Progession vs. stupidity

to progress u have to have some stupidity to try stuff but some people are jsut stupid and try things that are way too hard for them and never get better

and about the rail deal they can be pretty cool but they deffinatley dont do much for skiing at all they dont take near as much talent as going of a jumps and doin an insane trick
 
Who ever use the surfing analogy hit the nail dead on its head -

This arguement has been played out in every other "extreme" sport it was only a matter of time until skiers starting whinning about the same things...

About 10-years ago surfers started towing into larger (massive) waves and an instant split developed between what was hyped as progression, vs core paddle in surfers who viewed it as jet-ski assisted suicide and the anti-thesis of everything they loved about their sport.

Years later it is completly accepted amoung "pro" surfers and the only bitches whinning are the little jib rats playing in shorebreaks or at the hook in santa-cruz.

Tow-in surfing is the cliff hucking of their sport - and it takes EVERY single bit of ability that you can muster -

What Pierre does take decades of balance and skill. It takes a progression bording on 1000s of smaller jumps over his entire career to build up to his 255-footer.

Any skier who questions this ability is 100% ignorant to our entire sport - Now I am no J.Pierre but I have spent a long career "hucking" off of the same lines scott schmidt and plake proved themselves on - and it takes alot more than just falling to be able to do it -

It takes progression - it takes learning from a lifetime of skiing and a lifetime of mistakes to be able to stand ontop of a large drop and tell yourself "its time".

Whether it is pointing it down poney express or hot tubbing it off a 70-footer at brighton it takes years of personal progression to do it.

I do not see ANY guerrilla steeze monster twin tip park rats lining up on top of chimney at Squaw to participate in the progression that happens every single blue-bird wind buffed day up there.

I have personally taken "newschool" skiers and taught encouraged them to strgtline runs like chimney sweep at squaw - Know what? It changes their entire approach to skiing. Same with hucking a monster cliff - it gives you inner confidence that NO rail or booter can give you. And that confidence breeds progression - if it were not for large hucks and death defying strgtlines then were would our benchmarks of the sport come from? How would we scare ourselves, how would we measure our accomplishments against past generations?

You ask about stupidity - well that is all relevant to your level of progression.
 
here's something to think about: i've heard that many kids in the park these days have no correct skiing technique, just gorilla steez. are you progressing more at skiing by learning to carve, or learning how to slide a rail?
 
cliff dropping is progression, im sure when rails were first invented people were falling on like 30 foot flat bars. Now look where it has gone, people are sliding monster rails and really technical rails. It all has to start somewhere, so the huge cliff dropping is progressing and over time, im sure someone will shut up all your bitching and ride away from 200 footers.
 
I completely support the guys that are dropping the huge cliffs, I think that is sick, but there is no way anybody will ever land a 200 footer. It just isn't possible.
 
The cliff thing is cool but pretty stupid really. As for rails I'm not that big on them really but they are fun.
 
there is a question between progression and stupidity but at the same time picture skiing with out big cliffs or rails. Those are two major aspects of skiing. Cliff hucks are pushing the limits of big mt skiing. It may not take skill but it is ballsy. Personaly i prefer to see riders like seth flip off cliffs but there would be a big void in the progression of skiing if no one attempted cliff hucks. There would be an even bigger void with out rails. Without rails there would be no urban and half of park would be gone. If you look at the sport w/o cliffs or rails there is alot missing. There would only be bc booters, park jumps, pipe, and big mt lines. Cliffs and rails may seem stupid to you but in reality those two elemnts have become a big part of the progression in our sport
 
I call bullshit on the comparison with tow-in surfing.

The tow surfers don't just drop-in and bail at the bottom, they (most times) ride the shit out of the wave. And there is no way that anyone who was not an incredibly skilled surfer could ever do that.

Not trying to diss on the guys hucking huge cliffs, but it is possible that an absolute beginner skier could potentially point 'em off the edge of a big one, drop, and survive. A beginner surfer could never tow in to a big wave and succesfully ride it.

That's not to say that the guys doing cliffs are bad skiers, most of them are great, I just don't agree with the comparison to tow surfing. Other than the machine assisted take-off, they truly ride the wave. If a guy drops off a huge cliff to a deadstop bombhole, he didn't truly ski the line.

