Obama Bows again!

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youre a fucking dumb piece of shit. everything you say just shocks me more and more. You are the reason why we are so arrogant to begin with.
Apparently the rest of the world doesnt learn history....

First of all who governs the "rights" after invasion? More or less countries can do whatever the fuck they want after they defeat you. The sad reality is, every country must do what every other country would do.Enter prisoner's dilemma. I don't want to elaborate, you can google prisoner's dilemma.
I don't see England going over to fucking Germany and building a bunch of shit there? Ever heard of the Postdam Conference?! Ever heard of the BERLIN FUCKING WALL?? Ever heard of East Germany?
One of the fucking agreements of the Postdam Conference was that average quality of life in Germany could not exceed the average quality of life in England, effectively giving England the right to any tarriffs, taxes, embargos, sanctions, etc it wanted to impose to ensure what is a completely ridiculous provision in the first place.
After WW2, Russia owned half the fucking world!!! They occupied like 20 new countries?! And here you are pissed about a couple bases of sovereign territory on a country that invaded us?!?
I mean, you the UK (i assume youre from the UK), invented imperialism!!! You guys have territories known as the "Dominions" and still have so many Crown Colonies.
If the UK werent so bankrupt after WW2 and didnt need to borrow so much money from Marshall Aid and the US, and could sustain more colonies, you guys wouldve taken over all of western germany.
So don't you start lecturing the United States on building bases on countries it successfully defended itself against.
 
lolz

youre so hung up on laws and preexisting notions that they govern humanity. it's hillarious, I'm actually laughing at how stuck in your ways you are
 
what the fuck!? youre just putting that assertion in my mouth, not making a rational arguement!
Did i ever even come close to implicitly or explicitly arguing Nixon over Obama!?
All i was doing was giving a distinction between presidents who have bowed to japanese leaders before, and the different bow obama gave this time.
I wasnt saying the other presidents were better in anyway as president. All im saying is you cant bring up past bows to justify obamas bow, due to the clear disparity in bow angle.
Now if this sounds extremely silly to you, don't blame me, blame Japanese culture.
If you're about to call out how ridiculous this sounds, all you are doing is contradicting your own call for tolerance of other cultures.
 
ignore my last post, i hadn't refreshed in a while

first of all, i'm pretty sure he doesn't live in America, i think he's made that abundantly clear

second you think that we should just control any country we invade? yes, they started the war, atleast the war between us and them, but that doesn't give us the right to control them. i personally think it's wrong we forced them to not have an army after the war. and i understand why we bombed them. do i think it's possible that we could have done something else? yes. countless japanese citizens who had no stake in the war were killed or injured. so personally, i think other options would have been better, but i understand why they did it. americans were dying and something did need to be done
 
word. if you think its wrong to be respectful of someone elses traditions in their own country, you are a typical ignorant american dick.
 
ok I'll call you out. I have absolutely NO respect for culture and social norms and all that bullshit you think is so important. there you go. I'm sorry you have lived your life so rigidly. but if you truly enjoy it, I mean, are TRULY happy with arguing over pointless politics then more power to you.
 
YOURE ARGUING ABOUT A FUCKING BOW.

NOBODY IN THE FUCKING WORLD GIVES A SHIT ABOUT IT APART FROM CONSERVATIVE RIGHT-WING FUCKTARD IDIOTS SUCH AS YOURSELF.

/cruise control.
 
however if you take the cosine of his bow angle and devide it by pi, you will see that it clearly was well within the U.N. regulated bow-leadership theorum created by albert einstien
 
well the way you put it was that nixon bowed to him and obama's bow was lower (which according to your past posts means more submissive); doesn't take a genius to think that was implied. i'm not saying bowing is ridiculous. i wasn't saying it was ridiculous, the angle of the bow doesn't affect my opinion of the president at all.
 
