NSTO: An Idea to make this better

RudyGarmisch

RudyGarmisch

Active member
Staff member
Hey guys, I've been frustrated in the past about buyers/sellers/scammers on this site, and I think that our site has reached the amount of members that we need to do something about it. I've given it some thought and this is what I've come up with. Please tell me what you think about this idea, especially mods/admins. I'd be more than willing to do all the work to get this thing running if it will provide some more security and organization here.

The Newschooler Trade Organization (NSTO):

Effectively, this is a cult. NSTO will work to give more organization and trust in members and transactions that happen on the site. While it will still be trust based, it will hopefully reduce the amount of scammers and provide a forum for more trusted members to trade/buy/sell with more confidence. Heres how I see it working:

The NSTO Rating:

This is something like the "good/bad buyer/seller" list that we have going right now (thanks again Nomensteven!), and in fact, I could see us still using the sticky we have now, albiet with a little more order to the chaos. Members that complete transactions can give the members they dealt with Seller or Buyer points. Did someone sell you an item and ship it fast? Give them a point by posting their name and if they sold or bought. Our cult will keep an excel file (updated weekly or more often) of all the good members and publish the list, making it available to all members. It would be great to have this hosted by NS, but we can also just use another site without too much trouble. Members of NS can look up their or anyone else's NSTO score and decide themselves if they want to sell/buy from them. Bad sellers/disputes will also be logged and kept with the list until they are resolved (affirmed by both parties).

The NSTO Cult:

Now, onto the idea I like most. The NSTO cult would be a cult for good buyers and sellers that have proven themselves in the past. Ideally, NSTO members would be some of the most highly trusted members to deal with. Becoming a NSTO member will obviously not be available for all, as you must have a trusted reputation before being allowed in. Once you're in, feel free to mark yourself as a NSTO member in your sales/posts.

Becoming a Member:

Admittance will be based off of your reputation on NS and your buying selling history. It will be up to the moderators of the NSTO ultimately. You can apply for NSTO membership if you have the following:

- 10 or more NSTR points (at least 1 in each buyer/seller category - cant be just a seller or just a buyer)

- No disputes or bad transactions (confusion does happen - if your dispute was resolved, show us the proof)



OR



- Have at least 3 veteran (over 1 year membership and over 200 posts) users message the cult leader and vouch for your validity and honesty.

Once accepted into the NSTO, you must provide and (keep updated) your shipping address, a phone number you can be reached at and a email address you use the most. Other information, such a messenger screenname, etc, would also be nice. Also, all members must have a valid paypal account. Paypal is the fastest and safest way of sending money to people for these kinds of transactions - if you are buying/selling enough to want to be a NSTO member, you should have this.

The Cult Message Board:

Basically, the cult message board would contain a stickied thread of every members information. Members would also be free to post sales/trades/auctions in the cult, making them availible only to NSTO members. And hey, since NSTO members would be pretty much safe to trade with, why not put special deals/discounts in there?

NSTO Member Rules:

I'd have to sit down and make a full list, but basic rules would be as follows:

- If a dispute arises that puts the validity/honesty of a NSTO member, the NSTO member will be notified and put on warning in the cult message board (effectively barring them from all NSTO Cult transactions). If the member does not respond to the dispute and work it out (proven by agreement/statements from both parties) within two weeks (14 days), then the member will be expelled from the NSTO and your privileges will be revoked.

- Your actions on NS will have an effect on your membership. They will impact everything from our decision to admit you to our decision to expel you. If you do something we deem questionable as a NSTO member, you will be warned. Repeat offenses/really bad shit will result in your expulsion.

- Anyone caught misusing the posted NSTO information (like giving it away to solicitors or another website) will result in your immediate expulsion, and your NSTO rating (visible to all users) will be permanently changed from a numerical value to a : (

-The NSTO is a trust based organization. We cannot give you a 100% guarantee that NSTO members will always provide fast and reliable buying and selling. However, we'll do our best to make sure our members are honest and that the member information we provide (NSTO ratings) is accurate.

What it comes down to is that even working optimally, the NSTO would still not be 100% scammer proof. People could work the system. But they'll have to try a lot harder to do so. We don't offer insurance, no guarantee's. But we'll try our best to make buying/selling on NS safer by providing a NSTO rating for all members who buy/sell and having NSTO members that are more trusted and honest than your new-to-the-site-less-than-10-posts-seller. With everyones approval (NS users, mods and admins), I'd like to see this cult get up and running.

So... whatcha think? Any feedback is welcome, I want to see what you guys have to say!
 
great idea, i really appreciate you volunteering yourself to do all the work. like you said though, still not scammer-proof. perfect example is Yeti. super high up to be a mod, well trusted and all that, then just scams and disappears.

another problem is ee with this idea is that it may be very hard for new members to become a trusted seler and even get on the list in the first place. many people may be skeptical and turn down a seller because they are not a NSTO member or may not have any previous sales on here. how do they get those forst sales? someone just has to take a chance
 
sounds like a good idea but it sounds like its too much work to get into. I know i'm on the good buyer/seller list multiple times, but i havent bought and sold 10 times for each, and i'm not gonna go way out of my way to get a bunch of people to message the leader of some cult to get me in, i think you should ease up on that a little.
 
