PETITION: KEEP TOBACCO OUT OF SKIING

advertising tobacco doesnt harm anyones health nor does it impact finances, choosing to use does that. i see ads all the time and my health is great and my finances go unscathed. you guys are really making this a bigger deal than it needs to be, if you dont like it, sweet, the best way to show freeskier you object to their practices is to stop ordering the magazine. simple as that. im far from being in support of smoking but i certainly know that im not going to try and impose my will on anyone like what the 'anti smoking add' people in this thread are doing. do as you please to yourself, but mind your own fuckin business. if a kid chooses to smoke, thats his choice, not yours. the minute you try to impose your will/beliefs/morals and values upon someone is the minute you have crossed the line.

as for the folks who dont like 2nd hand smoke, have you ever sacked up and asked them politely to stop? probably not, so shut the fuck up about that because you obviously care far more about offending a stranger than your own health.

in short, if you dont like the adds dont buy the magazine. other than that you should mind your own p's and q's and let others do as they choose.

 
If GeneralT are fully compliant with the aforementioned Master Settlement Agreement (MSA), they would not be advertising in Freeskier or in this genre of our sport, period.

If someone really wanted to, I bet they could sue the crap out of General T for violating this MSA and cash out.
 
Rationalise it all you like, the advertising of tobacco in a mainstream skiing publication is akin to a direct endorsement of it by the publishers and the skiing community, and people who are more impressionable than you are victims of that. By influencing these people, the presence of advertising is culpable.

I'm not going to tell people to stop smoking (unless it's getting in my face), but I am going to protest against people making out that advertising it like it's a 'cool lifestyle choice' is OK. Smoking and tobacco have absolutely nothing to do with skiing, and it should stay that way.
 
earlier you didnt say anything about tellin "inconsiderate smokers" how

they are encroaching on your personal bubble with their smoke so im

calling BS on that. do you honestly think you are going to accomplish

anything by bitching about it in a thread on NS? as for the whole "it

has nothing to do with skiing" thats the lamest fuckin excuse i have

ever heard. you dont seem to have a problem with nike, mt. dew, energy

drinks, VZW, Wendys, playstation, toyota...i think you get the point.

you sure as hell better start saving the young tortured misguided souls

from wendys just as you are doing for tobacco, because we all know how

good fast food is for ya. cell phones? not in my sport, they might cause

brain cancer? please oh chosen one, lead the children to the light and

away from the wretched sin that is tobacco. hallelujah

really guys? tobacco? this is really what you think is worth stepping up

to the plate for? there totally arent registered sex offenders living

close to you or anything. nope, tobacco in freesking is the thing to be a martyr for.

personal responsibility apparently doesnt really matter anymore since

folks like you will just make peoples decisions for them

again, in short, mind your own fuckin business. im sure you respect people not telling you how to live your life, so i (along with most everyone) would expect the same gratuity in return
 
Stop trying to pull the debate off track, you're not fooling anyone. The issue is the advertising of tobacco, a cancer-causing and addictive drug, in Freeskier, a mainstream media skiing publication with a young audience. We're not talking about Wendy's.

Again, I'm not telling anyone to stop smoking. Read this carefully, it's important. I don't give a shit if you smoke or not. I won't make moral judgements against you. All I ask is that you don't smoke sitting next to me on the chairlift. The advertising of smoking to a young audience, which is clearly attempting to feed off the increasing popularity of newschool skiing, is the issue.

Every product has its downsides. The directly observable negative effects of tobacco are greater than most other widely-available commercial products. You can't say 'advertising tobacco is OK because advertising Toyota is OK'. That just doesn't follow. If you can't see a moral difference between advertising a car, which is a useful piece of equipment (despite potential environmental issues and probably an inflated price tag) and advertising little toxic sticks which give you cancer and help you fit in with the 'cool kids', then that's pretty appalling.

The point with tobacco is that it hasn't had a substantial advertising presence in skiing before, and it's best to stop these things before they get started. I don't deny that advertising fast food or alcohol at skiing events is also a negative influence, but try arguing against that, because I'm not going to bother.

And I disagree, I think having debates on this issue on NS raises awareness and makes people actually think about the problems of tobacco advertising rather than just looking at the dollar signs.

Just to reiterate, I don't care if you, personally, smoke or not. Anyone who smokes, keep going, fine by me. They're not my lungs (unless you're standing next to me when you light up). I'm not moralising against you here. I don't care if you start smoking, having made a decision which weighs all the facts against each other. It's kids who start because their friends do it, and because they see adverts in their favourite magazines that make them think it's cool that are the issue.
 
