Park Skis

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IDK2024

Member
I'm new to the park, my goals would be buttering, rails, and small jumps like 180s/360s (no flips). I'm 5'9, 175lbs, ski east coast and do basically anything that doesn't have bumps.

I'm currently on 172cm 2023 Enforcer 88s and unknown length 2015 Armada ar7shttps://www.evo.com/outlet/skis/armada-ar7-2015. I quite like the Armadas for goofing off and skiing switch but for the life of me I cannot get them to butter. Popped my boot out of the binding at Din 7 trying to nose butter in the house, and on snow it felt like I was either going to rip the binding out or fall on my face before getting them on their noses. Was able to kinda sorta tail butter for like half a second. I'm hoping this is actually a gear issue and not a skill issue, so I've been shopping for softer skis. I'd like to be able to make it down a groomer although I don't need them to be an all-mountain ski. I've never done rails and recently fell on my thigh trying to slide a box sideways, so I'm starting from square one there.

The "short" list of skis I've been looking at would be

Armada Edollo

J skis All Play

Line Tom Wallisch

Line Sir Francis Bacon

Icelantic Nomad

Salomon Depart 1.0

All around 176-178cm, just because that's what I'm guessing would be a good size for me

All of these are basically based off of the Newschoolers Roofbox in-depth reviews. What would be a good way for me to start at least narrowing these down / do any of you have personal experience with any of them? Closest I've gotten is seeing somebody on the Wallisch's at the park last week. None of the mountains near me demo park skis, and the J skis demo outlet doesn't demo the Allplay or Joyrides.

Thanks
 
Don't know how to edit, what about the Mirus Cor? Looks fun as hell, can butter, but seems like it's maybe not the best for rails but can do them?
 
14596063:IDK2024 said:
Don't know how to edit, what about the Mirus Cor? Looks fun as hell, can butter, but seems like it's maybe not the best for rails but can do them?
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Paying 800 for park skis is dumb af, get something cheap from the spring sales like some Armadas
 
14596072:migidimigi said:
Paying 800 for park skis is dumb af, get something cheap from the spring sales like some Armadas
Click to expand...

only armadas I've been impressed by are the edollos which are ~$120 cheaper with sales right now.

reviews say the new arv is stiffer and harder to butter so that's not happening
 
14596087:IDK2024 said:
only armadas I've been impressed by are the edollos which are ~$120 cheaper with sales right now.

reviews say the new arv is stiffer and harder to butter so that's not happening
Click to expand...

Edollos are valid.
 
I wouldn't go spending bank on park skis. Like others have said, see if you can find a pair on FB marketplace or something that you can learn on before spending big bucks. Your skis are going to take a beating when learning park so it's not really worth it to buy brand new skis.

If you're really set on buying new skis the dollo may be a good option although armada doesn't have a great reputation with their sidewalls of late. The TW pro is dog shit you'll most likely end up snapping them like everyone else. the Line bacon is definitely more of a backcountry/all mountain ski, I would steer clear for specifically park. Best bet is the J's or try and get your hands on the new salomons. Do more research though besides just roofbox reviews. Talk to people at the hill, check video reviews online, check reviews on websites. If you have questions about specific skis fire away but it's a mixed bag on what you'll get for an answer on here
 
Only concern from me is that the Edollos are like kinda an advanced ski, which I know sounds dumb to say, but like it took me a while to get used to them. A wider ski, and they aren’t as buttery as you would think from king Henrik. The Bdogs might be a better option especially if you only wanna do mostly rails. Or like some others said go cheap, if not used maybe a sale line chronic or TW pro, prob won’t last you too long, but will be good skis to help learn and progress on.
 
14596087:IDK2024 said:
only armadas I've been impressed by are the edollos which are ~$120 cheaper with sales right now.

reviews say the new arv is stiffer and harder to butter so that's not happening
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What have you been reading?? New arv 94 & 100 are way softer than any previous versions
 
14596140:IDK2024 said:
I guess 2023 version as I didn't find a 2024 review. Did they change the ski for 2024?
https://www.newschoolers.com/news/read/In-Depth-Review-2021-Armada-ARV-106-Roofbox
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do not base your opinion of the ARV off this review. That review is for the ARV 106 which is more of an all mountain/pow ski. its going to be heavier and stiffer with a lot more rocker than the 94 and 100. Either way the construction is fairly similar. Search the threads on armada sidewalls though and that should give you all the info you need for these skis
 
If buttering is important and you won't be going on big jumps I would suggest some Blends. You can usually get last years model for almost half off in April/May.

