Oil at $121
- Thread starter sowstochd
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Dhane
Active member
very very good points, all very valid
but to add to that, the ocean is an unlimited source of energy. the tide coming in and out is enough energy to power alot. it is clean, safe, effective and predictable. but im sure that people will complain about the lack of beach front or something. the thing is, we all want a solution but are not willing to embrace or support it.
but to add to that, the ocean is an unlimited source of energy. the tide coming in and out is enough energy to power alot. it is clean, safe, effective and predictable. but im sure that people will complain about the lack of beach front or something. the thing is, we all want a solution but are not willing to embrace or support it.
user098123
Active member
Actually it's not that clean, salt water is very corrosive which presents some major problems.
user098123
Active member
Doh probably right, still harder to use than most people think.
eastcoastsoloMAN
Active member
I brought this up earlier in the collision thread but ill do it again, a simple idea and it looks like this
India’s largest automaker is set to start producing the world’s first commercial air-powered vehicle. The Air Car, developed by ex-Formula One engineer Guy Nègre for Luxembourg-based MDI, uses compressed air, as opposed to the gas-and-oxygen explosions of internal-combustion models, to push its engine’s pistons. Some 6000 zero-emissions Air Cars are scheduled to hit Indian streets in August of 2008.
Barring any last-minute design changes on the way to production, the Air Car should be surprisingly practical. The $12,700 CityCAT, one of a handful of planned Air Car models, can hit 68 mph and has a range of 125 miles. It will take only a few minutes for the CityCAT to refuel at gas stations equipped with custom air compressor units; MDI says it should cost around $2 to fill the car’s carbon-fiber tanks with 340 liters of air at 4350 psi. Drivers also will be able to plug into the electrical grid and use the car’s built-in compressor to refill the tanks in about 4 hours.
Of course, the Air Car will likely never hit American shores, especially considering its all-glue construction. But that doesn’t mean the major automakers can write it off as a bizarre Indian experiment — MDI has signed deals to bring its design to 12 more countries, including Germany, Israel and South Africa.
India’s largest automaker is set to start producing the world’s first commercial air-powered vehicle. The Air Car, developed by ex-Formula One engineer Guy Nègre for Luxembourg-based MDI, uses compressed air, as opposed to the gas-and-oxygen explosions of internal-combustion models, to push its engine’s pistons. Some 6000 zero-emissions Air Cars are scheduled to hit Indian streets in August of 2008.
Barring any last-minute design changes on the way to production, the Air Car should be surprisingly practical. The $12,700 CityCAT, one of a handful of planned Air Car models, can hit 68 mph and has a range of 125 miles. It will take only a few minutes for the CityCAT to refuel at gas stations equipped with custom air compressor units; MDI says it should cost around $2 to fill the car’s carbon-fiber tanks with 340 liters of air at 4350 psi. Drivers also will be able to plug into the electrical grid and use the car’s built-in compressor to refill the tanks in about 4 hours.
Of course, the Air Car will likely never hit American shores, especially considering its all-glue construction. But that doesn’t mean the major automakers can write it off as a bizarre Indian experiment — MDI has signed deals to bring its design to 12 more countries, including Germany, Israel and South Africa.
sim
Active member
So first of all its always a good idea to read the entire thread.
Secondly, it doesnt really sound like you actually know what you are talking about.
Models by the National Center for Atmospheric Research and the Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory have shown that if wind power were to be done on a massive scale, or basically generate the equivalent electricity of current demand, as large of a climate change would be seen as if fossil fuels would continue to be used. That amount of wind turbines would have serious effects on the kinetics of wind and disrupt its normal flow. Furthermore, de-centralizing power is not a new thought. Sure everyone could hypothetically have their own wind turbine. Now who does the maintenance on them? What about the variability of the wind itself? Its not as simple as you make it sound.