Interesting thread.
I know a skier who earlier this season was offered a considerable amount to ride for general snus, and all that was required of him was to display a small sticker on his ski. He felt uncomfortable promoting tobacco, so he declined the offer.
Sure it would have been easy money, and it's not like he would have been actively telling people to use the product, but still, it's promoting it to kids.
Good for him I say.
Sure, it's not like energy drinks are the healthiest thing either, but they are not killing thousands daily like tobacco does.
It's far from black and white in terms of what people choose to promote, but I would have to agree that tobacco marketing to kids is pretty damn questionable.
 
i hate smoking, i will never do it, and in general i think smokers are pieces of shit. but i dont care one bit if there is a tobacco ad in freeskier. when someone is smoking near me i leave if i dont like it. i dont think ive ever seen a tobacco ad and thought any better about smoking because of it. at any age. we have all been educated about how bad tobacco is since we were old enough to talk, and thats enough. if someone is dumb enough to see a tobacco ad and start smoking because of it, they deserve any and all outcomes that might have. its nobody's fault but your own if you start smoking, 100% your fault. take responsibility for your own fucking actions. and if a kid see's it, well thats just too bad. IMO things like this are necessary risks we take in order to live in a "free" country. shit my dad grew up with tobacco ad's all over the place, yet he has never smoked in his life. his parents didn't shelter him from it one bit. and somehow he never touched it. because he isnt weak and could resist any peer pressure or temptations to try it.
 
i grew up around tobacco weed and a shit ton of alcohol, i lost tons of friends because they decided to let one of them take over their life. in junior high i was around people smoking and drinking almost every day, and it only got worse in highschool.yet ive never smoked once, never touched weed, and probably consumed less than a gallon of alcohol in my life. even though i was exposed to at least one of those things pretty much every day. because the only person who can make the decision to start is you. you cannot put any blame whatsoever on someone else or some ad in a magazine. in no way do they do anything to make you go buy a pack and start smoking. they put up advertisements letting you know that their company exists. thats it.

 
you guys can go on and on with your long drawn out arguments that only people with no lives will read. tobacco=big bucks, and for all you wannabe pros that can only ski boxes and nothing else, that is a good thing id suspect. grow the fuck up. shit changes. people smoke, chew and so on and so forth. fuck it, its skiing, why does it fuckin matter. its $$$$$$. $$$$$ talks. fuck bitches. those bitches=all you kids complaining about shit that doesn't matter. go cry, make a petition, do what you gotta do, shit ain't changin. deal with it. people on ns are jokes anyway. have fun, go skiing, worry about shit that actually matters. peace.
 


the rules relate to dates. although restrictions for their current ads do not apply they soon will. it is advertising vs, politics... soon sanctions/regulations will not allow such ads but so far it is ok...

generalT is making an ad campaign gamble that is legit by law and business but wrong by moral/principal.

i have a dip in my lip that was free b/c i work in this so called industry, but im an adult i guess...

its a very thin line and smuggs seems to be trying to make it a little more noticeable, props to smuggs.

 
In the end, this is what it all comes down to. For everyone arguing that we shouldn't care - its not that we're "pussies". It's against the law, plain and simple.

I personally hope this thread continues for weeks, so Freeskier has a greater chance of seeing it. So keep adding more fuel to the fire, everyone.

Fuck smoking, blah blah, smokers are the lame kids that wanted to fit in at school, blah blah, non-smokers are pussy-ass bitches, blah blah.
 
Yeah that's the main issue here.....It's against the law plain and simple.......just like those boys smoking a j on the golf course in your flickr account. Are you telling me you never break the law???
 
The length of my stupidity knows no bounds. Obviously.....I'm a smoker. It's been eating my brain cells since the ripe young age of 12 when I picked it up because I saw my friends smoking and I wanted to give it a try. Not due to some pro athlete I saw doing it.

Still waiting to see how anyone feels about a skier being sponsored by beer??? Beer is advertised in my canoe and kayak mags. I see no problem with that. Boaters drink and some skiers smoke, until someone proves freeskiers actual demographic from a survey I see no law being broken.
 
Thanks for pointing that out - I will take the picture down; don't want to influence the youth, y'know.

As I said earlier, you and me have differing opinions on the matter. You say "innocent until proven guilty", while I say "guilty until proven innocent".

Until GT proves that Freeskier's true demo is NOT primarily young kids (and further, until GT or the Surgeon General or whomever define what 'abundant' covers), they should not be allowed to advertise in the magazine.

Look....its a difference of opinion - I understand that. But the MSA was put into place for a reason. Because of Joe Camel and the Marlboro Man. Because kids are very impressionable (don't tell me to find a study, its common knowledge). Because Big Tobacco made a killing for years off of youth, many of whom now regret even starting.

As far as your beer analogy, I don't know. I asked before, is there a law against it? If there is an MSA-type law for alcohol, I'd take issue with that, as well.
 
