"Pro Choice" is stupid as hell, and Democrats suck at arguing.

that's a stupid thing to argue, what the hell point are you trying to make? and you know that woman who are getting abortions don't give 2 shits about what you think right? she is going to get the abortion anyway? so what's the point of arguing?
 
You missed the point entirely.

Just because a sperm fertilizes a egg, it doesn't make that group of cells a human. A lot of shit still needs to go right before we can start considering it a person with rights. Especially because those rights infringe on another person's rights. A person that actually is alive.
 
Thats different kind of regret and you know it.

I would be willing to bet that a lot less of parents who actually had the kid experience serious regret than those who went the abortion route. I'm talking like, emotionally scarred years later kind of regret, not just, "Shit this kid is expensive, what were we thinking that night" kind of regret.

I have no idea how trustworthy these stats are, seeing as most people who make these stats generally are skewed one way or the other, but for what its worth

A survey of post-abortive women found that:

28% attempted suicide

31% experienced suicidal feelings

60% commented that the decision to abort made their lives worse

94% regretted the decision to abort

"Survey of Reaction to Abortion," The Post Abortion Review, Fall 1994, pp. 6-8.
 
Well no shit, abortion is the anti-thesis of a woman's nature. That doesn't mean that just because she feels bad about it that it was not the right choice to make. That's what puts humans above any other mammal. We can make decisions beyond what our primal instincts tell us to do.
 
Those are some pretty shocking numbers. Here's an article I found, and it falls a lot more in line with other studies I've seen.

"Aug. 22, 2000 -- The impact of an abortion on a woman's mental health has been questioned for years. Some studies have suggested that many women suffer depression, regret and even a form of post-traumatic stress disorder called 'post-abortion syndrome.'

But a study out this month finds that 80% of women were not depressed after having an abortion. In fact, the rate of depression in the postabortion group was equal to the rate of depression in the general population. As for post-traumatic stress symptoms, the rate was 1% in the postabortion group compared with an estimated 11% in women of the same age in the general population.

The study's authors say the results agree with previous studies -- including one by former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop, MD -- showing that severe mental distress following an abortion is rare.

"Most women were satisfied with their decision, believed they had benefited more than had been harmed by their abortion, and would have the abortion again," writes study author Brenda Major, PhD. "These findings refute claims that women typically regret an abortion." Major is a professor of psychology at the University of California in Santa Barbara.

For the study, published in the August issue of Archives of General Psychiatry, Major and colleagues interviewed 882 women undergoing abortion. The interviews were conducted prior to abortion, immediately after the procedure, and, for 442 women, again two years later.

Nearly 70% of women reported being satisfied with the decision, and 72% reported more benefit than harm. Of those who reported depression or regret after the abortion, most were depressed or had emotional problems prior to becomingpregnant.

Experts express little surprise at the findings and say this study is more proof that for the majority of women, abortion has few aftereffects.

In an editorial accompanying the study, Nancy Adler, PhD, says that rather than contributing to mental stress, the studies suggest a significant decrease in mental distress and an increase in positive emotions and self-esteem.

Adler, director of health psychology at the University of California in San Francisco, also points out that it is important to look closer at studies that have found psychological harm after abortion to evaluate whether distress really was the result of the abortion, or of other events.

"Experiencing an unwanted pregnancy is itself distressing, as may be the events associated with it. For example, a woman's partner may respond to the pregnancy by leaving her. The abortion then occurs in the context of loss and abandonment, yet depression or distress following the abortion would be attributed to the procedure," Adler writes. Facing hostile protesters and intimidation in seeking an abortion also may be factors that heighten risk for psychological problems postabortion in some women, she says.

"Most women fare very well emotionally," agrees David Grimes, MD. "It's important to understand that abortion is not a problem, it's a solution. The problem is the unintended pregnancy. When that is behind them they oftentimes will feel much better. But it is well documented that relief is the overwhelming response of most women."

Psychological counseling is routine at most facilities that perform abortions.

"It's mainly a discussion about the risk, benefits and alternatives and then a discussion of contraceptive options after the procedure," Grimes tells WebMD. Grimes is vice president of biomedical affairs at Family Health International, a nonprofit group in Research Triangle Park, N.C., that helps women and men obtain access to family planning services and methods.

Both Adler and Grimes say the findings highlight the need to identify and provide extra support and counseling to women who may be experiencing depression or other problems prior to an abortion and may be at risk for problems afterwards."

http://women.webmd.com/news/20000822/study-says-most-women-dont-regret-abortion

Anyway, you shouldn't outlaw something because people regret it, that's not fair to the women who don't regret it. Women should speak to their doctors about the potential risks and benefits of an abortion, not their senators.

 
It's easy to be against abortion. No one likes abortion. No one has abortions for fun. It's a last resort, and it's not something that any woman wants to go through. But that does not mean that the option should be taken away from her.

Abortion should be safe, legal, available, and rare.

I've said all I have to say.
 
this, and while in SOME cases, there are women who are emotionally scarred, there are also those who feel an immense sense of relief in their actions. it goes both ways.

take a step back and take a look at this thread. look how many men are arguing, and how many women are arguing. the general consensus of the women is pro choice, while not necessarily supporting abortion, but support the ability to choose what they want for their bodies. there have been zero girls (i appologize if i overlooked any who said otherwise) that have been against them having the choice of what they are to do with their own body.

i find it funny that everyone (myself included) has been arguing about what women should or should not be allowed to do with their body, all the while, the WOMEN who have posted, all feel the same way.. man, guys definitely know best right?
 