True, people might become a little more reluctant to buy from you if you arent a NSTO member. However, I dont think many people will be that put off by that. I think its better that we have some members that are marked as more highly trusted sellers/buyers. I mean, looking through the good buyer/seller list, only one person has said that they got refused for a sale because they weren't on the list.
 
If we ease it up, it makes it easier for scammers to become NSTO rated. Just get three people you know/have sold to to say you're okay. But yeah, this isnt a solid set in stone guide. All rules could be adjusted to everyones agreement.
 
I think this is an awesome idea, and after a little getting use too, this could actually be really affective; as long as alot of people participate.
 
well you can always build up your repution by buying stuff and establishing a name for yourself. i think it's kinda sketch when people with 50 post who joined last month are selling new shit, though i don't mind people selling used stuff.
 
I'm down, sounds like an upgrade on what we have now, I've never had any problems with people on NS, but I don't deal with those sketchy 20 posts types. This would be a way to help people have a better transaction experience on here, and I'm all for good business moves.
 
Ok, so I went ahead, went through the buyer/seller list and compiled everything as best I could into an excel file. This is kinda a primitive NSTO Rating thingy. I took a screen of what I have:

nstoratingsyq0.jpg

 
awesome idea, but ease up on the membership requirements. ive sold to over 10 people but im only in the good seller list once. maybe we can prove succesful sales that the buyer didnt comment about or somethiing through showing a leader our PM's. often people will PM and say thanks but then they dont put anything in the good seller list.
 
I think we can get feedback to increase if sellers and buyers just get in the habit of making sure they comment more often when a transaction is made. And even if you dont have 10 sells, you can always just get a few experienced NS'ers to vouch for you. NSTO membership would really only be for maybe 100 people or so, made for the people who really use the site for buying/selling a lot.
 
I don't understand why you would even need a membership, if there was just an organized feedback section on individual users I think that would be enough.
 
I agree. sounds pretty good. It sounds like a very large project, though. Either way, I think it is a good idea
 
Ok, so Newschooler Trade

Organization officially started today. We're going to lie low a bit until we have some leaders, write out some rules, get some stuff organized. Expect a more official announcement in the next few days.

 
yea you can always start out buying stuff. and i totally agree that its sketch when a newb starts selling stuff for a good price, there is always some unknowns that just have to take a chance

thanks a lot rekker for doing this, member of the month in march maybe? lol
 
I have been on NS for about a year now, and don’t post often but read every day. I don’t see myself hitting that 200 post anytime soon just so I can become a seller. I like the idea, and I have actually just made my first purchase on NS the other day; but I love the fact that there are so many sales going on. And that most the people I see are trying to make a sale while helping another NS out. The idea of rating someone and giving positive feedback is a better idea then the full "NSTO" thing, that way you keep the same quantity of equipment flowing between people.
 
i been on NSers for about 4 months now, ive sold 3 things, bought 3 and im not on the good/bad seller/buyer forum, im sure people would vouch for me tho, also couldnt people create aliases and say they are legit?
 
A possibility that would require a lot less work for your seller rating system would be to use heatware.com, it is created for this exact purpose-

From the FAQ:

"What is HeatWare?

"HeatWare" ( www.heatware.com ) is a private traders' evaluation and reference site used by members of various BBSs (Bulletin Boards' Traders Forums) which allows one to post evaluations of his or her private trades or deals with another. In order to submit or receive an evaluation, you must register for an account on HeatWare."

On some other forums I read, the buyers/sellers use this to determine credibility.

You could still create the NSTO to show people with credibility, but as far as points and ratings, I think this could save you a lot of time.
 
Which is why a simple rating system would be plenty - people would be far more likely to stick to a name after they receive 1 or 2 positive feedback. I suppose it could go the other way too though, start up a new name if you get a negative rating, but thats the same with any site.

I think this whole NSTO thing sound a little too much like this "elite" group. I think the number by your name (just like ebay) would speak plenty to how legit you are. The higher number you have, the more sales you've completed successfully. I really don't see the point of the NSTO group.
 
Hmm, I would say to make it like ebay, where there needs to be a confirmed transfer of good between two people in order to leave feedback, but even with aliases, I suppose that's possible. My only suggestion would be to look at who is leaving feedback on the people, and how much feedback they themselves have. You're right though, ultimately there is no way around that, that I know of. Even on ebay if one is desperate enough, they could make 2 accounts and fake buying something to leave feedback on themselves. Doing that here though sounds a little easier.
 
