in which the victim is equally at fault in both(not at fault).

 

[dingus]

I'd like to see OP raped and see what he says about that

 

[Troy.]

Contrary to what I expected this thread to be, you raise a really good point.

For example, I consider "Tips on how to not get raped" to be a ridiculous thing to publish, and would suggest "how to not rape" instead. But "How to not get robbed" is completely feasible.

I think that the difference is because rape is primarily targeted at women and perpetuated by men (yeah yeah, #notallmen, but statistics destroy your argument). Whereas robbery doesn't discriminate - its a car, house, etc. Robbery doesn't target one specific sex. Robbery, unlike rape, isn't perpetuated by a culture that over-sexualizes women and diminishes their ability to say "no".

Also, the ways people victim blame in robbery is so different than with rape.

Robbery: "should have locked your car/door" "you shouldn't have left $200 in cash on the front seat of your car".

Rape: "she was wearing a promiscuous outfit" "she shouldn't have been flirting with him"

For rape victims, they're subjective statements that are bullshit. What defines a promiscuous outfit or flirting? With robbery, it's a bit more cut and dry.

That said, I see your point. There are a lot of similarities, and I'm curious to see where this conversation goes.

 

[californiagrown]

Contrary to what I expected this thread to be, you raise a really good point.

For example, I consider "Tips on how to not get raped" to be a ridiculous thing to publish, and would suggest "how to not rape" instead. But "How to not get robbed" is completely feasible.

I think that the difference is because rape is primarily targeted at women and perpetuated by men (yeah yeah, #notallmen, but statistics destroy your argument). Whereas robbery doesn't discriminate - its a car, house, etc. Robbery doesn't target one specific sex. Robbery, unlike rape, isn't perpetuated by a culture that over-sexualizes women and diminishes their ability to say "no".

Also, the ways people victim blame in robbery is so different than with rape.

Robbery: "should have locked your car/door" "you shouldn't have left $200 in cash on the front seat of your car".

Rape: "she was wearing a promiscuous outfit" "she shouldn't have been flirting with him"

For rape victims, they're subjective statements that are bullshit. What defines a promiscuous outfit or flirting? With robbery, it's a bit more cut and dry.

That said, I see your point. There are a lot of similarities, and I'm curious to see where this conversation goes.

You shouldnt have left valuables in plain sight. you shouldnt have gone alone at night to that shitty neighborhood. You shouldnt have gotten really drunk in that Frat's basement. You shouldnt have dressed like a slut(lets be real, this is pretty objective most of the time).

It all seems like victim blaming to me.

 

[Troy.]

You shouldnt have dressed like a slut(lets be real, this is pretty objective most of the time).

I see your argument, and it makes a ton of sense. I don't have any answer more than what I posted first. If you have one, please let me know.

Just to be nit-picky, saying a woman is dressed "like a slut" is incredibly objective. I'm assuming when someone is dressed "like a slut" in your eyes that is: a short skirt, crop top with heavy cleavage, heels, etc. Well, thats super fucking subjective, because that definition has changed a ton. In the 1890's, a "slut" would be a woman who shoes her ankles. In the 30's, shorts would have been outlandish. In 2015 in certain Islamic countries, a woman showing anything other than her eyes is un-pure in the eyes of the Lord.

My point is that saying a woman is dressed like a slut is incredibly subjective. What would be a pretty neutral outfit in the US could be blasphemous in another country.

 

[californiagrown]

I see your argument, and it makes a ton of sense. I don't have any answer more than what I posted first. If you have one, please let me know.

Just to be nit-picky, saying a woman is dressed "like a slut" is incredibly objective. I'm assuming when someone is dressed "like a slut" in your eyes that is: a short skirt, crop top with heavy cleavage, heels, etc. Well, thats super fucking subjective, because that definition has changed a ton. In the 1890's, a "slut" would be a woman who shoes her ankles. In the 30's, shorts would have been outlandish. In 2015 in certain Islamic countries, a woman showing anything other than her eyes is un-pure in the eyes of the Lord.

My point is that saying a woman is dressed like a slut is incredibly subjective. What would be a pretty neutral outfit in the US could be blasphemous in another country.

Im not talking about over time. I'm talking about a woman that dresses significantly more provocative than the average woman of that era. She would be noticed by 9/10 people in the room as a hussy, slut, whatever era's terminology you want. The meaning remains the same, and the "effect" on men they would have remains the same.

