Pay for POW

[primalskis]

The last couple years I have been worried the ski industry is moving towards a pay for POW model. What do I mean "pay for POW"? I mean you pay extra you get on the mountain early or get special access.

Low and behold my home mountain , Big Sky, is offering their unguided first tracks program this year. Pay extra and you get to load an hour early. It is only one chair lift (for now?) but I fear this is just the beginning.

Thoughts?

 

[SavageBiff]

The last couple years I have been worried the ski industry is moving towards a pay for POW model. What do I mean "pay for POW"? I mean you pay extra you get on the mountain early or get special access.

Low and behold my home mountain , Big Sky, is offering their unguided first tracks program this year. Pay extra and you get to load an hour early. It is only one chair lift (for now?) but I fear this is just the beginning.

Thoughts?

It’s kinda a bummer those of us with some extra cheese can buy a head start over those willing to get up early for first chair and wait in line...however at the same time it can provide an opportunity whether you gotta save or already have the money for both locals and tourists to access some POW that’s especially hard to target for a tourist like me from out east.

Now that said I’m not against it, whether at my home mountain or other, but I can’t say whether it would be better to have a limit to the #per day to prevent tracking out or have an unlimited # per day to provide some opportunity for equal access, but I do think they should certainly limit number of slopes they allow, at the same time they should have a spot for uphill only, no “first tracks “ , program outside their area, and those regular line waiting folks should also be provided an area only for them for one hour, however the latter suggestion would probably be quite hard to orchestrate, but the first two are doable.

Luckily I have a buddy that moved here from Co and knows some bc stashes and is gonna show me, and we will be meeting up with some local friends of his.

 

[mountaindewgirl]

The last couple years I have been worried the ski industry is moving towards a pay for POW model. What do I mean "pay for POW"? I mean you pay extra you get on the mountain early or get special access.

Low and behold my home mountain , Big Sky, is offering their unguided first tracks program this year. Pay extra and you get to load an hour early. It is only one chair lift (for now?) but I fear this is just the beginning.

Thoughts?

I imagine Jerry spending $50 to ride harder-than-asphalt blue ice at 7 am.

Negative 10 degrees and it hasn't snowed in a week.

The light is so flat and dark he can't see anything beneath him.

Alone, cold and scared, he goes into the lodge and spends $9 on a cup of coffee.

But then he goes home and tells all his buddies he got the powder pass and had the whole untouched mountain to himself and was like "totally getting pitted bro."

**This post was edited on Dec 4th 2020 at 9:56:33am

 

[r00kie]

Bohemia offers a "fast pass" where you get to use a shorter lift line kinda like what you see at amusement parks. Seems dumb to me, mostly cause I am way to cheap to pay for shit like that.

**This post was edited on Dec 4th 2020 at 9:57:14am

 

[SavageBiff]

My home mountain does this, I’m kinda against this one, see it at amusement parks too, not a fan. It reminds me of those on the highway cutting people off, generally slows time for 99% and speeds for a few, better off letting people in an hour early for an extra $$$

Bohemia offers a "fast pass" where you get to use a shorter lift line kinda like what you see at amusement parks. Seems dumb to me, mostly cause I am why to cheap to pay for shit like that.

 

[ASSholebomber22]

Been happening forever. The dudes with the real fat stacks just get 'lessons' to skip lines

 

[SuspiciousFish]

Bohemia offers a "fast pass" where you get to use a shorter lift line kinda like what you see at amusement parks. Seems dumb to me, mostly cause I am way to cheap to pay for shit like that.

**This post was edited on Dec 4th 2020 at 9:57:14am

The Colorado resorts have been doing this for years. Everyone used to glare at them which was always kind of funny. Back in the day you had to get 'lessons' to cut the line. My Dad's buddy used to do it. Him and his friends would get group "Lessons" on a pow day and use it to not wait in line. They would tell the instructor, "If you have tips for us, tell us on the chairlift up. Besides that, we basically just want you to rip pow with us today." Supposedly the instructor was always super stoked on it lol

 

[primalskis]

The Colorado resorts have been doing this for years. Everyone used to glare at them which was always kind of funny. Back in the day you had to get 'lessons' to cut the line. My Dad's buddy used to do it. Him and his friends would get group "Lessons" on a pow day and use it to not wait in line. They would tell the instructor, "If you have tips for us, tell us on the chairlift up. Besides that, we basically just want you to rip pow with us today." Supposedly the instructor was always super stoked on it lol

I taught skiing briefly. Didn't like it. Especially on pow days. I would have been stoked to have a group like that though

