OMFG the iran war has already started
- Thread starter FuckThePolice
- Start date
ATLANTASKI
Active member
if you want to look at statistics, Israel has killed far more palestinian civilians in their incursions into the west bank and gaza strap than israeli civilians lost to suicide bomber. This is not slanted to be any anti semitic remark, as i work at a jewish day camp and have several jewish friends. Its pure fact.
America allowing to let israel do whatever it wants in regards to bullying Palestine only makes us look like hypocrites. Israel has as much of a right to their sovreignty as a Palestinian state. The palestinian state must be run by politicans not thugs from a para military organization like Hamas.
America holds enough weight in this situation to broker out a deal by proposing UN sanctions against Israel until they pull out of the Bekkah valley, and other regions of southern syria that they unlawfully control. After this, hezbollah would have to agree to disarm and join either the lebanese or syrian political system.(Hezbollah has already agreed to disarm if Israel complies to this singular demand. After Hezbollah disarms, sanctions against israel would continue until they brokered a deal recognizing palestine as a seperate entity, with a legitimate government made up of politicans and not Hamas militants. Israel then would be subject to have additional sanctions put on them with any further illegal incursion into palestine. Palestinians would maintain the right to enter and leave jerusalem as they please.
Under a plan similar to this, future conflict in the mid east could be assuaged
America allowing to let israel do whatever it wants in regards to bullying Palestine only makes us look like hypocrites. Israel has as much of a right to their sovreignty as a Palestinian state. The palestinian state must be run by politicans not thugs from a para military organization like Hamas.
America holds enough weight in this situation to broker out a deal by proposing UN sanctions against Israel until they pull out of the Bekkah valley, and other regions of southern syria that they unlawfully control. After this, hezbollah would have to agree to disarm and join either the lebanese or syrian political system.(Hezbollah has already agreed to disarm if Israel complies to this singular demand. After Hezbollah disarms, sanctions against israel would continue until they brokered a deal recognizing palestine as a seperate entity, with a legitimate government made up of politicans and not Hamas militants. Israel then would be subject to have additional sanctions put on them with any further illegal incursion into palestine. Palestinians would maintain the right to enter and leave jerusalem as they please.
Under a plan similar to this, future conflict in the mid east could be assuaged
whattheshit
Active member
thats surprising, someone that watches fox news but thinks israel is unjustified. truly is a first.
p.s. don't watch the liberal/conservative slanted news sources cnn/fox. get your shit from the associated press.
p.s. don't watch the liberal/conservative slanted news sources cnn/fox. get your shit from the associated press.
FuckThePolice
Active member
if you would have read what i said i said i watch it for amusement. i dont get any of my info rom fox
CooksCorner
Active member
And then i would get all introspective and realize that i am a religious fundimentalist (leaving out the word TERRORIST for the time being). Christ these people take the afterlife so seriously that the here and now is nearly inconsequential. The middle east is everything bad about religion expressed in theatrics, fire and brimstone.
eastcoastcavvy
Member
Why is it all or nothing?
1947 UN Partition Plan
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
On 29 November 1947 the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine or United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, a plan to resolve the Arab-Jewish conflict in the British Mandate of Palestine, was approved by the United Nations General Assembly, at the UN World Headquarters in New York. The plan partitioned the territory of Western Palestine into Jewish and Arab states, with the Greater Jerusalem area, encompassing Bethlehem, coming under international control. The failure of the British government and the United Nations to impliment this plan and its rejection by Palestinian Arabs resulted in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.
Creation of the plan
The United Nations, the successor to the League of Nations, attempted to solve the dispute between the Jews and Arabs in Palestine. On May 15, 1947 the UN appointed a committee, the UNSCOP, composed of representatives from eleven states. To make the committee more neutral, none of the Great Powers were represented. After spending three months conducting hearings and general survey of the situation in Palestine, UNSCOP officially released its report on August 31. A majority of nations (Canada, Czechoslovakia, Guatemala, Netherlands, Peru, Sweden, Uruguay) recommended the creation of independent Arab and Jewish states, with Jerusalem to be placed under international administration. A minority (India, Iran, Yugoslavia) supported the creation of a single federal state containing both Jewish and Arab constituent states. Australia abstained.