I personally think that some rape victims, similar to some robbery victims, share a large part of the responsibility for actions that directly lead to the crimes perpetrated upon them. They are not at all responsible for the actual act, only the perpetrator is responsible for that. Everyone knows that the world has a lot of bad people in it. To voluntarily put yourself in a position that brazenly ignores and flaunts this universally known fact is to bear some responsibility somewhere for the bad thing that happens next, right?

 

[Dobber]

I would try to post an honest opinion on this thread but all hell would be unleashed.

 

[paige.]

I think there is a difference between giving genuinely helpful advice and victim-blaming. For example, teaching women self-defence and recommending they carry something like pepper spray if they're out alone at night is beneficial - yeah it should be the rapists job not to rape, but shitty people are out there so it makes sense to be prepared. Telling someone who has just gone through what is likely the most traumatic experience of their life that they deserved it because of what they wore a low cut shirt just hurts them further. Similarly, recommending a home security system or a more effective bike lock can be helpful. But telling someone who just got stabbed during a violent break-in that they deserved it because they owned a flashy flat screen TV wouldn't be appropriate.

You also have to remember that very few rapes fit into the skanky clothes and stumbling drunk through a dark alley scenario that you seem to be picturing. Rarely did the victim do something 'egregiously wrong'. I'm not even sure what the leaving your bike unlocked in a shitty neighbourhood rape equivalent would be - maybe taking a bunch of drugs then masturbating in the street in front of a group of hobos? I believe the stats say something like 2/3 of victims are raped by someone they know. 4/10 in their own home. 2/10 in the home of a friend or relative. As an almost textbook example, my friend got date-raped by one of her classmates in high school - a guy she had considered a friend for years. Was it her fault because she dared to drink a couple beers at a high school party where she knew everyone? Was it her fault because she wore a tanktop and a pushup bra? Was it her fault because she had been friendly with this guy in school for years? Obviously if she were to travel back in time there are things she could change to have the night turn out differently. But that doesn't mean the things she did that night were wrong or even inherently risky - does she need to avoid all these things in the future? So blaming her based on her actions is similar to my original example is similar to blaming someone for their break in just because they owned a fancy TV.

 

[Static]

at least you get to keep your genitals when raped, that Honda Civic is gone forever

 

[californiagrown]

I think there is a difference between giving genuinely helpful advice and victim-blaming. For example, teaching women self-defence and recommending they carry something like pepper spray if they're out alone at night is beneficial - yeah it should be the rapists job not to rape, but shitty people are out there so it makes sense to be prepared. Telling someone who has just gone through what is likely the most traumatic experience of their life that they deserved it because of what they wore a low cut shirt just hurts them further. Similarly, recommending a home security system or a more effective bike lock can be helpful. But telling someone who just got stabbed during a violent break-in that they deserved it because they owned a flashy flat screen TV wouldn't be appropriate.

You also have to remember that very few rapes fit into the skanky clothes and stumbling drunk through a dark alley scenario that you seem to be picturing. Rarely did the victim do something 'egregiously wrong'. I'm not even sure what the leaving your bike unlocked in a shitty neighbourhood rape equivalent would be - maybe taking a bunch of drugs then masturbating in the street in front of a group of hobos? I believe the stats say something like 2/3 of victims are raped by someone they know. 4/10 in their own home. 2/10 in the home of a friend or relative. As an almost textbook example, my friend got date-raped by one of her classmates in high school - a guy she had considered a friend for years. Was it her fault because she dared to drink a couple beers at a high school party where she knew everyone? Was it her fault because she wore a tanktop and a pushup bra? Was it her fault because she had been friendly with this guy in school for years? Obviously if she were to travel back in time there are things she could change to have the night turn out differently. But that doesn't mean the things she did that night were wrong or even inherently risky - does she need to avoid all these things in the future? So blaming her based on her actions is similar to my original example is similar to blaming someone for their break in just because they owned a fancy TV.

I would guess that the majority of rapes happen when an excess alcohol is involved and the victim has little capacity to resist or consent. When a woman is incapacitated around a bunch of drunk guys, to me, that's the equivalent of being stumbling drunk in a bad neighborhood. When they are wearing typical Friday/Saturday night attire in that that situation its the equivalent of flashing cash, an iPhone, nice watch, etc.

Neither victim deserves the crime, but both victims voluntarily made themselves overly vulnerable.

 

[californiagrown]

because not locking your door is a huge difference from going outside in a fucking sun dress.

Depends on the neighborhood in both situations, right?

If you see a drunk crack head outside your house, you'd be at fault for not locking your door. But getting drunk in an infamous frat's basement, while wearing very provocative clothing is you are not at fault?

