Opinions on Guns (CNN Debate Morgan VS Pratt)

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prettygood

Member
Since I`m from Europe i might have a complete different view on things like that, but can somebody please explain to me how the title of this video is that "Larry Pratt DESTROYS Piers Morgan" and not the other way around?

I mean, is there really anyone on this site supporting the argument Pratt brings up that "teachers should carry guns to protect the kids at school"?

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My views differ depending on where a person lives. So if someone is a gun enthusiast how much of a weirdo they are depends on if they live in a country or are crammed into a little apartment in the city or living in a middle class suburb.

But the pro gun people on this website represent themselves pretty well and are quite responsible. I respect just about everyone on here who defends their rights to have a gun and most of them seem pretty justified and responsible having one.

Its a tough question. Unfortunately guns are a big part of society here unlike in Europe.
 
That english guy is a total prick. No teachers should not fucking carry guns, but mostly the other things Pratt said were on point.
 
There are currently about 45000 gun threads on the first page of nsg. Is it really necessary that you created a new thread just for this?
 
If the teacher had a concealed carry permit it wouldnt be a bad idea because school shootings are becoming more common. on the other hand the majority of teachers ive ever had would never get a concealed carry permit or own a gun (they are liberals) so I dont think this would really make a big difference.
 
that overly emotional gigantic English douche bag got destroyed. he almost had an argument, then started yelling and resorting to acting like a 12 year old in an attempt to make the other guy, who had a good argument, look bad. it didnt work.

i dont even completely agree with the whole, lets arm all the teachers thing. if a teacher happens to have a concealed carry, then im open to letting them carry it in school, but everyone saying we NEED to have teachers with guns is a little silly IMO.

but Morgan didnt have an argument, he's a prime example of your typical completely ignorant media basing their opinions off of their poor knowledge and emotions. what the other guy said about areas with relaxed gun laws having less gun crime than Europe was spot on. you go to areas like where i live where everyones got a gun, the gun laws are extremely relaxed, and you see extremely little if any gun crime at all, i can walk down the street with my rifle, shoot targets outside with my neighbors out, etc.. and its normal business..

but you go to these cities like Chicago and DC with the strictest gun laws in the country and they have the highest rate of gun crime in the country. Now im not saying its a 100% direct result of the strict gun laws. but i think its a combination of multiple things. these areas and their sub culture making guns out to be this forbidden, life destroying, powerful tool, gives firearms this image and reputation of giving you power, making you stronger, better, above everyone. if you wanna be a badass, get a gun and shoot people, makes it pretty attractive to a lot of people.. that along with the enormous gang and criminal problem (who account for 80% of gun related death BTW) AND taking away guns from the law abiding citizen, all makes for a terrible combination and allows guns to become the big bad killing tool the media makes them out to be.

but yeah somebody slap that screaming prick in the face, guys a fucking moron.
 
that wasnt a debate. that was two polarized people arguing two completely different points, never really addressing what the other person actually said. that was fucking garbage
 
Welcome to the American mainstream media.

Piers was an absolute douche bag in this case.

Seeing the attacks on assault rifles lately disturbs me. Not strictly because of assault rifles potentially being banned, but because of the implications.

Look at the road of gun removal in almost every other country in the world (that has outlawed guns).

It starts with the big, scary assault weapons, the majority of gun owners are indifferent, as they don't own one anyway. So sure, let them have em. I still have my pistol.

It then moves on to any semi auto gun, including handguns. Single fire, bolt/lever action rifle owners think sure, let them have em. I still have my hunting rifles.

Next thing, sure enough, they target rifles for sport, and the people of the country are blindsided by a sudden lack of guns.

There's no reason this couldn't happen here, aside from the people not allowing it to.