 

[KCoCM]

An hour early sounds a bit excessive to me. Copper does this but only like 15-30 minutes, and its only off american eagle, which doesnt lead to shit regarding pow anyway. I think it varies by resort, but if they are spinning lifts that access great terrain, id be pissed lol

 

[primalskis]

An hour early sounds a bit excessive to me. Copper does this but only like 15-30 minutes, and its only off american eagle, which doesnt lead to shit regarding pow anyway. I think it varies by resort, but if they are spinning lifts that access great terrain, id be pissed lol

That is a good point. The lift they are doing this on at Big Sky is not the best for pow lines. So for now it is not that big a deal. They are essentially catering to the folks who want to feel special....

 

[GayWolf420]

fast tracks at PCMR/The Canyons and early-ups for ski school or "guides" at Snowbird or something has been a pretty regular thing, been seeing that quite a lot. I always kinda chuckle at Snowbird because its really just early-ups to ski groomer pow off of Wilbere or Mid-Gad because none of the good terrain ever opens right away, and especially as of recent with some of the heavy storm cycles we've gotten in seasons prior. Nobody is skiing pow unless Patrol says otherwise.

I cant talk shit. I sniped the ski school line plenty last season with my ski team groups lmao

**This post was edited on Dec 4th 2020 at 11:00:56am

**This post was edited on Dec 4th 2020 at 11:02:13am

**This post was edited on Dec 4th 2020 at 11:03:48am

 

[r00kie]

The Colorado resorts have been doing this for years. Everyone used to glare at them which was always kind of funny. Back in the day you had to get 'lessons' to cut the line. My Dad's buddy used to do it. Him and his friends would get group "Lessons" on a pow day and use it to not wait in line. They would tell the instructor, "If you have tips for us, tell us on the chairlift up. Besides that, we basically just want you to rip pow with us today." Supposedly the instructor was always super stoked on it lol

As an instructor I would love that. Get paid to rip pow laps with a group stoked to be out, yes please.

 

[SWRTOFFICIAL]

Bohemia offers a "fast pass" where you get to use a shorter lift line kinda like what you see at amusement parks. Seems dumb to me, mostly cause I am way to cheap to pay for shit like that.

**This post was edited on Dec 4th 2020 at 9:57:14am

Yea I dont get that, when the lines are long there there ends up being a fast pass line anyways so it doesn't make a big difference...

Lonni's gotta do what he's gotta do and I respect, doesn't mean im gonna pay for it lmao

 

[eheath]

Snowbird has been running 7am tram rides on pow days since I've lived in utah (14 years) and I'm sure they did it before that.

Also, have you ever heard of heliskiing? People have been paying to get pow turns for decades dude.

 

[SendyMcSendyface]

The Colorado resorts have been doing this for years. Everyone used to glare at them which was always kind of funny. Back in the day you had to get 'lessons' to cut the line. My Dad's buddy used to do it. Him and his friends would get group "Lessons" on a pow day and use it to not wait in line. They would tell the instructor, "If you have tips for us, tell us on the chairlift up. Besides that, we basically just want you to rip pow with us today." Supposedly the instructor was always super stoked on it lol

One of the first lessons I taught at Targhee was like this. It was a fantastic storm day, and these dudes just wanted me to show them around and rip pow with them. I didn't really know my way around at that point, cause I was new to the mountain and had only been skiing on low vis days, but I wasn't going to pass up that lesson so I faked it pretty damn good. It was a great time.

 

[a_burger]

Boyne resorts have been doing the “first tracks” thing for ages now. Not sure how it is at Big Sky but it’s only on Sundays here at Sugarloaf mid season and limited by where the winch cats are on the hill. The whole thing is a nightmare for ops trying to keep someone from getting decapitated by a winch cat or otherwise destroyed so I wouldn’t be worried about the program expanding much. It’s like 20 people a day who bother and I think it’s only lined up on a powder like once in the past few years.

 

[primalskis]

Snowbird has been running 7am tram rides on pow days since I've lived in utah (14 years) and I'm sure they did it before that.

Also, have you ever heard of heliskiing? People have been paying to get pow turns for decades dude.

no, I have never heard of heliskiing

 

[dylansiggers]

buy a sled?

 

[primalskis]

buy a sled?

That is part of the equation as the value of a season pass erodes. More and more people here are opting for backcountry over resort.. hopefully they are going educated.

