Possible law suit: REI set DIN's incorrectly, only signed off on front DIN's

C

crayolaguy

New member
Hello community, I come with quite the slander on REI... Pre-season I had my bindings remounted for my new smaller boots and had requested my DIN's be set to 7 on my Tyroila Attack 12's. When I was grabbing my skis, I signed off that they had correctly been set to DIN's of 7, but I was only presented with the front DIN's, and didn't think to check the back ones too, as I figured they were competent to set them both to 7. Fast forward to 12 weeks ago, I tore my MCL skiing after my right ski caught an edge after landing a fat air. Big bummer on the season. Fast forward again to 3 days ago on Friday, I was finally going skiing again and wanted to lower my DIN on just my right bindings to protect that knee a little more. The front was correctly set to 7, however, the back of the bindings had a DIN set to 9! Both of them! I have not touched them since the shop originally set them this way, so I am currently outraged, I set both the back DIN's to 7. Now I am wondering what I should do, there is a high likelihood that REI's incompetence is the reason I tore my MCL or at least contributed to it. Yes, I signed off on their waiver after checking the front DIN's but not the back DIN's.

What should I do here? Try and get some under-the-table compensation? Is it worth a try? Threaten a lawsuit? Has anyone had any similar experiences?

I have attached an image of the DIN's before I set them correctly myself. It is easy to confuse the 7 and the 9 on the back binding as you can see.
 
I doubt you tore your MCL because your back dins were on 9. A lawsuit is likely going to fail, REI certainly has a team of lawyers that will be better than yours, it will cost you thousands of dollars and you'll just be another person who thinks you should sue someone for your own problem.

**This post was edited on Apr 25th 2022 at 3:31:45pm
 
14430280:eheath said:
I doubt you tore your MCL because your back dins were on 9. A lawsuit is likely going to fail, REI certainly has a team of lawyers that will be better than yours, it will cost you thousands of dollars and you'll just be another person who thinks you should sue someone for your own problem.

**This post was edited on Apr 25th 2022 at 3:31:45pm
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Yeah sure, to be honest I would never go the lawsuit route. We will never know if the back DIN’s tore my MCL or not, but I believe companies need to be held responsible for their negligence and lack of competence. Do you disagree?
 
Yes and no. How hard do you want to fight for your compensation? If you're willing to be a absolute dick to get what you want I'd say no you probably should try to forgive. But if

you want to just bring it up to the company so hopefully they will be more careful next time to save someone else acl. And be nice about it and ask for money for your surgery I'd say yeah.
 
14430281:crayolaguy said:
Yeah sure, to be honest I would never go the lawsuit route. We will never know if the back DIN’s tore my MCL or not, but I believe companies need to be held responsible for their negligence and lack of competence. Do you disagree?
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Honestly it's your own fault for not checking your gear, mounting your skis at REI your first mistake, your ignorance is part of this equation as well...
 
14430282:Lippamani said:
Yes and no. How hard do you want to fight for your compensation? If you're willing to be a absolute dick to get what you want I'd say no you probably should try to forgive. But if

you want to just bring it up to the company so hopefully they will be more careful next time to save someone else acl. And be nice about it and ask for money for your surgery I'd say yeah.
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You're dumber than this guy looks if you think REI is gonna give him money for his surgery.
 
Also think of your skis as a tool, if you don't maintince it regularly something is going to break so yeah I'd say this is on you
 
14430284:eheath said:
Honestly it's your own fault for not checking your gear, mounting your skis at REI your first mistake, your ignorance is part of this equation as well...
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Sitting on your high chair and talking down to others must give you lots of joy. Good for you. Instead of offering real advice and using the extensive knowledge it sounds like you have, you decide to just bash on others for ignorance and mistakes. I’m going to leave the thread open to others offering some real guidance and advice, and would prefer you don’t respond if you aren’t here to help. Thank you.
 
14430289:Lippamani said:
Also think of your skis as a tool, if you don't maintince it regularly something is going to break so yeah I'd say this is on you
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Live and learn, thank you for a civil response.
 