They are super flexible and are solid on rails. Pretty durable for the amount of play they have. TWs are a stiffer park ski in my experience and probably ride similar to your Armadas. I have only rode the TWs so guessing there but my 2 cents.
 
Not sure what I'm supposed to be getting from this. Ctrl-F on the written review brings up the Edollo, Blend, and K2 Reckoner fornbuttering, and only the Fischer Nightstick even mentions the word "rail"

14596154:migidimigi said:
Dude you are lost af, go check this out to get a baseline idea on what you should look for and what not
Click to expand...
 
You may be overestimating how much your skis are supposed to bend when you butter. If the bindings are off the ground it’s a butter. I weigh less than you and have no problem ollieing and buttering on arv 86s. You are probably not gonna be able to Griselda flip with them but you can def do a nosebutter 3

[video]https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/1088913/trim-5EB0810F-47FE-4CA8-B83A-9DA7072E91BB-MOV[/video]

**This post was edited on Mar 5th 2024 at 2:37:29pm
 
topic:IDK2024 said:
I'm new to the park, my goals would be buttering, rails, and small jumps like 180s/360s (no flips). I'm 5'9, 175lbs, ski east coast and do basically anything that doesn't have bumps.

I'm currently on 172cm 2023 Enforcer 88s and unknown length 2015 Armada ar7shttps://www.evo.com/outlet/skis/armada-ar7-2015. I quite like the Armadas for goofing off and skiing switch but for the life of me I cannot get them to butter. Popped my boot out of the binding at Din 7 trying to nose butter in the house, and on snow it felt like I was either going to rip the binding out or fall on my face before getting them on their noses. Was able to kinda sorta tail butter for like half a second. I'm hoping this is actually a gear issue and not a skill issue, so I've been shopping for softer skis. I'd like to be able to make it down a groomer although I don't need them to be an all-mountain ski. I've never done rails and recently fell on my thigh trying to slide a box sideways, so I'm starting from square one there.

The "short" list of skis I've been looking at would be

Armada Edollo

J skis All Play

Line Tom Wallisch

Line Sir Francis Bacon

Icelantic Nomad

Salomon Depart 1.0

All around 176-178cm, just because that's what I'm guessing would be a good size for me

All of these are basically based off of the Newschoolers Roofbox in-depth reviews. What would be a good way for me to start at least narrowing these down / do any of you have personal experience with any of them? Closest I've gotten is seeing somebody on the Wallisch's at the park last week. None of the mountains near me demo park skis, and the J skis demo outlet doesn't demo the Allplay or Joyrides.

Thanks
Click to expand...

189 wet
 
I popped out of the binding before I got anything off the ground when trying to nose butter.

I don't know if it's because the ski is 9 years old, the technology is old, it's pretty damn stiff, it's full camber, I'm just bad, or some combo of all of them but I cannot get anything off the ground when trying to nose butter.

14596197:icy_park_jump said:
You may be overestimating how much your skis are supposed to bend when you butter. If the bindings are off the ground it’s a butter. I weigh less than you and have no problem ollieing and buttering on arv 86s. You are probably not gonna be able to Griselda flip with them but you can def do a nosebutter 3

[video]https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/1088913/trim-5EB0810F-47FE-4CA8-B83A-9DA7072E91BB-MOV[/video]

**This post was edited on Mar 5th 2024 at 2:37:29pm
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14596291:IDK2024 said:
I popped out of the binding before I got anything off the ground when trying to nose butter.

I don't know if it's because the ski is 9 years old, the technology is old, it's pretty damn stiff, it's full camber, I'm just bad, or some combo of all of them but I cannot get anything off the ground when trying to nose butter.
Click to expand...

All I'm trying to say is you don't need a super soft ski in order to butter, but maybe that's what you want, and there's nothing wrong with that. Pretty much any decent park ski will be fine for learning the tricks you want to learn. See what you can find for cheap on clearance this year. I'm going to go against the grain here and recommend that you do not get super long skis.

**This post was edited on Mar 5th 2024 at 10:15:43pm
 
Consider ON3P, Deviation, Fatypus or Vishnu. I love the small brands that make higher quality products than the big brand factory skis
 
14596291:IDK2024 said:
I popped out of the binding before I got anything off the ground when trying to nose butter.

I don't know if it's because the ski is 9 years old, the technology is old, it's pretty damn stiff, it's full camber, I'm just bad, or some combo of all of them but I cannot get anything off the ground when trying to nose butter.
Click to expand...

it’s your din, has nothing to do with anything other than din atm.
 