I'd also like to find out where you got your numbers where it is simply going to save you money. I searched quickly and found that in 2001, the average U.S home used 888 kWh/mo at an approximate average electricity price of about 10 cents/kWh. Thats around $21000 dollars for electricity in 20 years. Now this might make it look like your wind turbine is a good deal after all, but you never mentioned what your "$20000" dollar turbine was rated at. 1 kW? 2 kW? I found one online for about $5500 at 2 kW at a wind speed of 9m/s. It makes 0 kW if wind speed isnt about 3m/s. An air conditioner takes 3500 W.... See where I am getting at? Its just not as simple as you make it out to be.
Wind power can be generated at a competitive price only when the turbines are big and capture much of the wind power. Economies of scale.
I'd also be interested to know how your capital costs of having a bullet train go from every town U.S.A at a decent frequency and reliability is going to be even marginally close to that of roads....
Trust me, I'm all for changes in the way we do things. You go on to say that if we find an alternative to gas it will save both the planet and your wallet. Well we have found alternatives to gas. The reason you don't see them on mass scales, is because they arent cheaper than gas. Its pretty simple economics. If gas prices continue to go up, you will slowly see greater emphasize on other technologies, mostly because the numbers will start working.
Secondly, it doesnt really sound like you actually know what you are talking about.
Models by the National Center for Atmospheric Research and the Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory have shown that if wind power were to be done on a massive scale, or basically generate the equivalent electricity of current demand, as large of a climate change would be seen as if fossil fuels would continue to be used. That amount of wind turbines would have serious effects on the kinetics of wind and disrupt its normal flow. Furthermore, de-centralizing power is not a new thought. Sure everyone could hypothetically have their own wind turbine. Now who does the maintenance on them? What about the variability of the wind itself? Its not as simple as you make it sound.
I'd also like to find out where you got your numbers where it is simply going to save you money. I searched quickly and found that in 2001, the average U.S home used 888 kWh/mo at an approximate average electricity price of about 10 cents/kWh. Thats around $21000 dollars for electricity in 20 years. Now this might make it look like your wind turbine is a good deal after all, but you never mentioned what your "$20000" dollar turbine was rated at. 1 kW? 2 kW? I found one online for about $5500 at 2 kW at a wind speed of 9m/s. It makes 0 kW if wind speed isnt about 3m/s. An air conditioner takes 3500 W.... See where I am getting at? Its just not as simple as you make it out to be.
Wind power can be generated at a competitive price only when the turbines are big and capture much of the wind power. Economies of scale.
I'd also be interested to know how your capital costs of having a bullet train go from every town U.S.A at a decent frequency and reliability is going to be even marginally close to that of roads....
Trust me, I'm all for changes in the way we do things. You go on to say that if we find an alternative to gas it will save both the planet and your wallet. Well we have found alternatives to gas. The reason you don't see them on mass scales, is because they arent cheaper than gas. Its pretty simple economics. If gas prices continue to go up, you will slowly see greater emphasize on other technologies, mostly because the numbers will start working.
skiminnesota
Active member
o, thanks for clearing that up with a little 6 word sentence... i can definitely take your word as truth, thanks allot, i dont know what i would have done if you didnt post that.
johanblaze
Active member
Cheapest I could find gas here in Mammoth Lakes is $4.29 a gallon. And I just bought a snowmobile. Fack.
So glad I don't have a diesel anymore.
So glad I don't have a diesel anymore.
eastcoastsoloMAN
Active member
ok i have it now. SOLAR POWERED SHINGLES, it would be simple, just put them on where your asfalt shingles are and that powers you house, its that simple right? it might not be enough but it could still work to power part of your house
skiminnesota
Active member
that sounds great, but when you weigh the cost, it doesnt look so good..
user098123
Active member
Well I could explain it more in depth if you knew how alkali metals, such as sodium, work in packed lattice structures of calcined silica gels...which is what my lab works with. Do you know enough chemistry to follow me?
skiminnesota
Active member
go for it.
Alkyy
Active member
Ummmmm what? Can you post a link to that model because im really interested in hearing how that will change winds. Sure maybe just around the turbine it MIGHT have a small disturbance, nothing big enough to effect weather patterns or anything at all, thats like saying a 3 story building in the middle of a field will change winds, of corse it will but does it really do anything?
