NSTOR - Lets make selling better

RudyGarmisch

RudyGarmisch

Active member
Staff member
Ok, so many of you are probably farmiliar with the NSTO thing I started/have been somewhat maintaining. Doug got interested in the idea, so I sent him an email:

Hey Doug, its Rowen from NS,

So you asked about the whole NSTOR idea. Let me give you a quick background about what I started:

So back in Feb of this year, I was frustrated. Frustrated by the rise in scams on NS and of repeated bad buyers making off with peoples money. Also incredibly annoyed by the pages and pages of the "good buyer/seller" thread, but having to search through every page when I wanted to see if someone had a transaction history and if they could be trusted. So I came up with an idea to try and make things better; The NewSchoolers.com Trade Organization. I had plans for a cult of admins and such, but that never materialized to much to be honest. I'll explain the idea of the list and skip over that part:\

The NSTOR file is in essence, all of the user submitted feedback from transactions made on NS. I went through the sticky in ski equipment and made a huge list of all the users that were 'recommended' by others and compiled a list of how many times they were mentioned. I figured that getting a mark for being a good seller was worth two points, a good buyer 1 point (since buying takes less work/commitment) and 1.5 points for good trade transactions. If they just got a random 'props to XXXXX" I gave them 1 point. Thats the basic system. Every time someone mentions you as a good seller or buyer, you get an according point. This is added to your total to get your NSTOR: NS Trade Organization Rating. Members that buy/sell/trade a lot will eventually get high ratings - and accordingly, you should feel like you can trust these people a little more than your average user. While its still a system that people COULD manipulate to increase their own rating, via multiple accounts and such, its the best we can get for now. So far, nobody has tried to mess with it, so trust has worked so far.

Bad sellers and deals have occured with this list, and I've gotten a few messages from people about these. The rules I've worked out so far with bad transactions and getting marked as a bad seller are as follows:

-If someone claims someone is a bad seller or buyer, the claim is made on the buyer seller thread thats stickied. If the other party fails to respond within 30 days to the claim, they go up on the list and get a "bad seller" tick after their NSTOR, with a quick recap of who claimed it and for what reason.

-If the 'bad seller' disputes the claim made against them (eg, the sale was actually as promised), then both parties have 30 days after the initial claim to absolve the difference somehow. If no agreement can be reached between the parties, the bad seller does go up on the list, but with added information that they dispute this claim.

-A 'bad seller' can resolve the dispute anytime they wish; all we need to take them off the list and remove the mark is a message from both involved parties clearly stating their wish to remove the mark.

Right now this file has a lot of members on it. Its an excel file which I keep on my computer and try to update every page the thread grows. I upload it to a filesharing site and then post the link for others to use. A recent wrench has been thrown into the gears of this project with the revamp of the site.... users can now freely change their username. A potential way around this problem is to use the member numbers instead... but thats going to be a lot of work for me to look up everyone's and change them.

So, what I would absolutely love:

I've heard lots of people who definitely want to see something like this on the site. We need some way to track member transactions and let people know if the user has made transactions on the site before, just to make the busy ski equipment thread a little safer. While the NSTOR file is no sure way of stopping scams, its a little added protection. However, its an absolute bitch keeping it updated. I would LOVE a feature on profiles where you could instantly add 'good seller' or 'good buyer' feedback points, and maybe a little space for a quick recap of how the transaction went. This information could be kept with every individual members profile, which others could see. For example,

I bought a helmet from shipskier57. I go to his profile, where I click on a "leave feedback" button (maybe optional for members to enable in account tools?). On the feedback page, I can leave, good seller, good buyer, bad buyer, bad seller, good trader or bad trader feedback by the click of a button. To click the button, I also need to first enter a short description of what I bought - just a simple "bought a helmet, came as described, would deal with again!" After this, on shipskier57's feedback page, it would have my comment and (current) username. It would also have at the top his NSTOR - I'd like to keep the point system as is, but I'm open to changing it if we come up with something better. The next time shipskier57 wants to sell something, someone might want to know if he's been labeled a good seller before - they go to his feedback page, see my entry, look at his NSTOR and decide for themselves if thats good enough for them to trust him. If they want, they can even message past members to see how he was in dealing with them.

It would also be a cool added feature to have top seller and buyer list, just so we can see who is at the top and all... just some added ideas for this. But adding this to profiles would eliminate the name changing confusion thats imminent to the list and also make the rating a whole lot more accessible - nobody wants to jump through the host's hoops to download the file and open it, and it doesnt work for macs = (. At the very least, I would love to at least move the current file to a HTML page hosted by the site, just so its easily accessible for every member, even the mac users.