Well, thats why the requirements for NSTO membership will be either lots of good buy/sell activity on NS OR votes of confidence from veteran members (NS'ers that have been around for over a year - I doubt many people have three aliases they've saved for a year just in case this happened).

However, yes, the system wont be foolproof. Its still entirely trust based. Hopefully, our members would be a little more trustworthy than your average user.

NSTO would also keep all the good buyer/seller information for EVERYONE on the site in a master document called the NSTOR (Newschooler Trade Organization Rating) file. We'll compile all the user-given feedback that's been posted in the good buyer/seller list and publish it for everyone in a easy to use excel file. We'll do this for everyone, make it available to all. Yes, people could make aliases on this to give themselves credit, but thats the system we have now. We hope to at least organize the good buyer/seller list a bit better, and hopefully give members who are honest and trustworthy a little gold star that shows they're good people.

 
Yeah, IP's arent going to do much to stop people from cheating the system if they really want to. I just figure that with a more organized system, it'll make scammers have to work a bit harder to screw people over. And a scammer would have to do a lot of work to become a NSTO member, something that would dissuade most people and keep our members scammer-free.
 
https://www.newschoolers.com/web/forums/readthread/thread_id/257307/

your idea is awesome, but if people dont want to put that much work into it what i said in that thread ^ is really easy to do and works really well. all you need is a new forum called the feedback forum, everyone who buys and sells can make a thread in their name and when someone wants to see if they're legit they just use the search bar and type in the seller or buyer's name and they can see comments from people who have delt with them. its simple and easy to start up and to use.
 
I like that idea, I saw that in the buyer/seller thread. However, NS has a lot of few-posting, one-time sellers. Looking at the NSTOR file, lots of people (like 80%) only have like 1 or two things from feedback. Just organizing things better will help for sure, but thats definitely a good idea for the next version of the site.

And that makes me bring up another thing. NSTO will also work to increase the amount of feedback people give. Overall, we need more of it, and the more we get, the better NSTOR we can give you all. So, start right now. If you buy, ask the seller to make sure to mark how good of a buyer you were and make sure to say they were a great seller. If you sell some skis, make sure to give the buyer some credit, and remind the buyer to give you some back too. Feedback levels need to be increased on this site, and its up to YOU (Yes, you, all buyers and sellers) to start doing more.

Remember feedback = better NSTOR file = more info for you.
 
Sounds like a good idea. I've only made one transaction on newschoolers because I was skeptical of everything. With this in place it will probably help but it sounds pretty hard to get it in. And I need to make a paypall too.
 
I love the idea the only problem is for kids like me that are on here all the time but dont really post that much, and havent bought that many things either. Like the deals on here are sick but i just dont have the cash for the 10 purchases to get in. Also if you dont have the ten transactions once the system goes up arent you sort of screwed in a sence because people will tend to only deal with the trusted members of the NSTO at that point? I think its good that your trying to weed out scammers im just sayin lower the standards a bit
 
thats an amazing idea every fucking time ive tried to sell somthing which is 3x so far ive got scammed its pissing me off and im starting to loose my trust in buying off here we need to do somthing about it
 
Again, NSTO memberships will be reserved for only dedicated and trusted sellers. We're seriously not going over 50 members at one time. Note that you can also have people vouch for your authenticity instead of having lots of sells/buys and no bad deals.

I realize that the majority of selling/buying on NS is done by members with low post counts or who have recently joined. Everyones got to start somewhere. Remember though, even if you just joined, nobody is stopping you from selling your stuff. Do so, make sure people give you feedback in the good buyer/seller thread (and give them feedback to, spread the love!) and you'll start improving your NSTOR (Newschooler Trade Organization Rating). A NSTOR of 0 doesnt mean you're untrustworthy - all it means is that you haven't had any feedback, positive or negative.

I dont think that having this will cause people to back out of selling to NS members. We're not telling anyone that people are trustworthy or that others are not. We just try to publish community feedback as accurately as we can and make it available to all. What people will chose to do with it is their own deal, but its evident that NS needs something better right now. People need to know if the person they are buying from has a history of scamming or a history of amazingly great feedback.
 
what Rekker says is true, it probably won't stop people if you have a good deal, though people are a little more sketched out about new people selling stuff, though that's a risk many are willing to take for a good deal. the easiest way to build your NSTOR is buying stuff off established people. it's easier than you think too, look here to buy small things like gloves and ski vids and save yourself some $green$. also, it's a good way to get quality outerwear for cheap by getting it slightly used, but still in good condition. no seller is going to reject you cause you're new, they'll just make you pay before they ship anything, which is pretty standard.
 
^^ oh yea skis, giro tune ups and my gogles i tried to sell its riddiculous i did everything good and i cant get on the list its people need to stop trying to scam me
 
its hard for me to show any support/disinclination since i haven't been scammed. but maybe something up this alley would work
 
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