 

[-emile-]

because not locking your door is a huge difference from going outside in a fucking sun dress.

because wearing a sun dress guarantees you get raped

 

[Blurst]

Depends on the neighborhood in both situations, right?

If you see a drunk crack head outside your house, you'd be at fault for not locking your door. But getting drunk in an infamous frat's basement, while wearing very provocative clothing is you are not at fault?

No its not your fucking fault. People love getting drunk, I love gettting drunk, my friends love getting drunk, my parents love getting drunk, im sure you like getting drunk. How the fuck can you say that someone who is likely much stronger than you are taking advantage of your body when you are in a completely altered and vulnerable state of mind is your fault?

Your a fucking pig, a sick fucking pig if you can even try to show a similiarty between victim blaming between these two crimes.

Victim blaming/slut shaming (whatever you want to call it) is absolutely NEVER ok and it only gives those "infamous frat boys" more of an excuse to continue raping girls on college campuses and getting away with it.

 

[-emile-]

No its not your fucking fault. People love getting drunk, I love gettting drunk, my friends love getting drunk, my parents love getting drunk, im sure you like getting drunk. How the fuck can you say that someone who is likely much stronger than you are taking advantage of your body when you are in a completely altered and vulnerable state of mind is your fault?

Your a fucking pig, a sick fucking pig if you can even try to show a similiarty between victim blaming between these two crimes.

Victim blaming/slut shaming (whatever you want to call it) is absolutely NEVER ok and it only gives those "infamous frat boys" more of an excuse to continue raping girls on college campuses and getting away with it.

I mean , I'm not saying it's ok , but people know it happens...

so if you put yourself in a position where you can be taken advantage of at a party , then yeh it's your fault.

I mean it sucks you got raped , and I'm not defending the person who does take advantage of someone in a vulnerable state , but it is your fault.

it's pretty simple really , don't get blackout drunk with people you can't trust

 

[californiagrown]

No its not your fucking fault. People love getting drunk, I love gettting drunk, my friends love getting drunk, my parents love getting drunk, im sure you like getting drunk. How the fuck can you say that someone who is likely much stronger than you are taking advantage of your body when you are in a completely altered and vulnerable state of mind is your fault?

Your a fucking pig, a sick fucking pig if you can even try to show a similiarty between victim blaming between these two crimes.

Victim blaming/slut shaming (whatever you want to call it) is absolutely NEVER ok and it only gives those "infamous frat boys" more of an excuse to continue raping girls on college campuses and getting away with it.

Wait, so you're saying that because alcohol is fun, it should never be considered a root cause of the bad things that drunkenness caused? Lol.

Why is it okay to victim blame a robbery victim for "bringing it upon themselves", but not okay in the situation of rape?

And fwiw, I've been very clear in this thread that I believe the victim is 0% at fault for the act perpetrated upon them.

 

[Blurst]

I mean , I'm not saying it's ok , but people know it happens...

so if you put yourself in a position where you can be taken advantage of at a party , then yeh it's your fault.

I mean it sucks you got raped , and I'm not defending the person who does take advantage of someone in a vulnerable state , but it is your fault.

it's pretty simple really , don't get blackout drunk with people you can't trust

Dude, do you not understand the definition of the word fault?

How the fuck can someone else forcing themselves onto you in a devastating sexual way possibly be your own fault? Women and men should feel equally as safe getting blackout drunk while partying, its unfair that this is something women actually have to be conscious of.

It is 100% the fault of the perpetrator and 0% fault of the victim. High rape rates on North American university campuses is not at all the fault of young women but it is 100% the fault of men with a complete lack of respect for women and their bodies.

 

[Lucas]

What the actual fuck

Rape =/= Theft

 

[californiagrown]

What the actual fuck

Rape =/= Theft

Okay, how bout murder, or aggravated assault vs rape.

Why do people condone victim blaming/shaming for certain crimes, but not others?

If I was being obnoxiously drunk and drunkenly spilled a guys drink and then got my face stomped in, many people would tell me to not be a drunken asshole.

 

[Mingg]

Any pink names care to weigh in?

You can't compare the two. Rape is a really big fucking deal. I've seen what it can do to someone and in this case she was never the same afterwards. Oh you got your phone stolen or a laptop, maybe your wallet? Does that really effect you? Sure you lost some material shit but does it really have that much effect on you? Probably not unless you had a gun pressed against your head or you were mugged or something like that.

And actually, most girls/women who are raped are in loose/ easy to remove clothes. So to say to not leave your valuables in plain sight or whatever does not necessarily mean the same thing in this case.

