Oh yea and.... fuck windells

a big part of this is that in a lot of cool ski jobs employees are thought to be easily replaceable..

but just because 100 people will step up doesnt mean that they will be as good as the old employees..

thats the attitude ive felt before though.. "we hook you up with the drug you need (skiing) and you become our bitch, where we can do with you whatever we like"

i am not saying that its like that everywhere, but i believe its like that in most ski resort jobs where the shitty attitude toward employees is combined with low pay and inconsistency
 
Just to clarify, the best and most consistent/reliable ski industry jobs I have had were in Accounting, and on Park Crew...Park Crew being the dankest most steezmatic job ive ever had
 
well you guys have to remember they got at least 2 feet of snow while they were there and its a little hard to make a nice park when its snowing
 
It was Eric's responsibility to impress upon Tim the simple fact that he was incapable of providing his services for the figure Tim proposed. If Tim felt that he could get someone to do it for that price, he has every right to pursue other avenues. The natural consequence if Eric would have backed out would have been shitty or non-existent camper dvds --> unhappy campers/parents --> less campers next year and poor reviews. The bottom line is Eric consciously and knowingly did things his way against his bosses wishes. Ski camp or an accounting firm, not doing what the boss says amounts to the same thing. No job for you. It's unfortunate because eric and his crew seem like good dudes who love the sport and are stoked on kids' riding. I hope you guys find another opp soon!
 
sorry for triple post..this whole scenario pisses me off, and i keep getting mad and wanting to say more..i dont know for sure but i think this story is legit and i am definitely siding with the film crew..its a huge commitment to go all the way across the country to Oregon, for something thats not even a full job..

some people think that just because you are skiing all summer you can put up with bullshit..

Its not just skiing, it actually sounds like hard work..and working on the palmer snowfield in the sun cant be easy either. they probably dont even get a lot of ski time..

anyway..just because you are doing a job you love, and a job that a lot of people would also do, doesn't mean you should be treated like trash...
 
Thank you Casual - I am in that exact building business. BTW If I wanted to minimalize I would not be replying to this thread, I would have let it die.. It's quite the contrary. I want the truth, the problem identified cause then a solution can be found.

OK, New Summary Guess/speculation on my part.

Background: Eric has sold thousands of dollars of Filming through several dozen specialized DVD's to some individuals paying his price in previous years

This Spring:

Eric: Yo Tim, we on to film at Camp again this year?

Tim: Yeah man, except I want every camper to get a free DVD

Eric: Yeah Cool, campers would be super stoked and you will get more in return, I'll get you a price to do that when I get out there, it should be about $ per disc...

Tim: Ok! stoked! See you soon!

OK now, roll the clocks forward.

Eric does the math, figures out the lost revenue from individual sales and presents that along with production costs and presents it to Tim and Tim balks. Eric goes WTF! "I'm screwed" and then proceeds to sell some DVD's to recoup impending losses or to cover new expenses? Does anyone know at what price he was selling the DVD's?

What I said originally in this thread apparently still stands. The agreement for services of free DVD's for each camper was not agreed upon or Eric undercut himself and got himself in a huge bind. Both are to blame IMO and should work out their differences now!

 
Tim has NO CONTROL over the weather. its a risk you take going to an early, or late unpredictable session. that being said dont try to mix the emotions of a crappy session 1 with this bit about us all losing our jobs. one kid flew out yesterday just to find out upon arrival he flew out for no reason whatsoever.
 
Haha reading this thread is making me really upset that i spend $1800 of my hard earned money on this ski camp. believe me this drained my account and i had to have help from my parents who can't afford that either. I did it because it's suppost to be the "funnest place on earth." I'm leaving monday morning to go out there, if it's not to what it's supposidly been like i'm going to be so let down and dissapointed. I will also find some sort of way to sue them and get my money back. This is horrible.

Spending all of my money on a summer dream and it's not going to happen
 
Good god.. I am really still confused. You have passes, you have camera equipment, you still have campers. Get up there on the hill and find out which kids are willing to pay for the service and sell them a DVD!

I still don't understand this "firing" that occured, you guys didn't get paid in past years. What have you lost? It sounds like you still have everything available to make this work.

You guys didn't do the session edits, you guys were like exclusive private contractors and it sounds like you still can be.
 
I don't think they are allowed into Windells.........unless the passes are for Windells. They were going to be making 250 bucks a week..............they spent probably over a grand to get out to Oregon trying to chase their dreams at becoming a filmer and getting their names out there.

The snowpeception crew is all on here....nice.
 
Tim is and always has been under the accurate perception that he can pretty much do whatever he wants to his employess, because if they quit, there's a line of hundreds of little snowboard bums itching to take their places.

