Occupy Pepper Spray Cop

seward

seward

Active member


So...

Occupy "protesters" are being evicted from their grounds in almost

every city that is being "occupied".

In this picture, students sat down to form a barrier so cops could not pass and

repeatedly stated the fact that they would not be leaving. When repeatedly

asked to move, the "protesters" continued to block the path.

Personally, when a police officer asks me to do something, i do it, even if i

dont agree with them, or if he is being a big meany, or im just mad at the

world, i still do it.

As a result of not moving for the police to get by AND not evicting the grounds

when asked to do so, the next obvious solution was to pepper spray the

"protesters". Nothing says get the fuck out of the way like having

your sight and repertory system temporarily disabled.

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of course now this officer is under alot of heat for being supposedly overly aggressive.

im not sure where i stand on this. as i mentioned, if a officer tells me to do

something i do it, cause i dont want to be pepper sprayed, and those guys HAVE

pepper spray. but on the other hand, ive never had a reason NOT to listen to

the cops. ive never been part of these "protests", ive never done

anything thats illegal, except for the obvious socially acceptable offenses.

hell, i dont even know if im considered the 1%, or the 99%.

it begs the question, how far is a officer allowed to go to complete his tasks.

In this case, their task was to remove occupiers. When the protesters refused,

the police used non-lethal means to aid in the eviction. On paper, everything

sounds ok to me.

either way, this cop is now famous, and it turns out that throughout the course

of history, he has sprayed much more then just bitchy baby students.

enjoy

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no, i would probably not do that. however if a officer told me to stop "occupying" an area that is not mine to occupy in the first place, i would leave.

yes, he COULD have walked around them. but the point was to remove the protesters, not walk around them.

yes, the cop COULD have simply went home and let the protesters move on. but again, this would defeat the purpose of evicting the protesters.

i think their oppinion was heard. but honestly, how long should they be allowed to occupy a space?

can i walk into your house, prop up a tent in the living room, and then when the cops come to arrest me i say "hey man, this is a peacefull protest against the 1%" and not except to get the boots?

i understand that hating on cops is all the rage with you kiddies these days, and i do agree that there is defiently a more reasonable way to eleviate this situation then pepper spray. but society shouldnt be allowed to do whatever the fuck they want because they consider it "peacefull".

 
seems like if he had walked 5 feet to the left or 5 feet to the right he could have made it around that line of people.
 
Um the appropriate reaction would have been to ticket each person who refused to leave when they were required to by law. Hey look, money! Money for things! Like education and parks and such! What's that you say? There was no regulation, ordinance or other thinamajig on the books that said they had to leave? Well then, surprise! They get to stay.

You don't have to do things because the police say so. That is not how it works. How it works is, the police tell you to do things because the law says you must do them, and if you do not obey the law, the police will take steps to ensure that you do, or in appropriate circumstances, punish you for not doing so. If there was a legal basis for making these people leave, the correct steps were:

1. Ask them to leave firmly

2. If they refuse, issue each one a ticket / fine, then just sit back and let the situation play out, so long as they're not hurting anyone.

3. If it's causing a serious problem for them to be there, i.e. public safety or somehow going to cost the city a bunch of money to clean up, i.e. if there is some overwhelming justification for doing so, arrest each one and remove them from the area.

4. If someone physically resists, subdue them using as little force as possible. You're a big enough dude that you probably don't need to taser a 120 lb girl.

5. If someone becomes violent, NOW is the time to bust out the pepper spray, tasers and riot gear.

I think these people are absolute idiots in terms of what they're "protesting", but this is clearly not acceptable. Two of them were hospitalized, others were lucky enough to just cough up blood for an hour or so. As a result they'll all probably sue the city, costing taxpayer dollars. The officer has no incentive whatsoever not to be brutal because his union will prevent him from being fired and his department will stick up regardless of what he does basically up to "eating children". I think the chief actually already said she was "proud" of how the officers handled the situation which is a farce. Both should be fired. Neither will be. At most, a slap on the wrist.

The best quote I've heard on this was from an Iraq vet who said "If I'd done that to a group of insurgents over there, I'd have been court martialed, and rightly so."
 
not gonna lie JD, i was kinda hoping you would see this and comment.

i agree with you 100%, that is what SHOULD have happened.

but we all know that will never happen.

im not justifing the actions of the officer by any means, i just think way way way too many people are looking for ways to harp on cops these days. Exspecially at these "protests".
 