And of coruse it isnt it isnt going to be 100% simple and easy otherwise you would see 1,000,000 turbines everywhere, there is a guy that lives down the road from me that hasnt ever been on the grid and puts in about 1 hour a day and it works out fine for him. As americans we are lazy almost all of us are, we want the best thing for no work and no care for anything else.
And i wasnt saying from every little town to every little town, but think if we had trains connecting all the major cities and for inner city transport just use trains or trollys or something like that. If we could set up trains that go right along all of the interstates it would deffanatly cut down on use on the road, cut down on the wear on the road, cut down on the amout of car accedents and overall will save everyone alot of money, Japan seemed to figure it out good (i know its not a great example because japan is tiny compaired to the us and canada but they do a good job in tokeyo
And of coruse it isnt it isnt going to be 100% simple and easy otherwise you would see 1,000,000 turbines everywhere, there is a guy that lives down the road from me that hasnt ever been on the grid and puts in about 1 hour a day and it works out fine for him. As americans we are lazy almost all of us are, we want the best thing for no work and no care for anything else.
And i wasnt saying from every little town to every little town, but think if we had trains connecting all the major cities and for inner city transport just use trains or trollys or something like that. If we could set up trains that go right along all of the interstates it would deffanatly cut down on use on the road, cut down on the wear on the road, cut down on the amout of car accedents and overall will save everyone alot of money, Japan seemed to figure it out good (i know its not a great example because japan is tiny compaired to the us and canada but they do a good job in tokeyo
user098123
Active member
I'm not going to go through the trouble of explaining it in depth, unless you are pretty advanced in chemistry you won't understand it. In essence though, it is trapping sodium metal in the nanoscale pores of silica gel. It leads to a silicon oxide layer on the outside, protecting the sodium on the inside from the atmosphere while still keeping its reactive potential. I assume you know why sodium can't be exposed to air etc. Regardless, using this new product we were able to aid in the breakdown of toxic wastes from diesel fuels among other things. It's not something you can incorporate into the fuel in any way or make it more efficient or anything like that. That's about as simple as I can explain it.
sim
Active member
I can't post a link as its from lecture notes from one of the world's foremost leaders in energy and its future. If I knew how to post pictures I might be able to show the simulation, but... I don't.
Umm this is kinda what I mean, you seem to just say things without really knowing. You just came out and said, "oh, it wouldn't effect wind that much." How is it that you know that? Off the top of your head, do you happen to know about how big some of the blades are on the newest, most efficient turbines?
I'd be highly interested to know about what this seemingly amazing technology your neighbour has.
I do agree with you about the trains though. It would be nice to see a much better network of trains between cities. The problem being is that many cities don't yet have sufficient enough public transport within the city. So once you take a train from one city to the other, what do you do once you get there? Furthermore, people's mentality still needs to be changed. I hope it happens sooner, rather than later.
Umm this is kinda what I mean, you seem to just say things without really knowing. You just came out and said, "oh, it wouldn't effect wind that much." How is it that you know that? Off the top of your head, do you happen to know about how big some of the blades are on the newest, most efficient turbines?
I'd be highly interested to know about what this seemingly amazing technology your neighbour has.
I do agree with you about the trains though. It would be nice to see a much better network of trains between cities. The problem being is that many cities don't yet have sufficient enough public transport within the city. So once you take a train from one city to the other, what do you do once you get there? Furthermore, people's mentality still needs to be changed. I hope it happens sooner, rather than later.
eastcoastsoloMAN
Active member
heres a size comparison
then i have an idea, not to effect the wind in the world just use the same tubines under water and catch the energy of the currents
Inbred_Redneck
Active member
Most people don't use solar to heat and power their homes is because they put more power back into the grid. This is a good thing, yet some power companies in several states will not pay you for the electricity your putting back into the grid, hence no reason to buy panels. If they paid you for the electricity you could have your panels paid off in about 1-5 years.
I just got back from a tour of an oil processing facility and I thought I'd share this tidbit of info.