 

[Blurst]

Wait, so you're saying that because alcohol is fun, it should never be considered a root cause of the bad things that drunkenness caused? Lol.

Why is it okay to victim blame a robbery victim for "bringing it upon themselves", but not okay in the situation of rape?

And fwiw, I've been very clear in this thread that I believe the victim is 0% at fault for the act perpetrated upon them.

They are two completely different situations.

Its "ok" if you want to call it that because of the difference in the crimes. One is an incredibly emotional incident that makes a person feel disgusting, degraded, used, and potentially could have life altering affects (STIs, pregnancy, depression etc..), while the other is an occurrence that generally only has short term negative effects, usually involves replaceable consumer goods, and doesn't have any destructive effects on your body.

Obviously their are cases where people have sentimental things like family jewellery stolen and robberies can certainly turn violent but no one would ever "victim blame" a paraplegic because they were flossin' on the street and someone put a bullet in their spine.

 

[-emile-]

Dude, do you not understand the definition of the word fault?

How the fuck can someone else forcing themselves onto you in a devastating sexual way possibly be your own fault? Women and men should feel equally as safe getting blackout drunk while partying, its unfair that this is something women actually have to be conscious of.

It is 100% the fault of the perpetrator and 0% fault of the victim. High rape rates on North American university campuses is not at all the fault of young women but it is 100% the fault of men with a complete lack of respect for women and their bodies.

this is actually great proof for OP's post about the double standard.

Women shouldn't be scared of getting drunk because they might get raped by someone who can't control his urges.

People shouldn't be scared of not locking their doors or their valuable because someone might steal them.

In both cases the person at fault is the person committing the crime , because we're not supposed to do that shit. It's basic human decency.but there are criminals out there and there are people who don't give a fuck about morals , so if you leave your valuables laying around or don't lock the doors to your car , then you'll probably be robbed

If you're a girl at a party and you get drunk to the point that you can't even stand up , you might be taken advantage of by someone.

it's a reality you have to be aware of. Now if I was to leave my laptop and my wallet on the passenger seat of my car in a parking lot in a shady neighbourhood , you'd probably call me a fucking idiot for doing so , and rightfully so.

If a girl was to get blackout drunk at a frat party where stuff like that is known to happen , then it her fault for putting herself at risk , and I'd call her a fucking idiot for doing it.

sure it sucks that it happens , and in a perfect world she shouldn't have to worry about some guy raping her , just like I shouldn't have to worry about some guy stealing my shit , but we're not living in an utopia.

therefore it's my fault for not locking my doors just like it's her fault for putting herself in that position.

 

[Mingg]

What the actual fuck

Rape =/= Theft

This.

Talk to someone who's been raped. They suffer from depression, anxiety, PTSD, and a whole lot of other shit. This shit sticks with a person for a long ass time and sometimes someone's entire life.

Talk to someone who's had something stolen from them. I can guarantee its not nearly as traumatizing. You can replace material things. You can't take back what a person who was raped experienced. That shit is permanent.

 

[-emile-]

Im not equating the severity of the injury to the victim, i am comparing how society reacts totally different to victims of two crimes in which the victim is equally at fault in both(not at fault).

What the actual fuck

Rape =/= Theft

You can't compare the two. Rape is a really big fucking deal.

This.

you guys are so fucking retarded.

basic reading skills plz

 

[Charlie_Kelly]

Women and men should feel equally as safe getting blackout drunk while partying, its unfair that this is something women actually have to be conscious of.

You know what else is unfair? Women feeling guilty about sex they had with someone while drunk, regretting the decision, and claiming they got raped. Once someone is labeled as a rapist that sticks with them for life, whether its true or not. Ever heard of the Duke Lacrosse scandal? 3 men had their lives torn apart because 1 girl was embarrassed about a hook up...

 

[Blurst]

You know what else is unfair? Women feeling guilty about sex they had with someone while drunk, regretting the decision, and claiming they got raped. Once someone is labeled as a rapist that sticks with them for life, whether its true or not. Ever heard of the Duke Lacrosse scandal? 3 men had their lives torn apart because 1 girl was embarrassed about a hook up...

You're right that shit isnt fair, it sucks those guys had to go through that but these cases are extremely few and far between and much like the Duke lacrosse case through due process its normally proven that the men werent at fault.

 

[S.M.G]

surprisingly progressive thread for NSG. You guys are being really sensible and considering your male privilege. Most fuckboy assholes say insensitive shit about rape because they just have no perspective on the situation, i.e. they have no idea what it's like being a girl. Props to the men that consider the pressure/nerves/awkwardness/microaggressions/full on institutional oppression we face.