On November 29, the UN General Assembly voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions, in favor of the Partition Plan, while making some adjustments to the boundaries between the two states proposed by it. The division was to take effect on the date of British withdrawal. Both the United States and Soviet Union agreed on the resolution. In addition, pressure was exerted on some small countries by Zionist sympathizers in the United States.[1]
The 33 countries that voted in favor of the partition, as set by UN resolution 181: Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Belarus, Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Haiti, Iceland, Liberia, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Sweden, South Africa, Ukraine, United States, USSR, Uruguay, Venezuela.
The 13 countries that voted against UN Resolution 181: Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen.
The ten countries that abstained: Argentina, Chile, China, Colombia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Honduras, Mexico, United Kingdom, Yugoslavia.
One state was absent: Thailand.
Following the adoption of the plan, Arab countries proposed to query the International Court of Justice on the competence of the General Assembly to partition a country against the wishes of the majority of its inhabitants. This was narrowly defeated. [2]
Meeting in Cairo in November and December of 1947, the Arab League then adopted a series of resolutions aimed at a military solution to the conflict.
[edit]
The division
Ironically, the division of Palestine was determined by the distribution of malaria[citation needed].
The land allocated to the Arab state consisted of all of the highlands, except for Jerusalem, plus one third of the coastline. The highlands contained no large bodies of standing water and were relatively secure from malaria, allowing a substantial permanent population to exist.
The Jewish state was to receive 55% of Mandatory Palestine. In the north, this area included three fertile lowland plains -- the Sharon on the coast, the Jezreel Valley and the upper Jordan Valley. All three were extremely fertile in 1947, but were largely uninhabitable before 1900 due to silting caused by deforestation. The resulting marshes allowed mosquitos to breed, but also made potential farmland available to Jewish settlers. (Mark Twain's travel journal, Innocents Abroad contains a vivid discription of malaria in Palestine in the 1870's.)
The bulk of the proposed Jewish State's territory, however, consisted of the Negev Desert. The desert was not suitable for agriculture, nor for urban development at that time. The Jewish state was also given sole access to the Red Sea and the Sea of Galilee (the largest source of fresh water in Palestine). The land allocated to the Jewish state was largely made up of areas in which there was a significant Jewish population (Map of population distribution). Palestine's land surface was approximately 26.3 million dunums (26,300 km²), of which about one third was cultivable. The land in Jewish possession had risen from 456,003 dunums (456 km²) in 1920 to 1,393,531 dunums (1,393 km²) in 1945 (Khalaf, 1991, pp. 26-27) and 1,850,000 dunums (1,850 km²) by 1947 (Avneri p. 224).
Regarding the Arab ownership, the MidEast Web states "At the time of partition, slightly less than half the land in all of Palestine was owned by Arabs, slightly less than half was "crown lands" belonging to the state, and about 8% was owned by Jews or the Jewish Agency." [1] The precise amount of land owned by local Arabs and the state has been subject to considerable dispute as the Ottoman Empire did not maintain an accurate land registration system and many land claims consisted of little more than contracts between private parties that may or may not have been based on actually posession.
Much of the Jewish population, especially in rural areas, lived on land leased from Arab owners.
The UN General Assembly made a non-binding recommendation for a three-way partition of Palestine into a Jewish State, an Arab State and a small internationally administered zone including the religiously significant towns Jerusalem and Bethlehem. The two states envisioned in the plan were each composed of three major sections, linked by extraterritorial crossroads. The Jewish state would receive the Coastal Plain, stretching from Haifa to Rehovot, the Eastern Galilee (surrounding the Sea of Galilee and including the Galilee panhandle) and the Negev, including the southern outpost of Umm Rashrash (now Eilat). The Arab state would receive the Western Galilee, with the town of Acre, the Samarian highlands and the Judean highlands, and the southern coast stretching from north of Isdud (now Ashdod) and encompassing what is now the Gaza Strip, with a section of desert along the Egyptian border. The UNSCOP report placed the mostly-Arab town of Jaffa, just south of Tel Aviv, in the Jewish state, but it was moved to form an enclave part of the Arab State before the proposal went before the UN.
