PETITION: KEEP TOBACCO OUT OF SKIING
- Thread starter smuggs
- Start date
ECfreeski3
Active member
now that's just irresponsible. making young kids think bitch drinks like that are cool..
ECfreeski3
Active member
way to completely miss the point, and instead just drop claims..
I think you are missing the point here. I don't think people are upset because there ads are "offensive", they are upset because they are marketing a highly addictive and dangerous product to children. To say they are not targeting kids would be naive, and to think that people (especially children) are not influenced by media would just be plain ridiculous.
If a 12 year-old kid tries tobacco one time because of peer/media pressure and gets addicted, are you really going to call him stupid? Do we really want companies pushing kids and adults to make these choices?
If a 12 year-old kid tries tobacco one time because of peer/media pressure and gets addicted, are you really going to call him stupid? Do we really want companies pushing kids and adults to make these choices?
MAPLE_SYRUP
Active member
Smoking is a choice by people. If they want to smoke and ski thats cool with me, i do it every once in a while. But i don't smoke in the lift line, thats just shows disregard of others around you.
as for advertisements, it really doesn't matter if they are in magazines, kids are exposed to smoking every day. Look around, there are advertisements everywhere. ya it's not the best for promoting a good image of freeskiing, but its not like the ads show tanner hall smoking a pack of camels or anything.
Smoking is hated more and more in America, but millions still smoke. I am not anti smoking nor pro smoking. but are tobacco companies really hurting the ski industry? only time will tell. This is an interesting topic that i want to keep updated on.
as for advertisements, it really doesn't matter if they are in magazines, kids are exposed to smoking every day. Look around, there are advertisements everywhere. ya it's not the best for promoting a good image of freeskiing, but its not like the ads show tanner hall smoking a pack of camels or anything.
Smoking is hated more and more in America, but millions still smoke. I am not anti smoking nor pro smoking. but are tobacco companies really hurting the ski industry? only time will tell. This is an interesting topic that i want to keep updated on.
chickenwang
Active member
excuse me while i light my spliff.
smuggs
Active member
does GT's money pay for your camera, your computer, line skis? remove yourself from the sport of newschool and what are you. one skier. whom really is on his own, that should realize big tobacco is nowhere close to cool and promoting it to kids like they did in the past until it was made illegal is about as lame as shit gets.
i get by just fine skiing every day i can with out the support of anyone involved in seriously questionable things that have nothing to do with the sport.
i get by just fine skiing every day i can with out the support of anyone involved in seriously questionable things that have nothing to do with the sport.
No I think YOU missed the point. I blatantly admit that it doesn't effect me much at all, but it DOES effect me, and it effects others a lot more than I.
The more money available in our sport in general allows for more contest, more traveling, more athletes, etc. it doesn't have to go directly into my pocket, or your pocket. It creates opportunities for all of us. Without sponsorship money no one one would be doing any skiing. I know you all like to think that skiers in the industry make millions, even thousands of dollars, and the fact is many make little to nothing at all. I think they deserve any and all the help they can get. I personally enjoy watching contests, videos, etc. I enjoy skiing. I enjoy when money gets put into the sport, because it is good for the sport and the people who are involved with it.
The more money available in our sport in general allows for more contest, more traveling, more athletes, etc. it doesn't have to go directly into my pocket, or your pocket. It creates opportunities for all of us. Without sponsorship money no one one would be doing any skiing. I know you all like to think that skiers in the industry make millions, even thousands of dollars, and the fact is many make little to nothing at all. I think they deserve any and all the help they can get. I personally enjoy watching contests, videos, etc. I enjoy skiing. I enjoy when money gets put into the sport, because it is good for the sport and the people who are involved with it.
Commonwealth
Active member
Exactly.
What they are doing should be considered against the law. Unless they want to pay for a study to find out Freeskier's true demographic, we should assume that children under the age of 18 make up a sizable portion of their target market.
What they are doing should be considered against the law. Unless they want to pay for a study to find out Freeskier's true demographic, we should assume that children under the age of 18 make up a sizable portion of their target market.
smuggs
Active member
carcinogens are ADDED to the tobacco afterwords to keep you buying it. its the chemicals they put in there, not the tobacco its self, if you grew raw tobacco and accessed it fresh, you would be very pleased with the plant and not NEED another drag, smoke, or a pack, or carton.
andrew.
