They're also not that great of jeans, the cut works well for a lot of people but the denim and hardware isn't anything special if it's being compared to good jeans. Like the old 5eps and Skulls being made 5 years ago (new Skulls suck, apparently; pro tip) were so damned satisfying to wear because the quality of the materials and workmanship was so apparent. APCs it's like, okay, this is fine, it's not blowing any minds but I can wear this without feeling like I'm wearing complete crap (mall brands).