14430294:crayolaguy said:
Sitting on your high chair and talking down to others must give you lots of joy. Good for you. Instead of offering real advice and using the extensive knowledge it sounds like you have, you decide to just bash on others for ignorance and mistakes. I’m going to leave the thread open to others offering some real guidance and advice, and would prefer you don’t respond if you aren’t here to help. Thank you.
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Lol dude if you think im being entitled idk what to tell you
 
The only slander I have against rei is they waxed the top sheets to my on3ps (I asked for an edge sharpening and waxing) and they acted like I was the dumb one in the situation, “Sir you asked for a ski wax. We waxed your skis”
 
14430294:crayolaguy said:
Sitting on your high chair and talking down to others must give you lots of joy. Good for you. Instead of offering real advice and using the extensive knowledge it sounds like you have, you decide to just bash on others for ignorance and mistakes. I’m going to leave the thread open to others offering some real guidance and advice, and would prefer you don’t respond if you aren’t here to help. Thank you.
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my g, eheath is the punching bag of this site, he just tells it how it is. The only thing you're going to see if you take this to REI is a 15% off coupon for carabiners and some stickers. If you have social media influencer clout then you can leverage that and prob get a lot more
 
14430314:Mackaroni_space said:
The only slander I have against rei is they waxed the top sheets to my on3ps (I asked for an edge sharpening and waxing) and they acted like I was the dumb one in the situation, “Sir you asked for a ski wax. We waxed your skis”
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Lol wtf!
 
Don't listen to anyone in this thread. None of them are lawyers and should not be giving you advice on this. Consults with most attorneys are relatively inexpensive (under one hour of their time) and you will get a real answer. Do that if you are actually interested.
 
14430314:Mackaroni_space said:
The only slander I have against rei is they waxed the top sheets to my on3ps (I asked for an edge sharpening and waxing) and they acted like I was the dumb one in the situation, “Sir you asked for a ski wax. We waxed your skis”
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If a dude with jets come in to my shop, id do the same. Drip that wax and scrape the fuck out of the top sheet.
 
It is your fault. You signed the paper saying they were set correctly. It is your fault you thought they were competent enough to set the bindings correctly. This case would be dismissed so fast. It’s a waste of your money, your lawyer’s time, and government resources. Just please don’t take this to court.
 
14430281:crayolaguy said:
Yeah sure, to be honest I would never go the lawsuit route. We will never know if the back DIN’s tore my MCL or not, but I believe companies need to be held responsible for their negligence and lack of competence. Do you disagree?
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If you want a company to be held responsible for what you perceive as their negligence, the best way to do that is to make sure they never get your business ever again. Unfortunately there's not realistically a massive payday here or justice to the people moment. Also the difference between 2 din settings on your heel pieces is highly unlikely to have been the difference between being ok and tearing your MCL.
 
Sorry, signing a waiver for this means you likely have zero case here. Even if you didn't, though, bindings are far from perfect and I'm willing to speculate you would still be missing an MCL with a DIN of 7. Heal up fast.
 
14430331:BrokenBones said:
Don't listen to anyone in this thread. None of them are lawyers and should not be giving you advice on this. Consults with most attorneys are relatively inexpensive (under one hour of their time) and you will get a real answer. Do that if you are actually interested.
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Lmao he signed a waiver saying they were correct. No chance there’s a case, and he’s have to prove they set the wrong, pics months later don’t prove shit “beyond a reasonable doubt”
 
You signed the paper saying they were correct.

Plus, I saw you in the parking lot turning up the DIN in the heels, even though you said you didn't know what you were doing. Gonna be hard to explain that one to a jury.
 
Looks like the tech made a mistake, but that happens sometimes. You made a mistake as well, since you should've checked all the dins. I don't blame you for doing that cuz we all make mistakes, but I don't think you have much of a case here since you signed that waiver. I reckon your best bet would be to go back and to politely explain what happened. If the person youre dealing with has any business sense then they should try to make it right, because it would be cheaper than losing a repeat customer (although maybe they've lost your business already, idk). Hopefully they can give you a good discount on some gear but idk what store policies are like cuz I've never worked in a store or had to deal with this sort of thing.

Anyway, sorry to hear about your injury, and I hope you have a successful recovery
 
Regarding the cause of the injury I'd have to agree with eheath and schoess. I doubt a difference of two was the deciding factor but then again what do I know
 
Is it really common for people to not set their own dins? There's online calculators if you don't know where you're roughly at and all you need is a screw driver. If you prerelease go up in small increments. Do most of you really pay someone to do that for you?
 
