OSHAWA SKI CLUB...today in the PARK
- Thread starter GORDON
- Start date
linkray
Member
that was such a sick day, some of the nicest skiing whether this year for sure. Not gonna lie though, I don't agree with your mandatory helmet policy. My buddy had to pay ten extra bucks just to rent a helmet cause theyre required in the park...now I understand the liabilty issue, but hes fuckin 20 years old and can make his own decision about whether he wants to risk his own skull or not. I can understand making little kids wear helmets in your park, or having a park pass requiring riders to have a minimum set of skills before entering, but I can't understand forcing someone who's already mad strapped for cash to go out and pay for a helmet just so he can ride for the day, seems to me that the OSC is way too worried about liabilty issues, I mean, a dude wants to ride without a helmet and crack his head, thats his choice.
Well....if it was that easy....you know, to let others make SMART choices for themselves...we wouldn't have too. It is a requirement of our insurance, and ALOT of other places require helmets in their parks...ALL of the rest...highly recommend it...
In MY opinion...if your making choices about your SAFETY and well being based on costs.....you need someone else telling you what should do.
How can you understand little kids wearing helmets...yet not your buddy or yourself?
And, unfortunitely....if "a dude wants to ride without a helmet and crack his head"....most of the time their mommies and daddies don't agree...and come back to sue to pay for the "dudes" shiney new wheelchair....20 years old or not.....its a crazy world man...I didn't invent it....I just inforce it....
Glad you otherwise enjoyed your day....because really, thats what its all about...and thats all we want.
Cheers
In MY opinion...if your making choices about your SAFETY and well being based on costs.....you need someone else telling you what should do.
How can you understand little kids wearing helmets...yet not your buddy or yourself?
And, unfortunitely....if "a dude wants to ride without a helmet and crack his head"....most of the time their mommies and daddies don't agree...and come back to sue to pay for the "dudes" shiney new wheelchair....20 years old or not.....its a crazy world man...I didn't invent it....I just inforce it....
Glad you otherwise enjoyed your day....because really, thats what its all about...and thats all we want.
Cheers
linkray
Member
The liability issue doesn't really come into play if you make someone sign a waiver to use the park, and I'm not saying helmets aren't a good idea. I've hit my head way too many times to not wear one.
But heres my issue: People trying to make others who are responsible for their own decisions to wear a helmet. Its your head, you do with it what you want. Ten dollars isn't a lot to pay for a helmet, I agree, but paying forty dollars for a lift ticket, expecting to be able to ride the park, and then being forced to pay an extra ten, is a little bit of bullshit. Nomensteven, I dunno if you understand the concept, but a struggling university student trying to pay their tuition tends to be pretty fucking strapped for cash, and buying a helmet isnt exactly cheap when your living dollar to dollar, only getting to ski once in a while because mommy and daddy don't pay for your gas to get to the hill and your lift ticket.
Its a difficult debate, but when it all comes down to it, I can only support freedom of choice. Even if that choice might not be the wisest one (not wearing a helmet).
But heres my issue: People trying to make others who are responsible for their own decisions to wear a helmet. Its your head, you do with it what you want. Ten dollars isn't a lot to pay for a helmet, I agree, but paying forty dollars for a lift ticket, expecting to be able to ride the park, and then being forced to pay an extra ten, is a little bit of bullshit. Nomensteven, I dunno if you understand the concept, but a struggling university student trying to pay their tuition tends to be pretty fucking strapped for cash, and buying a helmet isnt exactly cheap when your living dollar to dollar, only getting to ski once in a while because mommy and daddy don't pay for your gas to get to the hill and your lift ticket.
Its a difficult debate, but when it all comes down to it, I can only support freedom of choice. Even if that choice might not be the wisest one (not wearing a helmet).
KRASHED
Active member
Im sorry but did you even read Gordons post? You're still not explaining the serious problems with your parents coming back to the park bitching that their kid is now a vegetable from a poorly shaped inrun or a burr in a rail...Some kid out in Whistler broke his leg by entering the Gamecube park and cranking himself off a jump that was definatly not in his skill level. It says right on the ticket as a disclaimer that you take full responsibility for any damages or injury that come your way yet the kid and his family still got compensated with millions of dollars.
Get the situation now? Follow the rules so the rest of us don't suffer!