 

[Mingg]

you guys are so fucking retarded.

basic reading skills plz

"Rape vs theft double standard"

No shit there's a double standard. They're two completely different crimes. That's the point I was trying to make.

 

[californiagrown]

This.

Talk to someone who's been raped. They suffer from depression, anxiety, PTSD, and a whole lot of other shit. This shit sticks with a person for a long ass time and sometimes someone's entire life.

Talk to someone who's had something stolen from them. I can guarantee its not nearly as traumatizing. You can replace material things. You can't take back what a person who was raped experienced. That shit is permanent.

"Rape vs theft double standard"

No shit there's a double standard. They're two completely different crimes. That's the point I was trying to make.

So you are cool with victim blaming, as long as rape isn't involved?

 

[-emile-]

So you are cool with victim blaming, as long as rape isn't involved?

as long as the victim isn't female

 

[Blurst]

this is actually great proof for OP's post about the double standard.

Women shouldn't be scared of getting drunk because they might get raped by someone who can't control his urges.

People shouldn't be scared of not locking their doors or their valuable because someone might steal them.

In both cases the person at fault is the person committing the crime , because we're not supposed to do that shit. It's basic human decency.but there are criminals out there and there are people who don't give a fuck about morals , so if you leave your valuables laying around or don't lock the doors to your car , then you'll probably be robbed

If you're a girl at a party and you get drunk to the point that you can't even stand up , you might be taken advantage of by someone.

it's a reality you have to be aware of. Now if I was to leave my laptop and my wallet on the passenger seat of my car in a parking lot in a shady neighbourhood , you'd probably call me a fucking idiot for doing so , and rightfully so.

If a girl was to get blackout drunk at a frat party where stuff like that is known to happen , then it her fault for putting herself at risk , and I'd call her a fucking idiot for doing it.

sure it sucks that it happens , and in a perfect world she shouldn't have to worry about some guy raping her , just like I shouldn't have to worry about some guy stealing my shit , but we're not living in an utopia.

therefore it's my fault for not locking my doors just like it's her fault for putting herself in that position.

I think a huge difference that I feel like you are missing is the actual nature of the crimes themselves. One is a violent degrading attack against another human being for one's own personal gratification and the other is a last resort for survival that people are more or less forced into.

People do not rob and steal strictly because they have an underdeveloped moral compass or a complete lack of respect for other human beings. The majority of robberies occur out of a feeling of necessity for survival, you dont just break into houses for fun. People who are robbing houses, banks, other people on the street, do it because they feel like it is either the only way or the easiest way for them to continue living.

With rape its a completely different story. Nobody ever has to rape another human being to survive, like I stated above it is a purely selfish act for one's own gratification, that happens to have a completely devastating impact on the victims life in 100% of cases.

Its not a double standard because the crimes can't possibly be compared because of their nature.

 

[californiagrown]

I think a huge difference that I feel like you are missing is the actual nature of the crimes themselves. One is a violent degrading attack against another human being for one's own personal gratification and the other is a last resort for survival that people are more or less forced into.

People do not rob and steal strictly because they have an underdeveloped moral compass or a complete lack of respect for other human beings. The majority of robberies occur out of a feeling of necessity for survival, you dont just break into houses for fun. People who are robbing houses, banks, other people on the street, do it because they feel like it is either the only way or the easiest way for them to continue living.

With rape its a completely different story. Nobody ever has to rape another human being to survive, like I stated above it is a purely selfish act for one's own gratification, that happens to have a completely devastating impact on the victims life in 100% of cases.

Its not a double standard because the crimes can't possibly be compared because of their nature.

Because no one has ever robbed or mugged someone for the feeling of power or rush it provides. Nope. Never. Ever.

 

[theabortionator]

My giant impending shitstorm threads.

 

[Blurst]

Because no one has ever robbed or mugged someone for the feeling of power or rush it provides. Nope. Never. Ever.

Is that really the only response you have to the quoted argument?

I would be pretty confident arguing that a minuscule, not even worth talking about percentage of robberies that happen are for the power or the rush of the act.

 

[californiagrown]

Is that really the only response you have to the quoted argument?

I would be pretty confident arguing that a minuscule, not even worth talking about percentage of robberies that happen are for the power or the rush of the act.

Then you are out of touch with reality my man.

Regardless my question remains. Why are two victims equally not responsible for the act committed against them viewed differently. One is blamed the other is not. Why.

