Presidential Debate

there is no limit then to what government can spend in your mind... ?

i have second cousins in sweden, do you know what a big mac costs?? 2 years ago when my 2nd cousin was here he couldnt believe how CHEAP everything was... answer, they are taxed phenomenally high.

lets eliminate corporate tax loop holes, BUT LETS also cut taxes ALLOT.

didnt you see the context of my rather vulgar joke?

our economy "pisses" on their economy (when its going good)

they also owe us a big "thanks guy's" like maybe pay back the debts from WW2?
 
regardless. it doesnt matter what happened the point is, this country is in a financial crisis, and mccain is for the deregulation that got us here
 
but this is not as a result of the free market. this is a result of government saying "make more loans"

specifically to people who couldnt afford them.

the free market didnt get us here, government got us here... it was over regulation going in the wrong direction that got us here.

o did you know that McCAin tried to do something about this in 05? or he at least warned about it.
 
Theres a difference between what politicians say and what they actually get done. McCain didnt make it happen, and neither did Obama. Fuck, neither did anyone in our government. How can you give points to someone because they saw something coming and then put it on the backburner?
 
dude, i have made it VERY CLEAR, i dont like McCAin.

i like some of the things he stands for, but the majority of his idea's i HATE.

i still dont know if i am going to vote for him, Barr is looking more enticing.
 
no, north koreans are 3 inches shorter, and he was making that point because studies have shown this is a result of malnutrition, and at that time in the debate he was talking about how north koreans are repressed by a brutal regime.
 
there is no limit

wasn't the whole poorest of the poor given basic rights the limit, once you've produced the rights for the poorest of the poor, you don't have anymore spending....that level of basic rights is the 'limit' i guess you just can't handle a limit unless it's got a number in it.

zomg it's expensive

but it's worth it... that's the point.

i had a joke

and i had a point, that each government has gone through highs and lows and that no one system is the right system, you've got to adapt to what you're facing...

Here's an easy question -- You're in debt, how do you make money?

a. Cut taxes

b. Don't do anything

c. Raise taxes

easier question because you know the answer is always c.

who do you tax?

a. the poor

b. the kinda poor

c. the not poor

if you want the country to soldier on, you've gotta pay for it, whose can afford it? the rich? Maybe rich corporations don't care if our country falls apart, but the rest of us do, we'd like there to still be a United States of America. If you agree that there should be a US of A then you can't let the people who built them selves up from nothing to take the money they made and run away with it, they're in debt to the society that allowed them that opportunity -- they repay that debt by staying within the community, by being a part of our country.

b
 
christ. the bill just didnt pass, and now its turning into republicans this democrats that.

isnt there more important shit to worry about right now?
 
This was silly, though. I went to MSNBC, directly after the debate, it had obama with the win. They said obama: 59%, mccain 31%...then i flipped to fox news...where it said Mccain: 89% obama 11%...

so yeah...
 
dude, im not gonna lie, i got a little "shiver" reading this...

anyho, i have class in 15min so i will debunk as much of this post as i can when i get home....

did you fail econ 101? seriously?
 
ah yep.... I think the economy is working just fine. The business who took the risk for the reward are fucking hurting now that they are burnt.... awwwwwwwww.. poor babies aren't going to make zillions this year. let em fuckin burn.

In the Carter era interest rates were 15% for a home. Do any of you remember that? Didn't think so. Guess what the highlight was every year? Refinancing to a lower rate! wooo hooo!
 
the thing is its effecting a hell of a lot more than just them. if we just keep letting banks fail we could very well end up in another depression.
 
funny how econ 101 is the declarative truth behind all economics

never failed it because i didn't take it... so you can call me out on not knowing shit about economics.

however, i've heard that economic texts books have major flaws in them such as unlimited resource bases, and not accounting for the work done by nature. You can spew you're 'knowledge' on the subject later, but i'm not going to believe all of it. Economics to me is in a period of scholasticism, and in my opionion there have been much better ways to live than to have your food under lock and key, while the master makes you dance 40 hours a week to get some pay, all justified in Econ 101

 
i cant stand either of the candidates. when in doubt, vote for RALPH NADER. hahaha. but seriously im moving to canada after i graduate. this country is going to rip itself apart one way or another...
 
However, what history teachers tend to gloss over is that decline happens over time and is not a single event. Another thing to remember is that the economy needs to actually start shrinking. We're still growing at about a 2% rate and unemployment is also very low.
 
my bad, i meant the other way around too. sorry for the confusion. either way it was out of context and had barely any relevance to a US presidential debate. i'm not condoning the regime accountable for these types of problems, it just doesn't pertain to the election here in the US, nor was it even relevant at the time of mentioning.
 
In the Carter admim. the stock market didn't have its biggest one day single loss in history. We are sitting on the blade of a knife and one slip up could cause a depression.
 
this 780 point drop might have been the most points. but it was no where near as large as a percentage drop in previous years.. The drop in '87 was far more substantial I think the one after 9/11 was more substantial..

here:

it was the 17th biggest percentage decline for the Dow and remained well below the more than 20 percent drops seen on Black Monday of October 1987 and the Depression.
 
um idk where you got 17th everything i was hearing on cnn was that it was the 4th.

regardless a bigger problem is the freezing of the credit market. credit is what drives this economy and right now banks wont lend money...
 
as much as I watch CNN - do take it with a grain of salt. BTW anyone who reads this and is interested in history, please please please review the various graphs related the DJ average. Just google it.

here: this was from 15 minutes ago:

At the close, the Dow rose 485.21, or 4.68 percent, to 10,850.66 after falling nearly 7 percent on Monday to its lowest close in nearly three years. It was the largest point drop and 17th largest percentage drop in the blue chip index. The percentage decline was far less severe than the 20-plus-percent drops seen in the stock market crash of October 1987 and before the Great Depression.

source: http://www.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/wall_street
 
i realize that but generally its more of a spin. not blatant blowing of figures lol. whatever regardless of how big it was it was bad. perhaps not great depression bad but bad.
 
it was spun way out of porportion. at 17th place it shouldn't have been mentioned, it paints a far worse picture than it really is .............................. as evidenced by the increase today
 
i think papa mentioned it earlier, but is anyone else s gas cheap?

i filled up for 3.25! i almost spit my double cheeseburger out when i saw gas for that cheap.
 
yeah i saw something this morning. apparently with everyone becoming more and more concerned with money the demand is dropping. gas could drop as low as 60 bucks a barrel again.

does anyone remember when gas was like 99 cents a gallon at one point?
 
cheap compared to what? what it's been? perhaps, but it's still more expensive than in Moscow or Beijing
 
...is what any economist will tell you is a largely arbitrary number, as long as we are referring to national debt that is.
 
Because debt is partially an investment and the economy has weathered worse conditions in the past.

Anybody with historical data can find that we are not at an all time high for debt. Bear in mind that this is as a percentage of the gross domestic product (the money the country makes), which is far more important than the actual estimated dollar value of the debt.
 
my apologies, i don't mean to say i don't care that the prices are going down, it just feels disingenuous to call the lower prices 'cheap'
 
Russia has huge reserves, it supplies a great deal of oil to western Europe. Obviously its going to be cheaper there. Just like Venezuela, gas is really cheap (I think I read somewhere its like 80c a gallon, but that has partly to do as well with the shit economy under Chavez). China subsidizes their gas imports to keep prices lower.
 
here's my question then... what's changed between "back" when i was in high school and gas was 1.20 and now when its 3.30 it's not just inflation, shits gone awry, we invaded iraq, we were told we'd be getting cheap oil for that... the Iraqis had been getting 5c /gal, not sure what it is now.

We're still getting the shaft
 
we put so many taxes on gas that it rises the price like nobody's business, except it is people's business. even if the middle eastern countries we buy from decide not to rip us off, the taxes alone make the gas more expensive than it was when you were in high school. so much of the gas taxes is federal too. they make bank off our oil consumption.
 
http://rightchange.com/issue_tax4.php

check out this website, it does a pretty good job about how HIGH taxes are a bad thing.

Stanford University Economist, Michael Boskin: “History teaches

us that high taxes and protectionism are not conducive to a thriving

economy, the extreme case being the higher taxes and tariffs that

deepened the Great Depression. While such a policy mix would be a real

change, as philosophers remind us, change is not always progress.”

(“Obamanomics is a Recipe for Recession” The Wall Street Journal, July

29, 2008)

The Tax Foundation: “Among 30 industrialized nations, the United

States has the second highest corporate tax rate (39.3%) in the world.

As other nations gain on the US in the basic ingredients of economic

competitiveness, the imbalance in tax rates is becoming a bigger drag

on the US economy. (Tax Foundation)

take a look...

you are taxing the producers in out society.....

have you ever had a paycheck signed by a poor person?
 
also, why is everybody getting their info about a financial crisis from either cnn on one side or fox on the other? its called cnbc, entirely dedicated to finance. they put less of a spin on things.
 
Who is Michael Boskin?

More than just a professor, he's also a director of Exxon Mobile, and he's " sanguine about the transfer of U.S. manufacturing overseas.

While serving on the Council of Economic Advisors to President H.W.

Bush, he is quoted as saying 'It does not matter if the U.S. makes

computer chips or potato chips' "

you said that taxing the rich is taxing the 'producers' well imo they are the producers only insofar as they came up with initial ideas, but the majority of the production isn't coming from them. Perhaps in their early days they were producers, but then again, they also weren't filthy rich back then either.

We're in two completely different mind sets, apparently you seem to think that the engine is ready to go, that all is fine, we just need some more fuel to get things churning again.

Where as i see it as a fundamental breakdown of the system; our vehicle isn't just out of gas, it's straight broken.

I don't think that a socialist style taxation should be a permanent institution, rather it'd be used to 'undo' the corruption exhibited by the rich corporate leaders. I mean if you're stealing money through loop holes (which i've already mentioned which nullifies the 'highest corporate tax' claim since they effectlvly make the US the lowest place for corporate tax.) you're not really entitled to your riches, and i'm all for a robin-hoodesque plan for right now.

Once things have been 'set right' (when the middle class can start driving this country again, and that the poorest of the poor have established basic human rights -- god damn morality) then perhaps a flat tax could be passed

 
so lets get rid of corporate tax loop holes. O BTW, my grandpa is on the board of directors for a corporation, and the amount they pay in taxes is Atrocious..... but lets also have LOW taxes across the board, once this mess is figured out. but raising taxes now, bad idea.

second, did you know that 40million Americans pay no income tax? well they dont.

did you read the link? it had a ton of good information about the "white knight" known as BArack and taxes.

 
obama doesnt know what a debate is lol he agreed with mccain so many times, "i agree with senator mccain" i heard that a lot thats not what u do in a debate.
 
hahahaha nooooooooo

Democrats are sitting home watching things like debates on TV while Republicans are out doing other things.

Seriously....... it's funny because these polls on who won don't reflect who they asked.
 
actually they do. they said that more dems watched the debate which would explain the skew.

 
The only hope McCain has is if this bill passes and people then forget about it so he can start spewing bullshit again
 
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