In the year 2001, the local Oil company was at its peak production. Seven years later, production is now at 1/3 of what it was in 2001, yet they are making more money now.
Price of oil p/b in 2001: $34
Price of oil p/b in 2008: $125
Less oil, more profits...ridiculous
In the year 2001, the local Oil company was at its peak production. Seven years later, production is now at 1/3 of what it was in 2001, yet they are making more money now.
Price of oil p/b in 2001: $34
Price of oil p/b in 2008: $125
Less oil, more profits...ridiculous
It's not compleatly because of the cost per barrel of oil I mean it doesn't help but the enviornmentalists are forcing refineries to curb their output if we used the refineries to their full capasity and maybe built some more refineries gas would be cheaper. We have oil all over but we could drill more in california, florida, alaska and we could be less reliant on oil from the middle east. We should stop investing in corn ethanol and move that money to develop coal oil or wind or solar I mean corn ethanol has cause wheat price to nearly double in recent time. Oil companies aren't really fucking us over they only get between 8.5 to 9% back on all the money they put into it.
![[Adam]](/data/avatars/m/109/109794.jpg?1745610644){kind=avatar}
nitsua
Active member
If car companies were to lower the cost of hybrid fueled vehicles, or electric vehicles people would be able to afford that, but right now with the gas prices as is no one can even afford to do anything. Its hard for me to do anything other than work now because of gas prices, and I not able to afford a more gas efficent car. It complete bullshit, gas where I am right now is 3.83 a gallon. It cost me 45 bucks to fill up a 10 gallon tank, when it used to cost me about 22 at the end of last summer. Just rediculous.
user098123
Active member
Rejoice, researchers at MIT developed a fuel cell that is 50% more efficient and cost less money. Could mean good things for the future.
http://www.greentechgazette.com/index.php/fuel-cells/mit-fuel-cell-50-percent-more-efficient/
http://www.greentechgazette.com/index.php/fuel-cells/mit-fuel-cell-50-percent-more-efficient/
pmills
Active member
i'm starting to doubt that any of the actual solutions will be any one 'solution' of today -- glad to see a move away from H, just using the same principle.
I know H was said to not be very efficient at all, so i wonder how much better "50%" really is, but it sounds like a start.
I know H was said to not be very efficient at all, so i wonder how much better "50%" really is, but it sounds like a start.
dman1260
Member
I'm no expert but i attended a presentation by PG&E (california power) and they talked about harvesting the power of the ocean by using ocean gradients and turbines similar to those used in wind energy. This could be very useful in the future and could greatly help solve energy problems. I really hope we can get past the use of oil because I'm sure as you all know, oil is pretty much destroying our economy (stock market down 200 points today because of oils advancements).
hahahaha fo sho
The problem with the underwater turbines is clearly aquatic life. Birds and bats seem to be able to see and stear clear of wind turbines but with ocean tides being as fast as they are in some places in the world, aquatic animals can get sucked into these things a lot easier.
Plus the wind powered ones are super fucking pricey still and imagine trying to waterproof one for underwater use (additional $$$). Not to mention the problems with bigger anaimals like whale run into one of em...
The problem with the underwater turbines is clearly aquatic life. Birds and bats seem to be able to see and stear clear of wind turbines but with ocean tides being as fast as they are in some places in the world, aquatic animals can get sucked into these things a lot easier.
Plus the wind powered ones are super fucking pricey still and imagine trying to waterproof one for underwater use (additional $$$). Not to mention the problems with bigger anaimals like whale run into one of em...
I think they are makin shitter gas too... I'm getting worse power, and worse mileage out of my car every other time i fill up... and its not because i'm driving harder or anything...
basically I think we are getting mega jipped... paying 5 bucks for gas, and getting shittier gas every day...
SUCKAGE...
basically I think we are getting mega jipped... paying 5 bucks for gas, and getting shittier gas every day...
SUCKAGE...
skifree919
Active member
yea that probalby has to do with teh fact that your tires are flat or you have to change your oil. I'm pretty sure the quality of gas is the same