14596334:mrk127 said:
Consider ON3P, Deviation, Fatypus or Vishnu. I love the small brands that make higher quality products than the big brand factory skis
Click to expand...

The Vishnus seem too soft. The problem is finding well-done reviews/first hand accounts for the smaller brands, I'll never be able to demo them so reviews and finding people who ski them (difficult) is all I have
 
leaning to the depart when they release more sizes

14/15m radius so not far off from the mirus cor, seems like a happy medium between "fun groomer ski that can be used in park" and "good park ski that survives groomers"
 
14596087:IDK2024 said:
only armadas I've been impressed by are the edollos which are ~$120 cheaper with sales right now.

reviews say the new arv is stiffer and harder to butter so that's not happening
Click to expand...

dont get armada bro shit quality
 
The wets are really soft but they make other models. And if you see a set of skis you like from a smaller brand then make a post and ask. Tons of people on here ride Vishnu/on3p/moment/fatypus and can answer your questions. Fatypus has super buttery skis but they hold up super well on and off trail

14596345:IDK2024 said:
The Vishnus seem too soft. The problem is finding well-done reviews/first hand accounts for the smaller brands, I'll never be able to demo them so reviews and finding people who ski them (difficult) is all I have
Click to expand...
 
Few things here. The depart isn't as soft as the pros make it out to be. It's relatively stiff so you're going to have to lean into it to get them off the ground. I'm sure you can learn to do it but it isn't going to be as easy as with a softer ski. Like you said probably wait till they drop more lengths and people have more time to review them

14596369:IDK2024 said:
leaning to the depart when they release more sizes

14/15m radius so not far off from the mirus cor, seems like a happy medium between "fun groomer ski that can be used in park" and "good park ski that survives groomers"
Click to expand...
 
Yeah tbh dude like I said before maybe look into a sale price, for some line TE pros or even honey badgers, there is a difference in level of skis, not saying you couldn’t handle it, but some skis are just more beginner friendly. And you probably don’t need a crazy side wall. It would be more beneficial imo to get a lighter smaller ski so you can get comfortable with rotations and spins.
 
14596369:IDK2024 said:
leaning to the depart when they release more sizes

14/15m radius so not far off from the mirus cor, seems like a happy medium between "fun groomer ski that can be used in park" and "good park ski that survives groomers"
Click to expand...

the depart will not be a soft ski
 
what makes you say that?

the roofbox reviewer is my height and weighs less and said he was able to butter on the pre release ski and was told that the actual ski will be softer

14596423:Voyage86 said:
the depart will not be a soft ski
Click to expand...
 
14596710:IDK2024 said:
what makes you say that?

the roofbox reviewer is my height and weighs less and said he was able to butter on the pre release ski and was told that the actual ski will be softer
Click to expand...

"According to Sami, the final production model will be a little softer than what I skied, but the version I have is certainly not a soft ski, and none of the versions I’ve tried/handled have been soft in the way a Line Bacon or Vishnu Wet is soft. Sure, the team makes them look easy to flex but it wouldn’t be the first time a ski looked a lot softer than it is in the hands of the pros (all ON3Ps for example, the K2 Poacher…). I’ll update this if I ski the final ski but on my version, the flex is fairly smooth and fairly stiff. There’s no hinge point which I really like, just a smooth, solid ski throughout (similar to the K2 Poacher)" from the roofbox review.

A little softer is relative. I still think it'll be as stiff if not stiffer than the AR7's.
 
14596710:IDK2024 said:
what makes you say that?

the roofbox reviewer is my height and weighs less and said he was able to butter on the pre release ski and was told that the actual ski will be softer
Click to expand...

no, he said it was as soft as an arv 106 which is not soft at all and he said the production model will be slightly softer so still not soft at all. good skiers can butter stiff skis by balancing on the rocker rather than flexing the ski a whole lot. it’s somewhat difficult though. that is what twig was likely doing on the depart. yes it does press well but it is not a soft ski.
 
14596803:Voyage86 said:
no, he said it was as soft as an arv 106 which is not soft at all and he said the production model will be slightly softer so still not soft at all. good skiers can butter stiff skis by balancing on the rocker rather than flexing the ski a whole lot. it’s somewhat difficult though. that is what twig was likely doing on the depart. yes it does press well but it is not a soft ski.
Click to expand...

so do you think i wont be able to butter it? i have 30 pounds on him but the only ski i've tried to butter is my ar7s which are full camber and have no rocker at all, so I have no idea what that's like
 
14596840:IDK2024 said:
so do you think i wont be able to butter it? i have 30 pounds on him but the only ski i've tried to butter is my ar7s which are full camber and have no rocker at all, so I have no idea what that's like
Click to expand...