We couldnt drop flyers because the air squads used in dropping the atomic bomb consisted of pretty much 1 b-29 which is very vulnerable to anti aircraft guns as opposed to a standard raid which could consist of 300 b-29s closely guarded with fighter support. Now after all the effort that went into nuclear development, including sabotage with nazi germany and ussr, how could we let 1 of our 2 operational devices go to waste?
We didn't kill 200,000. We killed 66,000 and about 72,000 respecively. I know its not trivial but it was common to World War II. Again you lack perspective, 130,000 people seems like a lot compared to a war which has cost the US 5,000 casualties, but keep in mind 40 million people died for WWII. WWII is not 90's war. Must be tough for our generation to understand but imagine 300 enemy aircraft over your head dropping bombs.
Todays bombing missions consist of 2 aircraft.
Its generally accepted that without the atomic bombing of japan, the invasion of Japanese mainland would have been impossible and the Japanese were devoted to fighting it out to the end.
And you cant just speculate that it could have been done differently. Again, you live in a very liberal progressivist age, you really don't know much. All i can say is when confronted with these situations you must consider prisoners dilemma. Remember, you have citizens yourself you must protect.

You really need to start educating yourself rather than consider this to be a waste of time.
 
false. the planes werent vulnerable at all. they were flying at 30k+ feet, well above the range of japanese fighters, and AA.
 
i like how you've ignored the fact that nobody in the fucking world gives a shit about the angle at which Obama bowed, apart from you and Fox News.
 
lolz
congrats you grew up during the 90s where the biggest war casualty total you have witnessed is 5,000. You can't even begin to comprehend what foreign nations would do to the world or the US if they could.
I love how you hope for world peace and that everyone can just get along. Its hilarious. I'm actually laughing at how naive you are.

Again, if you were the head of a state with 300 million civilians depending on you for security, im sure you would see things differently.
You always have to consider what your opponent would do to you if you didn't do it first. You also have to consider what your opponent would do to you in retalliation if your actions are too harsh.
anyway, i think graphics and wikipedia can explain it better
gametheory.gif

In its classical form, the prisoner's dilemma ("PD") is presented as follows:Two suspects are arrested by the police. The police have insufficient evidence for a conviction, and, having separated both prisoners, visit each of them to offer the same deal. If one testifies (defects from the other) for the prosecution against the other and the other remains silent (cooperates with the other), the betrayer goes free and the silent accomplice receives the full 10-year sentence. If both remain silent, both prisoners are sentenced to only six months in jail for a minor charge. If each betrays the other, each receives a five-year sentence. Each prisoner must choose to betray the other or to remain silent. Each one is assured that the other would not know about the betrayal before the end of the investigation. How should the prisoners act?If we assume that each player cares only about minimizing his or her own time in jail, then the prisoner's dilemma forms a non-zero-sum game in which two players may each cooperate with or defect from (betray) the other player. In this game, as in all game theory, the only concern of each individual player (prisoner) is maximizing his or her own payoff, without any concern for the other player's payoff. The unique equilibrium for this game is a Pareto-suboptimal solution, that is, rational choice leads the two players to both play defect, even though each player's individual reward would be greater if they both played cooperatively.

the world isnt as simple as your hot boxed car kid. millions of peoples lives depend on what our world leaders do, and what they do is ultimately governed by the laws of game theory, not humanity. grow up.
 
hah.
i don't actually care how much obama bowed. I care more about proving people with high, aloof, arrogant, though unsubstantiated ideas, wrong.
I care more in socratically exploring the bullshit sound bytes kids put up. i
 
no but what i lack in direct life experience, i supplement with a very large amount of higher education.
and thats what i ask kids to do the same. they ought to pursue more knowledge and ideas. they ought to learn before they talk.

 
Im pretty sure this thread is about the angle at which Obama bowed at... last time i checked.