Right there should be enough proof that men should not be able to tell women what to do with their bodies and using logic such as, it is not their wombs anymore once conception is achieved, is barbaric.

Notice during the Republican hearings on abortion that women are not allowed to participate? Yes that has happened and the only women who all happen to be on Fox or other slanted networks, who say that abortion should be illegal have never been in the position of having an unwanted pregnancy for any of the reasons I listed above. Again its more proof that the Republican party now runs off of ignorance... which is sad to see.

Again, I would love to see one of these pro-lifers who support federal mandate to explain to me as to why they want less federal regulations in our lives but fully support laws that dictate what women can and cannot do with their bodies.
 
Its barbaric to think that a future human life should be ended because a woman made poor life choices and doesnt want the child.
 
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it's also completely asinine that you think you have any RIGHT to tell someone else what to do with their body, regardless of what the action is. i would really love to hear WHY you think its ok to tell someone else what to do with THEIR body. i mean, are you going to tell someone not to committ suicide because you don't agree with it? terrible example but COME ON. your beliefs cannot dictate what someone else does to their body. i have no idea how you can possibly think that you have any right to that. holy shit.
 
if i pick up a gun with my hand and shoot someone is it ok because its my hand and i can do whatever i want with it?
 
See this is where you're insane... you just compared shooting someone to someone aborting a fetus. Those are not the same thing. Its just too bad that you religious nuts cannot discern the differences between two vastly different situations like that.

And yes, describing you as a nut is very fitting if you think both those situations are the same.
 
It doesn't matter whether or not abortion is legal, women will still get them. The difference is that if abortion is illegal women will get them by unregistered practitioners, and failed abortions causing death, infection, and/or birth defects will be much more common.

If someone already posted an argument like this.... well then fuck.
 
Actually suicide is illegal because suicide affects a LOT more people than just you. Its one of the most selfish things a person can do.
 
And you are still, nothing more than a clump of cells. And again, this brings the argument back to the question of where life begins. Conception? Birth? A heart beat? The pro life argument is just that, it is about protecting the life of an innocent. It is not about men deciding what woman can and can't do with their bodies. If men wanted to decide what to do with woman's bodies, they would be on a stair master 5 hours a day, and department stores would not carry anything above a size two.
 
If you were a fetus, would you rather not have a conciousness, and not know you even exsisted, or live in a possibly harmful household, with parents who did not want you?
 
So are we giving up on trying to evolve our society to the point where parents care about their children? Where the societal norm becomes putting the livelihood of your children before yourself. The movement to make abortion socially expectable is, in my opinion, a movement away from that end state. It won't be easy to get there, and it sure as hell won't be convenient; but then again, nothing worth doing really is.
 
god u are fucking retarted! u realize it is considered a fetus as long as it is inside of a woman? the only moment it magically becomes a person is when it emerges from the females body. how the fuck can u say it is ok to kill a baby hours before it is born? o right its just a fetus just a bunch of cells.....wake the fuck up! and if not then tell me when in the magical journey of reproduction does the fetus become a baby? when is it just a bunch of cells and when is it a full living breathing thinking being? And to whoever was saying if abortion was illegal chicks wold get sketchy illegal botched abortions in a back alley.....Good for them! they are idiots making a stupid decision that should pay the price. let them go hand 100 bucks to a guy with a vacuum cleaner(jokes) see if i care it is murder they are stupid let them ruin their bodies and lives with a botched one maybe then they will think before they accept the full responsibilities that sex entails. thats it im out/
 
As someone currently in an embryology course, you are incorrect.

This topic wis much too complicated and controversial to be argued with a two sentence post.
 
frankly, pinknames already know they don't want the government up their vaginas (although i'm told obama is a sexy motherfucker). it's the rest of you we're trying to convince here, you government-loving (just admit it), fetus-loving, self-loving men.
 
hmm so suicide effects other people so its illegal, but preventing a new life from being born should be legal cause its up to the mom.... makes sense.
 
Pro life is great for republicans. it ensures that there will always be a lower class due to teen pregnancies that they arent legally allowed to get away from. they are then usually doomed to a life of single mothership and never really being able to make it out of the low income bracket. Rich fucks who own companies like mcdonalds, walmart, and kmart, can then make money off of people who must survive off of this horrible cost effective food and other goods they feed them and make a shit ton of money off of it. its evil but i'm sure its taken into account somewhere. there are some serious sickos in business here in the USA.
 
this so much. this is about the government telling women what they can and cannot do with their bodies.

and jibjunkie, most clinics/doctors won't perform an abortion after the first trimester. its not like some woman gets to 8 months and says "oh shit, i just realized, i don't want this baby lol, suck it out of me!". so its not like a fully formed infant is being taken out of the mother and beheaded, my jeez. its decided within the first weeks before the sack of cells has a chance to form into anything more than the sack of cells.
 
Tangent: I've always wondered whether it was selfish to be upset that someone committed suicide. I've never experienced it, and I'm sure my outlook would change, but it's their life and if they would rather be dead, who are we to be sad that they are experiencing their 'life' the way they want to?

Just playing the DA, I've always considered it selfish but have been wondering.
 
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