The plan was a compromise position based on two other plans.
The plan tried its best to accommodate as many Jews as possible into the Jewish state. In many specific cases, this meant including areas of Arab majority (but with a significant Jewish minority) in the Jewish state. Thus the Jewish State would have an overall large Arab minority. Areas that were sparsely populated (like the Negev), were also included in the Jewish state to create room for immigration in order to relieve the "Jewish Problem".
Reactions to the plan
The majority of the Jews and Jewish groups accepted the proposal, in particular the Jewish Agency, which was the Jewish state-in-formation. A minority of extreme nationalist Jewish groups like Menachem Begin's Irgun Tsvai Leumi and Yitzhak Shamir's Lehi, (known as the Stern Gang) which had been fighting the British, rejected it. Numerous records indicate the joy of Palestine's Jewish inhabitants as they attended to the U.N. session voting for the division proposal. Up to this day, Israeli history books mention November 29th (the date of this session) as the most important date in the Israel's acquisition of independence. However, Jews did criticise the lack of territorial continuity for the Jewish state.
The Arab leadership (in and out of Palestine) opposed the plan, arguing that it violated the rights of the majority of the people in Palestine, which at the time was 67% non-Jewish (1,237,000) and 33% Jewish (608,000). Arab leaders also argued a large number of Arabs would be trapped in the Jewish State as a minority. While some Arab leaders opposed the right of the Jews for self-determination in the region, others criticised the amount and quality of land given to Israel. (The proposal, however, was not solely for the Jews in Palestine but for a secure homeland for Jews outside of Palestine.)
Great Britain refused to implement the plan arguing it was not acceptable to both sides. It also refused to share with the UN Palestine Commission the administration of Palestine during the transitional period, and decided to terminate the British mandate of Palestine on May 15th, 1948.[3]
Fighting began almost as soon as the plan was approved, beginning with the Jerusalem Riots of 1947. The fighting would have an effect on the Arab population of Palestine, as well the Jewish populations of neighboring Arab countries.
If anyone cared to read it, I always thought that this proposal was interesting.
1947 UN Partition Plan
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
On 29 November 1947 the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine or United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, a plan to resolve the Arab-Jewish conflict in the British Mandate of Palestine, was approved by the United Nations General Assembly, at the UN World Headquarters in New York. The plan partitioned the territory of Western Palestine into Jewish and Arab states, with the Greater Jerusalem area, encompassing Bethlehem, coming under international control. The failure of the British government and the United Nations to impliment this plan and its rejection by Palestinian Arabs resulted in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.
Creation of the plan
The United Nations, the successor to the League of Nations, attempted to solve the dispute between the Jews and Arabs in Palestine. On May 15, 1947 the UN appointed a committee, the UNSCOP, composed of representatives from eleven states. To make the committee more neutral, none of the Great Powers were represented. After spending three months conducting hearings and general survey of the situation in Palestine, UNSCOP officially released its report on August 31. A majority of nations (Canada, Czechoslovakia, Guatemala, Netherlands, Peru, Sweden, Uruguay) recommended the creation of independent Arab and Jewish states, with Jerusalem to be placed under international administration. A minority (India, Iran, Yugoslavia) supported the creation of a single federal state containing both Jewish and Arab constituent states. Australia abstained.
On November 29, the UN General Assembly voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions, in favor of the Partition Plan, while making some adjustments to the boundaries between the two states proposed by it. The division was to take effect on the date of British withdrawal. Both the United States and Soviet Union agreed on the resolution. In addition, pressure was exerted on some small countries by Zionist sympathizers in the United States.[1]
The 33 countries that voted in favor of the partition, as set by UN resolution 181: Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Belarus, Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Haiti, Iceland, Liberia, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Sweden, South Africa, Ukraine, United States, USSR, Uruguay, Venezuela.