I lived at Hood and worked at the brew pub for a couple of summers, I didn't have anything to do with windells, but I was friends with a lot of Windells employees. It seems Windells is probably one of the worst summer jobs you could get (low pay if any, shitty living conditions etc.), you don't even get to ride that much really. But at the same time it seems that most of the people that worked at the camp were really immature and were there to party more than they were there to work (exclude the video guys from this generalization, Eric and his crew were always tight). I guess you get what you pay for right?

After two years of living at Hood I have some strong feelings about the camps and the egos and bullshit that go along with the camps and I can honestly say that if any High cascade digger tries to tackle me for skiing down next to their park in order to get to the MHSSC park somebody's going to get bloody.
 
Yeah, I tohught it was more than $200. I just didn't want to say way more and be way wrong...
 
Well, it should still be fun on the actual camp grounds... we will just have to win a shit load of stuff to make up for it, or at least you will !!
 
I was filming for the session video, rather than filming camper videos. Since we had sponsors lined up for the video, and we were supposed to be doing web updates and such along with the session video, we had a lot more responsibility in regards to what we were doing for camp. Last year, the first year the session video was done, the filmers didn't get paid at all, they had to buy their pass and were allowed to eat at camp, but that was about it.

However, Tim never officially put us on the payroll, and it's pretty obvious that he never actually intended to pay us from the start. Just get us to film until he felt he could get another group of kids to film for free, then drop us.
 
Thats not what I am getting. Eric bought the filmers thier Windells pass. Thats what was stated above. NOW - who was paying the $250 to the filmers? Windells or Eric?

If it is Eric, then your beef is with him regardless of how stand up the guy has been in previous years, he is your employer and he brought you there under a certain pretense.

If it is Windells that was paying the filmers directly and now won't because of some rift between Tim and Eric. Does anyone see where I am going with this?

Does this Eric guy have a website and how many videos at $750 does he average in a season? Any guesses? Tell me again why you guys can't be up there getting footage and making contact with potential clients? You have passes, equipment and campers and no pay - the same thing you had last year.
 
ya i have no idea who you are and apparently you have no idea who i am. I dont have any clothing co. I have not even been to or had any thing to do with windells or tim. Mike is a hell of a lot bigger than me, but he does do a good job I wll not deny that he just gets angry easy.

way to jump to conclusions
 
hmmmmm what about the short tempured guy who is really angry at them who happens to OWN the park.

Tim would definately not let them ride the park. Im pretty sure the passes are for timberline not windells.
 
Yeah, what you're saying makes sense, but Tim never said that we weren't permitted to sell DVDs to pay for costs associated with authoring DVDs for all the campers, that's why we were so shocked when he fired us. I've talked to several other people about this and they've told me that Tim told them that the session DVDs were supposed to be free to all the campers and that since he felt that Eric was being underhanded and shady by selling them to campers, there was no way he could trust him or have a working business relationship with him in the end. This reasoning makes absolutely no sense since he had already backed out on the authoring deal and Eric had made him aware that he was unable to author DVDs at that scale of production, due to the costs involved. Eric shouldn't have to pay for free DVDs for all the campers out of his own pocket. Tim needed to either cover the costs for the authoring or he shouldn't have asked Eric to hire session filmers in the first place.
 
As session filmers, we were supposed to be on Windells payroll and under the employ of the camp. Eric just appointed us for the job because we either applied for it or we were interns in years past and knew what kind of work we were capable of doing. Tim needs to pay us and our beef is with Tim, not Eric. This may seem confusing to a lot of people reading this because I am the only person posting in here who was actually supposed to be receiving any money out of this. The other dudes are interns who weren't making any money in the first place. Their deal is completely with Eric, they just lost their entire reason for coming out when he was fired.

Eric's been doing the video thing for about 5 years. He does around 60 or so in a year. He doesn't have a website, but he sends flyers out to all the campers coming to camp advertising the service.

Personally, I would not have come out to film unless I was getting paid. That was the bottom line for me. I may be in the same circumstances I was in last year, at least for a few weeks, but this year I am in a totally different situation financially than I was last year (I spent around $750 to get to camp). I would not have come out at all if I had known Tim never planned on paying us in the first place.
 
In reference to AdrenalineGarage's post. Tim never paid Eric for anything related to the session DVDs and never said that we would still have to provide DVDs for all the campers. He switched to wanting them produced for online distribution simply because he couldn't fund a distribution project on that scale.
 
Yeah damn............ As many hours as I have dived into this, it still appears to me that Eric made a deal with Tim and then backed out of it or tried to renegotiate it. Every thing points to Eric screwing this up from a black and white perspective, factoring out the past chill behavior of Eric or the assholish nature of Tim.

In a court.

Tim would owe Eric the original agreed to fee. Provided, Eric delivers DVD's to each camper. Interns are owed payment from Eric. Since Eric broke the agreement by selling DVD's instead of providing him them for free, a judge may decide to prorate the fee based on the sessions complete. However Eric would still have to provide DVDs for each camper in that session.