Why the hell not? It's not difficult. I'm pretty sure it happens all the time, it's just the fuck-ups that actually make national news and turn into a big deal like this. Most cops do their job well and aren't assholes. Unfortunately, when they are assholes, or when they just plain screw up, there is no accountability: the department can't admit to any wrongdoing because it would just invite a lawsuit, and the union won't allow an example to be made because "there but for the grace of God go the rest of us, because anyone can screw up".

so there's little standing in the way of shit like this happening aside from cops being people and people generally not being complete dicks who like to effectively torture people for sitting around chanting. Hey, you know, that might actually be a better thing to protest than, "successful businesses and the people who run them have lots of money and I don't even though I stumbled through college and that seems vaguely unfair to me".
 
Hmmmmmmmm, I still don't have a solid opinion on this one

I just don't see the ticketing really being an effective way to go about it. It's almost a guarantee that if asked for id they would have claimed not to have them/given bs names. Then what?

 
I believe if you are unable to provide identification they are allowed to hold you in custody without arresting you for a certain period. It probably depends on the state. If ultimately they were found to have ID, I imagine there is a fine of some sort involved for obstruction. Should anyone pursue this path, all of this should be pointed out to them, i.e. it's easier if you give me your driver's license and I write you a ticket than having to be handcuffed, taken away and subjected to larger fines.
 
imagine the cops went around trying to ticket all the occupy protesters?

ya

fucking

right.

im so on the fence about this one.

again, i agree with you 100% that there is and was other ways to solve this issue.

but im still not sure what the cop did was wrong.

there are many ways to arrive at the same conclusion, he had his, and you have yours.

i dont beleave for a second this officer thought to himself "hey, im a cop, and if i pepper spray these pussies the worst i am going to get is a slap on the wrist". He more likely thought "hey, i need to get these people out of here right fucking now and they wont budge, what is a non-lethal means for me to get my point out that im not fucking around here".

and, the previous picture took place.
 
the first amendment only goes so far. Yes, you have the right to free speech. However that does not give you the right to trespass and set up what amounts to a camp for homeless people anywhere you want for as long as you please. Just like you don't have the right to block roads and refuse to move when asked to leave the area upon which you are trespassing. And just because your protest is peaceful does not mean you have impunity from the law.

These people were told to move, and they didn't. They sat down and locked arms, pretending to be civil rights protestors. They were warned about what was going to happen. They still refused. So they got pepper sprayed.

The police didn't have any other choice. They had to get them out. Ticketing them wouldn't do anything to achieve that goal. Prying them apart would have lead to more injuries, and also risked starting a full blown riot had anyone in that crowd attacked one of the cops, who was now vulnerable because he was leaning over trying to pry kids apart. I'm not saying that would have happened, but the police have to look at all possible consequences.

And on top of that, the occupiers and their followers seem to believe that anytime a police officer lays hands on them in any way, it's police brutality. And that would lead to more negative publicity for the police than this, so they did the only real option.
 
1) This protest is covered under free speech, the fact that some of you are agreeing with the police gives me little faith for the future of this country. These Occupy protests are testing the limits of freedom, and the results are in; we have no freedom and we have no control over our own government. That problem can be fixed, and it has been fixed constantly over the course of history. What can't be fixed is this strange macho posturing that a lot of the young, entitled, dip shits on this website and in the public have adopted. Let me make this very clear, the accomplishments of your parents in no way transfer to you, you are not going to be rich, you are not going to make the world a better place in any way, unless you realize what is going on, and do something about it.

2) Stop saying anything about getting a job. This movement has NOTHING to do with individual employment. It is about the interaction between corporate interests and government. You cheapen everything that is accomplished with comments like this and they help no one. They just make you look like a fool.

3) Vote. Learn about glass-steagall and Citizens United.

4) Stop watching cable news.
 
Your view of the constitution:

You can protest as long as you don't gather in any particular location, do exactly what law enforcement tells you (even if it violates the constitution) and if you chose to remain non violent you will be sprayed with chemicals and beaten. Grow up.
 
Well mine doesn't involve torturing people, leading to massive lawsuits against the PD and the municipality. So I think mine is relatively good, while his really really sucks. Seriously, what does this even mean? Had he gone around lopping the protesters' heads off with an axe, you could still say "he had his way of doing things, you have yours", that doesn't somehow make them morally or pragmatically equivalent. What a strange comment.