 

[dylansiggers]

I mean people probably will get educated, and people will still fuck up, doesn’t matter how much you know or how much experience you have if you make shitty decisions. There’s so many ways to ski pow in the backcountry super safely in reality.

but yea people this year are gonna think if they take an avy course they’re good to go but in reality it takes years to figure it out. And even then your only as good as your decision making.

”something something it’s a journey not a destination something something”

That is part of the equation as the value of a season pass erodes. More and more people here are opting for backcountry over resort.. hopefully they are going educated.

 

[primalskis]

yup

I mean people probably will get educated, and people will still fuck up, doesn’t matter how much you know or how much experience you have if you make shitty decisions. There’s so many ways to ski pow in the backcountry super safely in reality.

but yea people this year are gonna think if they take an avy course they’re good to go but in reality it takes years to figure it out. And even then your only as good as your decision making.

”something something it’s a journey not a destination something something”

 

[SofaKingSick]

Bohemia offers a "fast pass" where you get to use a shorter lift line kinda like what you see at amusement parks. Seems dumb to me, mostly cause I am way to cheap to pay for shit like that.

**This post was edited on Dec 4th 2020 at 9:57:14am

I've always been so pleasantly surprised that this isn't a common thing ?

 

[SuspiciousFish]

Yea I dont get that, when the lines are long there there ends up being a fast pass line anyways so it doesn't make a big difference...

Lonni's gotta do what he's gotta do and I respect, doesn't mean im gonna pay for it lmao

I used to just get high enough that the lift lines seemed shorter anyway lol

"If you cant change the lift line, just change time..."

 

[K-Dot.]

Like others have said, this has been going on for a good while now. If it seems wrong to you (which it ought to) then you have a problem with captialism because this is exactly how it's designed to function and nothing unique to the ski resort industry. When you give one human the ability to own multiple mountains, this kind of shit will happen again and again which is why people are turning to the bc, where we all collectively own it.

 

[KCoCM]

I used to just get high enough that the lift lines seemed shorter anyway lol

"If you cant change the lift line, just change time..."

preach

 

[primalskis]

You hit the nail on the head. Still I wonder how the consolidation will all play out. Will resort skiing become something exclusively for the super wealthy or will it collapse...

Like others have said, this has been going on for a good while now. If it seems wrong to you (which it ought to) then you have a problem with captialism because this is exactly how it's designed to function and nothing unique to the ski resort industry. When you give one human the ability to own multiple mountains, this kind of shit will happen again and again which is why people are turning to the bc, where we all collectively own it.

 

[ericforman]

Capitalism. The bad? Rich people get to track the pow before everyone else which seems unfair and is bad for other people. The good? The mountain makes more money which let's them expand to new terrain, build better lifts, etc. which all means more employment for more people in mountain communities. The jaded would say shareholders and the CEO get it all and will raise prices anyway, which is somewhat true. It's literally just the resort taking money from rich people and keeping some of it and putting some of it back into the resort at the cost of first tracks.

Anyway, as long as they offer uphill, I don't really see the issue as you can still beat the jerries. Most of these people suck at skiing anyway and will probably track the 4 inches sitting on some groomer, which is fun to be fair. Or they are on their one trip a year to the west, which, fine go for it. Skiing the east is hard man.

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

Snowbird has been running 7am tram rides on pow days since I've lived in utah (14 years) and I'm sure they did it before that.

Also, have you ever heard of heliskiing? People have been paying to get pow turns for decades dude.

It's funny because even on the days I get up for first tram, I rarely see their tracks.

 

[eheath]

It's funny because even on the days I get up for first tram, I rarely see their tracks.

That's because they usually go to a different part of the mountain that isn't open yet and doesn't need significant avy mitigation.

 

[SavageBiff]

Snowbird has been running 7am tram rides on pow days since I've lived in utah (14 years) and I'm sure they did it before that.

Also, have you ever heard of heliskiing? People have been paying to get pow turns for decades dude.

I think heli skiings a bad comparison to ops thread. There’s not typically a line or resort of people waiting to heli ski, and you buy your time with heli skiing. Whereas at the resort, the mountain is being opened early only for a select few and there are lines for short runs, and of course there will always be those off put by the early admittance for mr money bags and his kids who aren’t the type of skier as the bums and many other “pow” seekers and they wanna bitch about their turns getting screwed up and snow washed out, understandable to a point I guess. Your heli skiing comparison would have been more relevant if the thread had been negatively aimed at those who can afford the program but ops question and thread were directed towards feelings of what’s happening within the resort.

 

[theabortionator]

I imagine Jerry spending $50 to ride harder-than-asphalt blue ice at 7 am.

