Presidential Debate

then quite frankly, your an idiot. sure you get taxed more but its not like if you make 250 k you suddenly are gonna be in poverty because you lose so much. your still making more money....
 
Nothing makes you look more dumb than using the incorrect form of you're, except maybe calling someone else an idiot while you do it.
 
really? ouch.

Did you really build your self up from the ground up independent from the community around you, or is some credit due to the systems around you that allowed for your success?

It just seems so incredibly selfish for people to say "well everyone who's found themselves in impossibly tough times is due to their own sloth and ineptitude." The fact of the matter is that a whole ton of the American's who have hit on rough times is because they've been fucked over by the fat cats who only want to compound their wealth and run over the little guy.

In a game of poker it's alright to take all the chips, because when the chips run out, those who lost it all aren't going to suffer, but when it's everyone together, why does it all of a sudden become a war? The 'socialist' structure taxation isn't a permanent solution, it's a process to rebuild the middle class to make our country stronger as a whole.

Call me brainwashed by the liberal agenda, but it makes sense to say that paying the 'rich tax' is the patriotic thing to do.

We've gotta make sure that the rich can get as rich as they can provided the poorest of the poor aren't suffering from a lack of basic inalienable human rights.
 
While it's true people have been fucked over by the fat cats no one made them buy homes or cars they couldn't afford. To me it's more selfish to expect a handout, than to expect to keep what you earn.
 
If i buy a house, then i get laid off so that my job can be shipped over seas so that the CEO can make another billion dollars saved on cheep labor, how am I to be blamed for buying a house i couldn't afford.

It's not like someone at McDonnalds buying a 300k house that the couldn't afford in the first place, I'm willing to bet most of these people were assured at the time that it was a sound investment that they thought they could afford, and then the circumstances changed on them and all of a sudden they're the ones who take the fall.

 
You should have enough saved, or enough liquid assets to cover your bills for 6 months-year. If you are fired or laid off there is unemployment to help you along until you can find another job.

Sure the situation you described sucks, but if I got fired today, I'd find any work I could, and I know I'd be putting my car and my boat up for sale to help make mortgage payments until I could sell my house. Those are the things any respectable home owner would do in that situation.
 
"all of a sudden they're the ones who take the fall" it's not all of a sudden. the responsibility and liability is on them from the day they sign. You know that you have to make the payments or they'll take you house.
 
you have a job to make the payments, then you lose your job, not because you were a bad worker, but because you're an American worker, a worker with demands like health care, minimum wage etc...

you're going to blame the person who got laid off for not being able to make payments because some richy-rich wanted to pay less to some foreigner?

not to me.

It's not like the payments are done in a days time, so there were plenty of people who were making this sort of decision, and were paying their bills doing fine for a year or two, and then yes, all of a sudden, were hit with misfortune not of their own cause. resulting in the current situation.

 
My wisdom teeth didn't show on the xray when I was 18. It wasn't until I was 20 they showed.

Also, I am incredibly happy that I went to college. I am far better for it. Some people may regret their educations, I do not. Those loans I took were the only way for me to go to college and they were all the federal loans that everyone is offered. The one private loan I was able to get was only 1% higher in interest.
My parents didn't help me pay for school because they couldn't. Which Is why I was able to get so much financial aid. My expected family contribution after my 1st year was 0.

So quit being an ass, and stick to what you know.
 
why wouldn't a corporation do as much as they could to save money and optimize profits? If your job can so easily be outsourced you picked the wrong line of work.
 
word.

the 6% unemployment is nothing, there are tons of jobs out there. Nobody seems to want to work anymore and those that do and figure out a way to make some money get to subsidize the lazy. I am not say that there are exceptions but they are in a minority. Shit happens.

Flat tax - percentage of the dollar is the only way to be fair. actually individuals should pay the same amount, since each individual burdens the system proportionately by one person. But that wouldn't be fair now would it?

Seems to me that the middle class should be grateful that they aren't paying their fair share - that those who are in the higher tax brackets are actually funding-subsidizing those who aren't paying their "fair share" but noooooooo the middle class is the loudest about being taxed to death only because they are the majority, no that it is true.

Its like have to pay local school tax when you don't have any kids who attend the local school.

 
BTW - The 250k thing is true.

I have to let a guy go in November cause he is going to make more than 40k this year if he keeps working. He looses a lot of medical benefits if he makes over 40k.

Same thinking.. why should I make more if I don't necessarily need it and it is going to be taken away anyhow.

What is that proposed tax percentage jump over 250k vs 249,999 that Obama is proposing? someone want to to do the math on how much more over 250k a person will have to make before it equals the tax rate at 249?
 
cool, you've got something that will work in the future, but i don't think you can institute a flat tax as a fix can you?

flat tax once you resolve the collapse of the middle class.

just like after a hurricane you can't just have the street sweepers clean up, everyone's got to pitch in, even if it's not your mess, and then once things have been sorted out a bit you can resume general maintenance.

restore then maintain.

 
Poor, my mom makes 40,000 a year which isn't bad, but her treatment for MS costs 12,000 a year making her taxable income 28,000 a year.
 
is there any reason for him not to feel that way?

what is fair about my family loosing almost 50%! of our income to taxes?

its BAD here in MN REALLY BAD, 9% state income tax rate WTF?

o, for the "nay sayers", that 9% starts when you make 69k (last i saw)

i work for money, i keep money? novel idea i say.