Again my aforementioned reply above, there are different levels of skis and it’s okay to not be at an advanced level yet. I would personally not recommend the ski to you based off what I’ve heard.
 
14596840:IDK2024 said:
so do you think i wont be able to butter it? i have 30 pounds on him but the only ski i've tried to butter is my ar7s which are full camber and have no rocker at all, so I have no idea what that's like
Click to expand...

if you have no practice buttering so far i do not think you will be able to butter it in a satisfactory way. and as you’ve figured out it’s basically impossible to butter flat rocker skis. but as people have said just get somthing truly soft and cheap. look for the line blend for starters. people will tell you the durability is crap, and it is crap for people who ski hard and slam the sidewalls and tips into rails all day but for your purposes i think it will be good.
 
14596871:Voyage86 said:
if you have no practice buttering so far i do not think you will be able to butter it in a satisfactory way. and as you’ve figured out it’s basically impossible to butter flat rocker skis. but as people have said just get somthing truly soft and cheap. look for the line blend for starters. people will tell you the durability is crap, and it is crap for people who ski hard and slam the sidewalls and tips into rails all day but for your purposes i think it will be good.
Click to expand...

doesn't sound like a fit for me. I ski hard, and I want to learn rails as well. Using a pair of skis for butters/jumps and then having to swap to do rails sounds nonviable to me.

**This post was edited on Mar 8th 2024 at 3:12:22am
 
14596803:Voyage86 said:
no, he said it was as soft as an arv 106 which is not soft at all and he said the production model will be slightly softer so still not soft at all. good skiers can butter stiff skis by balancing on the rocker rather than flexing the ski a whole lot. it’s somewhat difficult though. that is what twig was likely doing on the depart. yes it does press well but it is not a soft ski.
Click to expand...

really wish i could find a mountain near me that demos park skis. Feel like I'm just getting more confused
 
Idk where about you live but most of the bigger mountains whether it be out east or out west have demos. If the mountain shop doesn't have them there's usually some.shops in town that do. And bigger mountains so demo days where manufacturers bring a bunch of skis and people can demo different models. If you know of a brand you like you could email them or look on their website to see where you can demo or if they have a demo day

14596899:IDK2024 said:
really wish i could find a mountain near me that demos park skis. Feel like I'm just getting more confused
Click to expand...
 
I think what is going to be the most beneficial for you is to figure out what is the most important quality in a ski that you are looking for. Do you need a ski that is stable for jump/higher speed runs? Do you want a ski to learn butters? Do you want more of a all mountain park skis? Like if you need a ski that is going to charge hard and be able to hold up on jump landings then a soft ski just isn't in the cards for you. You can definitely learn to butter a stiff ski it'll just take more time and practice. On the flip side of you want a soft buttery ski then you're going to lose out on stability. Gotta figure out what's most important to you and keep in mind everybody's opinion is subjective and people have different ideas of what is stiff and soft

14596896:IDK2024 said:
doesn't sound like a fit for me. I ski hard, and I want to learn rails as well. Using a pair of skis for butters/jumps and then having to swap to do rails sounds nonviable to me.

**This post was edited on Mar 8th 2024 at 3:12:22am
Click to expand...
 
14596896:IDK2024 said:
doesn't sound like a fit for me. I ski hard, and I want to learn rails as well. Using a pair of skis for butters/jumps and then having to swap to do rails sounds nonviable to me.

**This post was edited on Mar 8th 2024 at 3:12:22am
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bro this entire thread you’ve been talking about butters but ok. also i’d add that a stiffer ski will be better at jumps not worse. read a couple reviews on line TW pros as people have said, they are very cheap and are good park skis for what you are looking for, you can butter them ok as well. it’s not that deep of a decision. i think you should start doing your own research and stop asking people to feed you readily availbe info. just start on youtube with best park skis for 2024 or 2023, if those skis aren’t burly enough for you than you can go to best all mountain twin tips, go from there to reading blister reviews, ski essential ski tests, the roof box reviews on here and figure out what sounds good to you.
 