As far as the payment for the interns, a judge will rule that Eric owes those employees including yourself for your subcontract with Windells since it was compromised by Eric by no fault of your own.

Regardless of that being the "right" thing thats the way the cookie will crumble.

So curse Tim for being an ass and Eric for being a poor businessman.

In previous years, was the custom camper DVD fee paid to Windells or was it paid to Eric?
 
If I had to guess (and I do) I would say that there probably aren't any written contracts involved in any of this. That's just not how these things get done on Mt.Hood ya see?
 
Boy o boy.. the plot thickens. I knew there was more to the story.

Are you saying that when Eric said he couldn't produce that many DVDs that Tim then said to just do an online distribution?
 
yeah understood.. still, verbals are upheld when there is nothing else. This really sucks for the aspiring filmer.....
 
From my understanding of the posts, wasn't it...?

Background: Eric has sold thousands of dollars of Filming through several dozen specialized DVD's to some individuals paying his price in previous years

This spring:

Eric:Yo Tim, we on to film at Camp again this year?

Tim:Yeah man, its good, same thing

Eric: alright, good so heres the budget and all that

tim: looks good seeya out there

...later on, tim calls eric back into the office

Tim:Every camper needs a free dvd. we need to renegociate this budget

eric:Alright lets try, but I need money to produce the dvds. we depended on the money from campers buying them in previous years to cover production costs.

tim:sorry man, Im cutting that out of your budget. the campers get free dvds

eric:I can't give them free dvds if you cut my budget. I will have no way of producing them.

Tim:whatever, that's your problem.

then the rest happens

 
seeing as how they are prob banned from windells lane, it would prob be very hard for them to get windells campers to film with them. Plus without any organized program where kids' parents enroll them into it for an extra $750 before camp even starts, eric and the crew would have a tough time getting kids to film. ...imagine...hey kid want to film, it's only 750 and e arent affiliated with the camp. kid says ok, let me call my parents which the parents are already like fuck no, cause its sprung on them at the last minute and its some random guy on the lift, not a camp worker.

i guess eric and the rest of the guys could hope for more bad weather and fuck ups by windells to try and film kids at the public park, museums, and thrift stores.
 
Haha anyone else been watching this shit progressively get outta hand haha. Where the fuck is that guy with the ostrich skiing.

And i'm still calling we need a direct explanation from windells, preferably Tim or Eric.
 
Every transaction I have had in the ski industry except for a couple were under verbal agreement...no contracts or anything, which is funny, because the ones where there was no contract are the ones where I never got paid for film work I did.

Still though, what I like about the ski community is how you can usually trust other people and not have to bring legal bullshit into small transactions, but recent events have been squandering this righteous virtue...
 
I suppose the simple fact of this issue would be that Tim Windell overreacted when this Eric guy thought he wouldn't care. Tim does sound like a major asshole, from what I've read, but Eric also seems like he was acting rather unprofessionally in selling the videos without Tim's consent. Even though Eric's intentions were ethically justified, as a rule he should do only what his boss tells him he can do. Tim and Eric are both at some fault in this matter, and they need to both accept some responsibility for what went down. I really feel sorry for the guys who've been stranded by what occured, especially when it was not their fault. I hope none of you ever forget that no matter how chill and nice someone can seem, and even if you know that their intentions are good, they can still make mistakes and fuck you over.

As far as the session one skiers who, you have to admit, got ripped off, it's somebodies job to compensate them for that. If the weather didn't allow for skiing, they deserved some sort of partial refund for what they missed out on, because the money the paid is supposed to go to their skiing time, and if they don't get the skiing time they paid for, their money is simply going into Tim's pocket.

I personally would not attend any summer camp outside of Whistler, simply because their reputation is very good.
 
Tim and Eric Awesome Show? no but it sounds like no matter whos fault it was, the filmers got fucked. good luck to all+++
 
i am one of the session filmers out here at hood, the situation really does suck, we got screwed over.

I would advise everyone watch for a post by Eric shortly, it will be a straight-up explanation of what happened. Eric won't lie about anything and will be perfectly straight forward in what he says, and will be the truth. Hopefully it will answer all questions...

 
your an idiot. where do you guys get your ideas from? in past years the dvds have been independently sold. thats just how it went. this year tim wanted to do something different but he never followed through with the plan and then forgot that he didnt ever get to an agreement with eric so eric continued to do what he usually would of done, make pocket change of session videos.... and for all yu guys who think erics in it for the money---- he made friggin under 100 dollars off selling session videos to session 1- he also spent 36 hours which i can honestly vouch for editing together the session video. he stayed up all night and was still up in the morning editing when i woke up... so thats 36 hours editing, plus he was on hill 3 out of 6 days since the other 3 were rain days where he filmed from 945- 230pm those days, on the rain days he would as well go into camp for a few hours and get filler shots and activity filming. do the math buddy and you will see that in all reality if he were to be getting paid by the hour, he barely makes minimum wage. and not once did i hear eric complain about money issues. the night that tim fired our crew, he went over to tims house,brought him tims camera that he fixed for him and tried to give tim the money he made off session videos. open your eyes you idiots are so ignorant. you think hes a nice guy cuz he runs this "mazing" summer camp so you assume you know how he is. get a hint from the other 10 or so at least employees that have posted in this thread all saying negative stuff.....