Active member
i think newschoolers is being way too impressionable as a society. what does it say about us that as soon as a a skier takes snus as a sponsor and we get an ad in a magazine we flip out and start making threads. can we all just decide to make our own decisions and not let what some other person does affect us and move on with our lives?
s.erickson
Member
This, and i dont think tobacco belongs in mags but corporate sponsorship that has no relation to skiing in general. It doesnt help the sport and sells it out to corporations.
smuggs
Active member
J. Berg
skiing would still exist if it wasn't main stream. skiing is the oldest form of travel other than walking. anytime i went to or saw a mountain as a kid before newschoolers was cool, before anything was cool in the sport for me i saw the mountain and want to come down it with skis on.
your points are invalid. skiing would exist with out its latest trend.
skiing would still exist if it wasn't main stream. skiing is the oldest form of travel other than walking. anytime i went to or saw a mountain as a kid before newschoolers was cool, before anything was cool in the sport for me i saw the mountain and want to come down it with skis on.
your points are invalid. skiing would exist with out its latest trend.
Commonwealth
Active member
Lol. I'm not a part of the "industry" (as apparently you are) but I'm sure if you ask around the general consensus will be, in fact, contrary to your opinion.
PASKIINGSUCKS
Active member
I would like to know how you would feel about budweiser sponsoring a skier, or maybe pabst blue ribbon. Would that be out of line as well????
Commonwealth
Active member
Is there a law against it?
Backyard.Skier
Active member
on par
andrew.
Active member
are you kidding me?
a) i said in the same post that you cut off "but seriously its a lot" implying that the numbers i gave were meant in a joking manner.
b) i know not all the kids on here smoke weed, but its a significant amount.
c) even if it were 50%, my point would still be relevant.
d) you only corrected me to show off how cool and different you are because you dont smoke weed, didnt you?
a) i said in the same post that you cut off "but seriously its a lot" implying that the numbers i gave were meant in a joking manner.
b) i know not all the kids on here smoke weed, but its a significant amount.
c) even if it were 50%, my point would still be relevant.
d) you only corrected me to show off how cool and different you are because you dont smoke weed, didnt you?
...and how long has skiing has tobacco sposnsors you dumbfuck? You want to take money away?
YOU ARE AN IDIOT WITH DIAREHA OF THE MOUTH. You literally just spew bullshit.
Oldest form of transportation other than walking? try swimming? climbing? Snowshoeing? Rafting/boating? etc etc. It wasnt for CENTURIES after we could walk that skiing was invented by the scandanavians. How do you think they go to scandanavia??
I am done with this thread. I am pissed I posted in it, because it wasn't worth my time. You are sooooo stupid, and continue to make no sense. Your "petition" (which actualyl is just a thread on NS, a petition has physical signatures and is mailed) is a massive failure.
YOU ARE AN IDIOT WITH DIAREHA OF THE MOUTH. You literally just spew bullshit.
Oldest form of transportation other than walking? try swimming? climbing? Snowshoeing? Rafting/boating? etc etc. It wasnt for CENTURIES after we could walk that skiing was invented by the scandanavians. How do you think they go to scandanavia??
I am done with this thread. I am pissed I posted in it, because it wasn't worth my time. You are sooooo stupid, and continue to make no sense. Your "petition" (which actualyl is just a thread on NS, a petition has physical signatures and is mailed) is a massive failure.
is it not bigger than ever? Are there not mroe contest, mroe ski companies, and more skiers than ever before? Obviously the economy is in a downturn globally, the current state of any industry isn't going to be good.
And nowhere did I ever claim to be in the industry. I am a freelance photographer, filmer, and most importantly a student. Again, you don't know me.
And nowhere did I ever claim to be in the industry. I am a freelance photographer, filmer, and most importantly a student. Again, you don't know me.
Yung_Gnarley
Active member
andrew is a fucking retard. he's missing the point. dude, you cant just say "well, it's their decision." cuz you can help change whether or not they get presented with that decision.
Commonwealth
Active member
Took me awhile to find a legit source, but let's take a look.