Im not going to go into the whole Japan thing because i agree that the bombs needed to be dropped... however, i dont know why youre getting into the prisoners dilemma thing... you're just dragging this more and more off topic and its just going to turn into a debate discussing moral ideologies soon...

plus we havent finished our invention discussion.
 
right, sorry, i forgot, everyone's a fucking idiot except you? that's right. i should have remembered that before i posted in this thread, in retrospect it was such a waist of time. there's not a chance that there are other people on this sight who not only are intelligent, but have direct life experience. i can't count myself as one of that group, i've never been to japan, or asia at all for that matter, but i've seen countless people in this group who have been to asia or are asian themselves, and they back up their points intelligently and with their own experiences.
 
i never said no one can be intelligent. I judge people based on what they post here. If their posts are filled with idiocy, retardation, and unsubstantiated sound bytes, i will call them out for that.
these days i rarely talk like that to the few liberals who actually offer some discourse.
I think you guys should all take an example from ben:
Ben knows he's an idiot ;)But Ben is also really knowledgeable in say, (read: useless, leftists heresy) social theory, where i can only argue with my own rational experiences.Ben defers and restrains on areas he is not adequately up to speed on, and only comments on those which he has a valid opinion on.
Ben is not the same idiot everyone else is. Neither is P-Face, or Drew.
Basically all you have to do is read a book.
 
Not true. Honestly, you seem very knowledgable, yet you still make idiotic remarks like obama bowing will ruin our country.

Has there ever been any recent wars or conflicts that started from a sign of respect?
 
youre playing word games....
I didnt say only nixon you shit head. I included ALL the presidents who have EVER bowed to japanese leaders. Don't tell me what i'm implying or not implying.
Jesus if youre going to take the LSATS someday and you take that kind of logic with you.... well all i can say is good luck.
 
i never ever once made that claims
So after you guys get defeated at the academic level you try to attack me on the character level.
Once i call you out for using that cheap tactic, you resort to putting words in my mouth.
I never once said it was a big deal.
All i said was that it was in fact a submissive gesture that was most likely inappropriate for the President of the United States.
Not once did i say it was a big deal.
The only reason it seems like i care is because it takes me about 5 minutes to type up these large posts and relaying all of this politcal knowledge is not draining to me.
Moreover, you can see after my initially small post, i only respond in refutation to other posts which are targeted largely at me.
 
I know the prisoner's dilemma, I've studied game theory a fair bit actually. I'm no expert, but I know enough to realize that it's essentially unimportant bullcrap. It's a fabrication of the human mind, along with pretty much all the knowledge out there. I also believe that humans are one of the stupidest species on the planet, despite our supposed intelligence. War is human fabrication, money and power and supposed possession of land is all a concept. Millions of people's lives are determined by what each one of them do, not by what one man does. Alpha males were originally solely for the purpose of reproduction and the protection of his family/tribe from the forces of nature (i.e. other animals, storms, etc.) We live in a state of anarchy, but it's people like you who somehow decided to turn the interaction of our species into 'game theory.' In fact, most of the world has bought into it. It annoys me, and it should probably annoy you too, because the earth was perfectly well off before humans went and started killing themselves and other life forms off in mass numbers for the acquisition of territory. Now, we don't kill each other for territory. What do we kill for then? Power? Money? All of us are the same deep down inside; we are all animals. We all have the basic instinct to provide for ourselves and our family. We all have the instinct to reproduce. That's about it.

You should probably disregard everything you think of as rational, because this "knowledge" of yours has no effect on the world as a whole. I'm pretty sure greed is a mental defect, because I know that I would be perfectly happy in my life living on a farm, growing my own food, and supporting myself with a family. Isn't that was the communities way back when came together for? Homo sapiens migrated, just like other species. I'm looking at the bigger picture here, while you are focused on these social customs that, in the long run, don't really contribute to what is keeping us alive. Don't FUCKING bite the hand that feeds. That hand is Earth and the intricate web of life forms that exist on it. It is these life forms that hold the universe as we know it together. As I said before, I'm truly sorry that you have decided to focus on these unimportant details of the overcomplicated social habits of humans.
 