14430620:r00kie said:
Is it really common for people to not set their own dins? There's online calculators if you don't know where you're roughly at and all you need is a screw driver. If you prerelease go up in small increments. Do most of you really pay someone to do that for you?
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No, they just do it when they mount the bindings, I set them on my own, unless I need a full remount.
 
14430678:crayolaguy said:
No, they just do it when they mount the bindings, I set them on my own, unless I need a full remount.
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If you have decent mechanical/carpentry skills you should mount your own bindings too. You can typically find the binding patterns pretty easily online and print out templates. Then you just adjust forward pressure, AFD height (if applicable), and DINs. If you really want, you can bring your boots/bindings to a shop and have them test the release as well.

If you don't trust yourself to do this you can always have a shop do it, its just easier than a lot of people might think.
 
14430401:Graham0596 said:
Lmao he signed a waiver saying they were correct. No chance there’s a case, and he’s have to prove they set the wrong, pics months later don’t prove shit “beyond a reasonable doubt”
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I agree it isn't a winnable case, but civil lawsuits don't have the same burden of proof as criminal cases, 'beyond a reasonable doubt,' just fyi. Don't skip class ;)
 
14430685:IsaacNW82 said:
If you have decent mechanical/carpentry skills you should mount your own bindings too. You can typically find the binding patterns pretty easily online and print out templates. Then you just adjust forward pressure, AFD height (if applicable), and DINs. If you really want, you can bring your boots/bindings to a shop and have them test the release as well.

If you don't trust yourself to do this you can always have a shop do it, its just easier than a lot of people might think.
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Yeah, thank you. Mostly I'd say it's a lack of the right tools, cheaper for me to pay someone else than for me to buy tools, (at least in the short run). I'll ask my friends next time though for tools.
 
Bro for real tho if you don't have one drill bit one drill and 1 maybe 2 screwdrivers depending on the bindings wtf. Like you Don't even need a tape measure I've eyeballed the last 3 pairs I've mounted.

14430688:crayolaguy said:
Yeah, thank you. Mostly I'd say it's a lack of the right tools, cheaper for me to pay someone else than for me to buy tools, (at least in the short run). I'll ask my friends next time though for tools.
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Imagine knowing how to set your own DIN but not doing it because you blindly trust REI. REI did fuck up but at the end of the day you know how to check a DIN, how to adjust a DIN, and you knew that when you signed off on the adjustment without looking.

The whole reason they do the signature that way is so that if there is a mistake, the customer has a chance to spot it. Even good techs make mistakes once in a while. You adjust 20 bindings or more a day over the course of years, well even if you only get it wrong 0.1% of the time, its going to happen sooner or later. Also, at the shop where I worked, you had to test a binding after you mounted it. Sometimes if it tested low you could raise the DIN by a half or 1 to get it to test in the proper range. Not sure what REI's policy regarding this is.
 
14430444:Mackaroni_space said:
The things I’d do to a man if they messed up my jets man I stg
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What? Take a rip off of your juul, charge up your vx1000, "stall" on a picnic table and then fucking cry about other skiers clothes?
 
Also op is dumb and this is a dumb fucking thread. Go pay a lawyer to tell you that this is a dumb fucking idea if you don't believe anyone here.
 
First off, go talk to a lawyer. They'll be the ones to tell you if your waiver you signed can be disputed. To all the retards below, waivers aren't an end all be all. It's just a fancy way of preventing you simpletons from getting a fancy lawyer to sue and win. The ethics of this are another discussion.

But maybe [tag=106028]@pt_skier[/tag] or [tag=80388]@Sharko[/tag] can comment on the mechanism. Heel binding releases vertically only. This would not prevent mechanisms causing MCL injury from the fall you described?

14430281:crayolaguy said:
Yeah sure, to be honest I would never go the lawsuit route. We will never know if the back DIN’s tore my MCL or not, but I believe companies need to be held responsible for their negligence and lack of competence. Do you disagree?
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So maybe, maybe not. Seen plenty of lawsuits in the news that even though the winners were clearly in the wrong, they won because of something stupid like what you're describing. But you have no proof so talk to a fucking lawyer. They're usually cheap or free for an evaluation.

14430284:eheath said:
Honestly it's your own fault for not checking your gear, mounting your skis at REI your first mistake, your ignorance is part of this equation as well...
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If "knowing better" meant anything, hot coffee wouldn't have created a millionaire.
 