Also, the way Piers described the assault rifle as a gun that can spray hundreds of bullets in mere seconds pissed me right off. Completely the same rate of fire as a pistol
 
It baffles me why we don't allow people with concealed carry permits to carry in schools. Nobody who wants to commit mass murder gives a shit whether or not they are allowed to carry a weapon or where they are allowed to carry it. Nobody who has completed the gun safety courses required for concealed carry would EVER carry a loaded weapon, or a weapon off safety, or allow a child to come into possession of their weapon.
 
Don't want a shitstorm here, just point out the invalidity of my logic that has proved out in numerous countries before.
 
God it blows my mind how many people on this website are for guns. Wtf is wrong with you people? Pick a fucking hobby that doesn't have the potential to fucking kill others, thanks.

Here is my argument for concealed carry's in general, and please I would love to see how you guys plan on arguing this. So you give the majority of citizens concealed carries, and only reason why you would have one of those is to protect yourself since I doubt you are going to go hunting on the busy streets or in schools. Okay so great you have a bunch of "good" people who are mediocrely trained in using their weapon in combat situations having them at their disposal. So now in the off chance of a "bad guy" coming at them they now have the power to defend themselves. But oh wait neither person has a clue what they are doing, and now they are scared shitless because they are about to engage in a gun fight. And oh guess what since this prob happened in a public place you have increased the collateral damage because you have doubled the amount of guns in the situation.

In my humble opinion I do not believe normal average citizens should have the right to carry guns in public places. It is dangerous, and frankly I doubt there is any statistical proof saying increase concealed carries crime rates go down. I am all for more police officers, military personal, people who have actual training on using these lethal weapons in combat situations to be on the streets to protect the general public. But I think an initiative for the general public to defend itself is pretty idiotic.

Please note this is for PUBLIC places, I don't give a fuck if you have a gun at your house.
 
i dont carry one in the pipe but my brother does. Most dudes who carry in oregon have one in the pipe not the other way around.
 
Lets just look at some numbers.

Combined Population 391 million (Germany, France, Italy, UK, Spain, Canada, Australia)

Latest available annual gun homicides in the seven nations: 906

US Population 312 million and US Gun Homicides: 9,960

America's murder rate is roughly 15 times that of other wealthy countries which have tough gun control laws.

Richard Dawkins: "'Guns don't kill people, crazy people kill people.' Can you believe anyone could be so STUPID as to trot that out, yet again? Every country has its psychopaths. In the US they have guns. Thank you NRA. Thank you cowardly politicians of both parties who give in to the NRA."
 
you are making the assumption that the people who carry guns arent confident using them. you cant base a legit argument on assumptions. I see what your getting at but there is no meat to your point.

do you not remember when the cops in NYC were blindly shooting at the empire state building and hit nine bystanders? You can rely on the police to protect you. I will rely on myself
 
Huge difference between being confident in using them, and having experience in using them in combat situations. I can only imagine how different it must be in being a sure shot in the range, and being a sure shot when you are pinned down under fire or facing death.

I honestly think police need more training similar to the combat training found in the military to be honest with you, to help prevent that NYC tragedy from happening. But as far as I know there are no requirements to real training requirements to get a concealed carry permit ie: combat classes, or even basic knowledge of the rules of engament to get a concealed carry permit.

Guns are simply a tool, they can be used to cause violence, or to prevent it. But like any tool it is up to the persons knowledge who is using it in order for it to be effective. And in my opinion the current requirements for acquiring these tools are far to minimal. The same argument can be made for drivers license, I think we can all agree that it is far too easy to get them, and more strict requirements could actually lead to fewer automobile accidents.
 
youre totally right. Nobody knows how they will react in a shootout. I dont, my brothers dont, the 70 year old ex cop who taught my carry course doesnt. most cops have 0 experience in these situations either. I agree, cops need to be better trained.

The only people who have experience in shootouts are ex military. Would you support the idea that only former servicemen could concealed carry?