14596907:WittyCong said:
I think what is going to be the most beneficial for you is to figure out what is the most important quality in a ski that you are looking for. Do you need a ski that is stable for jump/higher speed runs? Do you want a ski to learn butters? Do you want more of a all mountain park skis? Like if you need a ski that is going to charge hard and be able to hold up on jump landings then a soft ski just isn't in the cards for you. You can definitely learn to butter a stiff ski it'll just take more time and practice. On the flip side of you want a soft buttery ski then you're going to lose out on stability. Gotta figure out what's most important to you and keep in mind everybody's opinion is subjective and people have different ideas of what is stiff and soft
Click to expand...

Will it be easier to butter a stiffer ski with rocker versus a ski without? According to this sitehttps://soothski.com/compare/?_values_&selected_rows=[9441,9997]&tab="Compare" my 172cm enforcer 88s are less stiff than the 178cm arv 94s, the enforcers have some rocker so I guess I could try them next time I'm out. I haven't seen any mathematical data on the AR7 stiffness so I have nothing to compare that to.
 
14597095:IDK2024 said:
Will it be easier to butter a stiffer ski with rocker versus a ski without? According to this sitehttps://soothski.com/compare/?_values_&selected_rows=[9441,9997]&tab="Compare" my 172cm enforcer 88s are less stiff than the 178cm arv 94s, the enforcers have some rocker so I guess I could try them next time I'm out. I haven't seen any mathematical data on the AR7 stiffness so I have nothing to compare that to.
Click to expand...

It’s not that deep bro, all skis will butter yes, but some are easier, sacrifices have to be made. Do you want soft skis, which will do butters easier and I find it personally easier on rails, or a stiffer ski better for jumps and high speeds. That’s the question
 
Like I said before everybody opinion is subjective. But that being said I'm gonna call bullshit on the review. Enforcer and arv are two completely different skis. Enforcer is a directional ski, arv is a twin. Enforcer has metal in it so it's going to be way stiffer than the arv especially with he rear mounting point. Rocker has nothing to do with buttery skis. It's all about core material and the layup of the different layers. You're too in the weeds man, stop getting hung up on numbers because the "flex scale" is different from manufacturer to manufacturer. You need to educate yourself about skis cuz we're just talking in circles at this point. Good luck on your hunt

14597095:IDK2024 said:
Will it be easier to butter a stiffer ski with rocker versus a ski without? According to this sitehttps://soothski.com/compare/?_values_&selected_rows=[9441,9997]&tab="Compare" my 172cm enforcer 88s are less stiff than the 178cm arv 94s, the enforcers have some rocker so I guess I could try them next time I'm out. I haven't seen any mathematical data on the AR7 stiffness so I have nothing to compare that to.
Click to expand...

**This post was edited on Mar 8th 2024 at 11:00:37pm
 
14597104:WittyCong said:
Like I said before everybody opinion is subjective. But that being said I'm gonna call bullshit on the review. Enforcer and arv are two completely different skis. Enforcer is a directional ski, arv is a twin. Enforcer has metal in it so it's going to be way stiffer than the arv especially with he rear mounting point. Rocker has nothing to do with buttery skis. It's all about core material and the layup of the different layers. You're too in the weeds man, stop getting hung up on numbers because the "flex scale" is different from manufacturer to manufacturer. You need to educate yourself about skis cuz we're just talking in circles at this point. Good luck on your hunt

**This post was edited on Mar 8th 2024 at 11:00:37pm
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everything you said expect rocker profile for sure counts big time in butters. think on3p
 
I guess you're right. But the rocker is really only there to ensure your tips don't get hung up which I suppose is important in butters. Rocker does nothing really to affect the stiffness of the ski but it important for butters I will give you that one

14597105:Voyage86 said:
everything you said expect rocker profile for sure counts big time in butters. think on3p
Click to expand...

**This post was edited on Mar 8th 2024 at 11:18:54pm
 
14597108:WittyCong said:
I guess you're right. But the rocker is really only there to ensure your tips don't get hung up which I suppose is important in butters. Rocker does nothing really to affect the stiffness of the ski but it important for butters I will give you that one

**This post was edited on Mar 8th 2024 at 11:18:54pm
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rocker has nothing do with the stiffness but has everything to do with the balance point of the butter. Skis with huge rocker don’t need to be super soft because good skiers balance back on the rocker rather than flex the shit out of the ski. think of a half circle with the round part on the ground and the flat part facing up. then imagine it rolls back a couple of degrees, tilting the flat part back so it’s not level. that’s how you butter on the rocker.
 
put some foam exercise mats down in the house. from a stand still I was able to tail butter the AR7s and Enforcers pretty easily. Still can't get any movement whatsoever trying to nose butter the AR7s but I got up a bit on the noses on the Enforcers. Much less than when tail buttering but way more than on the AR7s
 
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