As for "WOW I REALLY NEED TO GET THESE PEOPLE OUT OF HERE RIGHT FUCKING NOW"... why? Was there a train coming through? Was a bomb about to go off? It looked to me like they were sitting in a walkway. Not a lot of urgency involved there. Actually, not even a lot of inconvenience for everyone else, and even if a group of people are being a huge nuisance by standing in the way, balance that against excruciating pain and potentially blinding someone for life and maybe inconvenience is the better route to take here.

Yes, you can individually ticket every occupy protestor. That's the beauty - they're just sitting there. Walk up, issue ticket, if someone cannot provide ID, take them into custody, all very calm and no one gets hurt. Hell, where I live they had one of these "occupy" things in a park here. They were allowed to stay for a while, and then when they stayed past that point, people started handing out eviction notices, and then tickets. Chemical weapons were not necessary.
 
I agree. It's unfortunate he had to do that, but his job was to remove the protestors and they refused to cooperate. I don't really see what else he was expected to do.
 
Don't you have auditions for a roommate to attend to. Didn't you get a worthless degree that will require you to live with roommates for the rest of your pathetic life?
 
Surely you understand the difference between sitting in a public space and breaking and entering into private property? Right? Surely you get that? So obviously you know that you're misrepresenting the protesters with your post. So why do it?

I don't understand why people can't just have a reasonable discussion about a situation like this. It is not okay for cops to pepperspray non-violent, non-resisting protesters. Just because your parents told you that protesters are dirty hippies doesn't mean cops can do no wrong.
 
I agree with the cop. But with that said, as a BASE jumper I'm not a big fan of law enforcement in the recent past.

BTW. Every time I click into my bindings I am the 1% and completely free.

I like what they are doing, but I don't feel sorry for them when they get a little oleoresin Capsicum in the face.

Sure, corporate controlled government has gone to far, and I'm glad there is a movement. But I feel pretty blessed with all that I have (which is way more than I have ever worked hard for) so I wont be empathizing with a group of protesters that for the most part have no idea why they are even there.

Stay Jaded.
 
You know your country is fucked when a cop can assault a small group of people sitting peacefully on the ground on public property and people will suggest "it was his only option..." or something along those lines.Violence is not necessary in this situation.
 
Individual liberties depend on your level of income and personal appearance.

How many times have you seen Tea Party protestors clash with police? Remember when that tea party guy walked around with an assault rifle? I am sure that level of police restraint would certainly carry over to OWS protests.

I know it is not on the same level, but I feel like some of the people in this thread would be defending police for using fire hoses on blacks "to give them a bath."

The same applies to our justice system. Steal $100, jail for 3 years. Steal $10,000,000 get bailed out by the government.

 
hmmm, im not sure if pepper spraying someone is really torture.

my girlfriend tickles my feet sometimes. she does it because she likes to tuck the sheets into the end of the bed, where as i like them untucked so i can hang my feet off the end of the bed. as a result of me not listening to her request to not untuck the sheets, she tickles my feet because she knows i dont like it. i dont like her tickling my feet because it discomforts me. is she really torturing me?

could i file a lawsuit? could i take her for everything shes got?

and no, lopping peoples heads off with an axe would not be acceptable JD. lets use some common sense here.

again no, i dont think there was a train about to come through, or a bomb about to go off, but im sure you already knew the answers to those questions. I do think those officers were given a job, that job being to evict the protesters. again, imagine the cops went back to headquarters and said sorry chief, we couldnt remove the protesters because they sat down crossed legged and locked arms together.

traffic light duty for weeeeeeks.

if cops could use your ticketing method for everything, then why do they even have pepper spray? why do they carry guns? why do they have hand cuffs to restrain people?

just give them some roller skates, a book of tickets, and a bouquet of flowers and set them out into the "peacefull protests".

again, in an ideal world, your method would work. but take a look around JD, we dont live in a ideal world.
 
Okay, now tell us what you would have done. Keep in mind these people have been camping in this space for weeks now and have no intention of moving. Their presence has been proven to be illegal at this stage.

What's the next move? No violence allowed, so you can't touch them either. What do you do?
 
It's not necessary the act of pepper spraying. However, I suggest you have someone pepper spray you some time. Even in a 100% friendly environment the effects are devastating. Instantly every one of your senses are attacked. Your vision becomes blurry and unfocused. Your eyes, throat, mouth, ears and exposed skin burn like they are on fire. You can't breathe, you can't speak. You are overwhelmed with panic, pain, and disorientation. This feeling lasts for several hours.

Now imagine this sensation in a hostile environment. The psychological aspects are more powerful. You have lost your rights, you have lost your ability to defend yourself, you have been chemically attacked.