Casual drinking doesn't mess with your body the same way casual smoking does. I'm not stoked to have products marketed towards in a ski mag me that will damage my health and make me a worse skier.

 
That's a bad argument though, so even though I'm on your side I'm going to argue against it before they do.

It doesn't matter which is worse; it is the principle of the fact. Alcohol poisoning, drunk driving, etc., all have the ability to kill/harm just as much as cigs.
 
Paragraph one - proves at the age of 12 you were not immune to outside influence. weather it be from your friends or seeing it in a mag or anything.

paragraph two - what young kid subcribes to BOATER or KAYAKER magazine? also beer is beer, malts, barley, hops and yeast. and are you really saying that freeskiing isn't made up of an abundant amount of youth?

from the extent of my knowledge tobacco is NOT tobacco, its tobacco plus a lot of other things, 100% that are known to kill humans., and prevent you from stopping smoking or SNUSING. this is known and for some reason is still aloud.

think of it as genocide that knows no race. yea these guys arent locking you in an oven or dragging you out to the shooting range, but they certainly aren't helping you live longer fuller lives with less smoke breaks. the product kills, and its nearly impossible to quit, because of stuff knowingly added to the product. and its all to make that money, that people seem to think skiing needs so badly. and its all aloud because they pay massive amounts of taxes.

and really guys whats the 1,000 dollar add they purchased in freeskier mag gonna do for the sport. that 1,000 dollar add probably paid for the coffee in the in the freeskier office for a month. whats the 10,000 or whatever amount of money gonna do for Olenick aside from buy him more booze? while it all tarnishes a sport with a very reputable image.

hell if moseley was snussing when he banged this shit out of that 360 mute in 98' who knows where i would be today, because i certainly bought those sweet ass pants he wore in the olymipics.

 
I'm aware alcohol abuse is very problematic, that's why i said "casual drinking".

A line has to be drawn somewhere, and i'm not interested in acting like a prude old grandmother, freeskiing wasn't built by people like that. It was built by, and is progressed by people who like to enjoy life and are okay with having a brew after skiing. Yes, this is a generalization, but we all know our sport is one of the few that actually has a time dedicated to drinking (Apres ski). So, to me, alcohol sponsorships, while still problematic, are different than tobacco because the product fits the lifestyle better.

But back to tobacco, I just hate the idea of it fucking with my lungs and my skiing ability, even if I just had 1-2 a day or whatever. And I hate the idea of some kids pickin it up because they saw it in a ski mag.
 
If i am in a room with someone who is smoking and i can't breathe is it my issue? Should i have to change my lifestyle to conform to someone elses?

Stopping print advertising is funny because it doesn't address the issue. It doesn't stop anyone from smoking, the aim is to stop kids from starting. Advertising for smoking has a connotation of being that if the kids don't see it they won't smoke. That is so flawed. There are many other forms of marketing, some not even by tobacco companies like the lyrics to lady gaga songs. There is no true way to prevent tobacco but not having anyone in the ski industry endorsing it in any sense of the way helps. Just because a tobacco company isn't putting advertising dollars into something doesn't mean it is not being marketed. Keeping tobacco out of skiing is more than just the ads. I recognize that you have a personal liberty to smoke but that is an much of an issue or even more of an issue depending on your social stature than advertising in keeping smoking out of the ski industry.

So yes, I, Thomas Robinson, would like to see tobacco out of skiing.

 
* THIS iS NOT REAL, MOSELEY DOES NOT ENDORSE THE USE OF SNUS, INFACT HE THINKS YOU ARE RETARDED IF YOU USE SNUS. BUT HE WONT JUDGE YOU TO YOUR FACE BECAUSE ITS LEGAL AND ITS YOUR CHOICE TO SNUS, BUT IF YOU DO CHOOSE TO SNUS YOU ARE A RETARD AND YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STOP. THE CRAVINGS LAST LONGER THAN THE MOMENTARY HIGH.

360-mute-98-olym006copy.jpg


 
i know how smoking works. Everyone knows how starting smoking works. its been covered quite a few times on this thread

but they're not advertising smoking......... they're advertising snus

Smokers smoke in the only places they're allowed to... outside or special rooms so if you're really that concerned of people smoking outside you might have a bigger problem.
 
Advertising didn't hand me a smoke and help me light it. I was fully aware of the dangers of smoking when I started. No deception involved, just a life choice.

Show me any proof of either mags age demographic. Natural or not it's still damaging if not used in moderation, and contributes to driving up healthcare costs. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that in any park on any hill over 50% are young, but snus isn't advertising in parks now are they. We were talking about a magazine ad right?