 

[-emile-]

I think a huge difference that I feel like you are missing is the actual nature of the crimes themselves. One is a violent degrading attack against another human being for one's own personal gratification and the other is a last resort for survival that people are more or less forced into.

People do not rob and steal strictly because they have an underdeveloped moral compass or a complete lack of respect for other human beings. The majority of robberies occur out of a feeling of necessity for survival, you dont just break into houses for fun. People who are robbing houses, banks, other people on the street, do it because they feel like it is either the only way or the easiest way for them to continue living.

With rape its a completely different story. Nobody ever has to rape another human being to survive, like I stated above it is a purely selfish act for one's own gratification, that happens to have a completely devastating impact on the victims life in 100% of cases.

Its not a double standard because the crimes can't possibly be compared because of their nature.

you raise a good point , but my point still stands.

what I meant was that even though it's not something that you should be scared of in the first place , it's something that might happen and you have to be aware of it.

you might get robbed if you don't lock your doors , you might get raped if you get blackout drunk.

lock you doors , don't get robbed. If you do it's not your fault.

don't get black out drunk in a party where you're at risk , don't get raped. If you do , it's not your fault

 

[theabortionator]

If you're going down the route of the controversial in this. When somebody is drunk and has consensual sex it can be considered rape because they were drunk. Yet if you drive your car while drunk, being drunk isn't an excuse. So in some areas being drunk makes you a victim in something consensual, and in others being drunk is something you did and you're still responsible for all your actions.

That one kind of weirds me out.

 

[Blurst]

you raise a good point , but my point still stands.

what I meant was that even though it's not something that you should be scared of in the first place , it's something that might happen and you have to be aware of it.

you might get robbed if you don't lock your doors , you might get raped if you get blackout drunk.

lock you doors , don't get robbed. If you do it's not your fault.

don't get black out drunk in a party where you're at risk , don't get raped. If you do , it's not your fault

I agree that getting blackout drunk increases one's vulnerability to becoming a rape victim but it certainly is not a deciding factor when it comes down to where the "fault" of the act falls. If someone is going to a party where there are people that they don't trust, not getting black out drunk and being alert of their surroundings will certainly make them less vulnerable to becoming a victim of a violent sexual act. But at NO point does a victim putting themselves in an altered state of mind make someone else's aggressive act against their body the fault of the victim.

 

[Anathema]

the double standard i don't like:

woman cries rape. everyone crucifies the male party involved.

man cries rape. wait, what? does this even exist? sex crime against a woman?

i bring this up because when i was in 7th grade, i got pantsed by a chick in gym class. now, i'm not a super shy person, but when she pulled my shorts (and boxers down) in front of my class, it was super embarrassing. but the problem was that even the prof laughed. nothing came of it. it was all just a running joke for a while. haw haw keep your shorts on buddy..

imagine if a guy had done something like that to a girl? his life would be over and he'd be labeled a sexual predator forever.

 

[californiagrown]

I agree that getting blackout drunk increases one's vulnerability to becoming a rape victim but it certainly is not a deciding factor when it comes down to where the "fault" of the act falls. If someone is going to a party where there are people that they don't trust, not getting black out drunk and being alert of their surroundings will certainly make them less vulnerable to becoming a victim of a violent sexual act. But at NO point does a victim putting themselves in an altered state of mind make someone else's aggressive act against their body the fault of the victim.

If you replace rape with robbery in the exact situation you posted above, many people would blame the victim for putting themselves in that situation.

Why?

 

[Mingg]

So you are cool with victim blaming, as long as rape isn't involved?

Please tell me where I discussed victim blaming. If you were to ask me, id tell you a victim is never to blame. "They were asking for it" is NEVER justification for anything someone else does to you.

 

[californiagrown]

Please tell me where I discussed victim blaming. If you were to ask me, id tell you a victim is never to blame. "They were asking for it" is NEVER justification for anything someone else does to you.

When I asked why its okay to victim blame a robbery victim and you said because rape is so much worse.

So you think a drunk guy with cash sticking outta his pocket, talking on an iPhone in the middle of the ghetto at night...is not in any way to be at fault should he be robbed?

 

[theabortionator]

the double standard i don't like:

woman cries rape. everyone crucifies the male party involved.

man cries rape. wait, what? does this even exist? sex crime against a woman?

i bring this up because when i was in 7th grade, i got pantsed by a chick in gym class. now, i'm not a super shy person, but when she pulled my shorts (and boxers down) in front of my class, it was super embarrassing. but the problem was that even the prof laughed. nothing came of it. it was all just a running joke for a while. haw haw keep your shorts on buddy..

imagine if a guy had done something like that to a girl? his life would be over and he'd be labeled a sexual predator forever.