congrats did you just read J. Boronowski or something? All your hippie philosophy is oh so profound and insightful.
unfortunately we live in reality. I don't care how much of an illusion game theory is to you, but if the guy sitting across from the fire wants your meat and he has a big stick, you better start thinking about game theory.
If there is 1 woman you want and your friend wants does the resulting dynamic not qualify as "real"?
Is the threat of the Soviet Union nuking us not real?
The atomic bomb is also a human "fabrication". Do you consider that real?
You just proved my point. Everyone, despite our best attempts at delusion, acts based on their basic instinct to reproduce. A layer above that, we also have an evolutionary mechanism that governs social behavior: we are inherently social creatures with evolutionarily programming.
To those ends, the man who wins is the man with a bigger stick. When that stick can hurt everyone equally, and the game becomes non zero-sum, then you must employ game theory to determine the best course of action.
Humans are not totally rational. If they were, we would all be peaceful. Unfortunately we are not, and collective social groups (read: nations or maybe states), are evolutionarily predisposed to help only their own kin out.
I think, sir Fryanator, that your anarchist philosophy would be better paired with Realism ideology rather than the incongruent hippie? ideology you current prescribe to.
 
Our American society perceives a bow as submissive because that is how are society judges it. But there are cultures outside of the United States, and those have certain greetings that are different than ours.

Men kiss in the Middle East, people bow in Asia, that is just how a greeting is done there. The western world has been ignoring growing powers in Asia and South America for a long time, and only recently have they been giving them attention. This is directly related to that, Obama wants to show that he respects their culture and is willing to talk to them as an equal.

He is fucking saving our economically sunk ass.
 
shits been gone over already. Japan's, not ours alone, culture perceives bows as submissive especially the manner in which obama bowed.

you know what you sound like? you sound like a religious zealout. how do you know anyone in Washington is saving our economically sunk ass?
Washington has done nothing but kill our economy back and forth, right and left.

 
God you are fucking stupid. Seriously, get the fuck out. You have no clue about Asian culture if you think they believe that bowing is submissive.
 
obviously not in the modern realm or bowing in general....
youre going to call me stupid? youre going to tell me to get the fuck out before you even begin to substantiate your claim that bowing ISNT submissive.
im so sick of you fucking retard kids with your 120 iqs and your shitty grades. good luck doing anythign with your life you fat fucking loser.
We were talking about political decorum and bowing in Japanese ettiquette. In POLITICAL DECORUM, BOWING DEEPER AND LONGER DISPLAYS YOUR SUBMISSIVE POSITION IN THE HIGHERARCHY.
goddammit youre a fucking retard.

half of you don't know shit about japanese culture, asian dynamics, japanese system of government, bowing ettiquette, international relations, or political decorum.
Apart from that, what relevant knowledge do you bring to the table you dumbass?

 
I don't know who J. Boronowski is. I don't care who he is, and if he has the same philosophies as I do, then whoopee. I don't know where you get off talking about how the atomic bomb is real or not. You don't even know if it was real or not, do you? Lives were lost, it obviously had a large affect on the region as a whole environmentally as well. It upsets me that that group of people felt the need to attack others in the first place though.

The support communities that worked, and that always have worked, are smaller ones. Tribes. Not nations, or states. Fuck that shit. Communism obviously doesn't work because of what you and I agree on, which is the idea of an alpha male, or leadership. It's an evil necessity. Why do you think gangs were created? They are small tribes. I don't pledge allegiance to any nation. You want to call me American because I was born in America? Go for it. I call myself a human. I know I could support myself if the USA collapsed like Rome did (which I believe will happen one day). I know how to farm, I know how to build my own shelter. If you rely on the destructive system of governments and nations, you'll probably end up having a difficult time finding your way in the world in, say, 50 years.

Humans now are so violent toward each other because of scarcity. I'm sure you know what that concept is. Everything that you stand for, the nationalism and the progression of the species as a whole and its ridiculous customs is what removed the resources that we need. Humans are shooting themselves in the foot.

But wait, weren't we talking about Obama lowering his head a little bit? Doesn't seem like such a huge deal now does it.
 
obama's bow was not submissive, he meant it as a sign of respect, and clearly that's how it was perceived by the majority of America seeing as you're pretty much alone on this one. if the ratio carries over into the real world i think he did the right thing. you lost this time juminster, now it's time to give it a fucking rest. i think we're all tired of this
 
From my understanding, this is how bows work in Japan.