Get the situation now? Follow the rules so the rest of us don't suffer!
Linkray..
I'm not saying that you shouldn't have freedom of choice....you should...unfortunitly, the society we live in in rapidly losing track of reality when it comes to responsibility for personal actions...
Believe me when I tell you...and I've worked in this industry for 16 years, most people feel that when entering OUR facilities...and when I say that I mean our memberships, that they should be able to do whatever they want, however they want....because THEY signed a waiver....HOWEVER, WE as the facility operators, must practice DUE DILIGENCE, WE must ensure that WE have taken all means necessary to ensure that our patrons are safe.
You really need to understand what LIABILITY means...I'm not being an ass here, but I don't think you REALLY understand the concept of it...if you did, you would understand our position.
As for the Helmet issue, you shouldn't be surprised to find MOST resorts you visit mandate them...and more will as time goes by, and people become less responsible for their own actions....
Cheers,
I'm not saying that you shouldn't have freedom of choice....you should...unfortunitly, the society we live in in rapidly losing track of reality when it comes to responsibility for personal actions...
Believe me when I tell you...and I've worked in this industry for 16 years, most people feel that when entering OUR facilities...and when I say that I mean our memberships, that they should be able to do whatever they want, however they want....because THEY signed a waiver....HOWEVER, WE as the facility operators, must practice DUE DILIGENCE, WE must ensure that WE have taken all means necessary to ensure that our patrons are safe.
You really need to understand what LIABILITY means...I'm not being an ass here, but I don't think you REALLY understand the concept of it...if you did, you would understand our position.
As for the Helmet issue, you shouldn't be surprised to find MOST resorts you visit mandate them...and more will as time goes by, and people become less responsible for their own actions....
Cheers,
linkray
Member
haha, lots of response here, at least theres a valid debate going on. ok first of all, krashed, that KID in whistler was probably under 18, therefore his parents are able to sue for him and I'm not arguing with the fact that if your under 18 you should have to wear a helmet.Also, the fact that they were rewarded damages leads to a whole other issue I have with parts of our legal system, but this is where the debate stems from. Gordon, its your job to enforce the rules of the hill, and if the hill HAS to have that law in place because of insurance that's fine, it doesnt change the fact that its bullshit and I dont agree with it.
It seems the concensus around here is that I don't "get" the situation. Believe me, I understand the situation and the liability issues, but I dont have to agree with them. It seems that some of you have mistaken my disagreement with current policies and legality issues as a personal attack on Gordon and the hill. Its not intended as an attack, just an expression of opinion, and I still believe that you should have control over your own head, and whteher or not your willing to risk injury to it (again, if your an adult, IE. legally responsible for your own actions etc).
I could write a fucking book on the social implications that stem when people lose control of and responsibilty for their own actions, its such a minor issue, but what next? Forcing people to wear certain clothes on the hill so they dont freeze to death? Removing the terrain park completely because of the danger it presents to beginner riders? I mean, you have to look at the issues in the bigger picture, yes we're keeping people safer and stopping the hill from getting sued, but your taking away someones freedom to CHOOSE.
linkray
Member
As much as I don't believe that a hill should force someone to wear a helmet, this belief goes hand in hand with the fact that I dont think a hill should be LIABLE when someone hurts themself doing something on the slopes. I understand that the club is liable if someone hurts themself, but do you agree with that? I mean if we want to keep the ability to choose in the hands of the user, hills should fight against policies like the one the Oshawa Ski Club has with its insurance company. If hills just give in and start forcing people to wear helmets, god knows where it will stop, once people start sueing the hill because they fell walking in their ski boots or something. I mean the root of the problem comes from our legal system and increasingly protective social norms, but should we give in to these flaws of the system?
girl_jibBer
Member
dude...did you just get out of a sociology lecture or something???? You sound like you are regurgitating some professor's lecture....
gambino500014
Active member
look at that radical cross
Linkray....I never thought you were targetting me or our resort....in fact, I enjoy DECENT debate on such issues. I understand completely what you believe, and am very supportive of the concept. Unfortunitely, when translating our personal beliefs into reality, too many pieces of the puzzle no longer fit. I agree, you should be able to make that choice...it is YOUR head after all. However, reality has proven that people do not take responsibility for their own actions AFTER the fact, though they say they will BEFORE.