"The adolescents in our study (which took place in January 1997) would have been exposed to the Joe Camel advertising campaign (which began in 1988) for nearly 10 years. Virtually all of them reported that they had seen a Joe Camel advertisement at least once, and more than three-quarters reported seeing them at least six times. Yet their attitudes toward the advertisements were far from negative, and a substantial proportion viewed the advertisements as making smoking more (not less) attractive. Two-thirds indicated that they liked the advertisements, and nearly half indicated that they make smoking more appealing. A similar pattern was found for Marlboro advertisements—high exposure along with a high level of liking and a substantial proportion who believed they make smoking more appealing. Furthermore, adolescent smokers were even more likely than non-smokers to like the advertisements and to believe they make smoking more appealing."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1759675/pdf/v007p00129.pdf
To say that children aren't impacted by advertising is, like mousseau said, incredibly naive.
"The adolescents in our study (which took place in January 1997) would have been exposed to the Joe Camel advertising campaign (which began in 1988) for nearly 10 years. Virtually all of them reported that they had seen a Joe Camel advertisement at least once, and more than three-quarters reported seeing them at least six times. Yet their attitudes toward the advertisements were far from negative, and a substantial proportion viewed the advertisements as making smoking more (not less) attractive. Two-thirds indicated that they liked the advertisements, and nearly half indicated that they make smoking more appealing. A similar pattern was found for Marlboro advertisements—high exposure along with a high level of liking and a substantial proportion who believed they make smoking more appealing. Furthermore, adolescent smokers were even more likely than non-smokers to like the advertisements and to believe they make smoking more appealing."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1759675/pdf/v007p00129.pdf
To say that children aren't impacted by advertising is, like mousseau said, incredibly naive.
ECfreeski3
Active member
stop freaking out (and claiming, for that matter)
everyone else is arguing pretty respectfully and youre just losing it. cool it
everyone else is arguing pretty respectfully and youre just losing it. cool it
Commonwealth
Active member
"seeing how as I have an internship with LINE, shoot photos, and do write ups on the ski industry?"
I'll concede that yes, it is bigger than ever. But far from booming. Regardless, silly point to argue over. Let's focus on the bigger picture.
I'll concede that yes, it is bigger than ever. But far from booming. Regardless, silly point to argue over. Let's focus on the bigger picture.
ski8990
Active member
I don't understand how some of you can say "oh it's just more money for skiing." You think the tobacco companies give a shit about skiing? They exist purely to make money. They are not doing us a favor. The fact that the "more money=good no matter what" attitude exists just demonstrates why the tobacco industry would target us: there are a lot of stupid people who will honestly view their investment in skiing as some form of philanthropy. It is not. The argument that kids aren't going to be influenced is just stupid. Companies dont just waste money on advertising; it exists because it does, in fact, influence people.
e.will
Active member
i understand your aversion to tobacco entirely, and i think you have a valid point that they shouldn't advertise with freeskier, which is undoubtedly a youth based market (because everyone over the age of 20 understands how fucking painful it is to read).
However, don't make blanket statements without having done some research. Well, in the american (bastardized) version of snus, carcinogens might be added, as they do that with all of their products. However Swedish snus is not like that. I know, its from wikipedia which isn't exactly reliable, but it is cited.
"lower concentrations of nitrosamines and other carcinogens that form from the partially anaerobic heating of proteins; 2.8 parts per mil for Ettan brand compared to as high as 127.9 parts per mil in American brands, according to a study by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts Department of Health"
However, don't make blanket statements without having done some research. Well, in the american (bastardized) version of snus, carcinogens might be added, as they do that with all of their products. However Swedish snus is not like that. I know, its from wikipedia which isn't exactly reliable, but it is cited.
"lower concentrations of nitrosamines and other carcinogens that form from the partially anaerobic heating of proteins; 2.8 parts per mil for Ettan brand compared to as high as 127.9 parts per mil in American brands, according to a study by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts Department of Health"
PASKIINGSUCKS
Active member
Well is there a law against tobacco sponsering a skier??
ECfreeski3
Active member
"GT and its employees are fully compliant with the Master Settlement Agreement (MSA), which confirms that we will not direct our marketing strategies toward youth; including the use of cartoons in advertising, outdoor advertising, free samples for minors, and restricting sponsorship of events with an abundant population of youth. In addition, General Tobacco is pleased to comply with all financial provisions set by the MSA in contributing to local, state, and federal foundations directed to the prevention and elimination of underage smoking."
andrew.