I guess you could compare it to someone who tows into a huge wave and eats it before making the bottom turn, but that's about as far as you could compare the two.
 
how come noone asks if rails are just a phase in snowboarding? like...same aspect. and dont say because of skateboarding because snowboarding and skateboarding only share one commonality, its a board. if you think about basic snowboarding its really surfing. no rails in the water. so, with that, i say no, rails are awesome.
 
stupid stuff is one footers and anything like that, its dumb looking unless you can do it really good, but big presses or nollies and stuff like that are sweet. and huge cliffs arent really progressive but they are cool as fuck, it may be really really risky but its not stupid if your having fun doing it. and i think progressive would be doing tons more urban, like stairs would be sweet, you never see people seeing how big of stair sets they can do, and it would be sweet.
 
rails are progression. they require practice, skill, and allow for advancement of the sport. jumping off of 200+ foot cliffs with skis attached to your feet is what some people call base jumping, and is a completely different sport.
 
you're not on snow when you do rails plus they fuck up your skis.

You have to ski some pretty difficult slope to get to those 200+ footers, which requires skill. Not getting injured while jumping off 200+ footers WITH NO CHUTEtakes skill. You have to land right, and you have to get the right amount of air.
 
In terms of gonzo cliff hucking check out the thread on the TGR forums about the 200-something footer in Mineral Basin...its nuts. Leo something the guys name was..
 
You guys don't get it, do you? THIS THREAD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME. I'm not a pro skier. I like sliding on metal. I like jumping off buildings. I like hucking cliffs and landing on my back. I get hurt a lot. I'm okay with that.

I'm not calling out Pierre. I'm not even complaining. I'm just asking questions. I was trying to start an intelligent conversation. Otherwise, I might have said, "World record cliff hucking is gay. Rails aren't skiing." No, I think it's cool. But at the same time, I sit back and wonder why I'm so absurdly passionate about this shit...I mean, it doesn't make too much sense if you think about it from a distance.
 
I don't know, it's a very grey area for now since people are just starting to peep into this realm. Perhaps in 20 years 200 footers will be an everyday thing, probably not. Whats the point of dropping any sized cliff? fun? Rush? all that shit yup, who are you to say when it's a certain size it's not skiing, it obviously is for these guys. Thats like me saying your urban jibbing is bullshit and not skiing because theres no snow around and you arn't even turning, you might as well be on rollerblades.

And to the kid that said hitting 200+footers takes less skill than jibbing, keep telling yourself that and the 100,000 6 year old kids that slide rails on a daily basis, yet theres 3-4 people in the world who drop enormous cliffs. I've known kids who are nasty at rails that just started skiing two months ago. I don't know anyone that has been skiing for two months that has even hit a 40 footer.
 
you're right tho...which is probably why my parents still don't get it and they grew up skiing...I think it has to do with certain aspects of our sport only being televised during the X-Games and that's pretty much it...Oh well, I figure you gotta try and open closed minds...that's the only way to get our sport more credability for people who don't understand why we love it so much...
 
There's not a lot of people in the world that go over Niagra Falls in barrels either, is that because it requires more skill than something like tennis, which thousands of people do?

The difference in numbers is probably a lot more to do with the risk factor of rails vs. huge cliffs than the actual skill level required.
 
yeah...i dont like it when people ride into parking lots....i dont know why i just dont.but they can get new skis anytime so they probably dont care, but its still not as awesome as backcountry or park
 
yeah what pierre did doesnt seem like it took much skill, he landed on his head, it doesnt take skill to do that, landing on his feet would take tons of skill and riding out of it would make him like the best skier ever. but it took tons of balls witch can definatly be more cool than skills.
 
^^^^you CANNOT ride out of a 245' cliff. since none of us have ever had 4+ seconds of freefall skiing of a cliff, none of us know what the resistance is like - especially with big fat wing like skis underneath. his little head prolly had less resistance than his fat skis. it takes skill and experiance to drop big cliffs without getting seriously injured. ahern got hurt making the previous record. props to pierre, but i wish people would cool it on these big drops. would have been a shame if pierre had gotten hurt or dead. he's got a wife and kids and said himself that he's lucky it didn't end up worse. however, he scoped that cliff for like 7 seasons and this season has delivered the best base in like 40 years for that region - pierre has balls but was patient with it. some guys just go for it with out waiting it out like pierre.
 
jumping off 200+ foot cliffs with skis on is not a completely different sport because its not base jumping, its hucking which is a part of skiing whether you like it or not. base jumping is without skis and with a parachute.

the introduction of base jumping to big mountain skiing is one of the most progressive things that has happened- for the people pioneering it like McConkey it opens up big mountain terrain that would never normally be hittable. Now there are some sick lines some pros can chose to hit it even if it ends with an 800footer
 
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