For sure.

 

[Blurst]

When I asked why its okay to victim blame a robbery victim and you said because rape is so much worse.

So you think a drunk guy with cash sticking outta his pocket, talking on an iPhone in the middle of the ghetto at night...is not in any way to be at fault should he be robbed?

There should be no victim blaming for either crime. That man is not at fault for his own robbery, yes he put himself in a much more vulnerable position by flashing his phone and money but that doesnt ever make it his fault.

In the end like I tried explaining in my posts above, these are two completely different crimes in which the relationship between the victim and the accused are very very different. The outcomes of each crime are incredibly different, the affect on the victim in each crime is not even comparable etc.. etc..

You have to be able to understand why it is deemed acceptable by society to put a portion of blame on a person for leaving out a valuable consumer good and having it taken from them, when it is not and never ever should be acceptable to blame a woman for someone else's selfish disgusting attack against their body.

 

[Phil-X-]

happy to see a legit thread thread going, anyone know guys that have been raped by guys? Kid from my hs got raped in college, crazy shit..

 

[theabortionator]

Woke up to a chick riding me while I was unconscious. Made absolutely no moves. She 100% knew I wasn't interested but decided to use my dick because it was there.

Honestly pretty rapey. If that had brought me to a place where I was super freaked out, and wanted to do something about it I would have gotten laughed at. Trying to make that case would have been seen as a huge joke because I have a dick and she had a vagina.

Talked to a friend of mine about it(she's a mutual friend and this happened on a trip together) He said he woke up next to her with a condom on or near by or something.

I don't take things too seriously and he doesn't really either but he said their friendship was never really the same after.

I was kind of whatever about the whole thing. Felt kind of weird after, then I also had to drive solo with her to toronto later that morning. Was pretty awkward.

Not saying that I wanted to press charges but just that if I did it would have been the funniest thing ever. Even though she 100% knew I had absolutely no interest in having sex with her but decided to take advantage of me while I was passed out.

Girls bitch all day about double standards regarding gender so I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents considering I was actually on the victim end.

 

[Steezy_Peazy]

No its not your fucking fault. People love getting drunk, I love gettting drunk, my friends love getting drunk, my parents love getting drunk, im sure you like getting drunk. How the fuck can you say that someone who is likely much stronger than you are taking advantage of your body when you are in a completely altered and vulnerable state of mind is your fault?

Your a fucking pig, a sick fucking pig if you can even try to show a similiarty between victim blaming between these two crimes.

Victim blaming/slut shaming (whatever you want to call it) is absolutely NEVER ok and it only gives those "infamous frat boys" more of an excuse to continue raping girls on college campuses and getting away with it.

I love racing. Racing is loads of fun. The officer even agreed that racing is fun. But, I'm begging for rides from everyone I know now. The cop's words were something along the lines of "If you wanted to race, do so in a controlled environment" or something to that effect. I would say the same to anyone who likes to get drunk. Don't do it in a car, or with people you don't know well, or just don't outside the home. Being drunk, in any situation, is the equivalence of leaving your door wide open and a pile of cash on the table. Anything can happen, wether you get attacked, robbed, injure yourself, or others, or even just break expensive stuff. If you let yourself get hammered in public or with people you don't know, while usually no one deserves it, some of the blame must come to rest n the victim's shoulders. Their are shitty people out there, this is known. Some people are take-your-shit-shitty, and others are rape-you-shitty. Don't make it easy for them. While the "frat boys" deserve the blame, would the outcome have been different if the victim had chosen to stay coherent? Probably. I don't condone rape, but some people make it easy to be taken advantage of.

 

[Steezy_Peazy]

There should be no victim blaming for either crime. That man is not at fault for his own robbery, yes he put himself in a much more vulnerable position by flashing his phone and money but that doesnt ever make it his fault.

In the end like I tried explaining in my posts above, these are two completely different crimes in which the relationship between the victim and the accused are very very different. The outcomes of each crime are incredibly different, the affect on the victim in each crime is not even comparable etc.. etc..

You have to be able to understand why it is deemed acceptable by society to put a portion of blame on a person for leaving out a valuable consumer good and having it taken from them, when it is not and never ever should be acceptable to blame a woman for someone else's selfish disgusting attack against their body.