I'll agree, they are chocked full of chemicals that are bad for you, good point. But again we're not really debating whether they are bad for you or not, this is about advertising. It's still aloud because guess what, money makes the developed world go round, and that precious MSA has big tobacco pumping billions of dollars back into the 46 states that signed it.

Genocide isn't usually a choice given to the victims. Smokers are aware of the dangers even as a youth and choose to include it in their lives. I'll be the judge of what makes my life more full and enjoyable thank you, all dangers aside if I wanna chill out and have a butt who's to say what it's ultimately doing to my life.

You think this sport really has a reputable image???

Smoking is bad for you I agree, but putting snus ads in freeskier isn't the end of our sport IMO. Look at all the kids on here glorifying smoking weed, no one seems to give a shit about that.....oh that's right it's not advertised, every other jibber is wearing some piece of outerwear decked out in rasta colors cause they all are proponents of the rasta religion right?????
 
It's Shocking how many fellow New Schoolers are defending the Tobacco industry.
What it comes down to is corporations that sell a product that kills 400,000 people a year are sponsoring pro athletes who are role models for children.
IF YOU DON'T THINK THAT'S WRONG THEN STICK YOUR HEAD BACK UP YOUR ASS.
R Budd

 
like i said before i spent some time in the hospital and one of the days was with a dude who was given days to live,, because he smoked too much and had cancer all over his body. when the doctor tells you have have days left to live, its going to totally change your perception of that surgeon generals warning, ill bet any money on it. because right now with your whole life ahead of you, its hard to see the end of the tunnel, even if you think you are ready for it.

and this dude no older than 40, in the hospital sat infront of the window weeping all day, and looked outside while his wife and kids spent the last minutes with their husband and dad because of something he thought he could accept. made me feel alot better about my life and my broken leg.

so you can tell me all you want that every user knows the risks, but you really don't until its crunch time. thats when words become reality, and this guy wasnt ready for that.
 
even if it is wrong i still think they should be able to put that ad in their magazine, and tobacco companies should be able to sponsor whoever the hell they want.
 
and really guys whats the 1,000 dollar add they purchased in freeskier

mag gonna do for the sport. that 1,000 dollar add probably paid for the

coffee in the in the freeskier office for a month. whats the 10,000 or

whatever amount of money gonna do for Olenick aside from buy him more

booze? while it all tarnishes a sport with a very reputable image.

they dont sponsor events, they cant. the money is doing nothing except rotting your skulls.
 
goddamn kids, this world is a lot more complicated!

your beloved OAKLEY is supplyin Armies and Cops, which involves killing people (incl. non-combatants) and shit.

google collects your data, oil firms pollute your environment, banks and hedge funds ruin economies.

And you worry about tobacco-companies?! WTF?
 
....ehm....wait a sec....here in Italy on cigarettes packs is written "SMOKE KILLS", this is the law here....on the packs must be written this...but people still smoke...

Here there isn't any advertising on cigarettes...the law don't allow to make advertising on cigarettes...

How it's in USA/ Canada etc??? There is cigarettes advertisings??
 
The only difference between smoking and snus is that people who snus aren't directly offending me and other non-smokers. You're still addressing my point about smokers being inconsiderate when I've stated several times, and the discussion is currently focussed on, the fact that advertising an addictive and harmful substance is the problem. Re-read my posts, because I've said several times that I don't care if you, personally, smoke, as long as you don't do it around me. It's the people who don't smoke and who are at risk of being influenced into starting who are the subject of this discussion.
 
I agree 100%.

And to those saying people smoking doesn't affect you... that is incorrect in just about every country excluding the U.S. Cancer treatment as a result of smoking costs taxpayers millions every year. Millions that could be much better spent in other areas.
 
i totally agree tobacco, smoking drugs exct is just stupid..and it shouldnt have anything to do with skiing...hate me if you want but im not gunna be the one dying from lung cancer exct.
 
In Canada, anybody buying a pack is well aware of the dangers of smoking due to the required warning posted on every pack. Advertising is also banned and cigarettes are hidden behind the counter in convenience shops and only available upon request. The only time I have ever even seen an add for cigarettes is in a magazine, so really, at least to me it isn't a big deal at all. But I love smokes so fuck me and my tainted views right? C'mon guys, a little advertising isn't going to turn a generation of young freeskiers in smokers.

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How can General Snuss advertise its product on ski websites, let alone sponsor skiers? What loop hole are they getting through? Snuss is not cool, I have had 2 packs of it at home for 5 years that I got in Austria. Tried a bit, just gives you a massive head spin. But why you would want to do it all the time I don't know. If you can imagine eating a cigarette, all salty and sour and makes teeth go brown and gives you mouth cancer. The bags are full of pure tobacco and glass that cuts into your tissue to release the tobacco straight into your blood stream. I just don't think it should be represented as something that is cool in skiing because its not.
 
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