I only know what the carry courses teach in oregon so i cant speak about that with respect to the entire nation
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Take a look at this, and compare those countries at the top of the list to the US in terms of gun laws, and gang violence. mexico, south africa, swaziland, brazil, jamaica etc.. for the most part, these countries all have very strict gun laws compared to the US. yet their gun related death rate is higher. what do they all have in common? gangs and crime, thats where all their gun crime comes from, our gang and crime problem is just as bad here. it accounts for 80% of our gun related death.

now im not saying that their strict laws cause a higher gun related crime rate,(though some sources would support that) I really dont think it has much of an effect and certainly isnt the cause of the problem. im saying it doesnt matter, regardless of what laws are in place, gang and criminal violence will continue, they will acquire guns like kids in boulder acquire weed.

im sad to say it, but we are much much more comparable to these south american countries than we are to european countries. we have 1.4 million gang members in 30,000+ gangs and growing, rapidly. i wonder how many of these european countries even acknowledge a gang problem at all?

when you look at places like chicago and DC with the strictest gun laws in the country, they also have some of the highest numbers of gun related death.

my point is its not our "gun culture" thats the problem. as the guy in the video pointed out, some areas of the US with the most relaxed gun laws have lower gun crime rates than europe. and i wouldnt doubt that one bit. in my gun lowing town of like 150,000 people i cant remember the last time i heard of a gun related crime, in fact i think its been like 15+ years since any gun crime was reported.. when i go visit family in Nebraska, where everyones got a shotgun hanging in their pickup and a pistol holstered to their hip. the town of 80,000ish hasnt had a gun related homicide in something like 40 years.

you dont even have to look outside our country to see how gun control works and doesnt work. gun crime is concentrated in the big cities with a gang and crime problem. for the most part, regardless of any laws in place. thats where our problem is, yet we are humans, we are stupid, and act based off emotions, so we will look at this school shooting and our gun homicide problem and pass laws restricting our gun rights for no other reason than to say we did something so we feel safe. it wont do a thing to fix the real problem. but at least we can pretend like we acted on perceived problem..
 
I would hope you don't immediately discredit my points as some nutjob gun owner.

I see your point about no training being required for a CCW and honestly I can't argue to that point as I don't have a CCW even though I've heard they are incredibly easy to get here in PA where we have one of if not the largest number of CCW's. Especially in my county.

With that said I think it's awful biased of you to assume that everyone with a CCW is some untrained wild west outlaw that is ready to spray bullets at the drop of a hat. Many permit holders frequent the range more often than police or military, some even put themselves through active shooter training courses and participate in shooting tournaments and contests.

Also many hunters are ones that have CCW, granted I know this is a stretch but I'd venture to say that hunting is basically the closest you can get to live firefight training as a regular citizen. No I'm not saying shooting at a deer is anything at all like shooting at someone that is shooting back, but I'd say there are some similarities. It is shooting at a live target, sometimes moving. It is operating your firearm in a controlled safe manner during an elevated heartrate type situation. Also if you happen to be hunting bear or something more dangerous, it is using your firearm in a life threatening situation where every shot counts.

So while you say many CCW holders might not have live action fire training, I would counter with the fact that that in no way means they are inexperienced or not skilled with their tool/weapon.

More on point to the OP, I saw that interview the other night and found it appalling. I have watched piers morgan before and always found him to be not bad at best, but this interview made my blood boil. Not that either of them were making great points, but the fact that the interviewer defaulted to name calling and insults of his guests intelligence was terrible. Of course in his defence he is a media talk show host and it's basically his job to be emotional and out of control. I mean boring pointful discussions wouldn't have us discussing his interview now would it.
 
I think if someone is going to be licensed to carry around a lethal weapon on their person we need to have strickt requirements in order to get one. There is some 22 year old bite size girl on my facebook who just got her concealed carry, and I do not trust her walking around the streets with that in her purse.

And absolutely if I know a former servicemen had a concealed carry on him I actually would feel 100x safer knowing that person is around. But some other people, not so much.... Not sure how I would feel about taking an exam at CU and knowing some kid my age is holstering a gun right beside me.