If we remove crime, and the drunk dude loses his wallet, cash, phone, and watch, or he crashes his car, or falls off a bridge, does he have any blame placed on him? The actions of others do not cancel out the actions of one. If a man is robbed while buying contraband (drugs, guns, whatever), for example, the robber will be charged for theft, but the first guy is still on the hook for buying contraband.

 

[Blurst]

If we remove crime, and the drunk dude loses his wallet, cash, phone, and watch, or he crashes his car, or falls off a bridge, does he have any blame placed on him? The actions of others do not cancel out the actions of one. If a man is robbed while buying contraband (drugs, guns, whatever), for example, the robber will be charged for theft, but the first guy is still on the hook for buying contraband.

I'm sorry but the removal of crime is a really bad example of trying to pin the blame on the guy and your second example really doesnt hold any weight either. It isn't that mans fault for being robbed but it is his fault for breaking the law in another form (buying contraband). In our hypothetical guy waltzing through the ghetto at night scenario he is not breaking any laws so I dont really see the connection between the two situations???

Getting robbed by another person is their fault. Like I stated before you can do a million things to make yourself more vulnerable to a robbery but a person should never be blamed for the actions of another individual against themselves.

 

[californiagrown]

There should be no victim blaming for either crime. That man is not at fault for his own robbery, yes he put himself in a much more vulnerable position by flashing his phone and money but that doesnt ever make it his fault.

In the end like I tried explaining in my posts above, these are two completely different crimes in which the relationship between the victim and the accused are very very different. The outcomes of each crime are incredibly different, the affect on the victim in each crime is not even comparable etc.. etc..

You have to be able to understand why it is deemed acceptable by society to put a portion of blame on a person for leaving out a valuable consumer good and having it taken from them, when it is not and never ever should be acceptable to blame a woman for someone else's selfish disgusting attack against their body.

The final, specific crime should have no bearing on whose fault it was. The guy who broke into your house, and then stole your TV, and then pistol whipped you, and then raped you was 100% to blame the whole damn time. He didnt accrue more and more of the blame as his crime escalated in nature.

 

[Blurst]

The final, specific crime should have no bearing on whose fault it was. The guy who broke into your house, and then stole your TV, and then pistol whipped you, and then raped you was 100% to blame the whole damn time. He didnt accrue more and more of the blame as his crime escalated in nature.

My post had nothing to do with the "severity" of the crime, I clearly stated that it was the nature of the crime that makes the difference.

By nature I mean that when a woman is raped she is embarrassed, she can feels used, she can be ashamed or feel dirty, she could feel like she and her body are not respected, that she has been taken advantage of against her will by someone much stronger than she is (presumably), her self esteem can be destroyed, and she can feel like she will be judged by society for something that is out of her control. Which is why so few cases of sexual assault go reported. In Canada only 6% of all sexual assaults against women are reported, 6 fucking percent, thats fucked and there is clearly a reason for it.

Why would we ever need to increase those feelings and continue this horrible stereotyping of rape victims by even putting a tiny morsel of blame on their part?

(source)http://www.sexassault.ca/statistics.htm

When someone gets robbed they generally don't feel any of the loss of self esteem or dirty and ashamed, they are just fucking pissed off and want their stuff back.

So yes I agree the severity of the crime shouldnt matter but when comparing two crimes that are very different you need to think about the implications of "victim blaming" in both cases.

 

[californiagrown]

My post had nothing to do with the "severity" of the crime, I clearly stated that it was the nature of the crime that makes the difference.

By nature I mean that when a woman is raped she is embarrassed, she can feels used, she can be ashamed or feel dirty, she could feel like she and her body are not respected, that she has been taken advantage of against her will by someone much stronger than she is (presumably), her self esteem can be destroyed, and she can feel like she will be judged by society for something that is out of her control. Which is why so few cases of sexual assault go reported. In Canada only 6% of all sexual assaults against women are reported, 6 fucking percent, thats fucked and there is clearly a reason for it.

Why would we ever need to increase those feelings and continue this horrible stereotyping of rape victims by even putting a tiny morsel of blame on their part?

(source)http://www.sexassault.ca/statistics.htm

When someone gets robbed they generally don't feel any of the loss of self esteem or dirty and ashamed, they are just fucking pissed off and want their stuff back.

So yes I agree the severity of the crime shouldnt matter but when comparing two crimes that are very different you need to think about the implications of "victim blaming" in both cases.

How does severity of the crime have anything to do with who is at fault for the crime? Lol.

I am simply pointing out the double standard that exists with victim blaming. Neither victim should be blamed, yet most people are totally cool with pointing out all the ignorant things a robbery or assault victim might have done.