Negative 10 degrees and it hasn't snowed in a week.

The light is so flat and dark he can't see anything beneath him.

Alone, cold and scared, he goes into the lodge and spends $9 on a cup of coffee.

But then he goes home and tells all his buddies he got the powder pass and had the whole untouched mountain to himself and was like "totally getting pitted bro."

**This post was edited on Dec 4th 2020 at 9:56:33am

People would line up dumb early at turoa. Lifty was telling some kid was all "I got 6th chair!!!!!" "Did you have a good run?" "No but i got 6th chair!!!!"

With a kid that's whatever but that mentality in adults is shot. Ride the shittest conditions just to be first.

Idk same with the pow days where everyone and their mom rides an unmanageable shut fest kf crowds that isn't even fun just to say they git the pow day.

I'd rather ride less ideal conditions with 1/4 of the people 100% percent of the time.

Also nothing worse than kooks cracked out on coffee and stressed from work teying to maximize their vacation and ready to fight or be an asshole to anyone they think might be in there way.

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

That's because they usually go to a different part of the mountain that isn't open yet and doesn't need significant avy mitigation.

Thank goodness for avalanche danger, keeping Jerries out of the freshies.

 

[Way*Mo]

Passes that let you skip the line are awesome if you have the resources. Snowbird has one too, but it’s like $10,000.

Bohemia offers a "fast pass" where you get to use a shorter lift line kinda like what you see at amusement parks. Seems dumb to me, mostly cause I am way to cheap to pay for shit like that.

**This post was edited on Dec 4th 2020 at 9:57:14am

 

[SavageBiff]

Honestly don’t we all pursue this danger for the increased rush and sense of fun? I know anytime i have a choice to go safe or go big the latter is always more fun.

Thank goodness for avalanche danger, keeping Jerries out of the freshies.

 

[theabortionator]

Vail was trying to so a thing wherr they close off a trail on a saturday for platinum passes. Shit was such a whack concept. Would have been fun to poach and piss people off though. I think they bailed on it though.

 

[BigPurpleSkiSuit]

Passes that let you skip the line are awesome if you have the resources. Snowbird has one too, but it’s like $10,000.

I think you're thinking of the seven summits pass, and that's 17500 last I heard.

 

[GayWolf420]

You hit the nail on the head. Still I wonder how the consolidation will all play out. Will resort skiing become something exclusively for the super wealthy or will it collapse...

Maybe at Deer Valley, Beaver Creek, etc. where the accommodations are multi-million dollar ski in/out residences and guests are more than willing to pay for that. I think DV was gonna try and go that route this season with homeowners and pass holders only being allowed to ski, no ticket sales, but thats changed. It would still be crazy busy up at those resorts anyways because rich people said Fuck LA/NY/Chicago and moved to the mountains. It would be kinda hilarious to make a resort like a country club only to find you still have massive waits in the liftlines just like people waited around all summer at their local clubs to find a tee time. Was it reallly worth it at the end of the day? lol still having to rub shoulders with other people

Maybe? Maybe not? It wouldn't be taken too lightly for sure. I think ski towns are starting to bond together a bit more since COVID hit.....Our local non-profits here hit record-breaking donation amounts for fundraisers during the preseason so for what its worth, we still look out for each other in ski towns and will fight tooth and nail to defend it. also part of the allure for people to move to ski towns is to "live like a local" like every other tourism department promotes out there near skiing. Ive met plenty of people who moved here recently that are very active in the community and love it with every fiber. Theyre not just rich playrgrounds like we'd like to believe.

**This post was edited on Dec 4th 2020 at 5:35:58pm

 

[Way*Mo]

It’s that much now?! Damn. At least you get a private locker and snacks. Haha. Did you know it used to be free for anybody who actually climbed the Seven Summits. The founder of Snowbird (Blanking on the name at the moment) climbed them all and wanted to start a club.

I think you're thinking of the seven summits pass, and that's 17500 last I heard.

 

[SavageBiff]

Real tempting tho, consider what you already spend etc and plan a year ahead to save, I don’t have a real dope mountain like that locally but my local mountain offers a speed pas that skips the line for most of their lifts and it’s like $200 ? but it’s always empty anyway

I think you're thinking of the seven summits pass, and that's 17500 last I heard.

 

[VT_scratch]

whistler has been offering 'fresh tracks breakfast' for years. pay extra, hop in the line early with a bunch of other people with fresh tracks tickets, hope you get let on (there is a limited number who are allowed up, but you can buy fresh tracks tickets in advanced and just use it on whatever day you want). either a) go in for buffet breakfast then get pow, or b) get pow laps in then hope you make it to the lodge in time to shove bacon in your pockets and keep skiing.