The 13 countries that voted against UN Resolution 181: Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen.
The ten countries that abstained: Argentina, Chile, China, Colombia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Honduras, Mexico, United Kingdom, Yugoslavia.
One state was absent: Thailand.
Following the adoption of the plan, Arab countries proposed to query the International Court of Justice on the competence of the General Assembly to partition a country against the wishes of the majority of its inhabitants. This was narrowly defeated. [2]
Meeting in Cairo in November and December of 1947, the Arab League then adopted a series of resolutions aimed at a military solution to the conflict.
[edit]
The division
Ironically, the division of Palestine was determined by the distribution of malaria[citation needed].
The land allocated to the Arab state consisted of all of the highlands, except for Jerusalem, plus one third of the coastline. The highlands contained no large bodies of standing water and were relatively secure from malaria, allowing a substantial permanent population to exist.
The Jewish state was to receive 55% of Mandatory Palestine. In the north, this area included three fertile lowland plains -- the Sharon on the coast, the Jezreel Valley and the upper Jordan Valley. All three were extremely fertile in 1947, but were largely uninhabitable before 1900 due to silting caused by deforestation. The resulting marshes allowed mosquitos to breed, but also made potential farmland available to Jewish settlers. (Mark Twain's travel journal, Innocents Abroad contains a vivid discription of malaria in Palestine in the 1870's.)
The bulk of the proposed Jewish State's territory, however, consisted of the Negev Desert. The desert was not suitable for agriculture, nor for urban development at that time. The Jewish state was also given sole access to the Red Sea and the Sea of Galilee (the largest source of fresh water in Palestine). The land allocated to the Jewish state was largely made up of areas in which there was a significant Jewish population (Map of population distribution). Palestine's land surface was approximately 26.3 million dunums (26,300 km²), of which about one third was cultivable. The land in Jewish possession had risen from 456,003 dunums (456 km²) in 1920 to 1,393,531 dunums (1,393 km²) in 1945 (Khalaf, 1991, pp. 26-27) and 1,850,000 dunums (1,850 km²) by 1947 (Avneri p. 224).
Regarding the Arab ownership, the MidEast Web states "At the time of partition, slightly less than half the land in all of Palestine was owned by Arabs, slightly less than half was "crown lands" belonging to the state, and about 8% was owned by Jews or the Jewish Agency." [1] The precise amount of land owned by local Arabs and the state has been subject to considerable dispute as the Ottoman Empire did not maintain an accurate land registration system and many land claims consisted of little more than contracts between private parties that may or may not have been based on actually posession.
Much of the Jewish population, especially in rural areas, lived on land leased from Arab owners.
The UN General Assembly made a non-binding recommendation for a three-way partition of Palestine into a Jewish State, an Arab State and a small internationally administered zone including the religiously significant towns Jerusalem and Bethlehem. The two states envisioned in the plan were each composed of three major sections, linked by extraterritorial crossroads. The Jewish state would receive the Coastal Plain, stretching from Haifa to Rehovot, the Eastern Galilee (surrounding the Sea of Galilee and including the Galilee panhandle) and the Negev, including the southern outpost of Umm Rashrash (now Eilat). The Arab state would receive the Western Galilee, with the town of Acre, the Samarian highlands and the Judean highlands, and the southern coast stretching from north of Isdud (now Ashdod) and encompassing what is now the Gaza Strip, with a section of desert along the Egyptian border. The UNSCOP report placed the mostly-Arab town of Jaffa, just south of Tel Aviv, in the Jewish state, but it was moved to form an enclave part of the Arab State before the proposal went before the UN.
The plan was a compromise position based on two other plans.
