Preserving Snow?

qyleberry

qyleberry

Member
I went to Walmart yesterday and shoveled a snow pile into a garbage can and put it into my car...

We have not had snow for probably 3 weeks so it was a shock there was snow there...

As I shoveled I noticed there was just an outside layer of dirt, the snow was clean as you dug in...

I brought it back to my house and skied, as seen in the picture....

799927


Then the next day after school the in-run melted, but the jump looked like someone just through sand all over it...

So what I am asking is, does dirt preserve snow?

I have also seen park crew throwing stuff on jumps and stuff... What is that? Does that help preserve the snow?

I tried google and I couldn't really fine anything so Does anyone know?
 
Sorry for the spelling errors... and the park crew was throwing some kind of salt or salt looking material on the jumps
 
Its rock salt. Park crews do use it to preserve jumps and lips when its warm and slushy out. But be careful, it probably won't help on your setup when you have hardly any snow. Salt actually melts snow, which is why people throw it down on their driveways and plow crews throw it down on highways and roads for de-icing (i.e. road salt). How it works on jumps though is it melts the very top layer of snow creating a film or thin layer of water over the jump. As I'm sure you know, slushy or old snow is essentially just small kernels of ice. So the salt causes the top layer of snow melt over what is essentially a bunch of tiny pieces of ice. The film or layer of water fills in all the gaps between the tiny pieces of ice and quickly freezes and adheres into a harder layer that makes the snow more durable and therefore last longer. This takes a few minutes to happen, which is why park crew stands around for a few minutes after salting jumps before letting anybody hit them. It also only lasts a few hours at best, especially if its really hot out.

And theres your snow science lesson for the day :)
 
13575993:powderwhor said:
Its rock salt. Park crews do use it to preserve jumps and lips when its warm and slushy out. But be careful, it probably won't help on your setup when you have hardly any snow. Salt actually melts snow, which is why people throw it down on their driveways and plow crews throw it down on highways and roads for de-icing (i.e. road salt). How it works on jumps though is it melts the very top layer of snow creating a film or thin layer of water over the jump. As I'm sure you know, slushy or old snow is essentially just small kernels of ice. So the salt causes the top layer of snow melt over what is essentially a bunch of tiny pieces of ice. The film or layer of water fills in all the gaps between the tiny pieces of ice and quickly freezes and adheres into a harder layer that makes the snow more durable and therefore last longer. This takes a few minutes to happen, which is why park crew stands around for a few minutes after salting jumps before letting anybody hit them. It also only lasts a few hours at best, especially if its really hot out.

And theres your snow science lesson for the day :)
Click to expand...

Thank you that helps a lot, +k to you
 
13575993:powderwhor said:
Its rock salt. Park crews do use it to preserve jumps and lips when its warm and slushy out. But be careful, it probably won't help on your setup when you have hardly any snow. Salt actually melts snow, which is why people throw it down on their driveways and plow crews throw it down on highways and roads for de-icing (i.e. road salt). How it works on jumps though is it melts the very top layer of snow creating a film or thin layer of water over the jump. As I'm sure you know, slushy or old snow is essentially just small kernels of ice. So the salt causes the top layer of snow melt over what is essentially a bunch of tiny pieces of ice. The film or layer of water fills in all the gaps between the tiny pieces of ice and quickly freezes and adheres into a harder layer that makes the snow more durable and therefore last longer. This takes a few minutes to happen, which is why park crew stands around for a few minutes after salting jumps before letting anybody hit them. It also only lasts a few hours at best, especially if its really hot out.

And theres your snow science lesson for the day :)
Click to expand...

Thanks, I couldn't remember it was called rock salt. Also, rock salt is just normal salt that hasn't been treated to remove impurities like table salt has. Just thought I'd mention 'cause I was curious if there is any difference.
 
13581627:Aharrelson358 said:
http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/solutions/faq/why-salt-cools-icewater.shtml

Thought it it would be faster to find a site than typing it all out. Here's a quick idea as to how salt preserves snow.
Click to expand...

So if you put salt on the snow it will melt it a little, but preserve the rest? Or is that wrong?
 