Anyways, this is a long email already, and I'm sure you probably have questions of me. Feel free to pass this along to everyone else there at NS that runs the site, and email or message me with any questions you may have. Hope this or something like it gets implemented soon - it would make NS a much better site to sell, buy and trade on. Thanks Doug, and keep up the hard work!

So yeah, I would also love to open this up to you all as well. What would you like to see for member buying/selling/trading tracking? Is this a good idea? Improvements? Too much? Possible flaws?
 
First off, I would like to congradulate myself on reading that, I can claim that as summer reading.

Your completely right about the NSTOR, the name changing must be such a bitch to keep it updated and it gives a way for scammers to have a second chance of doing it again. So hell with the NSTOR, your idea would be great and would make everyone feel safer about buying something. Although say I have something against you, I could just go and write bad feedback and put that your a bad seller which ruins the chances of your selling your item. Which means this feedback could be used as a threat and sacrafice the members sale. If NS were more mature about this kind of stuff it would be a great idea, so hopefully that will happen sometime soon.
 
The possibility of someone so easily leaving bad feedback as well as false good feedback is certainly an issue. However, so far with the NSTOR file, I have yet to hear of this happening, or have found someone cheating the system. Basically, its a trust based system - if you want it to work, you have to believe that most people would use it correctly and not abuse the system. Mods could also have the power to delete feedback in cases of someone obviously being fucked with. Note, most sales between members happen via a thread, and so there will always be a thread to refer to should something like this arise. Obviously, if someone tops the NSTOR list and no thread is there, instant ban.
 
In response to BigWoods:

As You said that people could leave feedback, I think that there maybe could be some sort of filing system or way to PROVE the purchase, and that way the member could delete the feedback if it was untrue. There is also a flaw in that, it being that you could delete bad feedback.

But Overall I think that this is a great idea and would make me feel more comfortable with purchasing items from people on here, especially one's labeled "newb" and what not. If there is anyway you could forward this list to me, that would be swell. I would like to see where I am, and where other people stand, for future reference.
 
I also give myself props for reading that, my bedroom is now spinning.

Secondly, I'd like to dismiss any future posts pointing out flaws in the system you mentioned, as they would be bullshit. I think some people will want to see something like ebay, simply because it has now been mentioned. I would like to direct the attention of those people to the ski equipment forum. Lets take a good long look at what we have now folks, the only way to be sure of a seller is if hes got a hell of a name, or comes up on the first page of the good buyer seller list that you check. What we have now is just sketchy as hell, you may not know the person at all, and you probably arent the only one, how do you know hes not gonna try and take your money? At least with the proposed system, theres something, you no longer have to hope you didn't miss a thread where somebody called out the kid you just sent 300$ to.
 
If I understood it, it sounds like a great idea. so, basically, We can leave a meddage that will appear in the member's profile, saying if they are a good buyer/seller, or otherwise.

Your right, with all the name changes (im guilty for that) its going to be really hard to use the good buyers list.
 
First off, you Rowen are my favorite NS member.

Second, If this was created by the admins it would be a great thing. I just figured with the name changes that if someone questioned my good buying/selling/trading stats i'd say to just check for my old name. But I didn't take into account people changing their name multiple times. If this works i really don't see any flaws in the plan. I'm sure the smart guys running this site could create a section exactly for the needs. I especially think it would be important for the rating system in the profile should only be there for buying/selling, because things would get out of hand if you could just post any random thing about the member
 
hmm, we should still do something with the original NSTO, it seems like a few of us did have some ideas for that, though it is completely dead.
 
That sounds like a great idea, now I don't have to go rummaging through that persons threads and the good sellers/good buys list.
 
Yeah, I'm still of fan of having a NSTO cult for the respected traders and all. Depends on how they incorporate this into the next NS version, if they do.
 
This is a great idea. The good sellers/bad sellers list will become more difficult to find the user with all the pages and the name changes. Like others said it could be abused by the less mature NS population but it sounds a lot better then what is in place right now.
 
wow, incredible idea. this would really be soo good for NS, and we could keep selling/buying to the threads instead of using gearswap like shit which i personally hate..
 
PM him, and I fully agree with this, I'm still scared to buy something off NS with out using ebay.
 
im sure someone might of posted this already

but people could get their friends to give them false positive points, its deffinatly a trust system
 
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