 

[SofaKingSick]

It’s that much now?! Damn. At least you get a private locker and snacks. Haha. Did you know it used to be free for anybody who actually climbed the Seven Summits. The founder of Snowbird (Blanking on the name at the moment) climbed them all and wanted to start a club.

Really? That's super badass

 

[bennwithtwons]

One of my local hills makes a big effort to open one lift 15-20 minutes early on pow days. A bunch of us show up early and wait for it, then you are getting your second or third lap by the time the other early birds are even showing up. For the first few laps it is just the 30 people who got after it early smashing all the good stuff and hollering at each other from the lifts when people get sendy. Then upper mountain opens and the whole exercise is repeated. By 11:00 you’re crushed and it’s time to go recharge.

 

[theduke6969]

Snowbird has been running 7am tram rides on pow days since I've lived in utah (14 years) and I'm sure they did it before that.

Also, have you ever heard of heliskiing? People have been paying to get pow turns for decades dude.

wait, what the shit is heliskiing again?

 

[uturn]

Crested Butte had something like this before Vail bought the Muellers out. They called it "first tracks" or something like that. I was out there a couple of times and just skied up to the lift an hour early and got on, no one said a word to me. Pretty sick being the only one on the mountain. There's definitely not enough people doing it to steal the good lines. And the type of people that do it dont shred anyway

 

[primalskis]

Crested Butte had something like this before Vail bought the Muellers out. They called it "first tracks" or something like that. I was out there a couple of times and just skied up to the lift an hour early and got on, no one said a word to me. Pretty sick being the only one on the mountain. There's definitely not enough people doing it to steal the good lines. And the type of people that do it dont shred anyway

These comments are reassuring. I had no idea so many places have done this ,, and that it hasn't gotten out of hand. Hopefully it remains that way...

 

[WoFIowz]

Sounds like this already is a thing based on comments but isn't really an issue. It's lazy but it's still a business. Interesting take on lessons. I'll just continue to leave my house at 6pm, and drive through the snowstorm, adding an extra 2hrs, to be at the resort by 6am the following day.

 

[mountaindewgirl]

Also nothing worse than kooks cracked out on coffee and stressed from work teying to maximize their vacation and ready to fight or be an asshole to anyone they think might be in there way.

Hey don't you talk about me that way! ?

 

[c-fries]

Yoo I taught skiing at Big Sky last year and worked in the ski school office. It was hilarious seeing these rich jerry tourists showing up at 7am - "hey so we're here for the first tracks" - and then they just get on Ramcharger and literally do 3 blue cruiser runs that have a half an inch of "pow" on top of them.

And before and after they were always so fired up lol "My god Winston this is just going to be EPIC" and then "Theodore that was the best skiing of my life!"

Oh well. They're stoked and they're rarely tracking out any real goods anyways.

 

[SavageBiff]

Sounds like this already is a thing based on comments but isn't really an issue. It's lazy but it's still a business. Interesting take on lessons. I'll just continue to leave my house at 6pm, and drive through the snowstorm, adding an extra 2hrs, to be at the resort by 6am the following day.

Are they really lessons tho? I don’t need lessons, less o leeps is teaching... but I was gonna purchase some early tracks if I can when we head west, would be nice just to know the mountains layout to make skiing more efficient than mapping on my own, big sky in particular

 

[SendyMcSendyface]

Targhee has a thing like this called Early Tracks, basically you get on the chair at 8 instead of 9, but have to stick with the ski school boss, and stay in a group, so the ET crew just rips blue runs. Ski school always gets real pissy about it too, if the chair isn't 100% ready to go, no matter the reason. Shit sucks cause they always manage to get in the way while we are trying to open the chair, and we've then gotta keep a guy on the buttons who could otherwise be doing more important shit.

 

[andrewsmart]

whistler has been offering 'fresh tracks breakfast' for years. pay extra, hop in the line early with a bunch of other people with fresh tracks tickets, hope you get let on (there is a limited number who are allowed up, but you can buy fresh tracks tickets in advanced and just use it on whatever day you want). either a) go in for buffet breakfast then get pow, or b) get pow laps in then hope you make it to the lodge in time to shove bacon in your pockets and keep skiing.

The thing about fresh tracks at whistler though is that the alpine is never open that early to ski the good pow runs. Mid - mountain pow is still good, but if you don't do fresh tracks you wont miss out on the best snow.