You are not going to be able to eliminate all guns from the world. But if you do properly educate the individuals who do carry, and make it more difficult for others who really don't need to have them to obtain them, then I think you can actually reduce crime rates. But it has to be a two prong attack, you cannot simply be like okay lets completely remove guns, or like that one broski in the video was like give all teachers guns to protect themselves. Neither one of those approches addresses the problem in a comprehensive fashion, and are far to narrow minded in thinking of the consequences of their actions.
 
I just think if you are allowed to carry a gun in public, you should be held to same level of training as a police officer in using that firearm. Because carrying such a lethal device is pretty crazy if you think about realistically. Just like driving a car, I am shocked how easy it is to get a license in this day and age, just need a lot more strict requirements in my opinion.
 
He wasn't saying give all teachers guns. He is saying if a teacher has a concealed carry permit let them bring it to school. The laws right now make it so shooters know

There are no guns in schools.
 
to sum this argument / thread up in one gif....

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But taking a gun into a school will fuck with that learning environment, and will mess withe the dynamics of the atmosphere. If you start allowing people taking guns into schools, whats next? Airports, airplanes?

 
I don't fully disagree. Hell here in PA I don't even need a permit to carry, only concealed. Once you're 18 in this state you can purchase a handgun(by passing a background check) and carry it on your side at all times, except of course if you're heading into a school, courthouse, or casino.

Although I'm of the variety of person that views this as a freedom and positive quality of life in this country. I enjoy the fact that our government allows us to freely persue dangerous activities and prectices if we so desire.

I'd be in for more strict background checks probably. Not really for stricter training though, perhaps a more strict safety class and testing for a CCW. I mean I went through a several night safety course to acquire my hunting license when I was 12, and I saw that as beneficial.

I see requiring training as a bit far though. Not that they are very comparable but I enjoy kayaking, rock climbing, and skiing because of this freedom as well. No one tests me before I set up on a rock, or put my boat in the river, or enter a park on a ski slope. Yeah I'm not throwing lead around but some of those activities are dangerous to myself and others. I see that lack of testing and requirement as a freedom not a recipe for disaster. I'm also OK accepting the danger on our roads due to driver's testing being what it is today.

More to the OP again, I'm all for CCW permit holders to carry in schools if they so please. No I don't think teachers should be required to carry. I am all for armed guards and metal detectors in school though.
 
he was mocking the logic of many no gun control advocates by running it the other direction, pointing out how silly it is.
 
I'd love to see some more numbers. Like how many guns are actually owned by citizens in those 7 countries.

Give in to the NRA??? Well said dude. You realize the NRA is a membership organization of over 4 million people?? Go ahead and blame the big bad lobbying power of the horrible NRA, but for a second please let the notion enter your brain that perhaps politicians are actually just listening to the citizens of the US.

It's easy to point the finger at a big corporation bad guy, but realize for a second that more than 1 person per 100 in the US are members of the NRA, and more than that are gun owners that most likely side with and also vote with the NRA's principles.
 
Poorly argued on both sides. No good answer to this but both sides are 100% positive they're right. Meh it's crap.
 
At the grocery store right down the street from my house in Salt Lake a man purchased a kitchen knife, went outside, and proceeded to attack and stab people. This man was trying to kill these people. A concealed carry holder drew on him and was able to subdue him until the police came. I know this is not gun on gun but I feel this is a good example of the good that can come from owning guns. Who knows how long it could have taken for police to be on scene. Many more people could have been attacked if this random citizen didn't step in.

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx

 
Well they both had problems in there arguments but morgan is a retard. Pratt wants people in schools to have guns which might not be the best solution buts its better than morgans. Taking away guns will not work. There are already 300 million guns in the country the cats out of the bag and its not going back in. Pratts solution atleast doenst make the situation worse.
 
Well they both had problems in there arguments but morgan is a retard. Pratt wants people in schools to have guns which might not be the best solution buts its better than morgans. Taking away guns will not work. There are already 300 million guns in the country the cats out of the bag and its not going back in. Pratts solution atleast doenst make the situation worse.
 
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