It is most certainly torture. Getting your feet tickled is not, I feel like it would be insulting for me to explain the differences.

Also people have direct control over their actions. Saying that you are just doing your job makes you a coward.
 
Let them continue to protest peacefully? What was such a big issue that they had to use chemicals to extract them from sitting on the ground?
 
Seriously, screw the protesters. Their "Occupy" protests haven't done anything but make for news stories and as an excuse for the protesters to not work. Some people need to learn to QB and learn that life won't always be fair.
 
These are my thoughts. The course of action that he took was definitely not what he SHOULD have done and yet I applaud him. He was authorized by the school to make them leave, he gave them 3 minutes to leave the area and after that he pepper sprayed those stupid granola eating flower power hippies so they would get the f off the ground. You might say that "It's for a good cause" or "These people are just standing up for their beliefs" but really it was just a bunch of neo-hipsters who are a mixed breed of full on hipster and hippy and they don't really stand for anything except for wanting to be a part of a movement that isn't moving anything.

Let them protest all they want, I don't care if they protest but if they get in the way of things some action needs to be taken. I bet that the cop involved has been having to deal with these hippies for months now ever since the movement started and it was time that they learned their lesson.

Score

Cops:1

Hippies:0
 
"We don't live in an ideal world" is a huge cop-out. That does not mean that there aren't clearly better and entirely feasible ways to deal with protests than to put kids in the hospital for sitting on the ground.

Yes, the use of pepper spray is a form of torture, in that it is intended to cause people excruiciating pain in order to subdue them. If you want to compare that to you playing with your girlfriend, that's quite a stretch. Sometimes, hurting people into submission is necessary. However, this is only true where the alternative is worse. People continuing to sit on the ground is not worse.

The problem here is if they'd done that, just given up, the results would have been far better than the results ended up being. It would have cost no one anything, no one would be hurt, no one would be hospitalized, and no one would be sued. People might have been annoyed. That's about it. But you're drawing a false dilemma: the other option was not to throw their hands up in the air and go home. They locked arms together? Oh wow, there's an impossible hurdle to overcome. "Chief, we caught these bank robbers, but we just can't seem to get them in handcuffs since they locked arms together!" Come on now. Somehow, I think you'll manage.

Cops have pepper spray and guns because sometimes, instead of taking the fine, the guy you're trying to arrest, instead of going quietly, tries to hit you in the face with a rock. At that point, you use the weapons. You don't fucking start with them.
 
This movement has educated thousands of people on the injustices of the economic system that is slowly destroying your great country right now. You cannot say that they have done nothing so far.
 
idk, just arrest them I guess. I don't see how fucking them all up really solves anything, its not liek he just pepper sprayed him and it was instantly over and they'll never come back, they were laying there all fucked for over an hour and it required a lot more public employees ambulance/fire to respond and spend their time there.

Pepper spraying them took longer, required more people to become involved, caused physical pain, and caused an incredible amount of public outcry, not really a logical solution. The fact that we're even talking about it should be proof enough for you.
 
it wasnt a public space...... thats the whole problem here man.

im not representing or misrepresenting the protesters. im representing my ideas and beliefs.

we are having a reasonable discussion.

for as long as i can remember my parents have never said the words "dirty hippy" to me, so im not too sure where my parents come into this.

im at an age where outside influence does not effect my decision making or ideas. therefore, even if my parents were to try and convince me that these "protesters" are "dirty hippies", im certain i would be capable of coming to my own conclusion on who and what they actually are.
 
I do not know much about public space laws but does it change the public/private laws when the students are paying for access to the school?
 
It opened up a national dialog on government issues.

It pointed out the limits of American Freedom.

It exposed the police state we all live in.

It has drawn attention to controversial recent legal rulings.

What have you ever done to better your country besides telling people what the need to learn?

 
now that doesn't accomplish anything for the police or the school though, does it?

And they could have arrested them, but like I said, it would've been a hell of a lot harder than people think. They were already on the ground linked together as a way of resisting the police, so how would doing that be any easier?
 
Public University

We paid for this school. Every dollar the government spends, we contributed to. It is our school, not the governments school.
 
Alright so that reinforces the point that it was ridiculous for the school to even call in the police in the first place. These students were not showing any signs of violence so why would they need to be taken out in the first place?

I understand shutting down some of these occupy protests but to me it just seems like the people that these protesters are protesting against are starting to get scared that the vision of the protesters is actually starting to be discussed more seriously. These occupy protests seem pretty damn successfull to me.
 
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