The plan tried its best to accommodate as many Jews as possible into the Jewish state. In many specific cases, this meant including areas of Arab majority (but with a significant Jewish minority) in the Jewish state. Thus the Jewish State would have an overall large Arab minority. Areas that were sparsely populated (like the Negev), were also included in the Jewish state to create room for immigration in order to relieve the "Jewish Problem".
Reactions to the plan
The majority of the Jews and Jewish groups accepted the proposal, in particular the Jewish Agency, which was the Jewish state-in-formation. A minority of extreme nationalist Jewish groups like Menachem Begin's Irgun Tsvai Leumi and Yitzhak Shamir's Lehi, (known as the Stern Gang) which had been fighting the British, rejected it. Numerous records indicate the joy of Palestine's Jewish inhabitants as they attended to the U.N. session voting for the division proposal. Up to this day, Israeli history books mention November 29th (the date of this session) as the most important date in the Israel's acquisition of independence. However, Jews did criticise the lack of territorial continuity for the Jewish state.
The Arab leadership (in and out of Palestine) opposed the plan, arguing that it violated the rights of the majority of the people in Palestine, which at the time was 67% non-Jewish (1,237,000) and 33% Jewish (608,000). Arab leaders also argued a large number of Arabs would be trapped in the Jewish State as a minority. While some Arab leaders opposed the right of the Jews for self-determination in the region, others criticised the amount and quality of land given to Israel. (The proposal, however, was not solely for the Jews in Palestine but for a secure homeland for Jews outside of Palestine.)
Great Britain refused to implement the plan arguing it was not acceptable to both sides. It also refused to share with the UN Palestine Commission the administration of Palestine during the transitional period, and decided to terminate the British mandate of Palestine on May 15th, 1948.[3]
Fighting began almost as soon as the plan was approved, beginning with the Jerusalem Riots of 1947. The fighting would have an effect on the Arab population of Palestine, as well the Jewish populations of neighboring Arab countries.
If anyone cared to read it, I always thought that this proposal was interesting.
hendrik.
Active member
why the hell be pissed at someone thousands of miles away when you can put your anger on teh actual people in your land
Ok, new example - native americans. Land "owned" by american gov't...not really...just like britain "owning" palestine. we kicked the indians out, and they got pissed and fought back till we gave me casinos...
maybe we should give hte palestinians casinos?
[disclaimer: gross generlization of history above this mark ___ ]
Ok, new example - native americans. Land "owned" by american gov't...not really...just like britain "owning" palestine. we kicked the indians out, and they got pissed and fought back till we gave me casinos...
maybe we should give hte palestinians casinos?
[disclaimer: gross generlization of history above this mark ___ ]
My friend and I were talking last night and we determined that Israel is to the world as Washington DC is to the US: Its a very important and significant place, but would you really want to live there?
(Note, DC has the far greatest number of crimes per capita than any other American city)
(Note, DC has the far greatest number of crimes per capita than any other American city)
FuckThePolice
Active member
more then nyc,La,detroit or miami? that seems hard to belive but im not sure at all
DC IS AGAIN 'MURDER
CAPITAL', NEW STUDY SHOWS
- District had Highest Big-City
Murder Rate in 2002
- DC Murder Rate Soared as Other Cities Saw Decline
http://www.safestreetsdc.com/subpages/murdercap.html
Also, check this out, it compares DC's crime to national averages...
http://washingtondc.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm
robbieA
Active member
go here for crime rates: http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/?city1=8840&city2=1920
i didnt look that long but dallas was the only one with both higher than i could find
i didnt look that long but dallas was the only one with both higher than i could find
Cheeseninja
Member
I only read about half the first post, but how the fuck has Israel been illegally occupying Palestine? Palestine started a war and got the shit ruined, and Israel took that land. That shit has been done since humans embraced the concept of owning land, and now you're sympathizing with a bunch of towel-heads because "Israel is the aggressor?" Fuck that.
will987654321
Active member
You obviously know nothing about the conflict.
will987654321
Active member
Actually nevermind, I misread.
Cheeseninja
Member
Yeah, I could have made it clearer what I was talking about. (This post is not sarcastic)