You mention "whats next"...and closing parks...it was only a couple of years ago that the insurance providers...of which at that time there were 2, now we have 3 to chose from (as opposed to hundreds or thousands of carriers for other industries)...wanted to shut down all the parks, parks would only exist for those resorts who could afford to "self insure"...which means to maintain an account with ample funds to cover a catastrophic incident....this is unsurmountable to all but a few (Interwest does this I believe).
Freedom of Choice is important to our society, however due diligence and planned protection for the MASSES, is imparative to the protection of Freedom of Choice as we move into the future. When someones Freedom of Choice begins to have negative effects on the MASSES, such as freedom to put oneself in a position of danger, or risk of increased injury, the ability to maintain FREEDOM OF CHOICE for the masses (or general society) becomes jeopardized.
I've been out of school for a LONG time, and have spent my career to this point being vocal to the CONTROLLED protection of our facilities, I believe helmets are a necessary requirement in our park. I don't believe we should have to tell people this, but reality says we do.
I've seen too many serious injuries in my time, I'm only 30 years old, yet I have seen life altering injuries, and even death..first hand, I hope you all can understand that this issue is more than just bowing down to our insurers, its agreeing with out insurers on the issue, for the protection of our general population. I don't WANT to see anyones life altered when there could have been another choice.
Unfortunitely Linkray, I know exactly where you are coming from, I agree with your position to an extent as I stated, however, there exists two issues, and unfortunitely, both effect your freedom of choice in one way or another.
I haven't written an essay since college...
Now, lets get out there and rip it up....
You mention "whats next"...and closing parks...it was only a couple of years ago that the insurance providers...of which at that time there were 2, now we have 3 to chose from (as opposed to hundreds or thousands of carriers for other industries)...wanted to shut down all the parks, parks would only exist for those resorts who could afford to "self insure"...which means to maintain an account with ample funds to cover a catastrophic incident....this is unsurmountable to all but a few (Interwest does this I believe).
Freedom of Choice is important to our society, however due diligence and planned protection for the MASSES, is imparative to the protection of Freedom of Choice as we move into the future. When someones Freedom of Choice begins to have negative effects on the MASSES, such as freedom to put oneself in a position of danger, or risk of increased injury, the ability to maintain FREEDOM OF CHOICE for the masses (or general society) becomes jeopardized.
I've been out of school for a LONG time, and have spent my career to this point being vocal to the CONTROLLED protection of our facilities, I believe helmets are a necessary requirement in our park. I don't believe we should have to tell people this, but reality says we do.
I've seen too many serious injuries in my time, I'm only 30 years old, yet I have seen life altering injuries, and even death..first hand, I hope you all can understand that this issue is more than just bowing down to our insurers, its agreeing with out insurers on the issue, for the protection of our general population. I don't WANT to see anyones life altered when there could have been another choice.
Unfortunitely Linkray, I know exactly where you are coming from, I agree with your position to an extent as I stated, however, there exists two issues, and unfortunitely, both effect your freedom of choice in one way or another.
I haven't written an essay since college...
Now, lets get out there and rip it up....
linkray
Member
Valid points Gordon, I guess your set in your opinion and I in mine...who knows, maybe mine will change after some more years of skiing. I would like right now, however, to see society smarten up and realize that people should be held responsible for their OWN actions, although apparently that's not the case.
And yeah, Ryno's right, debating this issue any more would be beating a dead horse.
hope to see everyone out at the hill
And yeah, Ryno's right, debating this issue any more would be beating a dead horse.
hope to see everyone out at the hill
Feb 24....Slopetyle
March 24...Big Air
Watch www.oshawaskiclub.com for details coming..
Ryan....but I do it backwards...doesn't that count?
March 24...Big Air
Watch www.oshawaskiclub.com for details coming..
Ryan....but I do it backwards...doesn't that count?
Petecanski
Member
That looks sweet, but I'm still stoked I moved to whistler.
girl_jibBer
Member
lol...
AMcCraw
Member
hahaha garrett eddy was rippen wit me today and he went to hit the 45 foota and he cased it bi like 3 feet, double ejected and face planted down the landin. and of course he gets up smiling ear to ear laughing saying he wants to do it again but mayb a lil more speed. haha some times that kid is hilarious.