14430821:HypeBeast said:
If "knowing better" meant anything, hot coffee wouldn't have created a millionaire.
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Thats a huge stretch dude haha this guy literally signed a waiver, you dont sign a waiver at mcdonalds.
 
14430824:eheath said:
Thats a huge stretch dude haha this guy literally signed a waiver, you dont sign a waiver at mcdonalds.
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Yeah he really needs to find a personal injury lawyer cuz the waiver specifics are what matters....and how good his lawyer is matters. Might get lucky and get a settlement versus going to court and probably losing.
 
14430832:HypeBeast said:
Yeah he really needs to find a personal injury lawyer cuz the waiver specifics are what matters....and how good his lawyer is matters. Might get lucky and get a settlement versus going to court and probably losing.
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You're fucking high if you think this dude has a case man haha
 
If "knowing better" meant anything, hot coffee wouldn't have created a millionaire.[/quote]

That case was actually legit, look up the case and her burns. Also she was originally just asking for them to pay her medical bills and it escalated cause they were being dicks
 
14430821:HypeBeast said:
If "knowing better" meant anything, hot coffee wouldn't have created a millionaire.
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i think people should read the details of that case before referencing it as a frivolous lawsuit

that woman got insane 3rd degree burns on her groin and legs and had a very serious hospital stay. she asked for just her expenses, mcd's said get fucked, so she got a lawyer and sued them big time and won. they found that mcd's was heating coffee up to a temp that the mcd's quality control head admitted would burn your mouth and throat if you drank it immediately, and it turned out there were hundreds of other people who had been injured by it

court found mcd's 80% responsible, woman 20% responsible. this was not some lady trying to pull a fast one on someone, she got ruined by that shit and didn't even start out wanting more than what she paid for medical expenses etc
 
What do you mean you "were only presented with the front DINs"?

Was the waiver you signed for all the DINs? The way you wrote this is vague.

Lots of incredibly shitty advice in this thread. The issue is not whether REI was negligent. They clearly were if what you say is correct, and your contributory negligence does not change that. Your problem is proving the DINs were set incorrectly, and then proving that but-for the DINs being set incorrectly you would not have suffered the injury you did.
 
14431057:Chunder_Khat said:
What do you mean you "were only presented with the front DINs"?

Was the waiver you signed for all the DINs? The way you wrote this is vague.

Lots of incredibly shitty advice in this thread. The issue is not whether REI was negligent. They clearly were if what you say is correct, and your contributory negligence does not change that. Your problem is proving the DINs were set incorrectly, and then proving that but-for the DINs being set incorrectly you would not have suffered the injury you did.
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America is so litigious its insane. He knew how to check his DIN. He knew how to adjust his DIN. The tech gave him a chance to look at his own DIN. He chose not to do any of these things. REI may have fucked up but it's impossible to prove that, and you can't know that that caused the injury. Especially because the heel piece controls forward release, not twist release. You might get a tiny settlement out of it if you're lucky, but it won't be worth your time, and it contributes to a shitty situation that the ski industry has.

This instinct to sue every time something goes wrong is a real problem in skiing. It's why a lot of shops refuse to let you use their screwdrivers, you often need to pay to have your bindings checked just to slightly adjust the DIN, forward pressure or toe height. I probably spent just as much time dealing with liability issues than I did actually working on equipment once I started managing the shop I was at. It's so frustrating to have a customer fill out all their info, take off their boot, adjust the binding, test the binding (usually takes like 5-10 minutes) have them sign for the adjustment, then charge them (40$ at my shop), when all they wanted was to turn the DIN from 8 to 8.5.

One customer will chew you out for not letting them borrow a screw driver to adjust their own bindings, and the next one will insist that it's your fault that they popped out too early when their binding was set by the book. Sometimes people will lie about their physical information (height weight and age) and get salty about their bindings not doing what they wanted. You know how awkward it is to double check someone's weight when they claim to be 145lbs and they clearly weight 180lb+? Or their age when they claim to be 39, but are clearly over 50? The number of times I hear "well I don't want to pop out too easily, but if I crash then they have to. I don't trust the chart so where should I put it?" As if I'm some wizard that can magically know exactly where to set someone's binding just by looking at them. Then someone will bring in a binding that tests poorly, you tell them, and they're mad at you when you tell them that you can't continue to work on their broken binding. Then someone will bring in a touring boot on a binding that doesn't accommodate that sole, and get mad that you won't set up their binding "I've done it like this for years ok I'm not going to sue you!" But if they get hurt they absolutely will. There is no winning.