Adding ice salt to the top of snow that is 1 meter thick actually makes the surface harder because the snow that is below the surface is colder than the saltwater freezing point. What I mean is, once the surface needs a freezing point of -5C to freeze, that extra amount of cold comes from the snow below which may be at -10C. Although the air is 10C, the snow and ice below the surface keeps the top layer of snow/ice colder than the 0C it would normally be.

Just because water freezes at 0C doesn't mean it can't be colder than 0C, which is why the snow below allows all of this to happen.

To give one more example, if there were 0.5 meters of snow on road, it would actually be worse to put ice salt down because the top layer would become colder. That is why roads need to be plowed before salt is distributed.
 
13581745:Aharrelson358 said:
Adding ice salt to the top of snow that is 1 meter thick actually makes the surface harder because the snow that is below the surface is colder than the saltwater freezing point. What I mean is, once the surface needs a freezing point of -5C to freeze, that extra amount of cold comes from the snow below which may be at -10C. Although the air is 10C, the snow and ice below the surface keeps the top layer of snow/ice colder than the 0C it would normally be.

Just because water freezes at 0C doesn't mean it can't be colder than 0C, which is why the snow below allows all of this to happen.

To give one more example, if there were 0.5 meters of snow on road, it would actually be worse to put ice salt down because the top layer would become colder. That is why roads need to be plowed before salt is distributed.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the info! +k if you care about it haha
 
13583023:Slush said:
Two words

ice rink. Infinite snow
Click to expand...

Yea nearest one is 20 min away, but I would have to make many trips because I don't have a truck. The ice rinks by me let their snow melt inside, they don't put it outside so they don't have a pile out back like most do
 
13575993:powderwhor said:
Its rock salt. Park crews do use it

And theres your snow science lesson for the day :)
Click to expand...

13581504:E-Bracht said:
Thanks, I couldn't remember it was called rock salt. Also, rock salt is just normal salt that hasn't been treated to remove impurities like table salt has. Just thought I'd mention 'cause I was curious if there is any difference.
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, the 'rock salt' that is used in terrain parks today, is specific. Its called Granulated Urea, which is a mixture of chemical salts and horse piss. You can find in your girls 'moroccan, argon oil' shampoos.

The reason for Urea, is it spreads rather than sinks, Freezing a smaller layer, preserving more snow that lies underneath. You will find when you use regular rock salt, The chunks will 'burn' their way to the bottom.
 
13583427:Earl_Globz said:
Believe it or not, the 'rock salt' that is used in terrain parks today, is specific. Its called Granulated Urea, which is a mixture of chemical salts and horse piss. You can find in your girls 'moroccan, argon oil' shampoos.

The reason for Urea, is it spreads rather than sinks, Freezing a smaller layer, preserving more snow that lies underneath. You will find when you use regular rock salt, The chunks will 'burn' their way to the bottom.
Click to expand...

This also helped a lot! Thanks!
 
NOT DIRT darker colors absorb more heat ever wear a black shirt in the sun if you have you know. The thrown stuff you see is salt it melts snow then the excess water from that freezes and hardens it. The best way is to preserve it is together in big piles keep it clean and little surface area and cover it with a SOLID tarp that won't get light through it
 
13585318:Deepskier said:
NOT DIRT darker colors absorb more heat ever wear a black shirt in the sun if you have you know. The thrown stuff you see is salt it melts snow then the excess water from that freezes and hardens it. The best way is to preserve it is together in big piles keep it clean and little surface area and cover it with a SOLID tarp that won't get light through it
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying, but snow piles soak dirt up and gain a layer all over and they don't melt... I guess I just feel dirt preserves snow

Now I'm not planning on throwing dirt on snow piles haha
 
13585375:qyleberry said:
I understand what you are saying, but snow piles soak dirt up and gain a layer all over and they don't melt... I guess I just feel dirt preserves snow

Now I'm not planning on throwing dirt on snow piles haha
Click to expand...

yeah I get it but have you ever seen a leaf sink into the snow because its darker/hotter
 
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