 
Oh man fkn communist MN, when i lived in chicago, 3 months of income tax could pay for a year here in minnesota. and stupid sales taxes keep rising up slowly.
 
hahaha this is just one of those fundamental differences. i think, make your money keep your money, but some can go to help out the less fortunate.
 
o dont get me wrong, i am all for that....

but its not "giving" if the government takes its hand and shoves it down your pocket "GIVE MORE MONEY GOD DAMMIT" haha

"piitsy" did you know that I built a baseball stadium? i did it! woo! NOT!

but i did pay for it,

i, a student who stands to make 7-8k this year, is building a baseball stadium for millionaires to play in, and billionaires to own. WTF? haha

O BTW my rents do "GIVE" away money every year, i dont know the total amount, but i KNOW they give away FAR MORE than Joe Biden.

again, its a giving thing, not a taking thing....
 
Haha bro im paying for it too. Pisses me off, lets see the twins goto the world series RECENTLY and ill consider a new stadium. and whats with our teams selling all the GOOD players, garnet, santana, ugh
 
but realistically most people are selfish motherfuckers lol. so many would never give out a penny
 
haha do you live in MN? (specifically Hennepin county?)

i could really give a rats ass if they win the world series (as far as the stadium goes) (i obviously want them to win)

did you know that Polad stands to have the value of his "twinkies" DOUBLE with a new stadium, it is assanine that I AM PAYING FOR IT. o i think he gets the money from nameing rights also... its gonna be another "target park" isnt it?

its a matter of principal for me, i love Baseball, but this IMO is just plane WRONG.

 
It's actually not even about spelling, you're using the wrong word, every time you post you show how dumb you are.
 
but that is THEIR choice....

i will be 100% honest, i am no philanthropist, (at this point, i dont exactly have buttloads of extra money;)

but i can honestly tell you if i got that "stimulus" package, i would have donated 100% of it to charity..

the adoption agency my sister was adopted through, they do AMAZING work.

a local homeless shelter i have had the privilege of volunteering at....

 
dude, its teh internets likes OMG's ZOMG lol kthxbai, ttyl, imo, rofl, lamo.

ITS THE INTERNET.

o Ben is NOT dumb. if he is? then you should have no problem decimating his arguments..

for the record, dont even try, because i already have that on lockdown ;)

sorry ben

hehehe i had to:)
 
A flat tax favors the rich. A flat tax does not work. I cant understand these ultra conservative view points. We have already seen that there is no trickle down effect and free range capitalism leads to corruption and the failure of an entire economic system.

Look at Germany, Denmark, Norway etc. These countries have minute resources compared to the US and have an aggressive progressive tax laws and are the richest countries in the world.

Whatever you cant talk to people who refuse to think.

If you can seriously say that our country is better under Bush than Clinton then you have to tell me how you come to that conclusion. Anyway if McCain gets elected he will be a historic president. Because he will be the last president.
 
so you are with Joe Biden on that it is patriotic to pay more taxes?

how much is to much?

when are high taxes enough?

o better look into the corporate income tax rates here in America... THEY ARE HIGH.

i also know when our economy is churning we piss on countries like Germany and Denmark... (economically speaking of course)

 
our economy hasn't been churning in 8 years.

And we might "piss" on smaller countries but the EU dominates us.

And with a decent accounting department loopholes allow corporations to pay a lower effective tax rate.

Small government big business might work on paper, but as we have seen in the last 8 years it does not work in practice.

 
we have not been in a period of small government though....

GW is not a small government person, and neither are the majority of out leaders in congress.
 
Q: How high is too much?

A: When the poorest of the poor have what i'd call 'basic human rights' (think what the swedes get from their government)

Q: Corporate tax is super high in America!

A: But Corporate tax is full of loop holes effectively creating one of the cheapest places to have a corporation

Q: Germany and Denmark are urinals?

A:I don't think so, I'm pretty sure they're legitimate sovereign nations each filled with a history of prosperity and destitution throughout time.

 
we can agree on that. But can you also say that the lack of government regulation caused the current economic problems? We might have a big government now but most of its resources are concentrated in defense and spying on its own citizens.
 
youve got to be kidding me?

almost EVERYONE agrees that it was the actions of government OVER regulation that got us in this mess... (or atleast had a huge hand in it) (fanny, freddi, the mortgage industry as a whole)

i dont like the patriot act, but even Obama voted for the extension, i think the only major candidate that didnt was ron paul.
 
thrived for a while. but do you remember how tech stocks tanked with the whole judge thomas jackson's ruling on microsoft? followed by the entire tech bubble burst?
 
i know you cant take my word, and i cant show you a source...... i was watching a PBS documentary on the Bush and clintion years, and even they admitted that 40% of the Clinton boom was due in part to bush. (Bush SR)

Clinton also had a faulty housing industry thumping allong, and a "dot com" bubble under his admin...

lets face it, Microsoft goes main stream under your admin, you are going to come out looking good...
 
i mean no president can perfectly manage the economy, and the tech bubble was bound to burst eventually. but when it did it didnt put us in the same position we are now, a fucking disaster.
 
id be interested to see that (not calling you out sarcastically i really would)

but a large part of it (60% according to your figures) was due to him. And the housing market was fine under him.
 
Besides the fact that during the Clinton administration they put "affirmative action" lending into practice. Put in place guidelines that allowed banks to extend loans to minorities on welfare and unemployment, since the banks were forced to recognize welfare and unemployment checks as income. I'm not putting this on entirely on Clinton by any means, because this problem is far too complex to point the finger in any one direction. But to make the statement that the economy was strong because of Clinton is absolutely ludicrous. It was entirely coincidental, Clinton arguably had the easiest ride of any US president in history. Obviously the housing market was fine under him, just as it was under Bush till around 06, but it was during the Clinton years that this problem began.

 
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