The point is, there are 3-4 adjustment screws on most alpine bindings. Thats it. If you know how you want your binding set, then its really not that hard to set it yourself, especially if you're an experienced skier. This instinct to have the shop do everything, then sue instead of taking responsibility for your own equipment; it drives up costs, wait times, and infringes on the potential "bro favors" that shops can provide. People are so quick to label shop techs as incompetent but they are completely unwilling to learn how to work on their own equipment. People would rather act like petulant victims, and it gets old. Not to mention, a first year shop tech routinely makes less than a fast food worker, yet they can be individually sued (along with the shop) if they set something wrong.

Legally, I get the whole shop obligation and negligence and blah blah blah. But it does get old spending so much time keeping the lawyers and insurance companies happy, instead of helping the customer.
 
14431042:mayslay said:
Once saw a tech at REI knock over the ski rack holding all of the skis waiting to get mounted
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Right because an individual moment of clumsiness means an entire corporation is incompetent. Seriously you've never dropped something or knocked something over at work?
 
14431152:wasatch_rat said:
America is so litigious its insane. He knew how to check his DIN. He knew how to adjust his DIN. The tech gave him a chance to look at his own DIN. He chose not to do any of these things. REI may have fucked up but it's impossible to prove that, and you can't know that that caused the injury. Especially because the heel piece controls forward release, not twist release. You might get a tiny settlement out of it if you're lucky, but it won't be worth your time, and it contributes to a shitty situation that the ski industry has.

This instinct to sue every time something goes wrong is a real problem in skiing. It's why a lot of shops refuse to let you use their screwdrivers, you often need to pay to have your bindings checked just to slightly adjust the DIN, forward pressure or toe height. I probably spent just as much time dealing with liability issues than I did actually working on equipment once I started managing the shop I was at. It's so frustrating to have a customer fill out all their info, take off their boot, adjust the binding, test the binding (usually takes like 5-10 minutes) have them sign for the adjustment, then charge them (40$ at my shop), when all they wanted was to turn the DIN from 8 to 8.5.

One customer will chew you out for not letting them borrow a screw driver to adjust their own bindings, and the next one will insist that it's your fault that they popped out too early when their binding was set by the book. Sometimes people will lie about their physical information (height weight and age) and get salty about their bindings not doing what they wanted. You know how awkward it is to double check someone's weight when they claim to be 145lbs and they clearly weight 180lb+? Or their age when they claim to be 39, but are clearly over 50? The number of times I hear "well I don't want to pop out too easily, but if I crash then they have to. I don't trust the chart so where should I put it?" As if I'm some wizard that can magically know exactly where to set someone's binding just by looking at them. Then someone will bring in a binding that tests poorly, you tell them, and they're mad at you when you tell them that you can't continue to work on their broken binding. Then someone will bring in a touring boot on a binding that doesn't accommodate that sole, and get mad that you won't set up their binding "I've done it like this for years ok I'm not going to sue you!" But if they get hurt they absolutely will. There is no winning.

The point is, there are 3-4 adjustment screws on most alpine bindings. Thats it. If you know how you want your binding set, then its really not that hard to set it yourself, especially if you're an experienced skier. This instinct to have the shop do everything, then sue instead of taking responsibility for your own equipment; it drives up costs, wait times, and infringes on the potential "bro favors" that shops can provide. People are so quick to label shop techs as incompetent but they are completely unwilling to learn how to work on their own equipment. People would rather act like petulant victims, and it gets old. Not to mention, a first year shop tech routinely makes less than a fast food worker, yet they can be individually sued (along with the shop) if they set something wrong.

Legally, I get the whole shop obligation and negligence and blah blah blah. But it does get old spending so much time keeping the lawyers and insurance companies happy, instead of helping the customer.
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This shit happens in all places, not just ski shops.

it is very annoying too as a customer, it takes forever to have a shop mount your skis or if you break something on the hill and need a quick fix (such as taking mangled edge out or replacing a binding part) because there’s this sleeve ball wearing probably 8k in gear saying that the ski isn’t turning well, like dude cmon you’re a beginner, better gear will not make you ski better.
 
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