*The depth of the bow constitutes the ammount of respect you have for the person. Broken down as such

*15 degree bow is a casual greeting

*30 degree bow: Most common

*45-degree looking down at your feet: Deep gratitude and respect

*Bows are given to elders, royalty, and superiors

From what I know, it seems as if the depth of the bow was appropriate for the situation. He is the emperor of Japan, would you just give the Queen of England a handshake, or would you kneel? I am not even American, but I would kneel.

I really don't like that you decide to simply pigon hole people as a "religious zealot" when religon is not being discussed nor do you know the persons stand is on religion whatsoever.

He is saving our ass, the absolute catastrophe that would of unfolded if that money wasn't spent would have totally crippled this country on the spot. He is now working to better our relationship with other nations so they don't leave us hanging in the wind in our time of need.
 
My ONLY issue with it is how deep he bowed. He bowed close to a 90 degree angle and you really aren't supposed to go past 45 degrees, but most westerners do not know this so something like that can slide.
 
whats to stop my tribe from over running your tribe and pillaging your village?

believe me, i hate an intrusive, expanding government. but i recognize we need to protect some basic human rights. IE property rights, right to life. (im not here to argue rights) but there are pretty much two violators of rights. criminals, and governments. we have government to uphold laws, and punish the criminals. we have people to keep government in check. (hopefully)

 
Ok Japan attacked, and continued to attack us in the first place. Just puttin that out there. Just puttin that before the world bothered us, we were isolationist.
Small tribes are more cohesive, no shit, because concentrated interests have few like minded supporters. Small tribes cannot build schools, can not overcome comparative advantage (google it, its another one of your "fabricated" economic ideas), cannot specialize labor, cannot produce large cities, cannot produce information, cannot educate you or i to the degree we do, we could not ski, we could not do anything tha twe do today. we could hunt and strive to survive.
Before society, average life expectancy was under 30. In civilized worlds we now marry around 25 and live around 75.
Again, you are lacking in historical perspective. What do you mean humans NOW are so violent? Do you mean that in the context of our entire existence, or compared to Roman times, biblical times, or what?
No matter what, i can guarantee you, despite your own short experience, we live in a much more peaceful world today. Our war casualties are measured in few thousands, not few millions.
Tribes used to kill each other for food. Would you rather 2 300 million people nations war with their 100,000 people armies, or would you rather 15 million 20 man tribes battle in a free for all? In fact early humans probably wiped out neanderthals as a race completely through fighting.
Homo erectus, a proto-hominid invented weapons to be used on other homo erecti
Hannibal killed over 100,000 Romans in one day of battle. People in ancient times were used to killing several hundred thousand men by sword and spear.
625,000 americans lost their lives in the civil war.
60 million people were killed in world war ii.
1,100,000 vietmenese were killed on both sides. 58,000 americans lost their lives in the vietnam war
compare that today where we have relatively low crime compared to the 60's, and our wars cost 5,000 soldiers, not 5 million.
How are you going to argue that collectively, small tribes, on average had greater access to resources than humans do today? Youre going to tell me a nomadic tribesmen would have access to nylon or plastic, materials which have been used to save countless numbers of lives? Or are you one of those earth types that believes humans prosper but are only parasitic beings to the earth?
 
good you and the rest of your fucked up country can get the fuck off the face of the planet. You call yourself japanese, all you are is a product of US money you ungrateful fuck.
For the record, your country has killed more people by number in the act of invading than the entire UN permanent security council, including the USA, combined.
 
im only hateful when retards call me dumb. look through all my posts and find me something hateful that wasnt a direct rebut of some other dumbass kids post.
yes im from boston, yes i was born in southie. I live in a nice suburb and go to a very progressive/liberal university though.
 
And YOU are the reason that much of Europe, South America, Canada, Asia, Africa, and the Pacific Islands hate the USA. Your feeling of superiority.

And you talking about us killing more people makes no sense cause your sentence structure is fucking pathetic. Seriously, Japan has killed more people? Let us see the people the US has killed. Revolutionary War, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, VIETNAM!!!!, Gulf, Afghanistan, and Iraq...........
 
Hahahah, oh man am I good at guessing shit. I fucking hate Boston, especially Southie. Everytime I go there I feel like I am back in the 1930s, all that's missing is the fire hoses and "colored only" water fountains.

 
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