is there a current employee yet that has said something positive about tim? tims in this to run his camp and do what he needs to do, we are all expendable. the first instant someone wants a raise, he can just fire them and rehire a new kid who will work for next to nothng. ask around
 
if your assuming that people who smoke bud wont get far in life your pretty fucking dumb

i have freinds who smoke everyday and get 90's in some of the highest level courses in high school.

other freinds who are doing really well in eginearing and also happen to smoke alot.

you'd be suprised how many of you and your freinds parents smoke chron. and they've obsiously put you in a good enough position so that your able to ski which is a super expensive sport which you only realize when you pay for all your own shit, gas everything.

sorry to get off track but i thought that was bs, just liek how windells didn't have a park set up for the campers, they should deffinitly get a refund or percentage off

 
I don't assume Tim is a nice guy. In fact, by all accounts he's a prick. You say these films have been independently sold in the past...that raises questions for me. What constitutes as independent...did Eric just obtain permission to film campers, or is it a service Windell's provides that Eric and crew are contracted to deliver? Secondly, the way things were done in the past means nothing. It's Tim's show. If an agreement wasn't reached as you say, what kind of sense does it make to assume that an old one remains? That would be like me mowing my neighbor's lawn last year for $15 a week, and assuming that when I show up with my mower tomorrow I'm leaving with $15 despite the fact that we talked about a change in plans. If your argument is that an agreement didn't exist, than what are we even talking about? If someone is going to post a public thread of this kind, that is vague, conflicting, and heated, other people are going to do their best to make sense of it. That's all I'm attempting to do. It sounds like a muddy situation, and I'm sorry that you guys are out to dry. It's clear your heated as your personally attacking me. If you're interested in helping people understand what took place...that's great. Assuming you are, a rant about the martyrdom of Eric isn't doing you any favors in relaying your message.

 
read the thread before you post you dumbass. there was no fucking agreement

you think your friggin smart dude? wtf kind of lawyer are you dude? go two plank man and stop tryin to sound smart cuz you look friggin dumb. there was NO agreement. if thats not hard to understand. they tried working on an agreement which was never made. one side thought one thing and one thought the other. common mistake, understandable right? where this all comes into play is the fact that there was no actual agreement. actually noone was even under contract becuase this was prob tims plan from the start so he would have easy outs if he found better ways to save money or so on. Tim clearly didnt like Eric over other matters non related and those of which are stupid as well. butas far as your statement goes there dude. shut the fuck up and learn to read.

another thing thats awesome about this whole situation that IS legal is the fact that we were not under contract so all the footage we filmed still belongs to us. Windells did not pay for our passes on the hill, so they cant claim that we only shot the footage becuase they made it possible, and on top of that windells private park was closed session one so they cant say that it was on their property. therefore any footage still is in totaly control of the filmers. so tell me this smartass.... in court, when tim windells decides to post our footage on line with his logo on it is that illegal with out our permission? tell me that if i took him to court over it ide not win?

shut the fuck up and have a seat. ignorant stupid ass fucks like you are the reason the industry is so fuckin gay. why dont you actually just take our jobs at windells man? your a dick, youd fit right in

all kidding aside though, yeah windells sucks.

and for all you history majors, this day in history, the magna carta was sealed
 
straight from the source according to tim, eric didnt work for tim, he work aside the camp independently where his work benefited both him and camp. thats what tim said so yeah, theres that answer
 
By all accounts it seems like this blows for the interns and session filmers who got fucked on this. I'm just trying to figure out wtf is going on here so can you answer these questions:

If Eric wasn't working for Tim, how can Tim "fire" Eric?

You previously said: "another thing thats awesome about this whole situation that IS legal is the fact that we were not under contract so all the footage we filmed still belongs to us. Windells did not pay for our passes on the hill, so they cant claim that we only shot the footage becuase they made it possible, and on top of that windells private park was closed session one so they cant say that it was on their property. therefore any footage still is in totaly control of the filmers. so tell me this smartass.... in court, when tim windells decides to post our footage on line with his logo on it is that illegal with out our permission? tell me that if i took him to court over it ide not win?"

What exactly is the problem then? You got fired by someone who isn't even your employer? Or is the problem that Tim said you weren't allowed on Windells property so now you can't do your own thing?
 
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