Active member
so youre saying that an ad in freeskier is the first time these kids have ever seen tobacco? and that by seeing it in a magazine about their sport that its going to cause them to jump up and go do it? im sorry but thats ridiculous. people have seen tobacco around their whole lives, and with the current cool, hip image of tobacco, i think an ad and a sponsorship is the least of our worries.
if you guys are so insistant on stopping tobacco, you should probably concern yourself with bigger issues than an ad in a magazine.
and not_a_gangster, please dont make this argument personal. if we start name calling this is going to turn into a shitshow.
if you guys are so insistant on stopping tobacco, you should probably concern yourself with bigger issues than an ad in a magazine.
and not_a_gangster, please dont make this argument personal. if we start name calling this is going to turn into a shitshow.
Commonwealth
Active member
Not against sponsoring a skier, but marketing to youth.
fouldsys
Active member
if they want to sponsor skiing events they should go ahead and do it. the large majority of newschool skiers these days arent even old enough to buy tobacco. quite honestly its just a poor business decision on their part. basically they are just giving us money and we do nothing for them. your argument is sound though, and according to that agreement thing you quoted, tobacco companies should have no place in skiing, however i still disagree with you. im fine with them sponsoring events, but they should never be aloud to sponsor athletes as that would definitely influence kids to use tobacco.
Commonwealth
Active member
They can't sponsor events.
Limitation of Tobacco Brand Name Sponsorships.
(1) Prohibited Sponsorships. After the MSA Execution Date, no Participating Manufacturer may engage in any Brand Name Sponsorship in any State consisting of:
(A) concerts; or
(B) events in which the intended audience is comprised of a significant percentage of Youth; or
(C) events in which any paid participants or contestants are Youth; or
(D) any athletic event between opposing teams in any football, basketball, baseball, soccer or hockey league.
http://www.ag.ca.gov/tobacco/pdf/1msa.pdf
Limitation of Tobacco Brand Name Sponsorships.
(1) Prohibited Sponsorships. After the MSA Execution Date, no Participating Manufacturer may engage in any Brand Name Sponsorship in any State consisting of:
(A) concerts; or
(B) events in which the intended audience is comprised of a significant percentage of Youth; or
(C) events in which any paid participants or contestants are Youth; or
(D) any athletic event between opposing teams in any football, basketball, baseball, soccer or hockey league.
http://www.ag.ca.gov/tobacco/pdf/1msa.pdf
PASKIINGSUCKS
Active member
so your just making that assumption on your own then???? I thought it was clearly stated in an earlier thread that freeskiers main demographic was 20-28 or something??
Go ahead and sponsor a study then to prove that more 13 year olds look up to pete o than 24 year olds. Until then I'd say your assuming.
Go ahead and sponsor a study then to prove that more 13 year olds look up to pete o than 24 year olds. Until then I'd say your assuming.
Commonwealth
Active member
"statistically skiing has way more people over the age of 18" quoted from mrstskier in the other thread.
Like I said earlier in this thread, unless they (GT) want to pay for a study to find out Freeskier's true demographic, we should assume that children under the age of 18 make up a sizable portion of their target market.
If they results of the study coincide with mrst's opinion, I have no problem with it.
Like I said earlier in this thread, unless they (GT) want to pay for a study to find out Freeskier's true demographic, we should assume that children under the age of 18 make up a sizable portion of their target market.
If they results of the study coincide with mrst's opinion, I have no problem with it.
throwin_steeze
Member
agreed, but there is no need for a petition
dr.awkward
Active member
of all the products out there that are marketed towards skiers, this has to be the first one that actually will make you a WORSE skier. But I guess onlymake you a worse skier if you have any interest in skiing top to bottom first tracks on a pow day, or doing more than the first jump in a jump line or more than one hit on a half pipe. I can't even imagine how much fun it would be to hike a flat box with smoker's lungs. Like someone said before I don't care if you smoke or chew tobacco it's your choice, but I do think It'd be a shame if some impressionable 15 year old decided to limit his lungs - and skiing ability - just to "be cool".